Jen Ripple is on the podcast today to tell us some of the history of women in fly fishing.  Jen is the editor of Dun Magazine, the largest woman’s magazine on the planet.  Jen talks about the foundation of woman in fly fishing and where she’s going with Dun Magazine after Covid.

We get into the topic of woman and swimsuits and the affect on social media.  Find out why woman is the fastest growing demographic in fly fishing.


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Show Notes with Jen Ripple

02:50 – Fly Fishers International Magazine had a recent article written by Jen on the history of woman in fly fishing.

07:45 – Matt Smythe was on the Wet Fly Swing Podcast in Episode 137.  Matt talked about AFFTA and Covid.

10:10 – The Treatise of Fishing with an Angle Attributed to Dame Juliana Berners.  

15:00 – Jerry French the podcast in episode 139 to tell the intruder story and the history of NW spey fishing.

18:45 – Favorite Flies and Their Histories by Mary Orvis Marbury took over her dads fly business back in the day and had a huge influence on fly tying.

19:15 – Joan Wulff was on the podcast in episode 100.  Joan was the first female casting champion.

21:55 – The Dun Magazine is the only woman’s fly fishing magazine.

24:15 – I talked about Darcizzle who April interviewed here on Anchored.

27:15 – Dennis Isbister was on the podcast here to cover Pyramid Lake from Wild Fish Wild Places.

29:00 – Heather Hodson and United Woman on the Fly is a huge group for connecting woman around the country.

29:35 – The Orvis 50 50 On the Water Movement is a great plan to get more woman into fly fishing. 

32:30 – The Rip and hoppers road trip is Jen and Heather Hodson’s trip to connect woman on a DIY journey.

33:55 – Here’s the episode with the Ray Montoya on fly fishing the Middle East and Oman. 

37:15 – The Texas woman fly fishers and Jen’s crew will be able to hook you up if you are on a DIY adventure.

40:55 –  maxine mccormick plus fly girl global and March eyed brown dun on instagram where they tie all over the world.


You can find Jen at Dun Magazine here.


Resources Noted in the Show

Favorite Flies and Their Histories by Mary Orvis Marbury

favorite flies and their histories

the metaphysics of fly fishing


Dennis Isbister from Wild Fish Wild Places


Read the Full Transcript with Jen Ripple:

Click here:  Jen Ripple Podcast Transcript to get the Full PDF Transcriptf

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(Apologies for any transcription errors – this was generated automatically by

Jen 0:00
Yep, road trips are always DIY and you know red fish is a really great way to do DIY because you can do it on the down low you can really you know if you want to spend a day and fish with a guide you should if you want to save your money into that you should because getting out especially if you’re an efficient Louisiana not so much Florida but Louisiana I mean you want to take a boat right that’s a substantial boat right way back into those marshes to get your big bowls.

Dave S 0:25
That was Jen ripple sharing some tips for your next DIY red fish fly fishing trip. This is the wet fly swing fly fishing show. Welcome to the wet fly swing fly fishing show where you discover tips, tricks and tools from the leading names in fly fishing. today. We’ll help you on your fly fishing journey with classic stories covering steelhead fishing, fly tying and much more. How’s it going everyone? Thanks for stopping by the fly fishing show. Jen ripples back on podcast to provide a killer history lesson on some of the women who are Influenced by fishing over the last 400 years, we find out who was the first person to match the hatch, how Mary Orvis changed fly distribution and some of the more recent topics for women in fly fishing, including the bikini effect on social media. Before we get started, I want to take a moment to thank our sponsors. The Fly fishing in general has another jam packed summer edition that’s out right now. And you can head over to ftg angler calm right now to support the great stuff Craig and the crew has gone over there and grab some great reads for your next fly fishing trip. Got fishing calm is your trusted source of information with access to the world’s best fishing trips. You’ll never pay a dime extra for the trip you book and in many cases less than advertised. Find out where got fishing could take you by heading over to got today. That’s g ot or reach them by phone at 208-630-3373. Lots of interesting And fun stuff today. So without further ado, Jen ripple from done magazine calm. How’s it going, Jen?

Jen 2:08
Hey, it’s going well. Thanks for having me.

Dave S 2:10
Yeah, thanks for coming back on here where I was just looking back at it was Episode 60, which I think we’re close to Episode 140. Now. So it’s been, it’s been quite a while since we had young and I wanted to dig in. I read an article recently. And maybe you can remind me what magazine it was in. But it was a great little article on kind of the history of women and going back hundreds of years. So I want to dig into that but maybe just give us a little update on what’s been going on since we last talked.


Jen 2:36
Yeah, sure. I think that article was in the fly fishers international magazine. Right. Five Fisher. Yeah. So anyways, um, but yeah, what’s been going on? Well, currently, we are growing our online presence because of everything. COVID right. We just closed down so we’ve been growing our online audience has been really good for us actually, because we started out as an digital magazine, and then more To print and so upping our online game has been no problem because that’s the platform we were used to using anyways and our audiences badly online. Yeah, it’s much, much bigger. So that’s been good. You know, everything is kind of slowed down. I’ve actually kind of maybe I shouldn’t be saying this, but enjoyed taking a step back not traveling as much not speaking as much. You know, I rarely would spend a whole week in my own bed and I’ve been able to do that. So life has been good. Mm hmm.

