Dave (2s): We are heading to Alaska this year to chase King Salmon in one of the remaining Alaskan strongholds for Kings. We’re focused on swinging up Chinook on a spay rod. We’ve heard some people on this podcast tell us that it doesn’t get any better than swinging for Kings. And today you’re gonna hear from one of our guides and some tips on optimizing for success. Whether you’re fishing for Kings, steelhead, or any MOUs fish, This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, And what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. Hey, how’s it going? I’m Dave host of the Wet Fly Swing podcast. I’ve been fly fishing since I was a little kid. I grew up around a little fly shop and have created one of the largest fly fishing podcasts in this country. Dave (45s): Floyd Carter passionate guide at Togiak River Lodge and beyond is gonna share some of his experience and expertise on what it was like his first time up at Togiak. We’re gonna actually get into here about this space camp that they started out with the first year, and some really interesting stories behind that. And then we’re gonna find out what two lines and two flies you’re gonna only need for Togiac and how you can get your line out there. Even if you have no room for a dlo. You’re also gonna find out why you don’t have to be a mega hucker to have success on the Togiak this year. Quick reminder, before we get into it, we’ve just launched the giveaway, and if you want a chance to win a trip to Togiak River Lodge Right now, you can go to wet fiw.com/giveaway, enter your name and email, And we will follow up with you with our big announcement. Dave (1m 30s): Next week. We’ll be choosing the winner. Also, if you’re interested in finding out more, we’ve got a little information at the end of this episode. Oklahoma bred, turned into a spay junkie. Here we go. Floyd Carter, you can find him@carterspay.com. How you doing Floyd? Doing Floyd (1m 47s): Well, doing well, Dave. Good to be here. Dave (1m 49s): Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for coming on here. This is, you know, I, I talk to people all the time. I was just at a recent show chatting with some people and randomly ran into somebody who, you know, we were talking and he didn’t know who, you know, that I had the show. And then he realized, he is like, oh man, I listen to all the show all the time. And he said specifically, you know, the space stuff. Like he’s kind of getting into it and, you know, I think he’s got a few struggles, but I think we’re gonna talk about that today. And then also maybe how people can take it to the next level and get in and think about Chinook fishing, which is something we’ve chatted on here before. But before we get into all that today and talk about Togiak and, you know, some of the other areas you’re fishing throughout the year, bring us right back to fishing, fly fishing, you know, had to get into, have you been doing this a while? Floyd (2m 32s): Well, you know, back to your original statement, I sure do understand the struggle. Yeah. I, I’ve fished my entire life. You know, I bought a bass boat before I ever bought a, a vehicle. Oh, wow. And I did some fly fishing in Colorado. That’s where I, I grew up in the high school and college years. But as I moved around about 10 years ago, let’s see, yeah, it was probably about 10 years ago, I took a trip to Seattle with my sweetheart and she had a conference And we were piggybacking that into a vacation. And so I had a few days to wander and I ended up in Emerald Water anglers talking with Dave McCoy. Floyd (3m 18s): And the essence of that conversation was, you know, there’s not a man in your family unless you’re swinging flies for a natural miss fish. Right. And I said, well, open up your books ’cause I’ve just got time on my hands. And so Jason picked me up from our swanky hotel, took me to the sky, comish put me in some leaky waiters. I came out at the end of the day looking like a baby giraffe. And on the flight home, my sweetheart and I were making our three year plan to move to the Pacific Northwest. ’cause I told her I was gonna be a spay guide. Wow. Floyd (3m 59s): So during that three year period in Oklahoma, I kept flying back out. I realized the skillset that was required and the investment, and I ended up getting paired up with Tom Mayhan from, from Swing Water. And he and I hit it off and Tom graciously put me under his wing and just went up and down the northern California, Oregon, southern Oregon coast, and some of those trips and, and just did a full deep dive into spay and, you know, the casting and reading water and rowing and all of the things I had a severe deficit in. Floyd (4m 45s): And we got out here and I had saved up and went full tilt and, you know, did a lot of poor diet, poor sleeping. Yeah. Heavy doses of caffeine, and just kind of tried to make my way into the game. And fortunate was lucky enough to get referred to Derek Boxford from Tom Mayhan for a program on the Togiac that they were starting and talked with Derek, signed up for it, and met Stevie on the Togiac. And he and I, and this wacky bush carpenter built a spa camp just down river from Togiak Lodge. Floyd (5m 35s): And it was a challenge And it was, you know, beautiful. It was, it was all the things that you would expect in building a spa camp in the middle of nowhere. And that’s where I also met Zach and Jordan. And they are, they’re wonderful human beings. Yeah. They’re, and you know, that was, that was my first official paid gig was the Togiak Summer. Dave (6m 5s): Wow. No kidding. And yeah. So that was it. So you jumped right into the, I mean, it’s pretty amazing. Right, right. And was this right into King Chinook fishing? Floyd (6m 14s): Yes. Yeah. That was the first guided fish that I ever got to hand. Wow. Dave (6m 19s): That was So what was, what was that like, Floyd (6m 22s): I have that photo. I have that photo in my mom’s house. That’s how sentimental it was. Dave (6m 27s): This was the first fish that you caught with the first fish your client got into first Floyd (6m 30s): Client fish. Oh, Dave (6m 32s): Wow. What was that like? That first client getting the fish? Floyd (6m 35s): It was, you know, you’re suspended, you know, anybody in the game knows what you put into it and the travel, the expenses, the time and effort and practice. And so the reward was, was everything you can imagine. Dave (6m 54s): Wow, that’s pretty amazing. So you had a, you sound like you had some pretty amazing mentors, or at least one big one along the way. What, what and what was Tom’s, what’s his bag? I’m not totally familiar with Tom. Floyd (7m 5s): Tom. So Tom’s a NorCal guy that’s been just about everywhere. Oh, okay. And he cut his teeth on the Trinity, but at the time that we hooked up, he was doing work for Emerald Waters, and that’s how we got connected. And we just hit it off. I told him what the goal was. He kind laughed at this dude from Oklahoma, who’s a bass fisherman, was now wanting to be a spay guide. You know, and I’ve kind of run into that in the best possible way. So when we landed here, you know, I walked into Portland Fly shop with Jason Osborne and told him, you know, my spiel. Floyd (7m 48s): And in his, you know, skeptical way, he kinda sized me up and has been, you know, nothing but generous and supportive along the way. And eventually was referred to Jack Mitchell with the Evening Hatch. And Oh yeah, Jack and I have, have got a great, great thing going with regards to, he sends me a lot of work and anytime I can get on the water with any of those individuals, it’s always education. Yeah, Dave (8m 21s): Yeah. It is. No, you, you’ve mentioned a few great people and, and I know, I know most of ’em, Dave McCoy, I mean, and Jason, Jack Mitchell, they’re all people that we’ve connected with, actually had on the podcast. And Jack Mitchell was, I wanna say episode number two. I mean, we’re up to, I think you’re gonna be episode 700 and something, but Jack was, you know, when I first got going on this, you know, he kind of stepped up and actually helped me. You know what I mean? So I, I know how cool he is and, and everybody else, but, but that’s awesome. So now you’re, you’re in it, you know, what was it about the spay for you coming from Oklahoma? Because obviously there’s fishing all around the country. What was the, the hook for you? Why did you