722 | Fishing for the Snake River Cutthroat with Josh Gallivan – Grand Teton Fly Fishing

Dave (2s): There’s something about catching a native fish in its home range. There are a ton of species spread around the world and around this country. But there’s something great when you can connect with one fish on your terms. It’s a special moment. Today’s guest makes his living connecting anglers with native cutthroat trout, And today you’re going to experience how he brings it all together. So you have a few more tips for your next trout trip. This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, And what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. Hey, how’s it going? I’m Dave host of the Wetly Swing podcast. I’ve been fly fishing since I was a little kid. I grew up around a little fly shop and have created one of the largest fly fishing podcasts in this country. Dave (44s): I’ve also interviewed more of the greatest fly anglers and guides than just about anyone out there. Josh Galvin, head guide at Grand Teton Fly Fishing is gonna walk us through his program on the streams and lakes around the Grand Teton area. You’re gonna hear how he got his start working at the Jack Dennis Fly Shop back in the day. This is a great story. He gets into another Jack Dennis sighting, and you’re also gonna find out how Josh sight fishes for trout and some big tips on fishing lakes. We’re gonna get into it still water as well today. Plus you’re gonna hear about his program around the world and this mothership trip that it’s amazing. You can’t miss this one, the mothership trip. It’s gonna be a good one. All right, let’s get into it. Here he is, Josh Gallivan from Grand Teton fly fishing.com. Dave (1m 28s): How you doing, Josh? Josh (1m 29s): I’m good, Dave. Thanks for having me, man. Yeah, Dave (1m 31s): Yeah, I’m really excited about this one. I, you know, I’m, I’m excited because I haven’t been out. I mean, I’ve been in the, your neck of the woods where you’re the head guide with Grand Teton Fly Fishing, but I haven’t been out with you specifically. So I’m hoping, you know, maybe in the next year we’ll be changing that. But we’re gonna talk the Grand Tetons Jackson Hole, you know, kind of the Snake River system, everything that’s going on out there, which we all know is a lot. We’ve been covering a lot of content out there. But before we jump into that, first off, how are things going? What it’s like, it’s kind of mid, when this goes live, it’s gonna be like mid to late February. What’s, what’s happening now? What’s gonna be happening in the next month or so? Josh (2m 5s): Oh man, it’s, you know, I’m sitting here in Jackson Right now. It’s supposed to be negative 18. Oh, wow. This weekend. So it’s kind of comical that we’re talking about a fly fishing podcast. Dave (2m 17s): Has it been negative 18? I’ve been hearing that around the country. Has it been a while since it’s been that cold? Josh (2m 23s): Well, this is the first time this winter. Dave (2m 24s): Yeah. But, but is that typical every winter you guys are getting a cold snap? Josh (2m 28s): Yeah, January is kind of the, you know, the coldest month of the year, shortest days of the year. But yeah, man, it’s, I drive over the Snake River every day and I just, I’m dreaming about, you know, summer months and spring coming. Yeah. Typically in March, kind of second half of March, early April, the temperatures start to stabilize And we have just some, some of the best dry fly fishing of the year, and it’s still ski season, so there’s really not a lot of people that know about it. But yeah, it can be very special. Dave (3m 1s): And is that for, is that the kind of bluing dolls and stuff like that? Or is that more midges? What, what’s going on that time of year? Josh (3m 7s): Yeah. Yeah. Betas and midges, the snake’s definitely a low water fishery, so it’s gonna fish best kind of a lower the water. And in March and April, you know, before runoff has happened, the fish are just potted up, you know, and they’re, they’re in the mid river riffles and there’ll be hundreds of fish in one riffle. You could just have so much fun just standing in one spot. Wow. Yeah, it’s epic. Dave (3m 34s): That’s really cool. So this is good. I, this is already starting off pretty good because, you know, I’m kind of thinking, always thinking about when we get into these things because, and you’ve done a lot of travel too around the, the country, the world and things like that. But when we take it in there, there’s a lot of times you could fish the snake. Right. And we’ve been out there later in the fall and things like that, but, but it’s great to hear winter. Yeah. Those are the times Josh (3m 53s): Everybody knows about. Dave (3m 54s): Yeah. That’s what everybody knows, but people don’t think about this winter. And I guess, could you still in March and April get a cold snap out there, get some crazy weather? Josh (4m 2s): Yeah, you could. I mean, it’s definitely more weather dependent that time of year. But then again, I mean in, I’ve fished in snowstorms in June before, you know? Dave (4m 11s): Yeah. Yeah. Well, let’s, we’re gonna tee that up here in a second. Before we get into that, I want to take it back real quick on your story, because I don’t wanna miss that. I wanna hear about how you got into fly fishing, you know, what’s your first memory? How did you come into connecting with Grand Teton and Scott out there? Josh (4m 26s): Yeah, so growing up here in Jackson, you know, I fished a little bit as a kid, but I really didn’t dive into fly fishing until I was in high school. And I got a job at the Jack Dennis Outdoor shop. And, you know, I worked with, I worked with some pretty amazing people. I worked with Jeff er, you know, Scott Sanchez, who’s the most creative, innovative fly tire I’ve ever seen. I shared days off with Jeff, and pretty quickly I, you know, I kind of remember the fishing guides coming into the shop, like after guiding, and they were just kind of sunburnt and tired, and they were picking up flies for the following day. Josh (5m 11s): And something just kind of in me, I was like, I want that, you know, I need to be a fishing guide. I can’t be in the shop just selling flies to people and talking fishing every day. I, I wanna live it, you know? Yeah. So after three years in the fly shop, I think I was just outta high school, I started guiding, and it’s just become, it’s become, you know, my, my passion and the people you meet along the way, and, you know, it’s given me a, it’s given me a livelihood. It’s given me a life. I really wouldn’t have it any other way. I mean, it’s really just an awesome thing. Dave (5m 48s): Yes. It sounds pretty awesome. And I love that. I always love when I get a Jack Dennis story or two, and we’ve had him on the podcast and Oh, really? Yeah. It was one of the best episodes because he is just got so many stories. But talk about that. And it was the Jack Dennis Outdoor store, not the Jack Dennis fly shop. Is that a different thing or? Well, the, Josh (6m 3s): The fly shop was in the, the outdoor store. Dave (6m 6s): Okay. So describe for those, ’cause we’ve talked, you know, we’ve had Jeff Curry, we had a lot of people on, but I’ve never heard about what it looked like. Can you describe the Jack Dennis Outdoor store back Josh (6m 15s): In the day? Yeah. Yeah. So the shop itself is a huge outdoor store. It’s right on the town square, you know, in the summer we get 6 million visitors a summer Wow. In our little town of 15,000 people. So it’s a really popular place. And Jack did so much for the sport. I mean, it was, it was just awesome getting to work with him. And, you know, it was a really interesting kind of client base, because I think you