Dave S 3:29
That that is kind of the weird thing about it is that some people I mean, obviously, some people have been hit hard, but I mean, a lot of people myself included, it hasn’t really been that, you know, much of In fact, I feel the same way. It seems like yeah, I mean, it’s almost like less people out there. And the weird thing is you think of that thing over China right? When it first happened in China, the air quality in China was right because nobody was driving was ever been so I mean, it’s this weird world, right? We know it’s all going to change. I mean, it’s already changed, but it will never be like it was before but Yeah, what’s your takeaway from all this other than, you know, just the general stuff?

Jen 4:05
Um, you know, as far as like the fly fishing industry or as far as

Dave S 4:09
just I mean, I guess either way, I was kind of thinking more in general. But yeah, I mean, fly fishing. Yeah.

Jen 4:15
Oh gosh, well, in general, I’m not sure what to think there’s so much out there who knows what the reality is behind it. All I know is that as a magazine as a person, I tend to err on the side of being conservative so and not politically standing but conservative in I would rather protect myself and others, if there’s no threat, as opposed to saying, oh, what the heck, nothing is going on. So I’m just going to go do everything. So I’m erring on the side of being conservative in that, you know, and I’m not I’m not an epidemiologist. I’m not an infectious disease doctor. So I don’t know what’s going on out there. All I can do is what I can do in my own little world here. And as far as the fly fishing industry, you know, I mean, we’ve obviously done a lot, heard a lot from a lot of the people in the industry and have close ties with a lot of people that work in fly fishing. And you know, we started a done guide giveaway, give back that was kind of like highlighting a guide, they went on to our platform signed up and did nothing, but just fill out a form and give us their Venmo and their PayPal, and then we’ve been featuring them once a day, a new guide every day so that people can just, you know, if they feel like, like, done gets nothing from it, you know, we just want to say hey, here’s a guide, who’s had a hard time to this, they’ve lost all of their income if you feel like giving them $1 years or Venmo You know, that’s just how it is. Yeah. And so we’ve been doing that, you know, as a way to give back because obviously as a small magazine whose distribution is now like non existent at the moment. We can’t do a lot monetarily for them. I wish I had millions of dollars. I could just you know, support them all. But this is just a way that we can give back and help in the way that we can you know, and so I don’t think that our fly fishing industry will look the same as it did before, obviously, I think that you’ll see a lot of shops that aren’t going to be able to open back up and guides who have had to go do something else. And so, you know, it’s definitely changed the landscape and I don’t take anything for granted the fact that we have the ability to still have an online platform even if we can’t print a magazine at the moment and you know, the reality is, is I don’t know going forward you know, we don’t have any ad sales because all the manufacturers are currently on hold as well. So you know, whether we print a magazine in the summer or we don’t have the ability to print magazine in the summer, I don’t know. Um, you know, but it the way that I look at it as and I probably shouldn’t say this as the owner of this magazine, but I’m an entrepreneur enough to know that, you know, if the magazine does not print going forward, then that’s just a small price to pay. You know, as a magazine, we are I feel like if we You know, the mag is if all the magazines went away, that fly fishing would still go on. But if all of our guides went away, fly fishing would never ever, ever be the same. And so, you know, I’m just trying to put things in perspective but as business owner and as an angler, you know, yeah, there are bigger things out there right now. So I love that I love

Dave S 7:19
that yeah, that’s I just listened to somebody I think on another podcast talking about just that the guides in the shops and how there’s just no you know, there’s nothing else like a fly shop right? There’s nothing out there. There’s nothing online there’s nothing even close to going into your local fly shop and talking to a guide and, you know, so I agree I had Matt Smith on as well. I’ll put a link in the show notes to the episode from after he talked about I asked him what was the best thing we could do right now with this thing? You know, with COVID he said, he said, you know, just reach out to your guides and go to your shops and support them and you know, if you have to buy it if you can buy a trip in advance, you know what I mean? All that good stuff. So I love that.

Jen 7:56
Yeah, absolutely.

Dave S 7:59
Go Good. Well, let’s jump into it. We got another topic Do you ever hear because I mean, vivid fly fishing is always on my mind. Because, you know, I’ve talked about it before. But you know, one of the big things is I’ve got a couple of little girls that are, you know, growing up fast, and I want them to have all the opportunities and I want them to know about the history. So can you talk about this article? Or I don’t know, if you want to just break down the article just talk about somewhere on the history and what it was all about with women if I fish.