just, it feels like you all, you went all in on this. Dave (9m 3s): Was there one thing? Floyd (9m 5s): It’s the thing, right? Yeah. It’s, the thing is the practice, the reading, the water, the cast, the tempo, you know, you get totally, I feel like with a brain like mine, there is the ability to find a little bit of peace on the water when you’re, because it does require a certain amount of focus. And there was something appealing about that. It just clicked. And, you know, I’m 12 years sober, I have an addict. Wow. And I have an addict wiring, you know, that is my circuitry. And it just appeals to that because, you know, you get in the zone, you’re covering water, you’re blasting some decent casts. Floyd (9m 53s): Yeah. You’re in it. Right. You’re lulled into that hypnosis and then all hell breaks loose and you’re a kite in a hurricane, and whatever chemical surge is, is occurring. Once that happened, I was done for Dave, I was done for Yeah, you’re in the swung fly take was the chasing the dragon from here on out. Dave (10m 18s): Yeah. That, that’s what I, it’s hard to pinpoint exactly what it is, but it feels like the take is the one, you know, one of the big things, and it’s part of that you never know, you know, the fact that you could be there for some places for, you know, days, weeks, years, maybe without getting a take. And then other places, you know, you might get more, more feedback. But it, but it is that question. Right. You don’t, it’s so challenge. I think you got the challenging part. It’s hard. Do you think when you look at Chinook versus Steelhead, and you do you do steelhead, you do some guiding with steelhead too? Floyd (10m 49s): Absolutely. Yeah. Yep. I’m looking forward to going to the op here in two weeks. Oh, nice. For about 40 days. Yep. Right, Dave (10m 55s): Right, right. So, we’ll, we’ll talk a little about that too, but, but the Chinook versus the steelhead thing, right? There’s a lot of similarities, but the take is different. Right. Maybe talk about that. What’s your take on, on the take, the Chinook take versus the steelhead? Floyd (11m 8s): The take of the take. Yeah. You know, the only thing, you know, rockets versus semi-truck. Yeah, right. You know, that’s kind of the distinction for me. The steelhead, there’s a element or lack of control in that explosiveness. The chinook for me, the weight, the heft of those fish. Right. Just, it feels unstoppable, right. Yeah. And it is just, you know, like if you’re getting towed behind a boat, it’s just, I gotta hang on for dear life. Dave (11m 48s): Right? Yeah. That’s it. They’re just more power Floyd (11m 50s): There. It is. It is a power distinction. The steelhead is obviously, you know, has its acrobatics and you know, its nuances, but, you know, they’re both radical. I mean, you know, catching the right brown trout on a, you know, four or five weight set up is just a sick, you know? Yep. But there is something special about those, you know, lyd up, Chinook up there that, you know, as long as they’ll have me put it this way, as long as they’ll have me, I’ll be Dave (12m 23s): There. You’re going back. Yeah, that’s right. You got, and what do you guys have there? Do you go up there, you said, for a couple months there at Togiak? Floyd (12m 29s): No, it’s a pretty short window. I mean, we go for, I believe it’s about four or five weeks, I think we have four or five rotations come through, and then the boys start to fill up and, you know, but initially it’s the beginning of the season into the middle and, you know, it’s everything that it’s chalked up to me. Yeah. Dave (12m 52s): So if you take it to that, you know, if you go to that first fish, I mean, that was early when you were up there, but describe that a little bit. Do you remember that pretty well? Like the conditions, like the Oh yeah. Take everything. Yeah. What take us there, what, what was that like, what were you, were you, you know, what, what was the Yeah, set the stage. Floyd (13m 8s): Okay. So, you know, we’re there, Stevie and, and Jack and I are, are building this place, and we get it ready and the other guides come in and, you know, on the, the flight in with the, the client, the first round of clients, we have beautiful weather, water conditions, things are dropping. You’re starting to see the shape of the river and some of these runs. And then it decides to rain for about 15 days straight. Oh, wow. And these are, this is this big water, you know, 40, 50,000 cfs. Dave (13m 49s): Oh, wow. So it came way up Floyd (13m 51s): And, you know, you’re, you’re put into varsity casting positions, you know, where you really, you need to be able to get it done and get it out there and, and some can and some can’t. And you do what you can. And then about the, let’s see, I think it was the second rotation thing started to shape up, And we had picked up the crew in the morning, dropped off the other crew, got ’em oriented, And we got out on the water. And Kenny Morris was actually hosting that week. And so Kenny was on the boat with me. Floyd (14m 31s): We went and fished a, a lower run. We’re about 30 minutes into the day we saw some movement. And my guy hooks in and Kenny was there to memorialize it with some great photographs. And it was, you know, the first, it was the first one of the crew. It was the second fish of the season. Oh, wow. You know, this was, these were a little more seasoned anglers. So, you know, that always helps. But yeah, it was just sunny. We had finally dropping into shape finally in positions where it could get done. Dave (15m 11s): God, that must have been a good day, a good night on, on Togiak after that. Floyd (15m 15s): Oh man. I mean, we were, we were ecstatic And it, it slowly but surely ramped up from that point on. Dave (15m 23s): Oh, it did. So it got better. It Floyd (15m 25s): Did. It genuinely, it improved each day. And, you know, we had our board and the guides, we’d meet up every meeting or every night and see who needs what. And, you know, if there were certain runs that were kind of our heavy hitters, then the people who needed one were put in a position to get one first. It didn’t matter who their guide was. And I really, I really liked that format of spreading the, the wealth out. Right. Dave (15m 55s): Spreading the love. That’s good. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay, so that was, and what, that guy that hooked up there, what was, do you remember the fly, the, the line he was using there? Or the Floyd (16m 5s): Tip? We were, let’s see, we had a T 14 and I think a reverse Maroo. Dave (16m 15s): Yeah. What? Black, Floyd (16m 16s): Purple pink. It was, Dave (16m 20s): I’ve heard pink is the only color you need in Alaska. You Floyd (16m 22s): Know, pink can get it done. Let’s just put it that way. But I think I was so wrapped up in getting that fish in the net because I, I missed the first stab. Oh, yeah. And oh, I was in a, I had a pucker moment. Dave (16m 40s): Oh, bet. What, what was the, what was the poundage? What size fish? Floyd (16m 45s): Oh, it was over 20. Dave (16m 47s): Oh it was, wow. So yeah, big fish. Yeah. Is that, is that the size? Is that when you get over 20? Is that pretty much your You got a serious fish? Floyd (16m 54s): Yeah. Over twenties. Real fun. And then when, you know, when you find that those thirties, which there’s plenty of those, that’s something to behold as well. They’re all, they’re all cool, right? There’s no, yeah. Oh yeah. There’s no bad fish. But, you know, I’m still a knuckle dragger. I still want that. I want that big one, you know? Oh, yeah. I mean, I’m not gonna sugar coat. I, I want that. I will fish for less fish, but the fish, you know what I mean? Oh yeah, Dave (17m 24s): Yeah, yeah. Is there a mix? Do you occasionally find small or a lot smaller fish and maybe even jacks? Are you catching some of those Sometimes? Floyd (17m 31s): Yeah. So there’s, there’s plenty of what the boys have coined as super jacks up there, Dave (17m 37s): Which are like 20 inches or something like that. Floyd (17m 39s): They’re like, you know, in that 12 to 15 pound category. Right. That’s, that’s what they call super jacks. And anything upwards of that is considered it an adult. And yeah, it’s a river designed for swinging. Dave (17m 56s): It is. Why, why is that? Why, why is the togiak compared to ’cause you fish and the cool thing is you fish