get a lot of just tourists that come through that are interested in fly fishing. And there we do have a good amount of fly fishermen, hardcore fly fishermen that, that come through too. But, you know, just random people walking into the fly shop and you just have five minutes with them to chat and try to turn ’em into a fly fisherman right then and there. Josh (7m 3s): But, you know, a lot of our, our bread and butter in the fly shop was honestly like two hour casting lessons. And I taught a lot of people, I think I set the record, I actually beat Jeff Courier. I, I did five, two hour lessons in a day. Wow. Yeah. So 10 hours of just talking, fishing and casting in a stocked pond, you know, and I mean, it was good money, it was good exposure. It was just great. Dave (7m 28s): That’s crazy. So you had a actual, a pond near the fly shop? Josh (7m 32s): No, we, we had a pond, you know, offsite that we Dave (7m 35s): Oh, okay. Stocked. Gotcha. So people would come through and, and they would be new to fly fishing, or maybe they fly fish, but they need some help, and you’d say, Hey, let’s set up a casting and we’ll head out to the pond. Yeah, Josh (7m 46s): Yeah, exactly. You know, a lot of kids, little, you know, families. Dave (7m 51s): God, that’s so good. What’s that like when you, ’cause I’ve done some casting instruction and I think, you know, you have your own way. I, I was never trained, you know, I don’t have a certification, anything like that. So I think it, it was not always the easiest thing. How do, how would those two hours look in the casting instruction? Josh (8m 8s): Yeah. So, you know, right off the bat you’re just trying to get to know people and you’re trying to, you’re just trying to let your passion sort of shine through with what you’re talking about. I would do, you know, with two hours, I would do a little bit of knots cast and just try to give ’em a rundown of what fly fishing is, you know? Right. It’s actually quite hard to do. There’s really an art to it. Dave (8m 30s): Right. So you’d have somebody come out there, you’d get on the pond, and you would just basically take the rod and say, okay, here’s what you gotta do. You gotta rig up your leader, tie on a, did you tie some yarn on the end of the, on the, of the leader? That sort of thing? Yeah. Josh (8m 42s): Or just cut the hook off, Dave (8m 43s): Or just cut the hook off and then, and then basically just kinda show them what a cast looks like. And then do you just give ’em the rod and say, you know, now try it. Or how do you, like if it’s somebody really new, how do you do that? Josh (8m 54s): You know, honestly, the first thing I would say is, so what is your fly fishing experience and what do you think fly fishing is? And I think 90% of people honestly thought that you were doing this back and forth motion to, you know, to create a flying insect Oh, right above the water. And then the, the fish would come up and jump and grab it. Dave (9m 14s): A river runs through it. Right. That, that famous Josh (9m 16s): Cast, a river runs through it, that famous cast. Yeah. Yeah. So, and I quickly, you know, started telling people, well, the reason that we false cast is number one, dry the fly off, number two, you know, reposition your, your cast and aim. And so people started to pick it up pretty quickly. Dave (9m 34s): Yeah, exactly. Cool. So, yeah. So that’s Jack Dennis, obviously he’s the man, he’s got tons of history there. We’ll put a link out to that episode we have with Jack as well. But let’s get into a little bit back to what I was saying on that wintertime piece. What was, you know, if you take it right to the water, let’s just say it’s, you know, what would you say, mid-March to kind of April or kind of in that period, what does a good day on the water look like as far as weather? Is this is clear, sunny, is that okay? Or what are you looking for for conditions? Josh (10m 5s): So in the spring, we’re, we’re definitely looking for, you know, like even a 40 degree day is the bugs are gonna pop, the fish are gonna be active. And coming from a long winter, it feels like a 60 degree day. And, you know, if the sun’s out great tends to be a little bit warmer if it’s like, just lightly snowing. But the challenge that we see in the spring is all the boat ramps are still under like six feet of snow. Oh, Dave (10m 32s): Right. Josh (10m 33s): So we have a raft and we’re able to push the raft over the snow and, you know, find access to the river that way. But the best activity is gonna be, you know, in the heat of the day from like noon to four. And a lot of people are not aware of this. And so you take ’em out there. And it honestly, a, a, a good day in the spring, rivals any day in the summer, you know, with tons of snow on the ground, people cannot believe it. That is awesome. Dave (10m 60s): So are you doing the same program then? Are you getting in at a boat ramp and just basically floating the river as you would do and in the summer or fall? Josh (11m 7s): Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But there’s no pressure. There’s nobody out there. Yeah. It’s just really a special time of year. Dave (11m 14s): Sounds great. So, like you said that the best time that that could start happening is, is there a, is it usually around that mid-March, late March, when you start thinking about, you know, that getting back into it? Josh (11m 23s): Yeah. You know, you’re watching the weather and you’re, I I’m looking for like a 45 degree day, and you just know the river’s gonna pop. Yeah. Dave (11m 32s): What does it look like when it pops if you’re out there And it starts popping at noon or something like that? Josh (11m 36s): Well, I mean, if I don’t know where a trout lives by now, I’m screwed. Yeah. But you can pull into a riffle or in a slew, like a really just calm backwater, and you sit and you look at it for 10 seconds, and if you don’t see heads, you move on because it’s all sight fishing, it’s all, you know, you know, there should be fish right here. And you start to see the little blue wings, you start to see their, their wings coming up off the water. You know, midges are hard to see from a distance, but you can see a blueing from a distance and, you know, it’s, it’s like clockwork. You see that nose come up and sip it, and it’s really, really exciting. Dave (12m 15s): Wow. What is a typical fly you’re using there as far as bluing oil? What size, what pattern? And then maybe talk a little about your lean setup. Josh (12m 24s): Yeah. So, you know, I, I mean, you, these fish are not, they’re not picky, they’re cutthroat, but you do have to have the right size fly. So like a size 16, you know, compare, done kind of sparsely tied little L care post. And then with that fly, I would fish, you know, probably a, at least a 10 foot, five x liter. Yeah. Not too technical. And it’s quite forgiving. The fish will give you multiple chances as long as the fly lands, you know, relatively soft. Yeah. It’s, it’s just epic, man. Dave (13m 1s): Okay. And are you typically fishing out of the raft when you’re doing, using the raft? Josh (13m 5s): Either way, you can, I mean, you can pull over, you can walk up to the top of the run and kind of get more stealthy and, yeah. Dave (13m 12s): Right. Gosh. And then these are the, the Yellowstone Cutthroat for the most part? Josh (13m 16s): No, these are all, these would be Snake River Dave (13m 18s): Cutthroat. Oh, snake River. Right. Yes. These are different. So, so talk about that a little bit. So you have a couple things going on here. These are the Snake River. And aren’t there other species too, in, in this part of the snake? Josh (13m 29s): Yeah, we have, you know, we have white fish, we have a couple