738 | Jim Teeny on Sinking Fly Lines – Spotting Fish, Teeny Nymph, Legendary Catches

Dave (2s): One of the first sinking lines to really up the game was created by Jim Teeny back in the 1980s. Jim’s techniques were revolutionary in the fly fishing space, and sometimes even controversial from, I spot him, I got ’em to throwing rocks at fish. There’s no question that Gyms legacy still lasts today. And we’ve got Jim back on the podcast to share some more stories and provide the best tips on fly fishing all around the world so you have more quality time on your waters this year. This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, And what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. Hey, I’m Dave host of the Web Fly Swing podcast. Dave (42s): I’ve been fly fishing since I was a little kid. I grew up around the Little fly shop, which we talk about today, and created one of the largest fly fishing podcasts in this country. Jim Teeny of the Teeny Nymph line company. The founder is a big influence in here today to talk sinking lines, talk about some stories. We’re gonna find out how he hunts steelhead. We’re gonna hear about this crazy permit story that came from Bruce Chard. Amazing last chance permit on the Fly. We’re gonna find out about this 250 pound tarpon that was caught by Jim Billy Pate, lefty cray. So much more. Jim’s a wealth of knowledge. This is gonna be an awesome one. Plus you’re gonna hear a few emotional stories as well. Dave (1m 22s): About one about his father’s death in 1979, back when I was four years old. I remember it. I remember hearing the stories. His dad was crossing the, the river and got swept up, And he tells that whole story about that day and how that all came down. So a good reminder for all of us on this episode today. So I am lucky to call Jim a good friend here he is, Jim tini@jimtini.com. How you doing, Jim? Jim (1m 50s): Doing good, Dave, thank you so much. It’s always great to connect with you. Dave (1m 55s): Yeah, it is, it is. It’s always good. We’ve had, now this will be our third episode. We had one way back in 2018 where we kind of got the, you know, the background on you. We did a little one on Chinook last year, and now we’re gonna jump into another update and talk Steelhead. I think I wanna talk about spotting Phish, and you know, that thing I think was a big part of what you did, and you were known for as well as obviously the sinking lines and teeny nif company and stuff like that. But maybe just gimme an update. What’s new with you, you know, in the last year? Talk about what you have going. Jim (2m 25s): Well, you know, you know, Dave, my wife Donna and I, we’ve been working our business now 53 and a half years, and we both kind of came to the point where we’d either like to sell our brand name or sell our business and maybe help out whoever has interest and move away from that and go to hosting groups and trips and friends and people to a lot of the destinations that we’ve been at through the years. And I’ve been doing that for years. But now that’s the direction that we’d really like to go. Dave (3m 0s): Yep, exactly. And some of those trips are trips that you’ve been to before, right? Argentina, Alaska. Do you wanna give us a little rundown on, on what you have going there? Jim (3m 9s): Oh, sure. You know, well, I’ve been like, I go up every year to Alaska with Dave Duncan and Son’s Outfitters. And last year went with our grandson, Garrett, Garrett Stoffer. And at the end of the trip last year, we had so much fun. We caught kings, chum, sockeye, everything, you know, he said to Brad Duncan, he goes, put me down for next year. So, so we’re going to get this year. I mean, it was, honestly, it was great. It’s just so nice to be able to be hanging with, with one of your grandkids. Right. And so it’s, it’s been a great deal. And then I’ve got a really big group and I’m getting ready. Jim (3m 49s): I’ve actually started packing, and I know I’m three weeks early. Hmm. But we’re going down March 3rd and we’re going for Golden Dorado, and then Giant rainbow trout, and then the sea run brown trout all in one trip. Wow. So we’re going to, going to Argentina, and then we’ll end up in Chile. Geez. And it’s all the places I’ve been before, but it’s really a dream trip. I, If you ever wanted, If you had a bucket list trip, I don’t know if there’s, could be better than, you know, doing all of of those things. Right. Dave (4m 23s): That’s amazing. Jim (4m 24s): I get back on on March 24th, and on April 7th there’s a, a big group of us, and we’re going to Tarpon v Lodge in Costa Rica, and we’re gonna be fishing for Tarpon Jax Nook and Mahi mahi, and probably some other subspecies too. But that’s gonna be an adventure. We’re excited to go down there. We’re going a couple days early and stay a day later So we can, you know, see the culture and the people and, and enjoy Costa Rica. Dave (4m 54s): Wow, that’s amazing. So do you, now, as you get into these, is it a lot harder to do some of these trips, or are you still, like, is it all just fun for you doing the travel and everything? Jim (5m 4s): You know what, I really, I, I love it. I mean, thank God I’m still, you know, I’m feeling good and to do with no physical, you know, handicaps or anything like that. So I enjoy, I really enjoy people and being around them and sharing, you know, what I’ve learned or learning from them or, you know what I’m saying? The whole aspect of the trip is from beginning to end for me, is it’s an adventure. Yeah. Dave (5m 31s): What do you think is the key to a successful hosted trip? Right? Because you’re bringing these people around on that are spending good money on their, what, over the years, what would be your tip to tell somebody to have the success if they wanted to host trips? Jim (5m 43s): Well, you know, I think timing is really important. I mean, so whenever I think about, okay, well, we should go do this, I always think of the timing. We don’t wanna be too early, don’t wanna be too late. That is a real big key factor. And then there’s a lot of excitement and just the preparation, you know, talking with people and email, texting and, and crc them and, and planning of your actual trip. And then when you get there, we usually have really nice dinners at the lodges and stuff like that. And I do my best to rotate around so that, that maybe at least one given day that we could spend a day, you know, I could spend a day with someone else and, and then rotate and that, and that’s kind of fun. Jim (6m 27s): Yeah. But we all share the story photos and, you know, it’s really, honestly, you become like a family. Everybody’s got everybody’s back, and we’re all in a, in a good place. Dave (6m 37s): That’s amazing. Cool. Well, we’re gonna jump into Steelhead in a bit. I wanted to just give people that are maybe new, haven’t heard, didn’t hear you on that last episode, talk about your background, maybe talk about teeny NPHs and kind of the company and, and the lines, because that’s a big part of what your contribution was. I mean, there’s been a lot, but the lines, you know, you back in the seventies, eighties, coming out with those sinking lines like today, I think, and Bruce Chard, and a lot of people have mentioned this on the podcast that, you know, were everybody’s to thank you because you came up with that idea early. But talk about that. Where did that first line, why did you come up with that idea of that sinking line? Where did that come from? Jim (7m 15s): Well, many, many years back, Howard West used to be in charge of scientific anglers, and he wanted to come out to the West Coast and fish with me. And so, and then at that time, we had a rep, Ben Silk Netter was representing our company. So Howard came out, we went fishing, it was in the wintertime. And at the end of the trip, you know, we only, I, and we caught maybe two to three steelhead in about, I don’t know, two or three days of fishing, which really wasn’t, we didn’t light the water up, but we did get a few. Yeah. And Howard then said, at the end of the trip, he says, well, Jim, he says, what do you