Jen 8:24
Yeah, for sure. Well, you know, I speak on the history of women in fly fishing at all different events. And the reason that I started doing this was because when I got into fly fishing in the spend like 14 years now or so, but when I got into it, I didn’t know any other women on the, on the water. I didn’t see them. I heard that there was another woman in my local fly shop in my area, but I didn’t know her. I never saw her. And so I thought, well, women must be new to fly fishing. That’s that was what I thought when I started and so for my own sanity, I started doing a little bit of research to see if there were women out there and how long women had been in the sport. And so I, you know, I looked back and I saw Oh, April bulky, she must obviously be the first woman that’s done anything in fly fishing, right. But then as I started to do more research, I realized, wait a second, women have a very strong foundation, they have a strong history. And that gave me the foundation for myself. And this is what I tell the others to be to know that you beat along in the sport, you belong in a flower shop and you belong in the river, right? So once you understand that foundation, then it’s easy to feel empowered on the water as a woman, even though at this point in time, we might be a minority. And so when I started doing this, this history lesson I found, I mean, so so many women, our sport would not be what it is today, if it weren’t for the contributions that women have made all along the way, like for instance, way back in the 15th century, you know, Dame Juliana burners who wrote the First Book on fly fishing a treatise of fishing with an angle. And this is a really interesting small book. And I have two different editions of it, which when I give my talk, I pass around all these different things so people can actually feel them and see them and smell them. And you know, all that stuff. This book is really fascinating. So Dame Juliana burners was a nun of noble birth. And so she started she was she’s very well known for a book on Hawking. And then she wrote this treatise of fishing with an angle, which is a very small, concise book that tells you everything you need to know like, for instance, how to how to make a hook, how to tie a fly, how to use different types of horse hair dye different types, of course here for different types of water conditions. I mean, we’re talking back in the 15th century, right and so mmt even talks about being conservation minded and not trespassing. I mean, all these different things. But you look at that, and I, you know, originally I thought, Oh, well, she just wrote this book because she was a non issue. So she was bored, right? And so she was of noble birth, so she didn’t have to do a regular job. And so it must have just been something that she really liked. And that’s why she wrote the book. But if you look back in history in that time, you know, as a nun in order for her to do an activity, it had to be sanctioned by the church. And in order for it to be sanctioned by the church. It has there had to be a document that the priest can bless. And that’s the document.

Unknown Speaker 11:26

Jen 11:28
yeah. So interesting, right. And there’s controversy around her as well given that you know, she’s given all credit for for her book on Hawking, but then she’s not given credit. They tried to take credit away from her and say that it wasn’t her that wrote that book. But you know, we already know that she has another successful book before this and she talks about like, taking magnets and baking them in bread and sticking the the bread underneath your skirt so that it will stay warm and the maggots will stay, you know, healthy White River and I’m pretty sure You know, looking back in 15th century, if a man actually wrote it, he wouldn’t give credit to a woman. And I’m pretty sure that there weren’t men who were putting stuff under their skirts at that time. So I’m pretty sure that she wrote that book. So, you know, way back to the 15th century here we have a woman who was out there enjoying our sport and writing about it, right. So, you know, when you see that you think, oh, my goodness, well, the first book written by a woman, obviously, women have always been in this sport. But then we look at you know, we move forward. And you look at like, you know, today we use naturally natural fly patterns, right? So something that will imitate match the hatch, so we say, but back in the day, they didn’t they use the tractor patterns, right? So they would just use like a red, red little piece of thread on a hook and that would like attract the fish’s attention, and then it would like, give a strike and they would catch a fish that way, but, you know, back in the 1850s in Actually America here in Ralston, Pennsylvania. There was There’s a famous little trout area called Lycoming Creek. And there was a woman who lived there, Elizabeth Benjamin, and she spent her days you know, watching all these anglers flock into her little area and fish, and just going, you know, fishing and fishing and fishing, but they all bring like their European flies and everything that they are their flies from where they were, as they traveled, and they try to catch these fashion. And they were very elusive trout in this area. And so I guess she you know, one day she just realized that the tap, the only person that was catching fish was the local tavern owner. So she did what any self respecting angler would do. She saw him heading down to the river and she snuck behind them and then she peered through the reeds to see what he was doing. And she realized that he was like catching fish, catching bugs from on top the water and looking at them and then he would open his box and he Try to pick something out that look the same. So she thought, oh my goodness, right, wow, look at what this guy is doing. So she went down that night, she got her husband and her son and they made like, things that look like butterfly nuts nowadays. And they ran down, you know, went down to the river, where he was standing and they scooped up the bugs. And they scooped up some of the Flies that were on underneath the water and on top of the water, and she went back to her house, and she tied flies that looked like those bugs that she found in the river. So she’s actually credited with being the first person to use a natural pattern. So you know, when you go to match your hat, you can think, ah, guess what, the first woman that the first person that ever did, this was a woman Her name was Elizabeth Benjamin, right? And so it’s things like that. I mean, our history just goes on and on and on and on and on like that. And I don’t know if you want me to just keep talking. Yeah.

Dave S 14:54
Well, no, that’s good. It I was thinking it’s what you said about the sneak I just had Jerry French I kind of a different topic but the Save lied. He tells the intruder story here actually just came out here and man it was funny because he talked about the story of you know that intruder back in the day when they were created. They were hiding it right they were hiding it from everybody. But then people were literally I mean they had a few times people literally stole the fly right off of their rods while it was in their boats while while they’re out fishing. Yeah, I know. It’s like this is like this testing but it kind of reminded me that the sneaking around but no, I mean so so Elizabeth and I know I’ve heard Elizabeth Benjamin the name and then also Mary Orvis. Right. She’s another big name. Wait, can you tell her story a little bit and how she fits in there.

Jen 15:38
So Mary Orvis Marbury was 20 years old when she took over her dad’s fly tying operations at CFO of this company. The end all of us know Orvis nowadays, right. I mean, if you haven’t cast the HPV rod you need to write. I used to think 15 years ago I thought of Orvis as like a dog bed company but they have stepped their game in such a way

Dave S 16:00
Was that your first thought when you first gave it to your new to fly fishing? Did you think or was it you didn’t think fly fishing?