brown trout, couple brook trout, but really the only the fish that we’re after is the Snake River Cutthroat. Yeah. Dave (13m 38s): Snake River. Cutthroat. That’s it. Because that’s the native, that’s the one fish out of all of ’em that’s native. Josh (13m 43s): Yeah. Well, the white fish, you know, every Oh yeah. Most, you know, the white fish and the suckers, those are all native. Dave (13m 49s): Right, right. God, that’s great. Nice. Okay. And so that’s it. It sounds like it’s pretty straightforward in the wintertime, you’re not gonna have as much pressure. What about, what about if you don’t have a boat, are there places to go to? Can you fish the snake? Or maybe there’s other, other tributaries that you could fish and maybe get some action this, that time of year? Josh (14m 5s): I would say the snake is definitely, it’s the best access. And a lot of the tributaries don’t even open until April 1st. But, you know, the snake is sort of the femoral artery of, of town and the be, Dave (14m 17s): Because it’s the tail water. That’s the big thing, right? Yeah. Josh (14m 20s): Yeah. So during the winter months at, at low flows, all the most of the fish, I would say, move out of the tributaries, and they, they move into the snake. Oh, Dave (14m 30s): Right. Josh (14m 31s): So you’re not gonna have this sort of action that I’m talking about up a tributary, the tributary fish, if they’re in there, they’re gonna be more sort of, I don’t know, more opportunistic and they’re not gonna be feeding as much. So, Dave (14m 45s): Yeah. Okay. So the Snake River cutthroat. And what’s a typical size of a Snake river? Cutthroat? What, what’s a typical, and then what do you, what’s a bigger Snake River Cudi? Josh (14m 54s): You know, I, I would say like a 20 inch snake river cutthroat is a very large fish. Yeah. But you have to take into account the, you know, the, we have really long winters. We have a short growing season. You know, the river’s really steep, it’s prone to flooding. So when you do catch that 19, 20 inch fish, I mean, that’s an old fish. And it’s really special to have a native trout fishery where we can, you know, I live two minutes from the river, I could go fishing as soon as we hang up this call. Dave (15m 21s): No kidding. Josh (15m 22s): You know, and yeah, it’s just special in that way. I think you have to appreciate the, you have to appreciate a true fisherman has to appreciate every river you step into. Yeah. For what it is. You know, we, I don’t really fish big articulated streamers on this river. You know, these cutthroat are more, they eat bugs, you know, they do eat streamers, but, you know, it’s not a brown trout fishery. No, Dave (15m 45s): No. This is a, to experience this as a, a snake river cutthroat on the surface, on a dry fly, that’s kind of what this is about. Josh (15m 54s): Yeah. And you know, I think Jack Dennis is the first person that he sort of made this place famous, because he said years ago, he said you could catch a trout on a dry fly every month of the year in Jackson. And it’s true, you know, your window in January might be short, but if the sun comes out and the, the water temperature just bumps up a degree or two, there will be bugs and there will be fish eating them. So it’s pretty unique in that way. Dave (16m 19s): Right. What’s it like when the, in Jackson Hole in, so you said the town has 15,000 people. Josh (16m 25s): Yeah. Give or take Dave (16m 26s): 15,000. And then what’s it like? So now it’s probably got 15,000 people, but come July when it’s, there’s millions coming through, what is that like? Is it exciting? Is it fun? Or do you get, you know, for you, what is it like? Josh (16m 39s): You mean when, when tourist season hits in the summer? Dave (16m 41s): Yeah, exactly. Josh (16m 42s): Yeah. I think there’s a lot of people in a small area, and I mean, we could talk all day about the issues with that, with the traffic and, and everything. But at the end of the day, people are here to enjoy the outdoors. And it’s as stewards of the environment and as stewards of the river, it’s kind of our chance to, you know, sort of educate our clients and educate these people about how fragile the resource is and the ecosystem. And yeah. It’s just, I connect a lot with my clients, you know, kind of introducing them to this sport and this area. And I think one of our jobs is guides, is to also educate people about the native trout and how rare it really is to have a native trout. Josh (17m 28s): You know, I mean, right. So many people have heard about the fishing in Patagonia or New Zealand, you know, but one thing they don’t take into account or realize is that they’re not native trout. You know, they’re wild, but they were stocked there. So to have such a thriving trout fishery here, you know, in this small city that we live in, is a really cool thing. Dave (17m 52s): That is, talk about that a little bit just on the, the trout itself. How, you know, it sounds like you know a little about the, the life history or how it differs from other cutthroat in there, because you do have a few other species and how unique that is. ’cause Yeah, you, you can go to a lot of places and catch rainbow, catch brown trout, but you’re not gonna find a, a native species. Right. That’s a native cutthroat, especially. Josh (18m 13s): Yeah. Yeah. Right. I believe there’s 26 different cutthroat species in the west, you know, and we’re lucky to have the Snake River cutthroat. And then up in Yellowstone we have the Yellowstone Cutthroat. Okay. And I think, don’t quote me on this. Yeah, Dave, but I’m, I’m pretty sure it’s the same, it’s the same genus. Dave (18m 31s): Yeah. Yeah. Well, the question was gonna be, you got Snake River Cutthroat, you know, you got that, you got Yellowstone Cutthroat. Are there any other cutthroat that are out around your area nearby? Josh (18m 40s): Well, yeah, we have, we have Colorado River Cutthroat in Wyoming. Dave (18m 45s): Yep. And the other one you don’t have, I don’t think, is, is West Slope cutthroat, which I think are a little bit further west. Josh (18m 52s): Yeah. I don’t think, no, we don’t have West Slope. Yeah. I mean, there’s a cut slam out here. Oh yeah. And I can’t even remember the fourth. I can’t even remember the fourth species. Yeah, Dave (18m 59s): The cut slam. Where, where is is that cut slam from? Is that like a, a Wyoming cut slam or what? What’s the cut slam? Josh (19m 6s): Yeah, it’s like a, it’s a Wyoming thing put on by the game and fish. Oh, Dave (19m 10s): Really? Okay. Josh (19m 11s): Yeah. And if you catch all four species, they send you a plaque And it doesn’t have to be four species in a day. I think it’s four species in a year. Dave (19m 20s): Yeah. Yeah. They got a whole, I’m looking at it now, the Josh (19m 22s): Bonneville Dave (19m 23s): Bonneville. That’s right. Yep. Josh (19m 24s): Bonnie’s. That’s Dave (19m 25s): Right. Wow. Those fish are amazing. Yeah, those cutthroat are beautiful. They’re, they’re almost, they’re golden, right? I mean, I guess the colors can vary, but they’re, wow, that’s really cool. Yeah, I’m on the, the Wyoming Fish and Game site now. There’s online application, interactive cut, slam guide. There’s definitely some resources there. Josh (19m 42s): Yeah. We’re really, we’re really lucky, man. Right on. It’s an amazing place. Dave (19m 46s): Well, how did we, we mentioned Scott the star who kind of runs Grand Teton fly fishing. How did you come to connect with him after? Well, we, we had Jack Dennis. Right. So after that, where did, where did Scott fit into the pitcher? Josh (19m 58s): Yeah. So Scott was Jack’s head guide. Dave (20m 1s): Oh, that’s right. Josh (20m 2s): Yeah. And then, so when Jack sold the, the guiding