California kinda all around, it sounds like, how is the togiak perfect for swinging? Like, talk about that a little bit. Floyd (18m 8s): It’s just that, you know, tundra effect. Oh. You know, it’s the, you know, the elevation. Not a lot of, I mean, just the easiest waiting you can imagine. Not long swingy runs. Yeah, Dave (18m 21s): Right. Like gravel. Gravel. There’s not a bunch of like wood and big burgers and Floyd (18m 25s): Stuff like that. No, no. If you get hung up on the togiak, you’re not paying attention. Dave (18m 29s): Oh, right. That’s cool. So that’s good. That’s a big thing. ’cause you’re getting down, right? You are touching the bottom occasionally with your Floyd (18m 34s): Tips. Yeah, yeah. And obviously, you know, there are scenarios where you want to be in a high bank situation and you, I mean, you might have zero casting room from behind, but if that’s where the fish are, there are ways to get that done. And, and most are willing to go past their comfort zone to do that. Then not comfort zone as far as safety, but comfort zone is casting ability. And that’s where, you know, that’s where if you’re doing your job as a guide, you give them the confidence and the, you know, ability to execute those casts. And there, there are a couple spots on the togiac that, you know, you’ll be standing on the bank, you’ll have no room for that D loop, but it’s possible, you know, it is possible you could turn that fly over. Dave (19m 23s): Yeah. How do you do that when you’re on the bank? How do you do a spa cast when you’re standing on the bank? Floyd (19m 27s): You just put your platform or your canvas out in front of you, you know, and the arc of that D loop is essentially what you’re designing. So you just start things higher and sooner, you know, and further out, Dave (19m 42s): Further out. Is this where you would use the, like the Perry Poke sort of thing? That Floyd (19m 46s): Exactly, yeah. Or, you know, yeah, there’s a couple different ways to get the same thing accomplished. But you know, it’s usually, I would say angler specific, you know, to what they’re proficient at. And usually, you know, a couple demos that cater to their strength. And, you know, if, especially on the high bank, you don’t have to make a, a hero cast of 80, 90 feet, you know, you’re just trying to get it down into the zone. And with these integrated systems now, it’s not that difficult to bury that fly and get it in the column that you’re trying, that you believe that they’re at. Dave (20m 29s): Right. Are you using, for the line, are you using a similar line that you would use for steelhead? Or what is that line you’re using on Toia? Floyd (20m 36s): Yeah, on toga, pretty much I was, you know, I was doing mostly floating heads. Every now and then I would throw, just depending on the water height, you know, high water situations, I, I’ll throw a, a creeper or a game changer just to, you know, just to sink it down as fast as possible. Dave (20m 57s): Yeah. And so the folding line to describe the creeper, the game changer, what are those, how are those connected? Those are Floyd (21m 2s): Just, you know, integrated heads that are, you know, float, intermediate sync, sync three, sync five, and you know, with a chunk of T 11 or T 14 and a weighted bug, you know? Yeah. Dave (21m 14s): And the advantage of the, the advantage of the, the, well, the dry line is that you got more of your lines easier to cast. Right. It little bit Floyd (21m 21s): Much easier. Yeah, much easier. I, I was just gonna add that that setup I just described isn’t the most pleasant, you know, to swing. But if you get the dynamics of it, you know, moving in the right direction, it’s, it can be effective in the right scenario. So, you know, but yeah, we all wanna be casting, you know, and looking great and throwing our, our floating heads and long leaders and light flies. But that’s not always on the menu. Dave (21m 51s): No, no. Sometimes you gotta get, get down a little bit. Do you talk about the fly? Is that typically what, what’s the range that you’re using up there to stay on Chinook for a little bit on Togiak, Floyd (22m 1s): You know, usually those roughly three inch flies, a lot of maribo weighted unweighted, depending on the circumstance in the run. But, you know, black and sharp truths, pink and purple, pink and orange. As you said, pink, pink, pink is pretty, pretty hard to beat in Alaska when it comes to salmon. But yeah, there’s, there’s not too many. It’s, you know, in, I’m on my fifth year of guiding now, and you know, I, I know our brains have had enough of these late night conversations or early coffee conversations, and it’s best for a knucklehead like me to not complicate it too much. Floyd (22m 51s): And after some time on the water and getting the feedback that you get, it essentially comes down to two line systems and two flies like that. I mean, after all the churching up we like to do, and, you know, all of the, the little tweaks we like to make, it just comes down to two lines and two flies for Dave (23m 16s): Me. Two lines. And what, and what are those, just to clarify? Floyd (23m 19s): No, I mean, it just, it’s just site specific, right? Once you’ve done your homework and you’ve, you’ve gone to the lab and you’ve, you know, put it in use in the field, essentially you’re getting feedback from, you know, two systems, a floating system, an integrated system, a a, a non weighted bug, and, you know, a lightly weighted bug or, or whatever, you know? Yeah. Dave (23m 43s): Yeah. That’s it. Okay. And I’m interested, the space camp is, I think it’s interesting because I think Stevie, you guys kinda started out in the program where you had this camp, and now I think you’ve moved more into Togiac, but talk about that camp. I’m interested to hear like what is, I’m picturing something, but describe the space camp. What, what was it like? You did it for like a couple years or a few years? Floyd (24m 1s): We did it for one year. Oh, Dave (24m 3s): Just one. Okay. So what, so what, so it wasn’t the easy, it wasn’t as easy as going to Togiac then? Floyd (24m 9s): No, no. Now that we do it through the lodge, that is what I call a crush velvet. Right? It is, is Honey Boo Booo lifestyle compared to what we did that first year. Dave (24m 22s): Yeah. Did you guys have to like, because you, what you do is you go from Anchorage, then you take a plane over to the town of Togiak, right? The, the Correct. And then from there, you hop on a jet. Did you guys do the same thing where you hopped on a sled with a bunch of gear and tents and all this stuff and just went up there? Floyd (24m 36s): Exactly. Yeah, we had a shipping container that had all of the stuff, you know, the site that they had originally planned, I believe fell through. So they had to pivot pretty fast. And this is all during Covid, so you have those, those complications as well. And you know, Stevie and Jack and I would get up every day, grab the saw and the scalp blade and, you know, try and inform some sort of platform of the frozen, gnarly Alaska tundra. Dave (25m 12s): Oh, wow. So you were out there in the tundra Yes. Trying to build, like, the platform to put your tents on. Floyd (25m 18s): Yeah. And by platform, we’re not talking about like wood decks or anything, we’re just talking about flat space to throw these canvas tents on and, you know, had a gravel bar that I think I ended up doing. I think I counted because it was a badge of honor, like, I think 36 different loads of 10 buckets of gravel to kind of fill in some of the holes, you know, and walking up those banks and Oh man. And, you know, it’s just, Dave (25m 51s): You made your pay, you made your pay. That, that, that year Floyd (25m 54s): I feel like I made, I made a contribution to the, to the cause and, you know, it was beautiful. We kind of lined the guest tents out on a ridge. And to call it a ridge is, I mean, we’re talking about two, three feet of difference in elevation Dave (26m 13s): Right. From the river. And, and do you had, did you have any issues with, you mentioned the 50,000 CFS what if that flow would’ve come up? Floyd (26m 20s): Well, it did come up And it flooded camp. Dave (26m 24s): Oh, it did. So you, so you had flood camp was flooded? Floyd (26m 27s): Yes. And I, I have pictures of where the guide tent was, and that we were shin deep in water. Oh yeah. And so we had to just