think of our sinking lines? Jim (7m 58s): And I says, well, I said, to be honest with you, your high speed, high lines are the best, but they’re not good enough. I said, If you want to fish our bigger rivers with more, you know, volume and more current and flow, I said, you need a line that’ll sink two to three times faster than the lines that we were fishing. And he went back And he listened to me, and the very first deep water express lines were made in shooting heads. And he sent them to me. And of course, I cut three feet off of the, the tip end, so there was no taper on either one, so they sink evenly. Jim (8m 42s): So then I had a 24 foot instead of 30 foot shooting head, I had a 24. And then I married that to a level floating line, and it tripled my fish hookups. Absolutely. Huh. I mean, I, I could in, in water and currents where it was just, it was perfect to get your fly down to the level where the fish were, especially like in the winter time. Yeah. You know, although it works well in the summer also if you’re in some of the deep slots and currents and things like that. But it was, it allowed me to fish with more confidence knowing that, Hey, I’m making good cast, good presentations. The only problem I had, the rig that I had was that I had that knot or splice. Jim (9m 26s): That’s the reason that I, back in 1983, introduced the, our T series lines, you know, like 200, three hundreds, four hundreds, because they were all one piece and they were the original lines of their type, you know, integrated the floating and the sinking were all married together, all one piece. And so there was no knot, no hinging. And I had it color coded so that us as anglers could really see where the balance point of the line was at the end of your rod tip. And you could roll it to the surface, single false gas and shoot it out there. And they just went out like rockets and they still do today. Jim (10m 9s): Right. So that’s kind of the whole concept and through the time and everything and why I did these out of a necessity for all of us. Because, you know, If you ever had a knot or splice and sometimes you pulled it in too close, it might hang up on one of your guides. Yep. You know, so then you always had to make sure, hey, it’s gotta be beyond my rod tip. But we’ve eliminated any of the problems like that. Dave (10m 33s): Yeah. That’s gone. Wow. And so at the time in the eighties when you came out with the T series, were there other sinking lines out there? Jim (10m 40s): No, GLA glading Glen l Evan was the first sinking line that I ever fished. And they were really good, but it was a full sinking line. Nobody really had the concept of doing floating, sinking type and shooting, you know what I mean? Yeah. And then, then scientific anglers eventually came out with a sinking line, but not, not doing the job that we were all hoping for. I think. Yeah. I mean, it would work, but it wasn’t as efficient as getting down deep. And then the, and the waters and the ledges and the things like that. I mean, they’re pretty nice lines and people that have used them through the years, they come back and they say, man, these are, they, we’ve tried the other lines, but we come back to yours, Jimmy, you know, ’cause I scientifically really thought the lines out, put ’em together so that we all as anglers would have better casting experience and fishing experience. Dave (11m 40s): Nice. Well, maybe let’s take it to the river and just be thinking about, so if somebody, let’s say they have, you know, one of the T series lines, and maybe talk about how you would do it. You know, If you come up to a new water, were you looking for kind of smaller water? Talk about that. Maybe choose a, a type of water and tell us how you, because I spot ’em, I got ’em. Right. It was a big tagline that we, we saw a lot. So talk about that. How would you do that? How would you spot these fish? Was it always the similar thing on no matter where the river was, or talk about that. Jim (12m 8s): Well, you know, my first pair of polarized glasses, I got ’em years ago from Norm Thompson Outfitters in downtown Portland. I don’t believe that they’re still around, that I know of. But any, I got ’em. And they had a little shade over them, and they were really cool and they worked really well. But polarized glasses are the single biggest advantage that any angler has when he is fishing over the fish and maybe other, other fishermen. So I just love to be able to walk around and, and look in the water and see the, where there’s no fish. And then maybe, oh, wait a minute, that’s a little deep cut over there and I can’t quite see it, so maybe they’re over there. Jim (12m 49s): That to me is like hunting. Hmm. You know, I am hunting for the fish, and then when I’m archery hunting, I’m hunting for the elk or the deer. They’re very similar, you know, and stocking, you know, like you’re stocking your fish. But I found that like, just an example, like a line like our T 300 is probably as versatile a line for steelhead and salmon as there is, because it’ll load up and work on a seven, but works ideal on an eight, nine, all the way up to a 10 weight rod. So you could take that one line and you could use it on multiple rods If you had a couple. And then another thing is what we do when we we’re fishing for steelhead in moving water, we fish a short liter, and it, normally it’s around four feet, but we may go down to three or two, we may go up to five. Jim (13m 41s): But normally it’s, you don’t have to measure it. You’re not gonna take a ruler out, say, oh, it’s four feet. Exactly. But what it does is when you got your line sinking and going down, the short leader takes your fly down quicker. And then you have a longer period of time when you are exactly in the zone you’re going through, you’re drifting than you’re swinging, you know, at the tail end. And it’s so, it’s so deadly effective. It really balances out to the, the fact when you’re thinking it’s presentation. And the better you can do your presentation, the more fish you’re gonna hook. Yeah, Dave (14m 18s): Exactly. When you’re fishing, let’s say the T, and what is the difference that between the T 100, 200, 300? Jim (14m 24s): Well, it’s the grains, it’s the ton that’s impregnated into the coating. There’s a T one 30, a T two, a hundred, 300, 400. We used to have a 500, but not everybody’s got, all the people are really gung-ho on that. Yeah. Gosh. I mean, years back. And I still get calls and we used to have a line that I, I named the chuck and duck. Oh, right. And that line was so deadly in the right water, but it’s, it never, it was never a good casting line. You could just roll it out there, but it wasn’t made for long distance casting. So maybe up to 40 feet. But when you had really deep water and you wanted to get that fly down, there was, it was like adding split shot on your liter. Jim (15m 10s): Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. So that’s kind of the reason, David, I’m really, I’m, I’m glad that I’m thinking about it now. The reason that I designed the T series and the Ts series was so that you didn’t have to use split shot. You could just take the line short leaders, you could do normal casting. You didn’t have to worry about hitting your fly rod with a split shot. Yeah. You know, maybe make a fracture. Right. Something like that. So I tried to simplify, make everything easier for all of us. Gotcha. Dave (15m 42s): So If you had the T 300, you’re in the right conditions with the water, how would you fish? Maybe talk about the fly you would put on there for steelhead and how you would fish that. Would you be swinging that? Would you be casting across? Talk about that a little bit. Jim (15m 55s): Well see, normally I think my style might be a little bit different because I normally would quarter cast upstream, and then I’d let it sink and drift and then swing through to the tail out. But if, when I did that, if I didn’t think that I was getting down enough and I was kind of racing through, I would make my cast and then immediately throw a mend, like an upstream mend to take