business, he sold it to Scott Smith and Mark Fuller, who were two of the head guides. Dave (20m 11s): Oh, gotcha. So he sold, so Jack Dennis sold, so this is from Jack Dennis’s shop, basically. This, Josh (20m 16s): This program still. Yeah. We’re all the, you know, the old Jack Dennis crew. So falling in with Scott and Mark was just awesome for me. I mean, I, I started, I was very young and green. I did, I grew up here and I did have a drift boat. Dave (20m 30s): Hmm. What was your drift boat? What was that drift boat you have? Oh, Josh (20m 33s): It was a, a clock or craft? Just a, it was actually a high side. My first boat was a high side. Dave (20m 38s): Oh, no kidding. Yeah. Was that before your first boat? Did they have the low sides back then? Or why, why’d you get a high side? Was it just there? Josh (20m 45s): Well, I think the reason I got a high side was, ’cause my uncle helped me buy this boat in high school, and he, he, you know, he thought it was safer. Oh, right. Safer to row. Safer to learn to row. But if you’re guiding and you’re rowing every day, it’s, you quickly realize it’s definitely not the friendliest boat on your back. Dave (21m 5s): No, no. Especially with the wind. Right. And some of that Josh (21m 7s): Stuff. Yeah. So then I got a, a low side. Dave (21m 9s): Yeah. What do you have now? Josh (21m 11s): I’ve got a, a 16 Eddie Clark Craft. Dave (21m 14s): Yeah. Clark, 16 foot Eddie, like low side. Is this a, so kind of the, they’re all a little similar, right. That’d be similar to like hides low side boat or whatever. I’m not sure what they’re called. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So it’s not a, is it a pram? Would you call it a pram? Does it have the pointed bow? Yep, it does. Yeah. So it’s Josh (21m 31s): Got the point. Yeah. So it’s not a skiff. Dave (21m 32s): Not a skiff. Josh (21m 33s): Gotcha. Yeah. ’cause I like, I like to put a motor on the back, and I really like to fish Dave (21m 36s): Lakes. Oh, wow. That’s really cool. Yeah. Josh (21m 39s): So headed, but backtrack a little bit. So when I was a, a first year fishing guide, I did have mentors because I, I worked in the Jack Dennis fly shop, and I remember a couple of the senior guides saying, you know, make sure you, here, here’s some things you need to do to make sure this is a successful career for you. So one of the things was at the end of the guide season, well make sure you keep a calendar and write notes, you know, write notes about every day and write notes about your, your clients and, you know, keep in touch with your people, you know, and make sure you send them Christmas cards after the first year. Sure. Which I did. Josh (22m 19s): And it, it was awesome. Like, all of those people I sent Christmas cards through, booked me No kidding. The Dave (22m 24s): Following Josh (22m 24s): Year. And That’s amazing. Still some of those clients are like my clients from my very first year. Do Dave (22m 30s): You still send Christmas cards to this day? Josh (22m 33s): Less so I, but I do send emails and instead of Christmas cards I just call people, you know? Yeah. But that sort of, you know, that sort of attitude of what you lack in experience, you kind of make up for and hustle and just a positive attitude. I mean, I kept people out late first year. I kept people out till dark, like all the time because I just wanted people to have the best day ever. You know? And yeah, I, I had a clean truck. I I served amazing lunches, you know, and I think those things kind of paid off. Dave (23m 7s): Right. Yeah. Those are, those are big. It’s the, it seems like with the guide that, you know, the fishing is fishing. Right. It could be up and down, but it’s all those little things. Right. I think if you nail those, you make the experience. You could even have, can you, you can have a bad day right. On the water, maybe as far as catching the fish, but still have a good day with the Josh (23m 23s): Client. Totally. Exactly. And if you teach people something and, and people can see that you’re putting effort in, and honestly, sometimes the, the fishless days are the, are the hardest days on the guide, you know? Dave (23m 35s): Yeah. The fishless are the hardest. Yeah. Josh (23m 37s): Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, I had to work twice as hard to try to find fish. Although fishless days here are really rare, And we can put a fly rod in a, in a kid’s hand, and with 20 minutes of, of casting practice and just coaching, I mean, we can get that kid to throw 30 feet. And then if you’re in a drift boat, you know, we use the drift boat as a tool because the, with the boat, you can position the cast and position the fly exactly where you want it. That’s why I think this is such a great area for beginners, is because cutthroat are, are pretty friendly fish. They’re not super picky. And we fish outta drift boats. Yeah. Dave (24m 16s): You have a lot of, a lot of access. And some of it is, you know, you’re almost kind of fish like Right. You get in the boat in the position. So you’re, you’re working their fly almost. Is it? Does that, are you doing that a lot out there during the summer? Oh, yeah, Josh (24m 27s): Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I mean, that’s 90% of guiding out here is, is rowing the boat accordingly, so that the, the, the flies in the proper water and drifting as it should, you can honestly almost set the hook with a drift boat. Dave (24m 43s): Oh, really? Right. Josh (24m 44s): Oh, yeah. Like you let their line drift out in front of the boat a little bit, teaching ’em how to mend. And then when you see that fish eat, if their line’s already tight, you just pull back on the oars really hard, their line goes tight, boom, fish on. Dave (24m 58s): Wow. Yeah. That’s cool. Setting it with the drift phone. Okay. Josh (25m 2s): Oh yeah. There’s all sorts of tricks, man. Dave (25m 4s): Yeah, that’s great. But Josh (25m 5s): At the end of the day, the, I think the idea is to make them believe they did it all Yeah. By themselves. Exactly. Dave (25m 12s): Do you get a mix of, you know, you mentioned you got your returning clients that, like in any given year, is it kind of like a half and half new people coming through? Or, or what’s that look like for you? Josh (25m 21s): For me, it’s actually now a hundred percent people I know. Dave (25m 24s): Oh, it is, yeah. Right. Josh (25m 26s): You built the clientele. Yeah. And that’s, that’s a great place to be. I mean, I, I get to pick and choose who I fish with, and unfortunately there’s just one of me and I have to have a family life, and so I take weekends off. But I could book, I mean, if I wanted to, I could book every single day of the summer just with people that I know. Dave (25m 45s): Today’s episode is brought to you by Grand Teton Fly Fishing. They’re a top guide, service and fly shop with access to some of the most prized waters in western Wyoming. And their guide team brings together over 200 years of local experience. Their goal is simple to share these amazing resources and help you experience the thrill of a native cutthroat rising to a single dryly all in the shadows of the Tetons. It’s the kind of experience that stays with you and fosters a deep appreciation for the waters we love. You can check ’em out Right now at Grand teton fly fishing.com, and if you book a trip, let them know you heard about them through this podcast today. What’s your, you also have an operation, some travel, it sounds like maybe, maybe not as much as you used to do. Dave (26m 28s): You got three kids now. I think you’ve got a young one there, but, but what does that look like? Where are some of those places around the, the country, the world that