Unknown Speaker 16:06
No, I didn’t think fly fishing. I thought that they were a dog bed company that happened to sell fly rods and probably not very good one, right? That’s awesome. And it’s it’s funny now to think that they’re like the champions of women in fly fishing and they make one of the best rods on the market. Right? So, I mean, I’ve done a 180 my thought from the beginning for sure in an Orvis and a lot of things. But the world has changed in fly fishing over the last 15 years as well. But back in like 1876 I think it was when Mary Orvis was 20 years old. Her dad she took over the fly tying part of her dad’s business and did you know she has two older brothers and it is not the work of her older brothers that made Orvis what it is today. It’s her work that did and and so what she did was when she took over the fly tying operation she would say they would be sending flies you know, let’s say that they’re sending A quill Gordon to someone on the west coast and then they’re sending a quill Gordon to someone on the east coast. And she would get, they would get letters saying, This is not the fly that I ordered. And so I mean, today we don’t think anything about the standardization of flies. But back in the day, people in different parts of the country would call the same fly different names. So what she did was she spent a lot of time I mean, like years and went out and talked to every single person, every single guide every single angler that she could find and said, What do you call this fly? And so then she went back and she made these beautiful color templates. And if you can find one of her original books, they’re worth a lot of money. One of the Mary Arbus, marberry. books that have the different flies, the favorite flies and their histories. That book was published in 1892. Anyways, if you can find if you page through that book You’ll see her beautiful hand drawn pictures of each different slice so that when someone on the East Coast ordered a quill Gordon, they could go in the book and say that’s the fly want and she like solved all the problems of the disparity between flies. And so you know, Now today we open up a book we’re like I want the Royal wolff it is I order it, it’s exactly what we want. But back in the 1800s, they didn’t have that. And so she saw a problem and then she solved it like any great entrepreneur would write and so it is that work, and her work with that huge book and that all that the background and the history and sorting it all out and putting it all together in a fashion that we could all buy the same thing at the same time and know exactly what we’re getting. That made Orvis what it is today.

Dave S 18:48
And that’s so cool. And now so and we could talk obviously a whole episode on or marry I’m sure but I wanted to kind of keep it going. So if we and I think back you know, it’s a bi I’ve tried to get this is part of My whole master plan, right have documented some of the history where I can but you know, john Wolfe was on it was amazing, right? I had her on Episode Episode 100. And it was like a high point for me and everything. But can you plug her so where’s so Joan? Well, obviously she’s a little later but between john Wolfe and Mary, is there any other people we should kind of maybe note there?

Jen 19:20
Oh, well, there are so many. For instance, I mean, even before that Maria Houston son who was Queen Victoria is appointed rod maker. Did you know that back in the 1830s, there was an appointed rod maker and it was a woman. How crazy is that? Right? Go. Sarah Jane McBride is actually if you take the temperature of the water to know when a bug hatch is going to happen. You can attribute that to a woman named Sarah Jane McBride, who’s from New York. And she was a self taught entomologist whose dad was a professional fly tire and prominent angler. And so after school, she decided that she wasn’t going to listen to her parents and that of society. That said that after, after school a woman would go and get married and have a family, she took a year off and studied the waters in her backyard. And so we discovered that the water temperatures affect book hedges. Well, we know that now. But back in the day, we didn’t you know, in fact, she’s so she her work was so important in the 1870s that her writings, which are called metaphysics of fly fishing, and it was published in force in stream magazine, they are considered the first American papers of any consequence on the subject of aquatic insects from an anglers point of view. Oh, isn’t that amazing? Right? Yeah, geez. I mean, I yeah, I mean,

Dave S 20:44
seems like no, does it just keep it sounds like it just keeps going on and on? Like, I mean, what the hell again, like, again, from a guy’s perspective, you sit there and you read all these. It’s almost like the history of right you hear the history from the people who don’t know it, right. It’s by it’s always bias kind of right. Like The absolutely and it’s the same thing here. We’re all these women. So, I mean, if somebody wanted to dig deeper into this, where would you tell somebody if they wanted to really find out more and maybe all the stuff you’re talking about? Because I know we’re gonna leave a lot on the table?

Jen 21:13
Yeah, you know, um, well, I’ve done an exhaustive history. It’s taken me probably 10 years to put it all together. Um, yeah, so I mean it the information is out there if you put in enough time to find it. Yeah. But I’m always happy to talk about the history of women. So

Dave S 21:28
yeah, What about now? What about a book for you or something like that? Have a Did you have any good light?

Jen 21:33
Right? Yeah, no, I haven’t yet. You know, I mean, I’ve been approached about it a couple times. But you know, one magazine is enough to get out.

Dave S 21:41
Yeah, that’s true. I know. Gosh, you’re right. You gotta you gotta hold back in the magazine. I mean, so you are I think you’re probably the largest, UK women’s, you know, focus magazine. Is there anybody out there that’s kind of kind of doing some similar things on what you what you got going.

