Dave (2s): The West is home to some incredible bug hatches, but few can match the size and intensity of the great salmon fly hatch. These massive aquatic insects have a wildlife cycle, and when they start climbing on the banks and fluttering clumsily over the water, trout lose all sense of caution. Today we’re diving into the magic of this hatch and what it means for anglers fishing one of the most diverse rivers in this region. By the end, you’ll have a few extra tips and tricks up your sleeve for when you’re casting to a not so graceful terror narcissist on the water this year. Hey, I’m Dave host of this podcast. I’ve been fly fishing since I was a little kid, Grew up around a little fly shop and have created one of the largest fly fishing podcasts in this country. Dave (42s): I’ve also interviewed more of the greatest fly anglers and guides than just about anyone out there. Justin Adams, south Fork Guide and Master Behind the Oars is gonna take us into his world of the Snake River. We’re gonna talk about the middle fork, the salmon. We’re gonna get into even the Grand Canyon today. You’ll find out how he puts a 90 degree bend in the leader and how this helps him fish nips more effectively. You’re gonna find out what the number one thing is, he says to his clients every day, and why fish have scuffed noses from the rocks on the South fork and why and how this can help you find more fish. Plus, you’re gonna hear about the rainbows and who they are and why Jason Bateman, Michael Keaton and other celebs are heading to Justin’s lodge to fish this challenge. Dave (1m 27s): I, we get into the rainbows. This episode of travel is presented by a Yellowstone Teton territory where you can explore a great hunting, fishing, ski, joing, hot springs, and much more. Lots of good stuff. And Justin talks about today that just the relaxing is something he enjoys in the wintertime. So here we go. Justin Adams from the South Fork Lodge. How you doing Justin? Justin (1m 49s): Great, thank you. How you doing? Dave (1m 51s): Good. Yeah, I’m excited about today’s podcast because we’re gonna jump into the South Fork, which I have fished once and it’s a pretty cool river. We’re gonna also talk about some of the stuff you’re doing traveling around the country. And I think it’s interesting, I had Oliver, we’ll put a link in the show notes on the podcast a while back. I guess Oliver and Jimmy’s Lodge, right? Jimmy Kimmel. So this is gonna be cool, but yeah, maybe take us back. Let’s just go back to start real quick before we get into this, before we get into your guiding and all that, how, what’s your first memory of fly fishing and how’d you get into it? Justin (2m 20s): Oh gosh. Probably some of the younger memories. You know, when I was younger, I fished a, a bunch on the North Fork of the Big Lost River with my grandpa. They had a cabin up there, really neat little brook trout stream, a lot of little rainbows and stuff. And so we used to, I had a lot of cousins and stuff, so we used to go out and spin fish a lot when we were, You know, young and then fight over grandpa’s waiters and fly rods once we got old enough to know better. And, but yeah, I had a ton of cousins so my grandma would kick us outta the cabin and get your asses out there and go fishing. And so we didn’t drive her nuts, but that’s a lot of the younger, You know, walk a lot of walking and wade fishing when I was a younger lad out there and didn’t really have a drift boat back then. Justin (3m 6s): Just a lot of walking and wade and we float tubed a lot. I had float tubes that we’d kick around in, stuff like that. But my grandpa showed me a lot on the fly fishing in Dave (3m 15s): Yeah, you did. Okay. And, and that was in, is that the, the loss now? Where is that exactly? Justin (3m 21s): Kind of central Idaho, near Sun Valley. Dave (3m 25s): Oh, okay. Sun Valley. Yeah, I was gonna say. Okay, so not right in like the wood, the wood river, big wood and that Justin (3m 30s): Wood river runs through Sun Valley. This would be north of that. Okay. Yeah. Cool area up there. The Pioneer Mountain range, their cabin overlooked the Devil’s bedstead. It was called really cool mountain range that we’ve actually skied since. So it’s kind of cool. Dave (3m 45s): Oh wow. Right on. Is and is that where your cabin is at, near where you grew up? Justin (3m 50s): Yeah, just the grandparents cabin. I’m originally from Pocatello, but we spent a lot of time up there at, at grandpa’s cabin. Dave (3m 57s): Yeah, he did. That is really cool. And is the cabin still out there? Did grandpa pass it on? Yeah, Justin (4m 2s): Both of the grandparents have passed away, but they sold the cabin. It’s still there. Unfortunately it didn’t stay in the family. Dave (4m 9s): Oh it didn’t, there you go. Yep. Those are always the the, the tough right, the tough one. You look back on it, especially as you get into it fly fishing and you’re like, oh man, we still Justin (4m 18s): Jump the fence and still go fishing