the tension off the line. ’cause once you do that, your line is sinking so much quicker without any tension on it. And then that way you can take a line and then, you know, throw it quartering upstream, throwing it straight out, throwing it quartering, downstream. Jim (16m 35s): That’s the thing that we found that they work in all those elements and all those different ways of presenting fish. But when you get back to spotting them, then I always tried to keep fish in my sight. And it’s like sometimes, oh, there they are, there’s a group, there’s five or six over there. And then I wouldn’t wa I wouldn’t walk or go or wait out to another spot where I couldn’t see them. And then I would fish the water. I would keep them in my site so I could see what I was doing. And if I was moving the fish, if they were moving downstream, they were moving upstream, or they were just holding, and if they were holding, then I had a really good chance at hooking those. Jim (17m 15s): That’s where I, if I spot ’em, I got ’em. Came up. Dave (17m 21s): Grand Teton Fly Fishing is a premier guide service and fly shop that has access to some of the most coveted rivers and lakes in Western Wyoming. Their simple goal is to share their valued resource and have you experience a native cutthroat trout rising to a single dry fly in the shadows of the Tetons. You can check out Grand Teton right now at Grand Teton fly fishing.com. Let them know you heard of them through this podcast. Since 19 72, 4 wheel campers has been building tough, lightweight campers, designed to fit almost any truck. Whether you’re after something minimal like me with the Project M or looking for a fully equipped camper ready for your next off-grid adventure. Four wheel campers has a solution for every outdoor enthusiast. Dave (18m 1s): You can head over to four wheel campers.com right now and use the builder tool to see which topper slide in or flatbed is ideal for you. What is the tip on spotting fish? So If you have your polarized glasses, you’re looking in, how do you, ’cause sometimes, right, it’s almost like you’re on the flats and people that are new to saltwater. Right? It’s hard to get that figured out. What would be your tip there to spot steelhead? Jim (18m 23s): Well, to spot steelhead if they’re fresh. So that means they’re real silver, bright, they’re harder to see. So you’re kind of almo, they almost look like ghosts out there in the water. So what I, you know, the, the top of the back will be darker. And then of course the sides, they blend in. But then you see, you’ll either see like a mouth opening and closing, or you’ll see a form or a silhouette, and then you’ll see the tail. And the tail will be slowly moving back and forth. So you look for kind of parts of a fish. I mean, sometimes you can see the whole fish, sometimes you just, maybe you’ll be looking in the water and then you’ll see a, a big flash when you say, well, then you study it. Jim (19m 7s): But also the surface of the water. Sometimes it’s kind of, you know, a little upset where you can’t really quite, then all of a sudden there’s a window, here comes a window down, you look down, oh, there they are. And so then, you know, and you can see them. And that’s pretty cool. Yeah. You know, and then I’ve learned that steelhead, they can take the fly so soft and so can big king salmon. Mm. They can take it so soft that you don’t even really, you think, well, I might be just hung up on something, they can pick it up and drop it before, you know. So you really, when I like to do, I love to Dave is make my cast my rod level with the water, follow my line with my rod tip. Jim (19m 49s): I’m more direct from my fly to the, you know, to the line, to my hand and, and everything. And I can feel better when I’m like that a lot better. Being more direct is just better. And then also, when you get that strike or you feel that fish, you can set the hook quite well. Dave (20m 7s): That’s right. So you’re just tight pretty much when you’re swinging it through, you’re tight on. So If you feel any little touch or movement or something like that, you’re setting the hook. Jim (20m 16s): Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it can be a rock, a leaf, a limb or whatever, but, but If you fish a little bit nervous when you’re fishing, I think you’re gonna ultimately hook more fish. That’s Dave (20m 28s): Right. That’s right. Awesome. And I remember, and this is, this is not a steelhead trip, but I, I was just talking to Bruce Char recently, And he told the story about you guys were out on a boat in down, I think it was in Florida, and it was, I think it was dark, the middle of the night. And, and you were trying to get outta there, but you, you said, Hey, gimme one more cast. I’m gonna catch a permit right here. Which was like, almost impossible. And you, and you did, did you remember that? Jim (20m 52s): Oh, I, I’ve never forgotten it. It was, it was, I was with Roger Glassby and myself and Bruce, and we were night fishing at the Bridges down in the Florida Keys. And we fished about four hours. And then, you know, you get tired. And we had jumped Roger and I that evening while in the dark. We had jumped, I think 17 tarpon. And I got one different fish before that. But then we were all tired. And I remember, this is exact, and I’m gonna tell you exactly nice. Bruce said to me, it was slack tied. Now around the bridges. He goes, homie, he says, why don’t you make this your last cast? Jim (21m 33s): And I says, okay. I says, wouldn’t it be great to end the day with a nice permit? Now at this point, I’ve never caught a permit in my life. I swear. Wow. Ever. And I just threw that out there. And he looks at me And he goes, what did you say? I said, wouldn’t it be great to end this day with a nice permit? So I made my cast, my line was sinking, I started to bring it back. I got a take. Well, we all assumed it was gonna be another tarpon, and it was about a 10 pound permit, I swear to God. Wow. Bruce went nuts. He couldn’t believe it. He goes, oh my God. Oh my God. He goes, it’s a permit. Jim (22m 14s): Wow. But to call the shot, I mean, I was just horsing around. Wow. You know what I mean? But it, but you never know. Dave (22m 21s): You never know. That’s why fishing. Right. Isn’t that why fishing’s great. You, you never know. You just gotta keep doing it. Jim (22m 27s): Yeah. And he said today, he says they had, and when he continued to do some night fishing, that nobody had ever taken a another permit. Dave (22m 35s): No way. Was that on, because you fished the teeny nin a lot. Right. Maybe you can describe that, but was that on the teeny NPH that night? Jim (22m 42s): That’s all I fished. I haven’t fished anything else since I started our business in, in 1971. Really? Dave (22m 49s): What, what color was that fly? Jim (22m 51s): That would’ve been a, like a antique gold, you know, like the natural Yeah, kind of. But I’ve been, I was just, you know, it was just like, I don’t know, it was just kind of pretty amazing really that, and it ended up, So we got some pictures of it and then put it back. But what a way to end. We had such a good day. I mean, or night, you know, as long as the tide is falling, you know, then they’re there. The carpenter there and, and I’m sure Bruce probably explained to you when it doesn’t have to be in the dark. It’s just whenever it’s leaving the, the Gulf going out to the ocean, then there’s a huge current going through the bridges. Jim (23m 32s): And then the bait fish line up, and then the tarpon line up to feed on the Bain fish and the sharks line up to feed on the tarpon. Wow. That’s kind of how it is. Wow. Dave (23m 43s): That’s great. Did you do quite a few, maybe talk about that, your travels. I mean, you’ve, did you do a lot of trips out there with Bruce around Florida? I mean, it sounds like you’ve kind of been everywhere. Jim (23m 53s): Well, one time when Donna was managing the Andro Island Bonefish Club in The Bahamas, I went down with Bruce and I stayed, and I fished with him for three weeks. He just, yeah. And then, but one of the things for