Jen 21:56
As far as the woman’s fishing magazine. We are the only one in existence, there are a lot of women today. I mean, and we were going to talk a little bit about john Wolfe, but today’s and the female anglers that are out there, like for instance john Wolf, obviously, a picking up a fly rod and casting 162 feet I mean, are you kidding me? Who does that? You know, most does. Um, you know, and so, as we look at john Wolfe, who is obviously such a phenomenal cast or who has studied I mean, in you interviewed or you know, studied the geophysics, of, of fly rod, knows exactly where those sweet spots are, knows exactly how to cast all of that just beautiful, and has been a leader in our sport for as far as women giving us a foundation that we have for a long time. But if you look at Joan, and this is my own opinion, coming from what I’ve studied, if you look at the history, you know, john came up in the world of the madman, right. And so it was advertising and so there are pictures of Joan out there that are very famous of her was pigtails blowing on a fly in short shorts and in a ball gown casting, right. And so, you know, you look at that, and you think, wow, you know, back in the day advertising like that, but we look at the women who are in it today who get flack all the time online for wearing a tank top or for putting stuff on Instagram, when we have a whole culture that’s grown up with a phone in their in their face, right? The only way that they know that they that that our young culture today knows that they’re popular is by how many likes they get on Instagram, right? And so somehow when we look back at our history, Joan, legitimate angle and legitimate cast are the best of the best. That’s somehow overlooked, but we give the women today, so much grief and I just kind of always wonder what’s the difference, right? How are how is that how is Joan? legitimate but the anglers of today are not and I think that’s something we have to all think about. Like before we become a couch warrior and Blast people we see just buy a picture online.

Dave S 24:03
So it’s such a great question. I think you mentioned April, I think April did talk to I’m trying to blink. I’ll put a link to the show notes. But there is a Oh, a person on she is on Instagram. She’s kind of a famous, you know, does fly, but she Yeah, she’s wearing the bikinis and stuff. And I think, you know,

Jen 24:22
let me tell you it star says Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, so when I spoke about that, Oh, good,

Dave S 24:28
good. So I wanted to go down just for a sec, because I listened to that podcast and just, you know, and I, and I didn’t I didn’t follow Darcis or anything. But again, it was just interesting because for me, you know, I guess you know, a guy’s perspective you see that and you think they like oh, yeah, okay, you know, but so but it’s not I mean, what what’s your take on on that dark sizzle and all that stuff?

Jen 24:46
Yeah. So um, so I don’t have any issue and I said this on my podcast with Abraham, we talked about this. I don’t have any issue. If a woman wants to fish in a bikini if they want to fish in a tank top if they want to. fish in the full Orvis guard, right, I don’t care. What I care about is that you’re honest with what you’re doing. And so my, my issue with the dar sizzle podcast was that she was trying to say and her boyfriend was trying to say that they weren’t just photographing her and having her fish in a string bikini to get likes, but then at the same time, they were saying, but if I show a picture of her, but in a string bikini, I get thousands of likes, and that makes me thousands of more dollars. So I mean, let’s just call it like it. Yeah. So I don’t have an issue if you want to do that, but then just say that that’s what you’re doing. Or if you’re fishing in a in a tank top or you’re fishing in a string bikini, you know, that’s fine, but then recognize the fact that you’re gonna get catcalled at that as well and not be mad about it. I mean, it’s gotta be, you know, I mean, let’s just be real with who we are. That’s my thing. I just want people, especially women in today’s day, you should be able to fish without makeup. And look your worst and not get flack for that and you should be able to put on makeup if that’s what you want. And take a beautiful picture and not get flack for that either. Right?

Dave S 26:09
Exactly. Yeah, I mean like you said, I think just being honest is the and you know and online you know this as well as anybody who’s online or just out there in the world that you’re gonna have people that are you know, the negative Nelly or you know, people that are against right to say bad stuff and the trolls all that. So it’s just part of, you know, you’re out there, you’re gonna have some of that so.

Jen 26:30
Yep, yeah, it just it is what it is today’s culture. And so I always say, you know, it’s like my mom used to always tell me, and everybody’s mommy’s telling, you don’t have anything nice to say don’t say anything at all right? And if you don’t like what you know, like sometimes the people who we can get a lot of flack for even taking a picture of a fish out of water, right? I mean, people will just complain about everything nowadays, and I am not advocating poor fish handling skills in any way. But what I’m saying is that if If you have an issue with someone’s picture, don’t blast them out wordly online, maybe send them a nice a nice message saying hey, wow, that was a really nice fish. Did you ever think to maybe photograph your fish in the water? Or did you ever think that maybe you know it there is a better way to do this and I want to advocate for doing it in a better way

Dave S 27:19
is Yeah, I think so many things that my buddy dennis is Victor who’s got the wild fish wild places. The TV show he he was telling me the story about how I think it was on the podcast, we did that he he was up in Alaska and had a fish steelhead, he dropped it right in the end, they filmed it. And it wasn’t a good you know, it wasn’t a good release and and he put in there because he’s real, right? He wants to show you that he’s not perfect. And they’re like, and that’s how he does his his his his TV show but God he got railed for that right people on him big time.

Jen 27:49
Yeah, because obviously you know that if you work in fly fishing, we’re all perfect and we all have never ever held a fish or like right away because fish aren’t slippery in any way. Right? Exactly, you know, and and, and on top of that, we forget, because we’ve been in the sport for so long and we’re immersed in it, we forget that the vast majority of anglers out there are everyday anglers who are doing this for fun, right? So they are out there, they’re excited about their fish. Maybe this is the first fish they ever caught. They have no idea how to hold a fish, they have no idea that proper fish handling skills even exist, the vast majority of people still eat fish and, and I’m good with that. Right? It is legal to catch and keep fish. And I think sometimes we get on our high horse and we forget that not everybody is as educated or has the same beliefs or you know, and so I think just taking a step back, recognizing that all of us started at one time Heck, you know, Heather Hudson of United women on the fly she says she says all the time, you know, we got there are pictures on my Instagram when I was a new angle. I didn’t know how to hold a fish. Yeah, they’re out there. That’s okay. I was brand new, you know, now I know better. You know, when you know better you do better as Oprah says, right.