in there still though. Oh, Dave (4m 21s): Can you? Yeah, you can still get in there. Justin (4m 22s): Yeah, we might piss some people off, but we still know the honey holes. Dave (4m 25s): Oh, right, right, right. Is that with Idaho? Is that on the river laws? Is there access, how has that worked? Is there public access up to the high water mark? Justin (4m 34s): Yeah, a lot of it. And a lot of those people, if you just ask, they’ll let you go through there. They’re Dave (4m 39s): Fine. Justin (4m 40s): Yeah. There’s a lot of, You know, Idaho is the high water mark though. Dave (4m 43s): It is high water, yeah. Gotcha. Okay. And so you got that grandpa early days. And then is the, the fly fishing, have you been the guiding with, You know, south Fork and everything doing that a while? Justin (4m 54s): Yeah, I worked for the Forest Service up here for about 10 years and I guided part-time, You know, when people got sick or were kind of getting burned out. So I guided part-time for a long time and then worked for the Forest Service and did a lot of river patrol with the forest. So I was on the river a lot. But I think I started hitting it hard around 2018, doing over a hundred days of a season, You know, from about 2018 till now, it’s hard to find housing up here. So I had free housing with the Forest service, so I used that to kind of root down in Swan Valley and then, You know, got a boat, started rowing a lot more and I borrowed everybody’s boat. Justin (5m 34s): I could get my hands on before started guiding so I could learn the river and stuff. But I had fished the South Fork for, You know, from being from Pocatello. It was only an hour and a half from my house. So fished to a lot. So yeah. Dave (5m 46s): Yeah, the South Fork is kind of the biggest, most known best fishing, is that kind of what the South fork’s about out there? Justin (5m 52s): Yeah. Yeah, it’s a really great fishery. A lot of fish per mile. It can take quite a bit of pressure. It gets a lot of guy days, but it fish is pretty good. So we’re fortunate to have that. Dave (6m 6s): And are those, is this the mostly cutthroat? Justin (6m 9s): Yeah, cuties, brown trout and rainbows and then we have the hybrids, the cut bows. Yeah, Dave (6m 13s): I gotcha. Okay. And what’s your boat you’re running now? Justin (6m 16s): I do a 16 foot low pro CL of craft. Yeah, Dave (6m 19s): Low pro. Okay. Justin (6m 20s): Most of the guys are running clackers or hides up here. You’re starting to see some more of those boulder boats. Oh yeah. Some GIF and stuff, but for the most part, a lot of these guys are running cl Yeah. Dave (6m 30s): Cls. Okay, perfect. And so when does your, You know, this time of year it’s, it’s pretty cold out there right now? Justin (6m 36s): Yeah, it’s negative 12. Dave (6m 37s): Yeah. So it’s cold, right. So you’re not doing, unless you’re into ice fishing, is that, are you pretty much in the wintertime just hitting your skiing in the winter sports and stuff? Justin (6m 44s): Yeah, in fact those guys, they wanted me to go snowmobiling yesterday and I told ’em no, it was too cold. Yeah, it’s just rough on your face and your hands and stuff when you’re out there. But yeah, there’s not much else to do. I don’t fish a whole bunch. We’ll go ice fishing like on Rory Reservoir and poke around on the river a little bit. Just a lot of the access is on the river. You have to have ropes and stuff to get in and out of the ramps right now. Oh right. And it’s ob, it’s super cold. So we’ll go snowmobile and ski around here in the snake ranger. There’s a ton of backcountry skiing, so it’s not far from the house. So we’ll load up the snowmobiles and use the snowmobiles to get close and then we hike up and ski down, so Gotcha. Exercise too. Dave (7m 24s): Yeah. So that’s, so you got the winter time. When does your, when does the winter end or when does the fishing start picking up for you? As far as like either personal or the guiding? Justin (7m 33s): I usually start May one through end October. Yeah, we’re usually, it depends, a lot of people, we don’t get a ton of bookings in May. It’s, it’s getting better. I think I have right now in the books, probably a dozen days in May as of now. But yeah, it’ll fill up quick and then we’ll go, You know, mid-October or to the end of October depending on if clients wanna come. Dave (7m 56s): Gotcha. Yeah and depend and usually October’s a pretty, it can be a pretty decent weather, a good time to go out there. Justin (8m 1s): Yeah, October’s really good actually. Yeah, it’s usually low water, so the river’s low and it’s easy to find for the bigger fish. And then the browns are starting to spawn in the fall too, so those guys are making beds and stuff. So we usually leave those guys alone and once you, You know, you start seeing their beds, let them do their thing, then there’s obviously a ton of white fish that are starting to spawn at that time as well. A lot of the winter fishing, there’s a ton, you’ll catch a lot