me, the highlight is that my first tarpon that I ever got, and I think it was either 1980 or 1981, was with Billy Pate. Mm. Dave (24m 16s): Wow. Jim (24m 16s): Billy friend Steve and I Yep. And went out and there was about an 80 pounder, a lone fish coming. And one of the boats said, Hey Billy, there’s a fish coming. He’s swinging wide. And I remember Billy said to me, he said, Jimmy, he says, it’s a long cast, you think you can make it? I says, I know I can try. Yeah. You know what I mean? Right. And I don’t, I put it out there. It was perfect. And it was a, it was a, a black teeny leach. And that sucker just nailed it. And I got him, it was about an 80 pound fish, but it was my first tarpon. And I’m honored to have gotten that with Billy. Dave (24m 53s): Yeah. And who was Billy Pate? We’ve heard that name before. We know he’s a famous person, but what was his, you know, connection to the fly fishing? Jim (25m 3s): Oh, he was pretty much legendary. Like Stu Apt. Yeah. The two of those. And then Lefty Craig, they did a lot of saltwater fishing for Bill Fish. And, and, and Billy had his home in is Islam Marada in the Florida Ke. And he, he’s passed away now, but he, how I originally met him was a friend called from like Denver, Colorado, Chris Christensen, and said, Hey, I got a friend here. I’d like to come and steal head fish with you. I didn’t know Billy or anything like that, but I said, well, you know, I says, yeah. And I talked to Billy and I, and I said, well, come on out. So I took him up to the, we went to the Washugal and then we went to the Palama and we did really well. Jim (25m 48s): And then he wanted to go to the Deschutes. And I was archery hunting. It was kind of like in the, you know, the beginning of September type. And I, my friend Steve Dorn, and I said, Steve got a guy here. Billy paid, he’s from Florida, would really like to go to the Deschutes. So Steve had a jet sled. So Steve took him up there and then late he, Billy goes, well, I’d like to have you boys come on down for some tar. You know, so, yeah. You know, we didn’t really hardly know what a tarpon was. Right. You know, and I’m trying to, I’m trying to make this short. Sure. So one Saturday, Steve and Lynn, they’re home. They’s got TV on and American Sportsman comes up. Jim (26m 29s): She goes, honey, you remember that guy you took fishing for Jimmy on the de shoot says, yeah, he is gonna be here And he, he is gonna be on And he is gonna be tarping fishing. So Steve sat down, watched Billy Pate tarpon fishing, and this is the best part of the whole story. He calls me up and all I got to say was, hello. And he goes, I just watched Billy Pate tarpon fishing on American Sportsman. I’m calling him. We’re going. And he hung up. Yeah. Dave (27m 3s): That was it. That was it. Jim (27m 5s): And So we did that three years with Billy. I mean, you know, one year down to the Keys. And then two years at Homo Hasta Springs. Gotcha. The big target. Dave (27m 15s): Oh, right. The big ones. Yeah. The homo. And that was the, ’cause we’ve had some episodes on that too. The, that history of the collapse of, of the tarpon down there. Right. Because they had that, all the fishing and the killing. Right. Do you remember, was that before your time when that whole thing went on? Jim (27m 29s): Well, you know, I mean, I think when we first went down there, you could actually, you know, kill a tarpon If you wanted to. Now they’re protected. Yeah. Which I think is great. Yeah. I did jump a monster tarpon and fought him for four hours, 35 minutes. Hmm. And I wrote about it in my book, fly Fishing Great Waters. Oh yeah. The story. And I don’t know if we talked about that before, but, but we chased him between six and seven miles. I got him to the boat twice. And our guide, then he tried to gaff the fish. ’cause I didn’t know we were still, it was like 1981 or two or something like that. Jim (28m 12s): And I, I mean, we’re just fishing with him. So, but he met twice with the gaff, but he did have the gaff out there. And he says, look, he says it’s as long as the gaff and the gaff was eight feet. Wow. And so two other guides quit and just followed us around, you know, and they all, every time that fish would come up, they all said, that’s a 250 pound fish. And that one I took on antique gold bleach. Really? Oh God. It was so exciting that fish tried to come out of the water like two or three times, but it could only come out about halfway and just kind of breach. You know what I mean? It couldn’t make a full jump. But man, was it strong. Jim (28m 52s): Wow. And so at the very end, you know, he asked me, ’cause I jumped it at four and it was 8 35. And he says, he asked me to break it off ’cause it was getting dark. Gonna get dark. And we had to go up the homeless acid channel. Right Rick. And I said, I says, this is the greatest fish of my life. Let me bring him one more time to the boat. I brought him right to the boat, broadside floating with us. Not even up there, just, just floating along. He’s got the lip gaff, he’s laying down. And prior to that, he took all his clothes off except his shorts, his watch, his shoes, his shirt and everything. And I asked, what are you doing? Jim (29m 32s): And he said, well, if I stick him, he is gonna pull me in. Huh. And there’s no way I can hang on. So I, I know he was afraid of the fish. I, I mean, there’s no doubt about it. So now he’s got the leader hand. I stripped all my line off, you know, to take the tension off the rod. I was done. And Steve and I are hollering, get him, Rick, get him. And I think he just froze for probably close to half a minute. And that fish just floating and from the head of the fish to where he had the leader was probably about a foot to maximum 18 inches. It was, he was there. Yeah. And then, then the fish eventually, after about half a minute, got upright and started to go around the front of the boat and the leader got in the trim and all Rick said to him, he says, well, he is gone. Jim (30m 16s): Let’s go. Oh, wow. That was his word. Wow. But I caught him. You caught him. Caught him, I mean, by legal. Yeah. Yeah. When the guy gets to leave the hand and another thing. But it was such a big fish. Dave (30m 27s): Wow. So 250 pounds, how does that compare? How many of those fish? I mean, that was it, that the whole, that whole down in that area, that’s where they were going for. Right. The biggest tarpon in the world. That’s where you could find him. Oh. Jim (30m 37s): They wanted to found her. And when we got back to the house, Billy said, Jimmy had you had, had landed that fish and brought it in, he said, you’d have sent all of us home. Dave (30m 48s): No Jim (30m 48s): Kidding. That’s what he said. That’s what Billy told me. And I, and, and, but in my heart, I know I got him. I fought him. I, and I only had 15 pound was my weakest spot. Dave (31m 0s): 15 pound was Jim (31m 1s): 15. Yeah. I mean, I honestly, I did really good. Dave (31m 5s): Yeah. Right, right. And Tarpon was, that was fun. Right. That was a species that for forever still probably. Right. Is is your one of your top species out there? Jim (31m 14s): Well, you know what, it’s my favorite game fish. I, and Billy ruined me on that. And, and, and then of course then I started and I hooked up with Bruce Chard. And we had so much fun. I’m being honest to God. I mean, I could tell you story after story, but we rocked him. Right. I mean, the most we ever did any given four hour session was jumping 18 tarpon. But know that when you jump that many tarpon, you don’t land 18 tarpon. ’cause they, you got the bridges, the barnacles. And I can one, one time with Clay Ron, the time we jumped 18, the first night we went out, we had five day session. Jim (31m 54s): But the first night they tore us up. I mean, during our five days we lost about seven or eight fly lines broke. Three 12 weight fly rods. And we had a ball. I mean, we were just like, it was holy mackerel. And I remember the first evening when we walked back to our motel, he says, you build the flies, I’ll build the leaders. Right. So, so he beeped up the