Dave S 29:11
So far I love it. But good. Well, let’s, let’s take it just, you know, they kind of wrap this up a little bit on the, you know, obviously we just touched the surface on odd weather to fly fishing. But so the 5050 right, the Orvis thing you noted that that was a really cool thing. They started up. I mean, how do you know how we’re doing in the numbers? I mean, are we tracking that? Do we have any idea what the numbers look like?

Jen 29:31
Or if it does track that I don’t know the numbers off the top of my head. So I’m not going to speak on that. But I do know that women are still the largest growing demographic in fishing and in fly fishing. And, and I think that’s because now women see other women online. So we’re talking about social media, this is a good thing. They see that women are out there that they’re having fun that they’re getting together with other women. There are things like the 5050 thing that’s going on. There’s united women on the floor. There’s done magazine, you know, there’s a thing anonymous, the woman supply shop. There’s all these different avenues now that allow women to know that not only do they belong in the sport, but they can see other women doing it. And by seeing other women doing it, they have a platform to be able to say, Ah, this might be something that I might want to try as well. So it’s just a snowball effect, right. As more women get involved, more women are excited about it. Women tend to be they love to fish with their friends, and they love to have these social things. So they bring more women into it. And I think that’s where we’re seeing it. Gotcha.

Dave S 30:31
Gotcha. Cool. Cool. Yeah. And I think it is, I think you’re right I, again, a little short little snippet I, we did a hosted trip for steelhead. And, and it was pretty cool because it was all people from the podcast that Listen, this podcast that came in, we all met up.

Unknown Speaker 30:47

Dave S 30:48
Yeah, it was amazing. And none of us knew each other. Right. It was just like they all listen to the podcast. It was like Hey, who wants to go steelhead fishing? And, and one of the people that was like, who was I guess it was four guys and one One gal right and and she was amazing right? And we were all everybody was amazing but we stayed in this cabin you know this house and it was just this perfect thing and you wouldn’t have known at all whether she was a male or you know maybe like as far as you know, I mean it was the other cool thing was so we’re out there last I think was the last day in the river we’re coming out we’re pulling out the boat and and another lady there she was putting into her boat. And it turns out she was one of the big guides in that area up on the on the Olympic Peninsula.

Jen 31:31
Oh my god, I didn’t know that

Dave S 31:32
I told I didn’t know at the time but they started talking they knew each other from probably from United women on the fly, you know all that stuff. And I just sat there and I was kind of taking the boat. You did all that it was just this cool boat. I was like wow, that is that is awesome. Yeah,

Jen 31:45
yeah. I love it. Is it fly fishing? It has a much different face nowadays as than it did 15 years ago.

Dave S 31:52
Yeah, yeah, totally cool. Okay, well, hey, before we get out here I did want to touch on just kind of, you know what you wanted? We talked about Baby tarp and a little bit on the last episode I just want to check in you know, obviously you cover a lot in the magazine what what do you think is a? Is there a topic or a species or anything home water? Anything you want to touch on that you’ve been kind of excited about lately?

Jen 32:13
Huh? Wow. That’s a loaded question. Yes. So much out there, right. Um, so Heather and I did the ribbon hoppers road red fish roadie, and so we did a lot of red fish trip fishing through Florida and into Louisiana. That was super fun if no one has, you know, if you have a red fish down in the marshes of Louisiana, you absolutely have to my typing area in Mexico, in Tabasco now has an outreach to go into some brand new water that they found where you can catch huge tarping and permit and bonefish. So that’s going to be fun experimenting with this next this next year as soon as things start opening up. And, and you know, I think one of the places that if you have one One place that you could go to that destination. It should be Oman because the fishing with Arabian fly fishers, Claire Carter, out of Oman is just spectacular. So you can catch you know three spot papa. No, you can catch giant ivali yellow permit all these ridiculous fish. It’s not a cheap trip by any means. But if you’re looking for exotic and you’re looking for that once in a lifetime trip, that’s where I would go. So

Dave S 33:29
that’s cool. Yeah, and I love that you say that because we you know, as I, like I said earlier, I’m over you’re probably gonna be at 200 episodes here in the short, you know, future. A lot of these things I’ve covered right and I’m trying to think of who the Oman I had an episode of a person. Okay, Claire Carter. No, no, no, it was with somebody else. It was with a guy and but I get that but we were talking about it was it was Oman, right. We focused on him on and we were talking about it in and he was just explaining he lived over there for 20 years and fishing. Every day, wow, he’s got a Facebook or he’s got a YouTube channel where he shows all the stuff. So yeah, I mean, again, that’s one of those things that’s on my radar. And, you know, there’s no way I can get to all those places. I mean, what how do you how do you do it? Right? You’ve got all these places to get to you know, you can’t probably do it in your whole life. How do you prioritize?

Jen 34:18
I guess, you know, at this point because I, well, now I don’t have to travel at the moment, but before it was just like, okay, whoever calls first gets on the calendar first, right? Because, you know, whatever place I think of first is where I’m going to go. And then you know, obviously as a small May, is, money is always an issue. So, you know, a trip to the Seychelles every year is not possible, because it’s just super expensive, even when you are in a magazine. So, you know, I think for me, I usually go to where the story tells the best woman story. And so what’s going on with women in that industry at that moment, and that area is where I usually go to that’s usually how it dictates if, if you know there’s a giant first time gathering A huge women’s event in Casper, Wyoming. That’s where I’m going. You know? Yeah. Perfect example. Perfect.