make it happen on the fly, and the guests were ready to tap out. And it just so happened that it worked out that the next round of guests were already in Anchorage and they wanted to come. And so we were waiting for the, the fog ceiling to lift so that the pilot could get our guys out and bring us a whole new crew. And in that two and a half hour window, we moved the entire camp to the driest space that we could in that area that we had cleared. Floyd (27m 16s): It was a pit crew moment, it was all hands on deck. Oh, wow. And, you know, it worked out. We made it work, you know. Dave (27m 25s): You did. So you got a full season in there. You guys didn’t have to, you didn’t have to pack up halfway through it and then no. Kind of hang your head and go, Floyd (27m 31s): No, we dug in, we dug in, we were, we were there, we were in it. Dave (27m 35s): Yeah. In retrospect, it seems like those are always the times where when you’re in it, it’s like, oh my God, this is like the end of the world. But then you get out and you have like, the great story. Do you look back on it now as like, more fond memories? Or is it still painful? Floyd (27m 47s): Oh, no, it’s quite painful. Dave (27m 49s): Yeah, it is. Floyd (27m 50s): Yeah. It’s painful in, in a, in a good way. Like you’re describing, you know, like I said, this was my first gig, Dave (27m 58s): Right? Yeah. And this was your first Alaska gig. Like, Floyd (28m 0s): This was my first gig period, Dave. Dave (28m 2s): Oh wow. This is, right. You’re, you’re just in it. So you’re, you’re learning everything. And, Floyd (28m 6s): You know, every morning I would take a moment before I stepped out of the guide tent, and I would just have a little conversation with the universe. And essentially it was a one-way conversation that said, you know, this is what you wanted. So you want to be a spay guide. Okay, here you go. That’s Dave (28m 29s): So good. That’s so good. Because it’s like the ultimate, right? You just described the start, like you wanted to be a spay guide and now you’re in this place where it’s the most extreme, you know, like, it, I can’t imagine anything more extreme than literally you’re camping in Alaska, which can change right quickly, and you guys are just battling, and then you’re in the middle of it, and then you’re deciding, like, and then after the season two, so you get back Now at any point after that season is over, are you sitting there thinking, man, I don’t know if I wanna be a spay guide? Floyd (28m 57s): Nope, you’re Dave (28m 58s): Not. So you’re, you’re all in. Floyd (28m 60s): Nope. That just sealed the deal. Oh wow. For me, I thought to myself, this was what it was with the challenges that it presented and the hours and the, the sweat equity and the stoke was still there. And, and that was my measure, that this is a, a path for me. Dave (29m 21s): Wow. Okay. So that’s the spay camp. And then the next year, do you guys roll into, into Togiak Lodge? Well, Floyd (29m 27s): They did. Stevie had brought in with Chris Childs had brought in some people for the next two years and had kinda worked out what, you know, the program details and logistics would look like. And then last year we did, you know, a full program at the lodge, which was such a different experience, you know, just being dry and having amenities and rolling up and being able to gas your, you know, not having to make fuel runs and trash runs. I mean, everything, all the conveniences of Lodge life. Dave (30m 9s): Who was cooking on the spay camp? Floyd (30m 12s): We had a camp hand who, you know, for all intensive purposes was probably a little green. Didn’t quite understand. I don’t think any of us really had. Dave (30m 25s): Yeah, you didn’t know. Like, you probably even Stevie probably didn’t know what the, what you were getting into Roy probably. Floyd (30m 29s): But no, we, we all pitched in and cooked when we could and when it was required, you know, Alex, and I’m not gonna say Alex’s last name because I will butcher it, but Alex would help him with breakfast, I would help with dinner. We were doing a split shift, so we wanted to stay out of the lodge’s way. This is the first year because they had a full season going full lodge going. So we would fish from 4:00 AM to 11:00 AM have our essentially our big meal at lunch, which was the dinner that they would be serving at the lodge. Floyd (31m 10s): And then we would go back out at 4:00 PM and fish till about nine or 10:00 PM Oh, Dave (31m 16s): Wow. Yeah. So you broke it up. Floyd (31m 18s): Yeah. And that, that split shift was interesting, you know, because there’s always things to be done to prepare for the next round and whether it’s a meal or gear and boat and whatever the camp requires. So yeah, that w that put another factor into it that was part of the beauty of the challenge. Right, right. Dave (31m 43s): We’ve heard many of the stories on this podcast. Togiak River Lodge is one of the great destinations for Swain flies, for Chinook stripping for coho all day, and unwinding in a lodge right on the riverbank of the Togiak River with access to all five salmon species plus rainbows, Dali Vardon and more. Togiak offers a true Alaskan experience picture over 30 miles of river season guides, high quality boats and low fishing pressure. It’s fly fishing Alaska at its best. I’ll be heading up the summer. So reach out to Jordan and the crew to see what dates they have available this year. You can learn more Right now at wet fly swing.com/togiak. That’s togiak. Dave (32m 23s): T-O-G-I-A-K Alaskan fly fishing like you’ve always dreamed about. So you guys, so you guys survived that and then, and then at Togiak, so you’re there now. You were there this last year. It’s 25. So in 24 you were there like a, a full season, Floyd (32m 40s): Correct? Dave (32m 40s): Yeah. Or for the, the Chinook. And then, and then was that pretty? Yeah, like we’re saying just pretty nice. That’s pretty much rollout. You got food ready to go, you kinda get, you’re going, you guys, Floyd (32m 49s): I mean we, we order off a breakfast menu, you know, the gals come out and take our order, you know, the gas tank is right there, the boats are right there, you know, you just round up your folks for the day and you know, we’ve already discussed who’s hitting what beats and, And we are off and running and come back clean up, you know, get outta your waiters, hang them up. It was just luxury. Luxury, right. Dave (33m 18s): Yeah, Floyd (33m 19s): Luxury. Dave (33m 19s): So you, so you get the toga. What, what is the, And we might, we will probably swing back to Togiak, but I’m kinda curious, you mentioned, you know, at the start, some of the different areas, you know, have you fished like steelhead wise, I guess we could take it there, I’m guessing. Or have you fished Chinook, you know, salmon species? Any other areas other than, you know, up there? Floyd (33m 37s): Just only as, as incidental really. Dave (33m 41s): Yeah. Right. So you’ve been more steelhead has been what you’ve done? Floyd (33m 44s): Yeah, when I’m in the lower 48, I’m, I’m usually pursuing steelhead or trout. Dave (33m 49s): Okay. Steelhead or trout. And what are the steelhead, what are some of the areas or, you know, you’re fishing for steelhead kind of on a regular basis? Or are you fished the last few years? Floyd (33m 58s): I’d say probably a couple of the, the lower Columbia basins are tributaries. You know, I, I love the Clta. I fish the Clets backyard here. I’m in Portland, so I fish the clack mess in the Sandy. I’ve been, I do guiding on the Neal when she’s in shape and then I head up to the op for, you know, the Super Bowl of Steelheading as far as what we have. And so that’s pretty much what I would consider my home base waters. Dave (34m 37s): That’s it. So you’re focused mostly on winter steelhead is your focus. Floyd (34m 41s): Yeah. And then, you know, obviously the summer and fall fish on the Clta and the cowls are definitely players. Dave (34m 50s): Yeah. Gotcha. What’s the, and the op, why is that the Super Bowl? What, what is it about, you know, for those that haven’t been up there, what, what, how is it different than the other ones you mentioned? The lower Columbia, the Cowlitz, stuff like that. Floyd (35m 1s): Well, I think it’s the potential for that encounter with the dinosaur, right? I mean, that’s always, it just feels like it’s