leaders and then we started getting some of ’em to the boat So we could get ’em in and release them. But it was a great experience, you know? Yeah. Dave (32m 30s): And the teeny NIF is, talk about that a little bit. The T nif, what is the different, there’s a lot of different styles, but essentially it’s just, it’s dyed pheasant tail, right? Jim (32m 39s): Yes. Yes, it is. Now, now I’ve added, not on all our flies, but I’ve added a little bit of crystal flash, or, yeah. I’ll take the tips of the make ’em bigger and, you know, like Golden Dorado, they really like black a lot and, and they’re very aggressive. But it’s amazing that the tarpon, your fly doesn’t have to be huge or overdressed, you know, to get ’em, they, they’ll cruise along and, and I’ve, I’ve learned we’ve got a lot of different colors, but there’s certain colors that work really, really well. Yeah. Like for example, If you were gonna go to the, the Great Lakes Yep. And you were gonna fish steelhead and the browns of our colors, the two colors out of when I think we have 10 or 11 or whatever, but it’s antique gold and ginger. Jim (33m 29s): Those are our two best. And then you go down to South America now, like I’m, I’m going pretty soon, I’m gonna be on the Rio Grande for the sea run browns. And the two colors down there are antique gold and ginger, which the ginger is kind of off white. Those are so deadly. And then when we went to Russia years ago when we were on Camp Chaka for the rainbows, antique gold and ginger. And then the other third one would be insect green. Yeah. Those were the colors. I mean, you know. So I learned, I thought, well, okay, well this is what I’m gonna do, so I’m gonna tie up a bunch. Matter of fact, last night I was tied up more for the trip. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Dave (34m 9s): Nice. Yeah. And, and with steelhead, what’s the color you like for steelhead? For like, out in the, the west? Jim (34m 14s): Well, you know, black is always good. Black insect, green, anti gold and ginger. When those four would be my best. But if it’s, if it’s fresh run, you’re on the, the coastline, whether in Washington or Oregon, sometimes, you know, flame orange or hot pink really is a good one. But consistently, well also purple. Dave (34m 36s): And purple. Yeah. Purple, Jim (34m 38s): Purple comes into play. So we do our flies we’ll. Like, we’ll tie a, a purple and black or purple and pink, you know, we’ll do color combos on some of the flash flies. And those are really good. The leach style’s really good. But If you get low clear water and you can see the fish and they’re spooky, we drop down to the nymphs So we don’t have a tail. Yep. And we use like, sizes, fours and sixes, and just like your kind of trout fishing, that really does get them to not worry about, Hey, you know, is this big sucker coming down here? What is this? You know, here’s this little thing. And oh, maybe I’ll check it out. Dave (35m 17s): Yeah, check it out. Is that when you get the lower, clearer water, are you still doing the same technique with your cast, kind, casting upstream a bit and just swinging it down, getting it on the bottom and swinging it to ’em? Jim (35m 28s): I do, it’s, I take the same technique on high water and medium and low water. It just seems to work. And it gives me a, a variety of different presentations. Dave (35m 41s): What about when you’re fishing? Do you, I mean, you fished the Deschutes, right? It seems like you did a lot more of the winter, steelhead. Did you also do quite a bit of the summer stuff? Jim (35m 51s): I wanna share something with you. Yeah. My dad, I used to go up to the Deschutes River and I would catch crawdads and, and for my dad’s, he was fishing for steel. So one day I was fly fishing and my dad and I, we were in the wagon blast area. Hmm. We were taking a little lunch break and here comes two guys, you know, waiting down, you know, walking down the river. And they asked your dad, Doug, And he was with his father. Oh yeah. And he asked, he says, do you mind if I fish out here? And my dad and I said, no, fine, go right ahead. So your dad, he’s such a great aunt, I’m telling you, he casts out there, made a couple casts, nailed a beautiful steelhead. Jim (36m 35s): Then they just kind of, And he said, thanks. And then he kinda wandered off. I didn’t know who your dad was at the time. Oh, wow. And I always thought to myself, who was that mask man? Dave (36m 46s): Right, right. He comes up again. So this was in, and this was in the wagon blast area? Jim (36m 51s): Yes. Oh yeah. Wagon blast. Dave (36m 53s): Like on the east side or the west side of the river. Jim (36m 56s): We were, let me see, we went on the west side. Dave (36m 58s): Oh, on the west side. Yeah. So you walked up the railroad tracks. Jim (37m 0s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was, it was, that was my first experience. You know, I don’t know If you, well, you probably heard about it, but it was in the, the late seventies. Your dad and I were terrible. We went to the Sandy River for winter, steelhead to put on. Every time we went there, we were putting on clinics for hook and steelhead. Did he share that with you ever? Dave (37m 25s): Oh yeah. I’ve, I’ve heard some of those stories for sure. Yeah. You guys, and when you were doing that, were you, was this before the T series? And what were you doing back then when you were fishing? With my dad, Jim (37m 35s): This was before the T series, So we were using like our, I made shooting heads with running lines, and it was perfect. I mean, but we just had to remember that the, the knot, you know, because I didn’t come out with 83 and our NIPS were just, I can’t tell you. I think Doug and I, in about a maybe a two month period, we probably, I think we caught it was either 93 or 97 steel had we landed. Really? Dave (38m 4s): Were there any guys fly fishing or was it mostly conventional fishing? Jim (38m 7s): Mostly conventional. There were some with bobbers and some not. Most of ’em were just, you know, using lures or bait or whatever. And they weren’t really doing any good at all. And then your dad and I, we’d go down to the lower end of the slaughter hole and wait across, and then we’d go up there and jump up on these rocks, and you’d look out in the water. And honestly, I think there was probably six to 800 steelhead at, at sometimes. I mean, you couldn’t, in some areas you couldn’t even see at the bottom. Geez. It was like, you dream and then it’s better, you know? Wow. But we just had so much, your dad and I, we, we were really good. We were really, we, you know, so I gotta open up the store. Jim (38m 49s): I said, well, let’s go early and we’ll just come back and, you know, and we did whatever we could to have our time on the water. I remember my dad. Dave (38m 58s): That’s amazing. Jim (38m 59s): One day. And just between the two of us, we hooked 32 steelhead. Dave (39m 4s): Wow. So your dad was your influence early? Was your dad, the person that got you into fishing? Got Jim (39m 9s): Me into fishing and got me into hunting. I, I ultimately got him into fly fishing and to archery, you know. Yeah. But, but, you know, no, he absolutely, my first steelhead, my first salmon, my first deer, my first pheasant, my first checker, all with my dad Dave (39m 28s): On Demark Lodge offers a world-class experience with one of the finest rainbow trout and brown trout fisheries in the world. Their family owned and operated. Missouri River Lodge offers comfortable accommodations, delicious homecooked meals and personalized service that make you feel like family days on the water are capped off by appetizers, beverages, dinner and stories on the back deck and around the campfire. Book your stay for an unforgettable fly fishing adventure where memories are made and the fish stories are real. You can head over right now to wet fly swing.com/on DeMar, that’s O-N-D-E-M-A-R-K on DeMar right now to book your magical Missouri River trip. Dave (40m 12s): And didn’t you, I mean, I remember this back again, I was probably a little kid, but I think your dad wasn’t