you’re really loving? You know, either been there in the past or looking forward to getting back to, Josh (26m 40s): Oh, man, you know, I really love, I love sight fishing whenever possible, so I’m kind of drawn to like the saltwater flats environments. But yeah, I’ve, you know, over the last probably eight years I’ve been hosting fishing trips and these are just clients of mine that I’ve taken on trips. You know, we’ve been to Greenland, been to Cuba, been to The Bahamas, Bolivia, wow. Mexico, Belize, just kind of all over. Dave (27m 9s): What was the, what was Cuba? What was that like? Josh (27m 11s): Oh, man, Cuba was last April. Cuba was really cool. You know, we were on a mother ship And we gotta spend a couple days in Havana before the trip, and that was a very unique, very unique place. And the fishery was really remarkable. I mean, I’ve never seen a place like that where, you know, it’s not finding the fish is the hardest part, but then every tarpon that we cast at, if it, if it was a decent cast, the fish ate the fly, which is not my experience in places like the Florida Keys where there’s so much pressure, or I don’t know what it is, but, you know, you perfect cast, you’re, you’re stripping and you see the fly right in front of their nose and, and they don’t even look at it, you know? Josh (27m 55s): But in Cuba, every single tarpon ate the fly. Wow. And I don’t know why, but I, the only thing I can think of is less fishing pressure. Dave (28m 4s): Right. And was Tarpon, was that the main species you were going for? Josh (28m 8s): Yeah, there’s really good tarpon fishing. There’s big berra snapper permit, bonefish, barracuda, you know, all the normal flat species. But yeah, it was very, very sweet, very cool place. Dave (28m 20s): What was the, doing the mothership experience? Maybe describe that a little bit. Josh (28m 25s): Okay, so the, the mothership, it’s, we were on that Avalon one, which is one of the original, original boats in Cuba. But there’s 10 rooms, you know, all the staff and the guides are on the boat with you. It’s three stories. Wow. So there’s plenty of room for people to spread out, very comfortable, you know, really, really well thought out operation. You know, you come back from fishing and you’re, you’re sunburnt and sweaty and, and they have a platter of ice cold towels for your face, and then they, they hand you a rum punch Dave (28m 59s): A, a rum punch. Josh (29m 0s): Yeah. It’s just really epic. And then about 30 minutes later, the platter of appetizers comes out and you’re just really well taken care of, you know, and then the benefit of the mothership is that the, you’re anchored right there, five minutes from the fishing grounds. Dave (29m 17s): Oh, you’re right there. Yeah. Gotcha. So you got your boat. Josh (29m 20s): Yeah. So at night we would literally, we’d sit on the top deck of the boat and there’s a big hot tub up there. Oh man. And so we’re just like enjoying each other’s company and talking about the fishing and all the stories that come from it. Yeah. And we’re watching Tarpon just roll in the sunset. Dave (29m 35s): Oh, no kidding. Josh (29m 36s): From the top of the boat. Wow. Yeah, it was, it was unbelievable. Oh Dave (29m 39s): My gosh. That, that’s what’s cool about it, is you’re, you are in their environment. You’re not only not just on land, you’re like just sitting there floating in the in. Yeah. That is really cool. Josh (29m 49s): Yeah. Awesome. Dave (29m 50s): So that would be, I would guess that that would be something you’d wanna do again, is that a trip that like, is tough to put together annually? Josh (29m 58s): It is. Because, you know, a lot of people that have done Cuba are probably gonna, probably gonna go somewhere else just to see a new place. But yeah, between me and Scott, you know, at Grand Teton fly fishing, we’re, we’re building kind of a hosting program where we take our, our guests all over the world. So it’s a win-win. I mean, because we do the research for these places, we put the whole trip together, and a lot of times we bring the gear too, so people that come on these trips, you know, being a part of a group experience and you get all the photos that come with it, and just the comradery of a, of a good group of people. It’s a lot of fun. Dave (30m 38s): That is really cool. Good. So you got that and I’m looking at the, the Avalon one. Yeah. It’s a huge boat. It looks, it’s really cool. God, look at the thing. Yeah. It’s, it’s giant three stories. Okay. What’s it like for the, the sleeping? Is that something, is it pretty just like normal sleeping in your house? Josh (30m 52s): Oh, yeah. Very comfortable. I mean, fully air conditioned, hot water showers, full bathroom. I mean, it’s luxury, total luxury. Dave (31m 1s): Nice. So you got Cuba down. What, what else do you have? Do you have other trips out there you want to get back to around the, around the country of the world? Josh (31m 9s): You know, I’ve done a lot of fishing in Tahiti, actually. Hmm. And there’s a place near Tahiti in the Tu Emoto’s. So Tahiti itself is in the society islands. About a two hour flight away from Tahiti is a little ATO called Anna. And this place has really captured my heart. Hmm. I’ve been there three times. And it’s just a really, really incredible, it’s an incredible fishery. There’s bonefish there, there’s all the traval species. We’ve got giant traval, bluefin traval, there’s Napoleon RAs there, there’s tons of snapper species, there’s sharks. But on top of all that, the cultural experience there is unbelievable. Josh (31m 54s): The locals just treat you like family, you know? And when we visit there we’re, because this, this alto is so remote that our group of fishermen we’re really the only tourist there. And so, you know, you’re, they bring you in and they just make you feel so welcome. And there’s beer throwing competition, there’s a pig roast on the beach, there’s tons of music. Literally everybody in that, on that island can pick up an instrument and just start playing. So when you leave that place, like you feel like you’re changed, you know? And a lot of places, I’ve been to a lot of these fishing destinations all over the world. There’s not a whole lot of cultural exchange happening. Yeah. Josh (32m 34s): And for me, fly fishing travel is definitely about the fish, don’t get me wrong. But there’s so much more you can appreciate, you know, the, the culture and, and the food and, and just being in this different environment, you know, it kind of, it changes your, like, your paradigm a little bit. And I think there’s like so much value in that as a human being at, you know, just seeing the world. Right. Yeah. So that’s what I love about Fly Fisher Travel is just being in a remote place in a completely different culture, different language, and waving a fly rod around. I mean, how can that suck? You Dave (33m 10s): Know? Yeah. No, I’m with you, man. I totally agree. I think that, you know, that’s come up a number of times on the podcast. And it was funny, I, I think I’d asked somebody, I can’t remember who it was on another podcast about Yeah. That I, I basically said the same thing. I was like, yeah, I mean this, the travel, the everything, it feels like that, that’s kind of what, what it’s all about. And then, but, but he was kinda like, no, it’s actually, the fly fishing is the most important thing, you know? But I think, yeah, yeah, I think it is, obviously it’s kind of what’s bringing us together, but I think you’re totally right on, like, if you’re not loving the cultures and being in a place like that in Tahiti, French Polynesia anywhere, really, you know, to be honest with you, you, you know, you could even be in North America or