there. Dave (35m 13s): You mean a better chance to get a big steelhead, a 20 pound or something like that? Floyd (35m 17s): Yeah, the math, the math feels like for once it might be in your favor to get that fish of a lifetime. And I know that’s not everybody’s jam, but you know, I’m, hey, I’m, I’m still green and I still want to go find that fish that makes me question my manhood and just wrecks me. That, that to me is where my pursuit is at. And you know, places like the hoe when you’re standing on the banks of the Hoe river and the conditions are what they are. It just, there’s really no, it is one of my favorite places on this planet that I’ve visited so far. Dave (35m 58s): Hmm. Yeah, the ho and the hose iss a big river. Pretty big, right? Yeah. Decent size. Yeah, like the size. It would be similar to like a, I don’t know, what, what would be the comparison river like, is is that different? A lot different? Floyd (36m 10s): Yeah. Yeah, that’s probably a good comparison. You know, anything probably under 4,000 is optimal. You know, they, they rage up and the Neals the same way. It’s just a, you know, it’s just a kind of a different substrate. There’s something about that gravelly, what Jack Mitchell would call that glacial water. You know, it’s glacier runoff in clay banks that has this unique tint. You know, you got elk crossing the stream, you’ve got the Olympic range behind you, snow caps, and you’ve got every shade of green you could imagine with the ferns and the mosses. Floyd (36m 52s): And it’s just, it’s just land before time stuff. And yeah, it’s a special place to me. But, you know, each trip, anything from the, the Klamath and the Trinity to the Rogue, I mean they all, the Smith is another epic. I mean, they all have their unique characteristics that are appealing. I just, particularly when it comes to winter, I like to go to two places. I like to be on the Alem. I like to be on the, the Hope. And those are, yeah. Dave (37m 22s): Yep, those are, that’s it. Okay, cool. And, and so that’s a little on the steelhead. We, you know, we’re hopefully gonna be at Togiac this year, so are you gonna be there this year? Floyd (37m 32s): Absolutely. Dave (37m 33s): Yeah. Good. So that would be awesome to, you know, you know, kind of get, meet you in person and, and see some of this action on the water. What, what do you tell somebody, you know, and actually as we, as we’re talking, we’re kind of talking in the future here, but we’re, we have a giveaway going and, and somebody’s gonna win a chance to go up on, on this trip, that’s part of the deal here. But what would be for that person, whoever’s gonna win this trip to Togiak, what would you be telling that person? Like Right now, if that person’s listening to get ready for this? Like what would, if they’ve never saved fish for Chinook or maybe even spay, Floyd (38m 6s): I would say prepare. Yeah, I would say practice and, and, and get familiar with those, those heavier setups. Dave (38m 15s): Right. Which is what, what is that? Is that a nine? Floyd (38m 18s): Yeah, it’s a nine, you know, nine and 10 weights, 650 grains plus or minus thereof. And just get used to turning over something that’s got some dumbbell eyes and yeah. Prepare yourself to maximize the opportunity is what I would say, you know, because going up there and getting into a rhythm and then doing a day or two versus having some preparation and, you know, getting the lay of the land and being in your rhythm within two hours is quite a difference. Floyd (38m 59s): So I would say maximize your opportunity by preparing and going to your casting pond or your local water, putting those heavier systems in your hand and get a feel for it and get comfortable and get those reps, get that muscle memory so that you can just soak it in. Right. Dave (39m 17s): Maybe even get a lesson. Right. Floyd (39m 18s): Oh, 100% David. Yeah. Dave (39m 21s): Who would be, where would you go for that on the lesson? Like a spay lesson? I know, do you, where would you point somebody if they’re thinking like, man, I need a lesson, but I don’t know where to start. Floyd (39m 30s): You know, just depending on where you’re located, any of your fly shops, Dave (39m 34s): They’ll probably have something. So like Dave McCoy, Emerald, Jason, Floyd (39m 38s): Yeah. Abs Jason. They will point you in the right direction. And that is an investment that I encourage anybody. And, and look, I have been back almost a year from the to g from the, my first guide gig. And I went back out and paid for another lesson. I mean, I actually, I paid for two scratch that I paid for two. Like the evolution and the instruction and the perspective and the, the verbiage that others use and the technical ability that it all goes hand in hand with your recipe of success and that investment that time is well worth it. So instead of me out there beating my head, making the same mistakes, pushing with my top hand, rushing my forecast, my anchor placement, you know, having an objective lens behind you either videoing or watching like that will increase the learning curve significantly. Floyd (40m 39s): Yeah. And is well worth it and will relate to happy times on the water. It’s just, it’s a no-brainer getting instruction. Dave (40m 48s): Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I think that’s, that’s probably the biggest take home we we have on here is that, you know, that’s, you know, and you obviously you’re spending lots of money on all this other stuff, so you might as well put a little bit of that investment into yourself. Right. Well, Floyd (41m 0s): Yeah. And most instructors, they’re not gonna bend you over a barrel for, for their time because there’s only so much you can absorb. Right. And so it’s gonna be an hour and a half session and you know, they’re gonna give you stuff to work on and you now go work on it and then you, and you come back to it. Dave (41m 21s): Is, is that how it kinda works with the, so that you, you know, you’re typical, maybe take it to your lesson. You, you go out there, you’ve got some experience, but it’s an hour and a half and you get there and it’s a little bit of watching the instructor maybe talk about how that lesson looks. Floyd (41m 34s): Yeah. You know, it’s some demos and you know, the instructor’s gonna feel you out as well, but they’re gonna more than likely have it in their hand and they’re gonna talk you through what they’re doing as they’re doing it. And so then it’s just a cut and paste situation where you’re trying to emulate them along with your specific biomechanics that they watch and, and they, they break it down simply and, you know, it’s, they break it down into bite-sized pieces because there’s so many things happening at once that, that self-diagnosis can make a man or woman dizzy. Floyd (42m 18s): Right, right. Dave (42m 19s): Yeah. That’s where it’s kind of crazy ’cause you don’t know what you’re doing kind of wrong or Right, right. Floyd (42m 24s): Or what you did. Right. Like, you know, how did I just do that? That was the tightest furthest I’ve thrown all day. What did I just do? And so, you know, having that feedback is invaluable. And then, you know, give it some time on your own, work on it, see, you know, what the next hurdle is and then go back to the drawing board, break it down again, and, you know, evolve and you know, if that’s the goal, awesome. That’s how you do it. You, I mean, I am doing nothing but standing on the shoulders of people who have already cut their teeth. Like that is, that is just what I’m trying to do. Dave (43m 4s): That’s the amazing thing about it. Right? Yeah. The cool thing is, is that, you know, we’ve heard some of those stories about some of the people that were there at the start or you know, earlier on and they’ve been on here, but the cool thing about where you’re at is that you kind of got started when you had a lot of that was already, you know, the new lines, right. The stuff. Yeah. And, And we, and, and, and me too. I mean, I benefited from that too. Like I didn’t develop any of that stuff And it was like, okay, the Skagit stuff works. Like it’s, you know what I mean? Like, it’s a different world. Do you think, looking ahead, it feels like, I mean, you know, what else do you have to work on? Do you feel like your spay game, you still got a long ways to go to kinda get up to that upper level? Or how’s that