there a tragic, didn’t he have a tragic death or something on the one I I asked this, I’ve never really thought about this, but I’m, my dad, as you know, is I, I, you start to think about this stuff as your parents. Right. My dad is, he’s struggling with some stuff. Right? He’s slowly, yeah. You know, he’s, he’s got some stuff going and, but it reminds me to appreciate Right. But I, I go back to you because I think didn’t something similar or was it on the water with your dad? Yeah, Jim (40m 43s): March 7th, 1979. Well, my dad tried to cross the river, the, the sandy and a float tube and got washed downstream. And it took the next morning, I think there was probably at least 200 people looking for him. And I was just praying that it was on the shore or somewhere, you know, trapped or whatever. But that wasn’t the case. And, and I had my friend Steve Dorn down at, is it called Qubits? I think it is. Dave (41m 13s): Yeah, qubits. Jim (41m 14s): Yeah. Then that’s where we spotted the, from the helicopter, we spotted the float tube. And Steve retrieved it was praying that my dad wasn’t in it, but, And he wasn’t, you know. But then two weeks later, I made four trips up with Dan Hannah’s helicopter, And he, he’s the one that had the rubber up car washes and all that. Oh, Dave (41m 37s): Yeah. Jim (41m 38s): But anyway, Dan said, whenever you just call and we will have the helicopter ready. Well, on my fourth time, yeah, we had revenue just coming up to revenue bridge. And I remember, I, I remember very distinctly did, I asked the Lord to loan me his eyes because I didn’t think that I could spot him on my own. And within probably two to three minutes going up the canyon, I looked down and I saw him. He was in about 10 feet of water. I could see the green waiters. And I told him, he says, there he is. I said, that’s my dad. And the, the pilot and Jack Elin who were in the plane, neither one of them could see it. They didn’t see it. Jim (42m 19s): It was just me. Yeah. Wow. And So we left the plane, then the next day they retrieved my dad. But it was quite a experience. And one of the things I’d like to share with everybody, my dad was my best friend. We were so close, and I’m so lucky that I know that, I just know the relationship that we had was real. I got to take him up three different times to Alaska, you know, before he had the accident buddy out there, that’s fathers and have sons or daughters, man. Spend as much time as you can with them as time goes by. You know? I mean, I got into this industry when I was 25 years old. Dave (42m 59s): What year was that when you got into the industry? Jim (43m 1s): It was July 1st, 1971. Dave (43m 5s): 71. Jim (43m 6s): Yeah. So I was 20. I was like 25. And now I’m, now I’m 79. Right. Dave (43m 11s): Wow. And still going strong, Jim. That’s the cool thing. This is why it’s inspirational for everybody. Right. Because you’re almost 80 years old and you’re still out there doing all these trips and you could still, and you still have the passion. It sounds like, it sounds like that hasn’t left you from since the 1971. Jim (43m 27s): I’m so excited to go on this next trip. I can’t tell you, but I’m also looking forward to going to Costa Rica with, with Donna that we’ve got five couples and a single, and we’ve got the whole lodge. And just to go down there and just to have the trips gonna be really fun. Fun, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I don’t wanna lose. I’m gonna go until I can’t. Dave (43m 48s): Yep, that’s right. Keep going, keep going. This is great. Well, yeah, I mean, this is, I think, like you said, you know, your dad’s, I mean, I’m sure that probably influenced after that moment. Did you think differently about, as looking ahead as far as what you did? Because it wasn’t long when you came out with the T series Right. And all that stuff and things were, were going well, did that change your whole life when that moment happened? Jim (44m 10s): Yes. And, and let me tell you a, a quick story about the T series, the lines. Yeah. When I got a hold of scientific anglers and I said, Hey, I want you to make a spectral line, but I don’t want you to make ’em for yourself or Orvis or anybody else. I just want ’em to my lines. And they said, well, we, well, we could do that, but you have to order a thousand fly lines a year to be private label. That held me. And they were worried, you know, I remember that it held me back, you know, for a little bit. And then I remember talking to Ben Silk Netter, and I says, Ben, I says, you know those lines? Jim (44m 52s): And he says, well, Jim, you gotta buy a thousand lines. Okay. He says, who are you gonna sell ’em to? And I says, well, I know Doug Stewart would take them. He says, so, okay, so Doug, so Doug takes 30, then you’ve got nine 70 lines. And he goes, what? And I says, well, maybe GI Joe’s, you know what I mean? Yeah. And so I didn’t do it. And then I woke up one morning with Donna and I says, I’m gonna do it. I says, and she says, you’re gonna do what? I says, I’m gonna make those lines because there’s a real need for this type of a line for us in fly fishing. I said, and there’s nothing like it out there. And so I went and did a couple of presentations to different clubs and things like that. Jim (45m 34s): And on my, my first year, and I got on my birthday, August 30th is the day that we received the very first line fly lines from scientific anglers. That year I sold almost 4,000 lines. Dave (45m 51s): Oh, wow. So it blew it away. Jim (45m 53s): Oh, it was, that was, that was our kickoff. Dave (45m 56s): Wow. And who bought those lines? Do you know? Like, who bought those? How did you sell ’em? How did you just, you know, there, there’s people out there. I guess 4,000 people wanted them. Jim (46m 4s): Yeah, I think it was like a lot of lodges and, and guides and outfit. Yeah. And then, and GI Joe’s was really a big outlet for us, and they always supported us, you know, for, you know, whatever. And then that was, that part was good. And then just a few, a few shops here and there got wind of our lines. And then on the East coast for stripers and blues, when I came out with the original T series, the original one was only 82 feet, you know? And because I didn’t really feel I had to cast any further, the nap to, you know, to fish. But they all came back and, oh my God, this T 300 is the best line we’ve ever had, but it’s too short. Jim (46m 47s): And so then I went back to the drawing board and made our Ts series where the head is, instead of 24, it was 30 foot, and then the running line was 70. So then ultimately they ended up to be a hundred feet. And then that’s, that’s been the most popular line on the East coast for stripers and blues. Oh, Dave (47m 6s): It has, Jim (47m 7s): Yeah. For years. I mean, that was way back in the beginning. And everybody’s tried to knock me off, but not everybody figured out how to do, do what we did. That’s Dave (47m 16s): Right. Well, isn’t that the thing where, I’ve heard stories about that over the years on the podcast here, where you came out with the first line and then it kind of got, kind of hijacked a little bit. Maybe talk about that. What, because you had this line and you, you have your line company still, but give us a rundown on how that, how that happened, and then where you’re at today with the lines. Jim (47m 35s): Well, you know, you know, I had our line design for about 10 years to myself. I mean, I think people thought, oh, there’s not gonna be that many people gonna fish this sinking line. I mean, floating line number one most popular in fly fishing. But there were applications to this. Like right now, I would never want to go to Alaska just with a floating line. You know what I, I mean, I know our mini tip, how deadly that line is. The little five foot sinker, that’s our favorite line. I mean, that’s the one that we, we use in lakes and, you know, for, you know, trout and we, we, everything we can fish the mini tip with just doesn’t sink like the tea series. Jim (48m 16s): But anyway, doing that, you know, making the, the lines, it