a a a, a city or town in, you know, in the United States that’s just kind of has its own unique culture. Dave (33m 53s): Like, you know, I mean, you know, so I think that you’re, that’s the extreme, what you’re talking about there. I think that’s extreme. If you can do that, that’s huge. Yep. But I always go back to that. We had this episode way back, gosh, I’m trying to think now, probably in the hundreds. But our guest was talking about how, you know, the destination is about where, you know, anything could be a destination. You know what I mean? She was saying like, you know, you can go to New York and that could be your destination. So I think there is a lot of awesome stuff. It sounds like you’ve traveled all over the place. I mean, what’s left for you now? You’ve hit all these places, like you’ve just named two that are probably high on anybody’s bucket list, you know, what else do you thinking about doing? Yeah. Josh (34m 31s): Oh man. There’s still so much. I mean, the world’s 85% water. Right? Right. So, I don’t know. There’s a lot, there’s a lot out there. I mean, there’s a lot in the US that I haven’t seen. Right. I’d love to go striper fishing, you know, I’d love to do more steelhead, salmon fishing up in your area. That’s kind of one of the cool parts about this journey that I’m on, is that knowing that there’s so much out there to see and experience and knowing that I’ll never get to do it all, you know? Dave (35m 2s): Yeah. What does that feel like for you? It’s Josh (35m 4s): Kind of a sobering Yeah. Dave (35m 5s): Does that, we all, we all in that situation, no matter, no matter how much money or time you have, you can’t do it all. What, what’s that feel like to you? How do you, how do you look at the future and prioritize? Josh (35m 16s): Oh man. You know, I just try to be present as, as often as I can. Yeah. And as as many cool places I’ve seen in the world, people come to Jackson Hole to trout fish. And so I often try to pinch myself when I’m sitting in the drift boat. Sometimes it feels like a day of work. And I’m like, man, people have come all over the, from all over the world to come see my little slice of heaven. And so I guess I just try to be present and put my phone down and just enjoy who I’m with and enjoy what I’m doing, you know, and teach it to my kids. And, you know, I’ve got a five-year-old and a both girls, and then we have a, we have a 15 day old baby boy and a lot of people, when my little boy was born, a lot of people were like, oh, what does that feel like having a boy? Josh (36m 9s): You know? And I’m like, well, it feels really no different than having girls. I mean, I’ve taught my girls how to fish and, you know, it really doesn’t matter to me. It doesn’t, I just want, I wanna spend time outdoors with my family, just teaching ’em, teaching ’em all the things that make my life so special, you know? And introduce ’em to outdoor experiences, camping, hunting, fishing. ’cause I think that’s where true happiness is, you know, is just spending time outside with loved ones. Yeah. It Dave (36m 39s): Is. No, I, I a hundred percent agree. I think the outdoors, there’s, how long have we been on the planet, you know? And it’s been mostly outdoors, you know, hunting, gathering. Right. That until, except for the last few hundred years or whatever it’s been, you know, I mean, we’ve been, that’s our place. So I feel that’s why it’s so good for people, you know? And that’s why people love it so much once they try fly fishing or they realize Right. The outdoors. And then, and then the girls the same thing, man. I have two girls as well. And I remember thinking that before my kids were born, I, I was always thinking, God, man, you know, having a boy, that’d be kinda be cool. You know, all that stuff. And then, yeah. And then as soon as I remember when my first daughter was born, I was like, that went, didn’t even think about that. Like, there was, that was never even a thought, to be honest with you. Josh (37m 19s): Right. Dave (37m 19s): Nice. Well, this is cool. I think we’ve covered a few things here. One thing I don’t wanna miss today, because you mentioned it, and I love, I love lakes. I think that lake fishing, we have a whole podcast series. We deal with Phil Rolly in the Littoral Zone. And I just, nice, I think it’s an awesome thing that, you know, not as many take advantage, not as many people take advantage of. But talk about that. What does your Stillwater fishing look like? I know there’s some sweet places out there. Are you doing that just on your off time or is that something where you can kind of like take clients? Josh (37m 48s): Yeah, so I’m not going to like specifically say where I fish lakes, but I guide a lot of lakes. Oh, Dave (37m 54s): You do? Okay. Josh (37m 55s): Oh yeah. Like, more than half of my season is now lake fishing. And I think I’m, I’m in that position to be able to fish lakes because I’ve, I’ve put in my time on the rivers and kind of building my guest list of friends and clients. And it was sort of my job to introduce them to lakes and grow their fly fishing experience. I just wanted to introduce people to like, okay, if you think this is cool, you’re not gonna believe what we can do on a lake, you know? Yeah. And I think the reason I love lakes so much is because most of the time you can sight fish. And I think there’s less people fishing lakes, and because the fish don’t have to fight current, I think they just get much fatter, you know, so you, it is a trophy fishery. Josh (38m 42s): I mean, you know, there’s just something fishing a lake forces you to slow down and really just kind of focus instead of just pounding the banks from a moving drift boat all day. Dave (38m 53s): Right. How do you do that with, oh, you said site fishing. I love that you, I mean, I, I don’t always think of lake fishing as, as site fishing. How is that, is that something you’re always looking for the opportunity to talk about what that looks like? Josh (39m 6s): Yeah, so I have a really proper Boston Whaler 22 foot lake boat. And using that boat, I can get up into the shallows and, you know, I, I can take people to these sand flats. That would just blow your mind, Dave. Really? It, it is Dave (39m 23s): Unbelievable. Yeah. So it feels like, it sounds like you’re creating that, you know, that the permit bonefish Definitely, Josh (39m 27s): Yes. A hundred percent. So I could sneak up on these sand flats and I have a center console. So what I do is I stand up on the center console and I look and I can spot fish a hundred feet away and the client has no idea they’re there, you know, and you kind of build it up and you are like, okay, we have a fish. He’s moving left to right. He’s at 11 o’clock, and I need you to start casting at 12 o’clock. I need you to lay out 50 feet of line, land it softly, you know, and perfect execution, perfect cast. Okay, let the fly drop. Okay, gimme a bump, bump, bump, bump. Okay. Long strip. And then you see the fish picked it up, the fish is now trailing behind the fly. And then I’m like, strip, strip strip. Josh (40m 9s): And the client still doesn’t see it happening. And then all of a sudden they come tight and it’s like, it’s just this magical experience. Wow. You know? Dave (40m 18s): Yeah. Josh (40m 18s): And I just love that so much. Maybe it’s because part of me wants to be a saltwater guide. Well, Dave (40m 23s): I was just gonna say, what, what it sounds like you’re doing is preparing yourself for later in life. You’ve got, and you’re preparing your clients, which is smart. We’ve heard this before on some other areas around the country where, you know, whether that’s, you know, heading up to Alaska or Canada for spay fishing, and then you