look for you? Floyd (43m 41s): Yeah, I follow some people in the field who are worlds more talented than I am, you know, so, you know, around these parts, you know, Travis Johnson is, you know, a technician and so he mentioned something the other, I don’t know, it was a couple months ago And it, it kind of was a conviction for me to switch my hands, right. To start practicing, you know, with, with a different grip, with, you know, my left hand on top and just being able to do it and get it done from any position. Floyd (44m 26s): And that’s kind of the goal Right now in the short term is to be able to get it done no matter what the, you know, impediment or, or whatever the roadblock is. You know, if my view is, you know, to hike down into a place that maybe only has 12 decent swings or to make a cast from under these trees and get it turned over, if it’s holding that 10 or 12 pound steelhead, would it be worth it? And the answer is always, without a doubt, 100%. Yes. Yep. So get it figured out, right? Yeah, definitely. And challenge yourself and get uncomfortable and look silly and I do plenty of that, so Yeah. Dave (45m 9s): Yeah. Yeah. So that’s it. So the, the left hand or right hand on top, getting proficient where you’re just as good with the left hand as the right hand on top. Yeah, that’s, and I’m, and I’m not there either. That’s the thing. It’s like, I think that’s one of my biggest struggles, right? Is getting to that point where it’s you’re equal. Yeah. Floyd (45m 24s): Right. And that will translate into you providing a better service for the client because whether it’s a, a, you have a left-handed client or you know, somebody who’s wanting to evolve their spay cast, you know, as you improve you can pass that along just as it was passed along to you. So yeah, having those people is sort of my guardrails. You know, Tom’s always trying to push himself. Jason is constantly innovating with line systems and materials and fly colors. And so it’s just a cool evolution to sort of, you know, to full send and, and, and try and challenge yourself and not find that complacency, Dave (46m 13s): Right? Yeah. You have, Floyd (46m 14s): You know, Jack Mitchell? Yeah, Jack, Jack Mitchell is a great example. I, I’d like to see anybody keep up with him first off on the water, Dave (46m 23s): Right? Yeah. He, he, I remember that when we had, so the cooling about Jack is we our first steelhead, you know, kind of group trip. We did host a trip when I first, I can’t remember what year, but it was early when we started the podcast. We fished with Jack and then we took a little hiatus and didn’t do trips for a while, but we did that and I not, I recognized that in Jack right away, like out there he was like, he had all the, everybody set up, but then he was also still guiding and still going strong, like efficient, you know, doing things all day long. Like he’s, he’s always going, right. Floyd (46m 51s): You know, I hate to put this, you know, on recording. Yeah. But he is, Jack Mitchell is an inspiration. If I can have that level of ability and stoke at his age and for the, the time that he’s been doing it, then I will feel like I’m doing my part. But, you know, he’ll, he’ll tell you Right now, you know, that there are things in, whether it’s water or line system or color scheme or just all the variants, right? He will tell you from his own mouth that there are things that to this day that he’s still learning. Floyd (47m 31s): And that’s one of the appeals of this game to me is that you just, you don’t, it just keeps you right sized Dave. Dave (47m 40s): That’s right. Yeah. You’re never gonna master the, the spay or really even just the fly, you know, any evening. Yeah. That’s what keeps it going. Yeah. We had that conversation. It was interesting because yeah, I think that’s the harder it is to get some of these species, the more passionate people probably get about it, you know, like the muskie or the steelhead or it feels like the Chinook fishing can be challenging, but in different ways, right? Because if you’re there in the right time, the fish are there, right? They’re there, but if they’re not there and the conditions change or the river’s 50,000 CCFs, that can be a whole different set of, of challenges, you know what I mean is Absolutely. Is that the biggest thing when you look at Steelhead versus Chinook? Is that the biggest thing where like how do you I feel like Steelheads always like, you know, well, you never know. Dave (48m 22s): Is this the year? Like, are we gonna have an up year down or down year? Are the fish there is, is Chinook the same way? Floyd (48m 29s): Yeah. I would say there’s probably more uncertainty on the steelhead Dave (48m 32s): Side. On the steelhead, yeah. Right. Floyd (48m 33s): Just we’re just with my limited, you know, experience. That’s what I would say, Dave (48m 39s): At least for these areas, probably like the Togiac, some of these areas who, who still have strong runs of Chinook. Right. There’s definitely, we’ve heard the stories about the Kenai places where there, you know, there’s closures and things, but I think that, yeah, it’s a salmon run. They come in, steelhead is definitely, yeah, it’s a little bit different, but, but you’re hitting the op n we’ve had Trevor Kovich on and stuff like that, and he’s really talked about how he feels like there’s a really a negative too negative of a message out there. He feels like there’s still really good runs, you know, coming in there, Floyd (49m 8s): You know, my experience, my, my first full season was last Dave (49m 12s): Year. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Did you guys have some success? Floyd (49m 15s): We had a great time. Yeah, we had a great time. And there were fish to be had on all three systems. We hit the sa duck, the Boca, she and the, the hoe. And you know, given the options, I’ll be on the hoe every day, but that’s not always an option. But no, I feel like the success was there and, you know, all, all indicators from what we think we know says it should be another successful year, you know, that counts and, and whatnot. And those variables are, are pointing in the right direction and I certainly hope so. Yeah. Yeah. I I really do, you know, for selfish reasons entirely. Floyd (49m 59s): Yeah. Dave (49m 59s): Right. Yeah. That’s it. Nice. Well, let’s, we mentioned it before, but let’s take it out here with our kind of our trip giveaway. Shout out. So everybody right now can go to wetly swing.com/giveaway and folks can enter right now to win that. We’re also gonna be looking to sell some spots for people who want to come up here. So if anybody listening now wants to get in on this, they can just send me an email, dave@wetlyswing.com and I’ll let you know what we have on availability. So I’m pretty excited about this because I think it’s this one of those destination, you know, know, I mean there’s these places around, you know, different species, right? That you think about red fish or whatever it is, muskie. And, but I feel like this is one of those destination species and spots, you know, that you, you kinda have to go to, right? Dave (50m 40s): You have to do Alaska before you die. Is, is that, what is it about the Alaska thing versus anything else you’ve done that, that like, what is Alaska, how is it, why is it separated from the rest? Floyd (50m 50s): Well, because Alaska has so got ’em, right? Right. That, I mean that, and with Alaska, you just, you, you are reminded of your place in the pecking order of the natural world and the fishery, the amenities are all that they’re built up to be. So the hype is real. And to say, I don’t wanna put anglers into classes, I don’t really like doing that. But I have seen firsthand people who are taking the plastic off the cork Oh wow. And are willing to, you know, just get uncomfortable and learn something new. Floyd (51m 35s): And those people find fish in Alaska. And so you don’t have to be a mega hucker, you don’t have to be all of those things that we build up in our mind that usually don’t come to fruition. You can get it done, you can get it done in Alaska. Dave (51m 56s): So somebody listening Right now, even if they have never picked up a spay rod, have never maybe even, you know, whatever, you know, they could go up to Alaska and have a chance or maybe go on this trip for Chinook and have a chance at Chinook. That’s