just, it was just an introduction. And the people accepted it worldwide. I mean, I can tell you a lot of people, you know, like Brian O’Keefe and Billy Fate, and we had, we had a professional series and we had Bruce Chard, we had Lefty Cray, we had Dave Whitlock, we had Gary La Vonta, and we had Mel Krieger. These were all people that were friends of mine that were the highest in the industry. And I helped them make and design, we had some very special lines that we called our professional series. Jim (48m 58s): And that’s way back. But it was a great era for us. And it was, it was really nice. Now, a lot of, a lot of people are gone now, but my contribution to fly fishing is really big. And I know that, and I’m proud of it. Yeah. And I wanted, I wanted to, I wanted to help all of us, not just me. And it wasn’t just the business, but I wanted to make fly fishing more productive, more enjoyable. And like I remember a lot of the lodges and guides and outfitters, they always would recommend bring a teen ET 200, bring a teen E 300. And because their customers were gonna be able to cast good and hook more fish more consistently and, and made their trip so much better. Jim (49m 43s): I mean, it really was pretty special for that. All of this really worked out. And, and I’m very proud of that. Dave (49m 50s): That is special. Yeah. Yeah. And, and the global influence, like you said, I mean, do you understand that? Do you see some of the influences there around the world? Different techniques, like globally with your, all your products? Jim (50m 2s): Well, let me explain one thing to you. So many years back, I get a call from Lefty Cray. And he goes, Jimmy, I just got back from fishing the Rio Grande River in, in Tier Del Wago for the C run browns. And I was drooling at the mouth because I hadn’t been down there yet. So this would’ve been, you know, prior to 1999. He goes, Jimmy, I had your T 300 and I out fished everybody at the lodge because I could cast to the far bank, which you needed to do. And then he goes on, he’s talking And he goes, he goes, yeah. He says, but Jimmy, he says, the guide would not let me leave. Jim (50m 47s): Take the line. He says he had, he made sure that I had to leave that fly line. And so I, so I said to Lefty, I says, lefty, I says, are you telling me you need another T 300? And he goes, hell yes. He says, said, I won’t go anywhere on any trip, on any place that I go where I do fishing, that I don’t have a T 300. And he goes, it saved my bacon. And on so many trips, I can’t tell you. But that, and that is a true story and that, but I mean, so then I, then I got to go down in 1999 and, and it was just, it’s a great experience, you know, for anybody that, that wants to do some traveling, go on some world class trips, boy Argentina and Chile, they’ve got some great fish. Dave (51m 36s): It’s a good place. Jim (51m 37s): Yeah. Yeah. Dave (51m 37s): They do have some great fishing. What about, is Atlantic salmon, has that ever been a species you’ve been into? Jim (51m 43s): Well, it was in 2011, I got invited to go to Iceland. Dave (51m 47s): Oh, wow. Jim (51m 48s): And I didn’t know what it was gonna, you know, and I thought, oh my God, well, I’m a steelhead salmon fisherman. So I said, the best I can do is I’ve got to, I have got to, I’m gonna fisher just the same way I do. And I went to Iceland Fish, two different rivers. And I used the mini tip, the five foot sinking tip, and I used the T 200 and I landed 27 Atlantic salmon on Oury nips. And those two lines and I shared my rod time, which most people would never do that. I shared my rod time with my two different guides and they landed I think at least another eight or 10 fish on my rod. Jim (52m 32s): And one of the fish that I got in on the Sila River, it’s, I think it’s SELA, the Cila River. Okay. We got it in and we, we linked it and girthed it and it was 25 pounds. Oh wow. And it ended up to be the largest cotton in all of Iceland that year. And, and it was just a beautiful fish. And so that was my introduction, but I just, I, I know they were really on, I knew they were on ginger. They took the antique gold, insect green and black. Not so much. I didn’t, I don’t remember fishing brighter colors, but those colors, you know, and sizes like fours and sixes, not big number twos or you know, like fours and sixes. Jim (53m 15s): That was the ticket. And it was exciting. It was so, I mean, I was in a whole new place I’ve never fished before and being so productive. And it was fun to share the time on my rod with the guides. ’cause it was I, and they said, oh no, no, Jimmy, you don’t wanna do that. I says, well, yes I do. I says, I’m happy. Let me spot for you. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So it was, it was a great experience for me. Yeah. Dave (53m 41s): That’s so cool. Wow. So you’ve got a round, you’ve caught it sounds like. I mean, what is the, do you think the craziest species out there that, you know, you, your flies have hooked out there that you’ve heard of or you’ve done Jim (53m 54s): Well, I don’t, I don’t think this is anything to be consistent with, but I remember years ago this Rob Patterson, he, he was fishing with his dad down on the Miami River And he saw, he saw, I don’t know, it was about a six or seven foot sturgeon move up and just kind of sit out in front of him out there a little ways. And he had our, he had a T 300 and a teen he nip on And he, And he says, Jimmy, he actually took it, you know, And he fought it and got it in there, you know, but he said the hardest part of the battle, trying to hold onto him by the tail when I got him. But, but that’s nothing you can take to the bank. Dave (54m 34s): No, that’s still, that’s crazy. A sturge don’t even think a sturgeon would come up in there into the river, right? No, that’s, that’s amazing. Jim (54m 41s): One of, one of our really big, big like heavy lines is the TS six 50. Donna got a tar, a halibut Oh wow. And a hundred feet water up out of Seward, Alaska. And it was at Slack tile. Her line was straight up and down a hundred feet. That’s pretty cool. Dave (54m 59s): That is cool. That is cool. Are you, now, are your lines, we’ve heard this from people over the years too, asking about, you know, wanting to get these lines right. Are they still out there? What, what do you talk about that and talk about where t nfa, you know, the company is going, moving ahead. Jim (55m 13s): It’s been really difficult to get lines right now, you know, for us, we have a few of the T three hundreds left. We’ve got pretty good stock on like eight, nine weight mini tips, you know, so, but other than that, I mean we’re, we’re, we’re pretty much sold out of a lot of things and it’s just, we’re just hoping that we find that person that really loves the fly fishing and would like to, you know, maybe in invest and, and buy the business and, and we would help ’em. We’ve got so many good lines that we used to have that we don’t have, that we certainly reintroduce again, that would be, they were amazing and yeah, just kind of a transformation for us. Jim (55m 56s): But they can go to like info@jimtini.com and go to our website and then of course, you know, our phone number, my cell phone and business is (503) 709-2032. And then they can direct with us and also, you know, and send us any information or questions and, and then we, we do have, if they have a question, it’s info IN info@jimtini.com and then I’ll, I’ll correspond with everybody doing that, so. Dave (56m 36s): Good, good, good. Yeah, we’ll put those links in the show notes so people, if folks are interested or you know, wanna get the word out, that’ll be awesome. So definitely wanna keep this going. There’s been, you know, obviously now, you know, sinking lines have evolved over the years and you know, there’s also, and then you got the spay game and all that stuff in there, but still, I think single hand rods are still dominating, right? Especially when you talk about streamer, phish, you know, there’s all, all these topics, right? So your lines, what you’re saying is your lines you have