take ’em out in the local trout waters and you know, wherever your home water is and teach ’em how to spay cast with the Trout bay. But you’re doing a, a similar thing, right? You’re Oh yeah. Getting ’em on lakes, getting them a feel for what that feels like in salt. And then, then you’re like, Hey, we’re heading to fish for know Josh (40m 53s): Bonefish. Exactly. Hey, by the way, we’re headed to The Bahamas. Dave (40m 56s): Yeah. And how could, you can pass that up. I mean, this makes total sense. So what’s keeping you from, I mean, obviously the cool thing is, Scott is amazing. I, I don’t know Scott as well as you obviously, but we had that one podcast episode. We’ll put a link in the show notes to that. I mean, it was great. You can just hear the same with you. You know, the knowledge, the history, the love, the passion, you know what I mean? Like it really comes out in Scott and you too. Yep. You know, what is it about that, what, what keeps you staying going strong in Jackson? Not pulling up and saying, Hey family, let’s move to Cuba or wherever. Josh (41m 28s): Yeah, I mean, I just love this area. I just love this place. And, and also I’ve built a, a good business here, you know, so I’m not, I’m not leaving to go start somewhere new. But that’s kinda why I got into hosting trips is because I, I wanna fly fish year round. I’m not in the ski industry. I’m not one of those guides that guides a little bit and then does something else. And the off season, I mean, I, my heart, my soul is in fly fishing year round. So the best way for me to, to do that was to try to put these trips together, put these group trips together, which has been awesome. I mean, you know, you could consider it a full-time living now. Just putting groups together, putting trips together all over the place. Josh (42m 8s): So that was how I was able to stay in fly fishing year round. Yeah. That’s it. You know, and kind of nurturing my, my clientele base where I was selling these people on while I’m out guiding them, I’m selling them on a fishing trip elsewhere because we have such a good time together, you know? Yep. Dave (42m 25s): And when you’re on the lakes, you were mentioning, is that, you know, the lakes that you’re fish or do you think every lake, most lakes out there have these types of sand flat sort of thing where you can fish sight fish for trout. Josh (42m 39s): Yeah. Dave (42m 39s): And this is trout that are basically coming in like they do, right? They come from the deep, depending on the water temperatures and all that. And then they, they come to the shadow, the littoral zone, and they, they feed more. Is that kind of what, what you’re doing? And you’re just definitely, you’re elevated. You got your, and I’m looking at a boss, 22 foot boss of whaler, which looks like a, a boat you could take out on the ocean. I mean, is that boat also? Oh, definitely. Yeah. So it’s a full on, but your client is on the deck just above. So they could see things and you could see things and you can cite fish and like for, is this dryly stream? What are you using with the sight fishing? Josh (43m 10s): So there is a dryly window. And that’s exciting. That’s really fun. ’cause these are cutthroat. Dave (43m 17s): Oh, they’re cutthroat still. So these are still cutthroat in lakes. Josh (43m 20s): Yep. Amazing. And so cutthroat love dry flies. So if you hit it right, I mean, it’s like bone fishing, but with dry flies, you know, it may flies Cass, but that’s kind of a short window. A lot of times the fish are suspended above the weed beds and we’re fishing a small leach to ’em, or you know, a dry dropper nim thing. You know, there’s, there’s a lot of different tactics and there’s so much more that goes into it. I mean, I play the sun, I play the wind, you know, and it’s really rewarding for me when it all lines up and, alright, the fish should be here and they are here and, you know, it’s just awesome. Dave (43m 56s): Yeah. What’s your window for lake fish? I know all lakes are different size and stuff, but typically, when do you think think’s a good time to be hitting the lakes? Josh (44m 4s): I would say June, July. Dave (44m 5s): Okay, so you wanna hit the summer? Josh (44m 6s): Yeah. Yeah, June july it gets the surface temps get a little warm in August, and so the fish are gonna go a little deeper, but then again in September, October, so it can be a year round thing, or not a year round thing, but all summer at least. Dave (44m 22s): Yeah, all summer. Wow. Yeah. Sounds like you’ve built a pretty amazing operation from the, like we said, taking it back to Jack Dennis and, you know, and, and then up to present day. What, what else are we, you know, leaving that we haven’t chatted about here? Any, any other big things you wanna hit on before we get outta here? Any trips or anything else? Josh (44m 42s): Man, not so much. Let me think about that. Yeah. Dave (44m 45s): Well, I’ve got a few more questions for you. I just wanna make sure we don’t miss anything specific, you know, for people listening. But I wanted to hear, you know, as you’re thinking about that, just on Jackson Hole, for somebody who hasn’t been there, what, what is it, what’s the thing? What, what do you think brings 6 million people to Jackson Hole? Is there, is that one thing? Is that a bunch of things? Josh (45m 4s): I think it’s a bunch of things. I think the fact that we have two national parks right here, you know, I think a lot of people are craving the outdoor life and the outdoor experiences that I get to live every day. You know, if you live in a city family vacations are gonna look like, you know, driving to a place like this where you can horseback ride, you know, you can fish, you can sightsee, hike. I mean, the outdoor industry is growing a lot. It is. And I think it’s cool because in order to protect a place you have to fall in love with it first. And I think for people to see, you know, Jackson and see that there’s an entire industry, like, we don’t have, we don’t really have an industry out here besides tourism and the outdoor industry. Josh (45m 48s): And so for people to see, you know, guys like me raising a family in a place like this, guiding fishermen, I think it’s just cool to introduce people to that other lifestyle, you know? And it’s not all about chasing money. No. It’s more about quality of life and, you know, just living a healthy, positive life and living in a great place like this. I mean, that’s worth millions of dollars right there. Yeah. Dave (46m 15s): It’s it’s pretty spectacular. It’s, and it’s not just one thing I think, you know, the Tetons obviously are, are crazy, right? How you can just Josh (46m 23s): Look at Oh yeah. At these Dave (46m 24s): Jag I remember the first time I saw the Tetons, it was just like, whoa. And then, and then you got Buffalo, right? You got all these things that, and then you could fish the, these rivers fly fish and what, what with literally animals, you know? I mean, and then it’s Yellowstone, right? You got Yellowstone that I think, which is, is it the top national park in the country as far as visitation? It’s either one or two, right? Josh (46m 44s): It’s gotta be up there. Yeah. I mean, and it’s the first national park. Dave (46m 47s): Yeah. And it’s the first, right. And you got that whole history Josh (46m 49s): There, right? So yeah, so much history and we’re like the gateway of, of these beautiful places. I mean, Jackson is front and center. We’re, if you drive a hundred miles in any direction, you’re gonna have like unlimited wilderness, you know? Yeah. But then on top of all that, we have an airport, we have amazing nightlife, we have music, we have restaurants, you know, so it really is like one of those