what you’re saying. Floyd (52m 10s): You know, you got your line in the water, you got a chance, Dave, Dave (52m 13s): You got a chance. Right. Floyd (52m 15s): And you know, I think that with the staff in the program, the Epic and the boys have built up there, you are gonna get the type of instruction that will give you the best chance of success. That’s my biased view of it. Dave (52m 31s): Right. Well Stevie, I mean he’s obviously a big name. I think Stevie, he’s been on the podcast a couple times and he’s been on in the bucket with Brian and then, and I’ve had him on here, but yeah, it feels like he’s got a really cool program. Do you know much about that? Have you talked to Stevie about that thing he has going around with with Epic? Floyd (52m 48s): You know, we, we stay kind of focused mostly on what we’re doing on the AK at the time, you know? Yeah, you Dave (52m 56s): Do. So that’s your Yeah, you’re like there for that period. And it’s like we have one focus and that’s to get people into Chinook and have a good time. Floyd (53m 3s): And I should probably be having those conversations with Stevie about his other programs, but I’m too busy making fun of him. Right. So, you know, he quite possibly could be the funniest man I’ve ever Oh, is Dave (53m 15s): He ever Floyd (53m 16s): Met in Per, oh my gosh. He, his delivery is, is gold. Dave (53m 21s): What’s his delivery like? How, how would you describe it? Like what is the comic? Floyd (53m 25s): He’s just a dry Canadian that is just gonna cut you to ribbons and you’re not even gonna realize it till you see your arm on the ground. That’s Dave (53m 34s): It. Love that. That’s Floyd (53m 36s): It. But he is one fishy dude and technically he is, you know, as sound as they come and you know, just spending time dissecting water and brainstorming with Stevie, you know, that’s good stuff. You know, that’s, it’s good stuff. Dave (53m 55s): So yeah, that’s it. Okay, cool. So, so, well that’s pretty much it. I’ve got a couple random ones here and then we will, we’ll take it outta here. First, let’s just start with this. I always like to get a couple tips. So, so you’re on the water, we’re sitting there, we’ve got all of our gear, we’ve got the, and and what length is the, the right length for the, the, you know, eight or nine or nine or 10 weight? Floyd (54m 15s): I like the 14 ish. Yeah, Dave (54m 18s): 14 ish. Yeah. Yeah, so that’s right. So a little bit longer in that way. It gives you a little more control. Is that the idea there on Floyd (54m 23s): Yeah. And, and pick up those heavier, make it easier to have the leverage to pick up those heavier systems. Dave (54m 29s): Yeah. Okay. So you got that. And then, and then do you have a rod manufacturer or do you kind of use a little bit of everything? Floyd (54m 35s): I’ve got my nine weight. Scott. Dave (54m 36s): Yeah, Scott, again, that’s where you forget about this. There’s so many rods out there and they’re all good, right? They’re all great, but, you know, but Scott’s in the game. Everybody’s in the game. Floyd (54m 44s): Yeah. And, you know, go to your local fly shop and put ’em in your hand and play around. I mean, they want these things off the shelves and, and go find something that kind of, you know, slots the peg for you, right? Dave (54m 59s): Is that what the Portland fly shop, if you were to walk into Jason’s shop, which is on the, the west side of Portland, just off of, you know, 4 0 5, it’s right, right downtown, you know? Yeah, yeah. Is it, what’s it like when you go in there? Does Jason have just a bunch of spay? Is it a mix? What’s his shop like? Floyd (55m 14s): Yeah, he’s, I mean, he’s a flash up and, and I’ve seen this firsthand. I’ve seen people walk in off the streets who are just spin fishermen and you know, have some questions and Jason and his guys there do not hold back. There’s not any of that sort of elitist us versus them gear versus fly and whatever your pursuit is, they are going to do everything they can in their extensive bag of experience to put you in a successful position. That’s kind of what I love about those guys over at Portland Fly Shop. Floyd (55m 56s): They do not discriminate. They are going to help you out with what you have. And if you’re looking to up your game, they are going to, they’re gonna facilitate that in every which way they can. That’s Dave (56m 9s): Awesome. Yeah, I know Jason’s doing a cool thing over there and that is an interesting conversation about the conventional and spay right? Or flies that you have, especially when you’re at, at a lodge or something like that, you know? Do you feel like, and you know, you haven’t been there a long time, but do you feel like there, is there a mix of guys there at the lodge? Do you get some conventional guys? I, I know there’s some transition going, but like in the evenings when you’re there, is that kind of, or do you guys have the program where it’s all spay? Floyd (56m 35s): No, there’s a little bit of overlap. Yeah. And, you know, at the end of the day, we all love the same resource and what appeals to you and what appeals to me as far as tactics isn’t a distinction I’m gonna get hung up on. No. The pursuit and appreciation of the resource that is common ground. Yeah. It’s, and that’s what should be focused on. Dave (57m 0s): So you don’t see the old white, you know, again, I always go back to the old elitist yuppie white, old, white guy. Right. Do you not see that as much in, you know, because of the, the Jason and the shot and the people you’re around? Or do you still see some of that out there? Floyd (57m 15s): I mean, there’s some of that around, but the, the tone that is set in the places and the people that I work for to say it’s shut down. It’s not shut down aggressively, it’s just not really acknowledged to give it that much energy. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. Because the bottom line is we all know where this resource is at this time, so we all have our part there. We do not need to go the way of the buffalo with these species. And so, yeah. Yeah. It’s our responsibility. Right. I hear you. To, to adjust and to accept shutdowns and regulations and travel an extra 45 minutes through an hour to go to some open waters, you know, and let things recover and do our part. Dave (58m 3s): Yeah. Would you, this has come up a couple times on the show, would you, if it got in some of these areas where, you know, you couldn’t just, the runs were down, you know, on maybe your favorite water, but instead of closing it, they were like, well, you know, you can only use flies that don’t have a hook. Right? No barb or no hook at all. So you just basically feather, would you still fish that, would that be interesting? Floyd (58m 25s): Ooh, boy, that’s a deep question. Dave (58m 28s): Like just getting the, I guess winter steel has different probably because you’re down, but if you’re doing like summer steelhead, right, you’d have more feedback maybe if you’re doing some stuff on the surface, Floyd (58m 37s): You know, as opposed to that I would just travel further. I would make the investment to go somewhere where they’re not in jeopardy, is what I would do. And I fish with people who would do that. I am just a brush monkey who’s not that evolved yet. Dave (58m 52s): Yeah, yeah, that’s right. Yeah. You’re early in the game. That’s the amazing thing about it. ’cause you know, it’s all an evolution, you know, we’re all, I mean, I’ve evolved and, and stuff like that, so it’s, it’s pretty, that’s part of the fun. Yeah. Floyd (59m 2s): We are where we are at, right? Dave (59m 4s): Yep. At this moment. Right. And, and be in the moment. That’s also the take home is that, you know, this is the moment Right now whether you’re out in the river swinging for that, that one cast. Right. Be in that moment. Don’t, don’t be thinking about, you know, whatever you else you could be thinking about. Floyd (59m 18s): Yeah. Dave (59m 18s): Good. Well, let’s get a couple of random ones here and then we’ll take it outta here. You mentioned a few things. I thought that were pretty powerful. One of ’em, let’s just start, you know, go deep just for a second here on, you mentioned staying sober 12 years. I feel like a lot of people that’s a, a, a big thing, a big struggle for a lot of people I dealt with. You know, I’ve had alcoholism in my family, you know, for my whole