today are still gonna work the same as they did back in the seventies, eighties, right? Jim (57m 9s): Absolutely. Yeah. I didn’t really change ’em. The only thing that we’ve done on our, our lines is put factory welded loops at both ends, but now we’re thinking we’re just gonna do it at the tip end. And a lot of, a lot of the old time anglers actually cut the loops off. But the loops are very nice and they do work. It’s, it’s simplified it for like a, a fly shop to sell a fly line, put the backing on, put the line on. It’s kind of help them do thing quicker and easier. But a lot of us are still old school. Dave (57m 44s): Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, let’s, before we get out here, let’s do three quick steelhead tips. This is our, our steelhead tip segment. The, you know, and again, take me back to that person. He’s on the water, maybe fishing for winter, steelhead out there. It could be the Great Lakes, it could be west. But what are you telling that person if they’re struggling to get there into a steelhead, what, what are a few things you’re telling them? Jim (58m 4s): Well, you know, one of, one of the things is I would tell them not necessarily to weigh deep, you know, a lot of times you can ankle deep water if you’re on a smaller piece of water and cover it well, and it’s not because you have test high waiters that you can weigh. You know that deep, right? A lot of times the fish are, are not in that. You’ve gotta be able to learn to read the water and understand the currents and to see that’s one of the big things because a lot of water holds no fish. So you’ve got to really kind of search. And that’s where polarized glasses come in. You know, not safety, just in waiting in eye protection, but also to look into the water and maybe see fish or don’t see fish. Jim (58m 50s): So you move on to another spot until you find them. And another thing is, it’s not how far that you cast in most situations. It’s having line control, being able to, to put it out there, follow your, your line with your rod tip and be tuned into what you’re doing and, and fish kinda like, you’re a little bit nervous, you know, like, okay, I’m, I’m, oh the line stopped there. I wonder what that was. You know, you gotta be careful and If you do all of these things, you know, it’s not always that they take on the swing, but they do. And when they do take on the swing, you know, at the tail end of your drift, those are what I call no-brainers. Jim (59m 34s): ’cause they grab it, they Dave (59m 35s): Grab it, right? Jim (59m 35s): The ones that when you’re casting and you’re line sinking and it’s drifting along, there’s a lot of fish that will pick up your fly then. And a lot of people don’t even detect that. They miss those strikes. And so watch your line. I just always love to watch my line and, and just have that inner thought with, okay, what’s it doing now? And, and if it hesitates you set up and you might have the fish of a lifetime on Dave (1h 0m 3s): Those are perfect. Awesome, Jim. Well, and your glasses, are you still wearing the same i I picture the old glasses, they were kind of the, the cool, you know, style. Do you still have the same or do you have new glasses out there? Jim (1h 0m 13s): Well, it got new glasses. The original glasses that I had are TE locators. They were made by Bolan, France and, and then new eventually came in and then they didn’t wanna sell ’em to anymore. But I will tell you, at one time in our peak in the seventies when we had the glasses, we, I made one order for 8,000 pairs of glasses. Dave (1h 0m 36s): No kidding. Jim (1h 0m 38s): And now we don’t sell any, I mean, so I, this thing’s changed, you know? I know, but it’s all good. And, and I just want you to know, Dave, I so, so enjoy talking with you and your family and you’ve done a lot for our sport. Doing these podcasts are really nice and, and it really, it really does get the word out and just how much fun the fishing end of it is Dave (1h 1m 3s): Exactly. No, we’re doing the same thing. We’re not, you know, quite at your level yet as far as the travel. But we have a program where we’re going around and we’re actually giving away trips to, you know, and doing some program. And it’s cool because I look up on my wall right here on at my desk and they have this picture. It’s kind of cool. It’s the only photo I have of my dad’s old shop. And I gotta send this to you because you just sent me a couple photos of my dad. And by the way, I asked my brother about one of them you sent was this amazing, I think my dad was in his mid forties and he’s holding up a steelhead. And I asked my brother like, how old was he? He’s like, oh, he was probably in his early forties and you could just see it. It’s crazy to see, right? Because now you know, you, you guys are closer to 80. But, but I got a picture on my wall. It’s the shop and there’s probably about 40 people in the old shop and you’re sitting up there in front doing a presentation. Dave (1h 1m 44s): Everybody’s around watching. Do you remember that when you used to do those clinics? Because that was a big thing, you know, you were a big name, you came into the shop and helped my dad. Do you remember those days? Jim (1h 1m 54s): I do remember. And your dad, your dad always put on the best clinics. I mean, honestly, he, he had quite a following, I mean, you know of, and it was pretty special. I remember him on palsy, you know? Yeah, Dave (1h 2m 9s): Palsy. Yep. Jim (1h 2m 10s): Yeah, yeah, it was, it was really cool. Those are great memories for me too. I’d love to get a, a copy of that. Dave (1h 2m 17s): I will, I’ll send you one, we’ll put a link, well actually I’ll, I’ll take it, it’s an old photo, but I’ll take a picture of it. I’ll put it in the show notes and then I’ll send you a copy as well so you can have that. But, but this has been great Jim, as always, you know, we’ll definitely have to do this again. Like I said, you know, there’s lots of people you’ve influenced. I’ve talked to a number of ’em on the podcast, but I’m excited to hear about your trip, so maybe we’ll circle back around with you next year and hear about how all your events went and stuff like that. And yeah, thanks again. Jim (1h 2m 40s): I would really look forward to it. Thank you very much. Dave (1h 2m 44s): Alright, your call to action is clear today. If you can head over to jim teeny.com, send Jim an email jim@jimteeny.com and let him know if you know anybody who’s interested in maybe picking up the teeny brand, the lines, all that stuff. It’s amazing history here, so would love if you know somebody, get that out, get the word out there and let folks know If you haven’t yet, please follow this show. You’ll get that next episode delivered right to your inbox and that next episode is gonna be a good one. We’re back in the bucket with Brian Ska and Gang. Brian always brings on multiple guests. That’s what’s amazing about this. He’s had, I don’t think he’s had four guests yet, but regularly he’s got, you know, three guests, two guests. Dave (1h 3m 25s): It’s a good mix. So Brian’s shaking it up and doing some good stuff with West Coast Spay and Roy Spay in general. One shout out next week we have the Missouri River kickoff onto Mark is here and we’re gonna be talking about how you can win a trip to Missouri. And If you want to get in on the trip right now, we’re gonna be selling a few spots to that. This is this amazing Tailwater, the Missouri, which is just off the hook as far as fish per mile size. Go to wef fly swing.com/big mo, that’s B-I-G-M-O. If you go there right now, you can sign up for your name and, and I’ll follow up with you by an email, let you know what we have available. This is gonna be an awesome one lodge on the river of the Missouri and it’s all good. Dave (1h 4m 4s): The dry fly school, we’re, we’re PAing it, but it’s gonna be everything fishing. All right, I’m gonna get outta here. Hope you’re having a great morning. Hope you have a fantastic evening or if it’s morning, hope you’re enjoying that, that warm drink, and we’ll talk to you on the next episode very soon.