Dave S 35:06
Yeah, I just found it into it was Episode 91 Ray Montoya DIY fly fishing in the Middle East it was the Tao the title yeah so he he’s been doing it himself for a while and pretty cool so and then I want to go back to the red fish because I’ve had a couple of red fish you know focused episodes on here. But we haven’t dug away into Can you you know, before we get out here you you guys kind of did the DIY thing, right? Was that with the road trip? Is that kind of how you did it?

Jen 35:32
Yep. Yeah, yep. Our road trips are always DIY and you know redfish is a really great way to do DIY because you can do it on the down low you can really you know, if you want to spend a day and fish with a guide, you should if you want to save your money into that you should because getting out especially if you’re gonna fish in Louisiana, not so much Florida but Louisiana. I mean, you want to take a boat, right? That’s a substantial boat ride way back into those marshes to get your big bowls. But Florida you know around the coast, and everything. I mean, all those, those fish are coming up into the shallows at certain times of the water, I mean, you can see them rooting around in there. So doing it yourself that way is not a bad way. And the way that we do it is, you know, you get a bunch of your friends together and you get an Airbnb, which is super cheap once you split it, you know, five ways. And then you have, you know, you do all your cooking in the, in the Airbnb, and you go out once in a once in a great while, and then you have your money for your guides, right? So, I mean, at the end, it’s always more fun to go with a group of people anyways, then you’re by yourself, you know. So I mean, I’m really big proponent of the DIY, and I’m also very big proponent of when you’re doing those trips on your own to go into your flight, your local fly shop there, meet the people that are there, buy something from them before you ask for all the tips, you know, I mean, that just shows that you’re, you’re there for the right reasons. I mean, even if it’s a couple slides, yeah, you know, support your local.

Dave S 36:56
that’s a that’s a Yeah, and then we’re I’m hopefully getting a trip down to The Texas area I think I’m going to take the family out we’re going to do I think we’re gonna do our first big road trip. Well not the first but the biggest road trip with the girls and everything. If we’re heading down that way did you guys go through Texas at all?

Jen 37:12
Oh yeah, a lot of time in Texas. In fact, Texas has one of the greatest group of women anglers there are they call them the Texas women fly fishers the swiffers they’re amazing. Yeah, amazing. And so when you’re on your way down there you just let me know I’ll hook Yeah. Yeah, and whatever you want to fish. This is gonna be awesome. Yeah,

Dave S 37:30
but I’m gonna show up we’ve got a couple other people we’re hoping to meet up with all the way to I’m gonna kind of do I’m not sure if I’ve got a podcast but I’m going to get the get my girls out there and hopefully that they’re they’re casting pretty decently now, so I’m hoping I’m not sure. So for kids, I’d read fish. Are they out there? Could kids handle a red fish would be would that be a struggle?

Jen 37:50
It would be a struggle.

It’s a struggle for a regular angler. Yeah, really big strong fish. Yeah, you know, and they can be really picky but there are so Many fish that in fish in the sea as they say, you know that when you’re down there in saltwater, even the smallest fish, you know a lady fish is a giant endeavor for a inning, a young young angler and super easy to catch, you know, just off the rocks. They walk right out onto the rocks. cast a little pattern out there and Twitch back. Yep, you know, a little crab pattern or something. It’d be perfect.

Dave S 38:26
So did you guys did you guys have some success out there for redfish?

Jen 38:30
We did. So we actually had a whole bunch of we had we had four stops and we had women flying in and out at all the different stops and some women that went on our whole road trip with us but the women on our trip caught red fish to Florida Heather and I did not catch a red fish. We caught a bunch of other things but we didn’t catch a red fish until we got to Louisiana. And the big joke was we have got to catch a red fish on the red fish roadie.

Dave S 38:54
Oh, wow. Yeah, it’s all so you got so you got what do you remember what fly you got it on?

Jen 39:00
I got it actually on what they call what is a fly that a friend of mine, Chris sighs tide and he calls it the white claw. And it’s like a little crab pattern. Okay, yeah crab. He tied it just for me. Yeah, and you can buy that flop that fly from him. I mean it works like a charm does he’s actually a fly tire from not the real world. Yeah, Chris is not the real world. Great fly tire.

Dave S 39:25
Cool. Cool. Yeah, I’ll put a link out to him as well. What about what about a tip if you could think of a tip that somebody if they were going to read fish anything? You know, come to mind if they’re getting there for you? How’d you get how’d

Jen 39:36
you? Yes. If you if you’re going to go fish for red fish, you need to recognize that it is super windy down there. No matter what the time it is like fishing. And so you’re it’s like you’re on the flats boat, but it’s a kind of a muddy bottom. So you’re only going to see like tails and you’re going to have to really listen to your guides. So if you’re going to go into the marshes, you’re going to want a guide that’s really good and you’re gonna want to know How to double haul because if you don’t have a strong cast in the wind, it’s going to be a challenge. I’m not saying that you can’t do it, I’m just saying that it’s a challenge. So before you go read fishing in a place like the marshes where it’s going to be the vast majority of the time windy, practice up in your casting and listen to your guide because he will say, do you see it over there? You know, 50 feet coming at you coming at you. And you know what, honestly, I was redfish blind to begin with. And I could not see them. I mean, but it takes a little bit of time, you know, after an hour or so of doing this two hours so you can see it but in that first couple hours, your guide is your best friend, whatever he says if he says more left, do more left. Doesn’t matter if you can see him just put it where he’s telling you. Perfect.