life. Right. So it’s always a challenge. What would you be the tip, somebody’s listening now and they’re wanting to, you know, to get get to where you are. What would you tell that person? Floyd (59m 50s): Well, if, if that’s a struggle that they’re going through then, Dave (59m 55s): Or maybe what’s helped you do it. Floyd (59m 57s): Yeah. I was fortunate to have people in my life through their charity that I was able to go get help in a treatment facility. There you go. And the, the most common, and this might be a little over people’s head, but don’t believe your thoughts. That is the one, you know, my brain even to this day is not always my friend, you know? Gotcha. Right. My reaction versus my response is, is a universe of distinction. So, you know, because it feels impossible, because it feels hopeless, because there is no solution that your brain can come up with. Floyd (1h 0m 41s): Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You know, asking for help, putting one foot in front of the other, doing what is recommended or suggested and rinse and repeat until you can rewire that brain and make it trustworthy is kind of the path that I took. Dave (1h 0m 58s): Yep. And, and it’s worked and that’s amazing. Yeah. I think that that’s, yeah, it’s, it’s, you know what I mean? We all have these struggles and there’s different things. I kicked tobacco, you know, actually about the same time as you actually, I think it was, it has been something about 12 years, 13 years now. That’s Floyd (1h 1m 13s): Huge. I feel like that’s my next one. I, yeah. There’s just not been enough heat yet, I guess. Dave (1h 1m 19s): Yeah. Well I’ll give you my tips on that. I’ll actually send you to a, I do have a blog post out there. I wrote, gosh, way back in the day. I, it’s, I think it’s still out there, but it was like the 12 things that helped me quit. And, And it was, you know what I mean, like you said, some of them accountability, like tell everybody you’re quitting. Yeah. Tell be like, Hey, hey everyone. No more secrets. Yeah. No more secrets. No more secrets because you can quit. ’cause I did that. I quit like a hundred times, you know, that year before I quit for good. And, and, but once I told people, you know, that was big. And then, you know what I mean, like set a plan and, and have something else to fill the gap. For me it was like working out, you know, running, exercising, you know what I mean? You gotta have something to fill the gap. So those are my two little, little tips on it. It’s worked, but also have a meaning, you know, you have a, have a reason to do it. Dave (1h 2m 2s): For me, I, it was right when my first daughter was born and I was like, All right. You know what I mean? Like, this is a good time to do it. There you go. They’ve never seen me, they’ve never seen tobacco Right. With me. That’s never been even a thing. So that’s a, and the reason I chewed, if you think about it, why did I start chewing? Because my dad chewed Copenhagen because my three older brothers chewed. And so I chew, right? It’s a family. It’s like you got all this family stuff, pressure, genetics, the environment. So anyways, does, does that make sense? Does that resonate with you at all? Floyd (1h 2m 28s): 100%. Yeah. 100%. You can just go down the family tree with mine as well and the, the, the verdict was already in. Yeah. Right. Dave (1h 2m 37s): Yeah. Totally. Cool. Well, you mentioned a boat. Are you a more a foot or do you have a boat out there that you’re, you’re fishing out of? Floyd (1h 2m 44s): Yeah, no, we do everything with boots on the ground. So I’ve got a, a liquid soar and Oh, you, Dave (1h 2m 50s): Yeah, you have a, yeah, you have a raft. Floyd (1h 2m 52s): Yeah. And so I, I get us from point A to point B And we dissect water And we, we swing, if it could be swung, we swing it, you know? Dave (1h 3m 2s): Yeah. The rafts the big Right. The raft gets you to places that a drift boat can’t get to, Floyd (1h 3m 7s): You know, that tends to be the case. I do like it, it’s just much more forgiving, you know? Yeah, right. Dave (1h 3m 13s): It’s a good, yeah, it’s forgiving too, right. And you can go, you can get a little more whitewater. We, we actually talked to the, I think it was, was it Jack Clack of craft, the guy who’s kind of running the show at Clack of when we were asking about that, you know, like the boats, you know, they’re still kicking butt. But that’s the same thing. Like there’s some places where you wouldn’t take a clack of craft, right. That you can’t, even though you could take those a lot of places, there’s some places where I, I wouldn’t take that, you know, drift boat. I’d rather take a raft. Floyd (1h 3m 37s): Yeah. And my, my rack and roll days are over, you know, I, I will do things in accordance to my skillset And it portage is required. We will, and, but the ultimate goal is to enjoyably start and finish the day. And so, you know, that might have not have been my point of view 25 years ago, but fortunately now I’ve come to the game with the right mentality, with a healthy respect. Love Dave (1h 4m 8s): It. This is great. This has been awesome, Floyd. I think, yeah, we can leave it there. I’ll send everybody out to carter spay.com and also, or is that the best way? Maybe just tell us where is the best place to send people if they wanna connect with you and pick your brain on stuff? Well, Floyd (1h 4m 22s): Carter spay or just, you know, reach out directly to the phone number, the (405) 402-5253. Awesome. Yeah, and I’m usually around, and if I’m not, then I get back pretty quickly. Dave (1h 4m 34s): Yeah, perfect. So yeah, so if people are interested and, and it’s still time right? As this episode comes out, obviously it’s gonna be out there a long time, but Right now I think it’s gonna go live in probably February. Yeah, a couple weeks. So is that, is this Right now primetime? Are you out there like full winter steelhead Right now? Floyd (1h 4m 50s): Oh yeah. I, I’ve been waiting for what we have today, right. Which we, we had some rain show up and I mean, we had next to nothing for January. And I feel like this is the pulse, this is what we’re looking for. Yeah, Dave (1h 5m 5s): The pulse. So where are, where are you going? So you get that pulse and you, like you said it, you’re hitting the op, so you’re heading to the op to the, and then you’re gonna do that for a, a month or so, and just like, do you, are you like go hard, like just kind of dirt bag it, trout bu sort of thing? You’re going for it? Floyd (1h 5m 20s): Yeah, I’ll be guiding for about, I’ll have a couple days off in between, but I’ll be guiding for, you know, 30 to 40 days up there. And then when I’m not guiding, I’m gonna be out there with, you know, friends or myself and I mean, if I’m not out there getting paid to do it, then I’m out there getting the payment myself. Dave (1h 5m 41s): That’s amazing. Yeah. You, you, you’ve got it, dude, this is great. All right. Yeah, Floyd, we’ll, like we said, we’ll send everybody out. We’ll have links in the show notes and thanks again for all your time today. Looking forward to Yeah. Hopefully getting on the water with you as well and, and staying in touch. Floyd (1h 5m 53s): Yeah, it sounds like we’re gonna share some time out there. Yeah, man. On Togiak. Yeah. So I look forward to it. Dave (1h 5m 59s): All right. Before we get outta here, just wanna remind you, if you’re interested in this trip, we have limited spots for Togiak River Lodge. This is, it doesn’t get any better than this. We’ve got the lodge on the river, we’ve got Chinook salmon, king salmon. If you’re interested in this trip Right now is your chance. Check in with me, Dave, at wetly swing.com and, and follow up with me and I’ll let you know, we’re gonna be sending some stuff out to see who wants to jump in on this. And, and it’s gonna be July. So if you wanna get out into Alaska sky under the, the, the land of the Midnight Sun, if you want that experience and to just go all in on this spa trip, check in with me. All right. Just wanna remind you, if you’re on Spotify Right now, definitely make sure to follow the show so you get the next episode delivered. Dave (1h 6m 45s): It’s your inbox and I’m gonna get onto the next one. Hope you have a great morning, hope you have a great afternoon or great evening wherever you are in the world, and hope to see you up on Togiac and talk to you soon.