of white fish. Yeah. But it’s still fun catching fish. Dave (8m 32s): Sure. I saw you mentioned on email before we got going some other trips like Mexico. Are you traveling also around after You know, the off season? Justin (8m 41s): Yeah. Right when we got done, in fact, we had the employee party at the lodge and then they picked me up. I actually stayed at the lodge and they picked me up the next day and we went to Mexico and we go down to Kay’s Lodge in Butan Allen. And I’ve been down there twice, but we do 10 days down there. Jose and Lily run that lodge and a couple of the other guides hosted some trips from our lodge that I kind of piggybacked with them this trip. It was raining a lot, tough weather conditions, but I ended up getting a really nice permit about a 25 pound permit. Wow. One of the biggest permit I’ve ever caught. So it was pretty Dave (9m 19s): Cool. No kidding. Justin (9m 20s): So yeah, we wanna do anything but trout fish when we get done. So it’s nice to go to the salt water and, and do a little dip fishing. ’cause honestly you get sick of tracing trout around all summer. Yeah. Dave (9m 33s): So, right. ’cause you’re doing it pretty much. Are you doing it every day or what’s your summer look like? Justin (9m 38s): Pretty much. I’ll grind it out. Do as many days. I’ll probably do, I usually do like 10 days, take a couple off, 10 days, take a couple off. It just depends. But usually I’ll crank out, You know, as many as my back will let me. Yeah. Dave (9m 52s): Yeah. Okay. And and where was the, was that a lodge you guys went down to in Mexico? Justin (9m 57s): Yeah. Yeah. It’s called Kay’s Lodge. Dave (9m 59s): Oh, K Kay’s Lodge. Okay. Justin (10m 2s): A YS. Yeah. I’d recommend people go and check it out. It’s a really nice fishery too. They’re famous for permit tarpon, CUDA bonefish. Obviously it’s cool for me to go down there and get guided too. It helps me, You know, be a better guide when I get back here and it, all the guides there are really good. Yeah, it’s a blast. Have a good time, good food, all that good stuff. So, Dave (10m 25s): Yeah. That’s awesome. This is really cool. So you got that going and then, and then, yeah, you’re pretty much in the season when May starts, well, whenever you start getting trips, you’re going, what, what is it, what do you think is the most popular time? Or is it pretty much busy? You know, June, July, August, all summer out there, Justin (10m 41s): Most of the people are shooting for that, You know, 4th of July au the month of July or when the salmon flies get here. Dave (10m 49s): Yeah. The month of July. Yep. Justin (10m 50s): Yeah. And it’s, it varies each year, but usually 4th of July they’re, they’ve hatched and that a lot of the people freak out about the salmon flies. Yeah. And it, and it’s good, You know, that’s one of the, one of the biggest hatches we have. And there’s usually multiple hatches and there, there’s, I mean these bugs are thick. You hit ’em with on your car, on the, on the highway and Dave (11m 15s): Stuff. Right, right. These are the big, the giant salmon flies. Yep. Yeah. Is it like kind of a, it’s a short window or what’s the window look like? Justin (11m 21s): Well, we’ll start ing them, You know, there’s a ton of NPHs and you’ll start seeing ’em, You know, and then they’re all over in the bushes when they hatch, obviously. And once we start seeing them, or you start, a lot of times they’ll start trying to eat your bobber, You know, fishing with strike indicators and that. And once they start, You know, hitting out bobber or we just start putting on big bugs just ’cause we know they’ll eat it. Yeah. Basically when we start fishing those, I don’t really deviate from the big bug droppers, so unless I really wanna fish deeper with, You know, with the bobber or whatnot. But pretty much from July, You know, all the way clear into, You know, October and now I’ll still fish big, big dries too, if You know. Justin (12m 3s): Oh, okay. Because they’re still hoppers and golden stone flies and Right. They like to look up. So Dave (12m 10s): Yeah. So that hatch starts. So on the salmon flies you’re saying, so before even the hatch starts, when might you be fishing some of the big, You know, when’s the earliest you might fish those big nims? Justin (12m 21s): It kind of depends on the clients. You know, if they’re antsy to fish top water stuff, a lot of these guys, You know, that’s all they want to do sometimes. But I’d say as soon as you start seeing them, those nips and You know, they’re, and we fish ’em a lot, it kind of works its way up from the Henrys fork. Okay. And then works way to the South fork or You know, where the confluence is down lower on the snake. So we, we kind of get, You know, it starts, You know, the hatch down there, so we kind of know when it somewhat, when it’s coming and or we’ve already fished down there, so we’re kind of anticipating it. Same with the fish, I think the fish anticipated as well. So if you throw those