incredible places in the west. Yeah. Dave (47m 17s): That is incredible. What is the closest big city to you guys? Bigger city. Josh (47m 23s): So Salt Lake. Dave (47m 24s): Oh, salt Josh (47m 24s): Lake. Yeah. Salt Lake’s about four hours away. Dave (47m 27s): Yeah. Salt Lake. Okay. Nice. Nice. Well, no, I think this is a good way. I just wanted to set the stage today just for, you know, I was thinking Jackson Hole, you know, I think we’ve done a good job of picturing people coming into that area and just, you know, if they don’t know about this spot, you know, obviously it’s already on the map, but, but I’ve got a couple random ones. You’ve kind of got me thinking here. You mentioned music, you know, kind of drink food, stuff like that. Let’s start with a restaurant. Let’s say somebody’s coming through Jackson Hole. What is, is there a place you’d recommend what is, there must be a number of great places, but they’re going out to eat. Where should they head? Josh (48m 2s): Wow. Yeah. There’s this, there’s so many great restaurants here. So I would say, how about we do top three? Dave (48m 8s): Oh, nice. I love it. And Josh (48m 10s): I come from kind of a fine dining background ’cause my dad was a chef. Oh wow. And so I’m gonna do fine dining. Perfect. So if you’re looking for like a beautiful date night or a celebration, number one would be, now let’s start with the third. Dave (48m 25s): Okay. Yeah, let’s do top three down. Josh (48m 27s): Okay. Top three. So I would say trio. Dave (48m 30s): Trio? Josh (48m 31s): Yep. Trio. And then after that I would do the kitchen and then probably the top restaurant out here would be the Snake River Grill. Dave (48m 40s): Okay. Snake River Grill. Josh (48m 42s): Yep. Dave (48m 43s): Okay. And what’s the, what type of food is that? Josh (48m 45s): You know, it’s like an American sort of pub. It’s, it’s, but it’s like elevated, it’s really quality local food, local farms. And then the kitchen, I guess would be maybe a little bit more like sushi. And then Snake River Grill would be like steaks. Dave (48m 60s): Yeah, steaks, you Josh (49m 1s): Know. Perfect. Dave (49m 2s): That’s it. Yeah. You gotta have some stakes out in that country. Josh (49m 5s): Oh Dave (49m 5s): Yeah. Yeah. Good. Okay. So we got some, we got a few restaurants. What about the, you mentioned the music. What, what’s that look like? Do you, do you have some, are there some events that you are, that are out there? There’s, are there other, or will you listen to for music? Yeah, Josh (49m 19s): I mean we have like tons of music here. There’s there any given night at the Cowboy Bar, there’s a live band, Teton Village on Sunday nights, all summer long, has free concerts. And then at the top of Snow King is a relatively new venue, but there’s all sorts of music up there. So it’s cool because you have to take the gondola up there. Dave (49m 41s): Oh, nice. Josh (49m 41s): Yeah. And the food trucks actually drive along the, the cat tracks the switchbacks all the way up to the top of Snow King, huh? Yeah, so I mean, I saw Old Crow Medicine show up there. Oh, nice. Yeah, Dave (49m 55s): There you go. Josh (49m 56s): Yeah, it’s an amazing place. I mean, we definitely have plenty of visitors here and there’s loads to do. I mean, whitewater rafting, horseback riding, hiking, wildlife tours, photography tours, fishing tours, hunting, you know, kayaking, hunting, you name it, there’s tons to do out here. Yeah. Dave (50m 13s): And lots of camp. Yeah. It’s pretty much everything. Camping, you know, with the national parks and you kinda, you name it. That’s cool. Well I think this has been a, a good, a good summary of kind of what you have going, what, what if, if somebody wanted to get a trip, it sounds like you’re pretty booked up. I and Scott has some other guides. When do you think is a good time to be looking at, you know, hitting the river up there? Josh (50m 35s): So kind of what I mentioned at the beginning of this podcast was my favorite time is probably, you know, if you can get here before the crowds, like late March into April. The other thing about that time of year is the guides aren’t burnt out yet, you know? Yeah. After a long summer it, it gets pretty tiring. But like early season before runoff, runoff usually starts when the snow melts like mid May, early May, and then the rivers are high and off color for a good month. Dave (51m 7s): For a month. So are you guys taking a break? What’s going on in that month? Josh (51m 11s): Well, luckily all, all the lakes start to thaw. Dave (51m 13s): Oh, okay. So, Josh (51m 15s): And there are some tailwater like right, right below the dam we still fish the snake, but a lot of the snow and upper elevation ice is definitely starting to melt. So that’s kind of when we start hitting lakes. So there’s always an experience out here. Yeah. I mean you could even, you could even come out here in February And we could, we could get a pair of snowshoes for you And we hike into the river. I mean there’s experiences all year, you know, so Dave (51m 41s): Yeah. So it’s pretty open I guess depending on your time, you know, if, I guess if you’re coming up with the family whenever you’re coming up for your vacation, you know, that might be a time you can check in and see what you guys have open. Exactly. Josh (51m 52s): Yeah. The best time to fish is whenever you’re able. Dave (51m 55s): Yeah, when you have time. Exactly. That’s the thing about fly fishing is that, yeah, sometimes you can’t choose exactly the date, but, but this has been awesome Josh. I think, like you said, we’ll we’ll send everybody out to Grand Teton fly fishing if they wanna check in with you or with Scott or anybody else and get some information there. Just wanna thank you for your time today. This has been great. Love the stories we’ve talked about getting into Cuba and some of the other Tahiti and some of that stuff has been great. So yeah, I’m looking forward to staying in touch with you this year and yeah, we’ll, we’ll definitely keep in touch. Josh (52m 25s): Awesome. Thanks a lot Dave. Thanks for having me on man. Dave (52m 30s): Call to action today if you’re interested in checking in, if you’re gonna be out in that neck of the woods, grand Teton, national Parks, Yellowstone, anywhere out there, check in with Josh, check in with Grand Teton, fly fishing and find out if they have availability. I think not only streams but some of that Lake Steelwater stuff would be pretty cool. All right, before we get outta here, a couple for more things. Apple podcast, Spotify, or whatever app you’re on listening Right now. If you click that plus button and follow the show, you’re gonna get that next one delivered to your inbox and, and you don’t wanna miss out on the next week’s episode as we’ve got Tommy Lynch back on the podcast. This is one of our biggest streamer episodes of all time. A couple, almost three years back. We’re bringing him back on for round two and Tommy’s gonna get back into it with three as we go deep on a bunch of amazing topics. Dave (53m 16s): He’s Tommy’s out in the Michigan area, one of the big streamer guys around the country. You don’t wanna miss that one. So follow the show and you’ll get updated when that comes out. Alright, I’m outta here. It’s late. No it’s not. Not late in the evening. It’s actually early in the evening, but I think it might be a late night tonight. So if you are having a late night tonight, or maybe it’s morning or maybe it’s afternoon, wherever it is, whatever time it is, wherever you are in the world, I appreciate you for sticking in all the way to the very end here and I hope to talk to you and connect with you online somewhere as we go. Thanks again. Talk to you soon.