Dave S 40:41
Okay, and then on, you know, on the I was just thinking we talked about john Wolfe, just before we get out of here with any new names out there. I know there’s a couple in our area, some there’s, there’s a couple people but anybody we should keep a lookout that are doing some good things out there that you see or you’ve highlighted.

Jen 40:57
Absolutely. So there is Maxine McCormick Mack who is now the grand champion of casting, right? I mean, you want to keep an eye on her. You want to keep an eye on a young girl named Stevie Kim rebel, who has already caught the Grand Slam. And I mean, I think she caught it by the time she was 11 or something like that just crazy good angler. You know, there’s a whole group out there called fly girl global that was just started by one of the girls who wrote an article for us in our magazines, young girl. We call her little D. And you know her if you want to follow her Instagram, it’s March Brown is done. And she just started this thing where she gets online during the pandemic, she gets online and she ties with other young girls and all over the United States and all over the world. Okay. And so it’s been really fun to see her start fly girl global through this whole thing. And I think that’s what that’s what it’s all about. That’s what you’re going to see a lot more of and I think so. For me, those are three young up and coming girls that Joe want to keep an eye out for because they’re going to do great things.

Dave S 42:03
That’s amazing. Yeah, again I keep talking about my girls because it’s obviously my focus but they’re they’re six today they’re turning 68 here it is like a couple weeks and man they’re into flight time right they’re both into flight time now and I’ve been

Unknown Speaker 42:17
Oh my goodness. I know so this was exactly

Jen 42:21
she should jump on I’ll be perfect for her. This is amazing. They’re gonna be

Dave S 42:25
excited and we’re getting ready for the salmon fly hatch so she tied her first salmon fly Juna did and and it was like okay this thing is definitely gonna

Unknown Speaker 42:33
catch a fish. Oh

Jen 42:34
my gosh, I love that Yeah. Oh my gosh, well send us some photos our way so we can put it out

Dave S 42:38
yeah. Yeah, so that when we get back well we’ll send you some pics everything. So okay, Jen. Well, you know again, I could talk to you forever here but I’ll let you kind of respect your time a little bit. Let you get out of here anything else before you know we could? Maybe in the next you know kind of six months or two I know it’s a crazy time anything you want to give a highlight anything coming up?

Jen 42:58
Well, if also things go well we do have a couple events that are going on one in the Smoky Mountains, one in Atlanta. And then we did talk about an East Eastern trip for rip and hopper but I’m not sure that’s going to happen when we are kind of on hold at the moment but you can always check our website and there’s always something going on united women on the fly as well. Always a great place if you’re a woman you have girls you want to get in touch with other people to fish with. That’s a great platform and thank you for raising your daughters in fly that really means a lot you know, when I was growing up you didn’t really think about taking your daughter’s alright fishing so I always appreciate a dad who has the foresight to do that.

Dave S 43:45
That’s cool. Yeah, it was funny because you get I have a guy right so I remember when I first realized Okay, we’re gonna have a kid you know, it’s that thing like okay, I always thought passing down the name and like having a boy right that whole thing. But as soon as my As soon as my first kid was born and she was there, it was like it that was so far not even a thought in my mind, you know what I mean? It’s amazing, right? And I just realized, like, dude, it doesn’t matter whether it’s a boy or a girl, right? This is amazing. So,

Jen 44:13
yeah, yeah, it’s funny. My oldest daughter just turned 30 last week and so I went, I was pregnant with her there was a nurse at the hospital and she said to me, You know, when I was pregnant, you know, having a child is like allowing your heart to walk around on the outside of your body. Oh, I was like, Yeah, yeah, whatever. And it’s been 30 years and it’s true. All every day for those 30 years. A little piece of you is walking around out there no matter where they are, how old they got. Wow. That’s amazing. Yeah, that is

Dave S 44:42
a love that Jen thanks for leaving us with that. That is perfect. So done magazine. Calm is the best place and in the all set I’ll put a link out to that. Just want to thank you for coming on again. Jen. You’re my I think only my second returning guests. Maybe maybe third, but this is a this is pretty awesome. So I’m glad you were able to come back on

Jen 45:00
Thank you so much for having me. I really really appreciate it

Dave S 45:03
Alright see you later bye

Jen 45:04
all right take care bye

Dave S 45:06
So there you go. You want to find all the shows all the links we covered just gonna wet fly swing comm slash 146 it would be truly amazing if you could take a second and check out the new outdoors online marketing podcast. I’m helping small companies grow their online influence and have a focus on fly fishing companies but if you have one or know someone please head over to outdoors slash podcast and it helps show the message Have a listen let me know what you think. Thanks again for stopping by today check out the show. I’m looking forward to catching up soon hope to maybe see you online or on the river.

Unknown Speaker 45:41
Thanks for listening to the wet fly swing fly fishing show. For notes and links from this episode visit wet fly swing COMM And if you found this episode helpful, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes.

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jen ripple

Conclusion with Jen Ripple

We hear about some of the amazing history of women in fly fishing today with stories from Mary Orvis, Joan Wulff, and others who helped to grow fly fishing around the world.

We also dig into social media, woman and bikinis and the challenges of posting online these days.  Find out how to DIY your next redfish trip and what’s next for Jen Ripple.