big bugs on, they’re going to eat ’em eventually. Justin (13m 3s): So Dave (13m 3s): They are okay. Justin (13m 4s): Put ’em off. Yeah. Dave (13m 5s): Right. So what’s your nipping setup if you’re fishing a big nph? You know, are you always using an indicator or how, what’s that look like? Justin (13m 13s): We use, like, the thing with bobbers a lot and, and just for the newer like mini bobbers with the little swivel setup, You know, deadly setup here is just two pats rubber legs. I do a lot o on a tag, You know, you can use split shot if you want it to get down, but a classic deadly rig here is just double rubber legs. Dave (13m 34s): Really double. That’s awesome. Justin (13m 36s): I’ve caught tons of fish with just two turds we call it. Yeah. Dave (13m 39s): Two turds, just brown or black, Justin (13m 42s): Orange too orange. And there’s colors, there’s tons of different colors. And then you get your Sharpie game too. You can sharpie and stuff. So a lot of times we’re using, You know, the rainbows are spawning in the spring and the cuddy follow them. So we’re using a lot of our tractor stuff, You know, subsurface, You know, pink beads, stuff like that. Pheasant tails and more attract flies with. But that rubber leg is a staple in my box. Dave (14m 6s): It is, it is. Okay. Yeah. How do you, what, what’s your, and are you using kinda like a six weight, nine foot, six weight? Justin (14m 12s): Yeah. Yep. I’ve got two nine foot six weights for nipping and then two 10 footers that I’ll use for nipping. And then, You know, nine foot, we have tons of Dave (14m 23s): Rocks. Yeah. Why do you guys, why would you go for the 10 foot or the nine foot or why not just stick with the 10 foot? Justin (14m 29s): Well, a lot of times I’ll do my 10 foot as on a five weight, but line it up. So I’ll put a six weight line on the five weight, 10 footer, just ’cause you’re mending all day. You’re not, not a huge fasting game. It’s more of that, You know, big jump rope style men’s. And so that longer, that 10 footer nice for that just for mending your face off all day. Dave (14m 50s): Right. Oh, the 10 foot. Yeah. It gives you a little more leverage. Justin (14m 53s): Yeah. There’s, we say mend all day long. Dave (14m 56s): It’s yeah, like mend, because what happens is you, you’ve got your indicator, let’s just say your indicator. So even that you’re mending all day with the indicator. Justin (15m 4s): Yeah. You’re keeping that fly line behind the indicator as much as you can getting Right. You know, nice slow presentation and, and getting those flies down. Dave (15m 12s): Yeah. Yeah. What, what is the, so let’s say you got the 10 foot five weight out there. What is your leader typically? Like? How long is it? What’s that? Is that a pretty custom build there for that Justin (15m 23s): I build all my leaders. A lot of these guys have, You know, all the tapered leaders and stuff. But I generally will build mine and I, and it’s all on a hinge system from the indicator. So it’s on a 90 degree reig we call ’em, You know, you do a couple loop knots or there’s several ways you can attach it knot wise, but it basically creates a hinge system underneath the indicator so your flies aren’t, You know, dragging parallel Dave (15m 48s): To the right to 90. Justin (15m 50s): Yeah. And so they hinge in a lot of times instead of mending, I’ll have ’em just rip, lift the raw tip up Yeah. While we’re moving in the boat and it’s kinda like a mini men and it works well with those 10 foot rods. Dave (15m 60s): Right. It just kind of move it. Yeah. And Justin (16m 2s): It brings, it moves the flies up into little more current sometimes and, and it triggers a reaction from the fish to move, You know? Dave (16m 8s): Yeah, right. Instead of, yeah. Move it a little bit. So you got this 90 degree off of the bob, is it kind of from the bobber then? It it goes down 90. Yeah. Justin (16m 16s): Yeah. I’ll run depending on, You know, what time of year it is. If we’re in heavy, You know, blow as far as runoff and the, the water’s a little off color, whatever, you can usually run two x or You know, pretty heavy one X to two X to your first bug and then go accordingly. But towards the end of the year, I’m, I’m down to like five x you gotta be sneaky, so, oh yeah. It just depends on what time of year as far as You know, your leader. So. Dave (16m 41s): Gotcha. Okay. So, so if you were starting out in, let’s just say that July period, you’d be using more like heavier stuff? Justin (16m 48s): Yeah. In fact when we’re fishing for the, You know, salmon, well during that salmon fly hatch, a lot of times I got my guys on two x seven foot, two x just rope so they can throw in the bushes and get the flies Dave (17m 1s): Back out. Get it back. Yeah. Justin (17m 3s): And they’re not gonna be, You know, the fish aren’t super, you can line ’em and stuff, but they’re not super leader shy when they’re eating those big sandflies, they’re hammering those things. So. Yep. In fact, I, a lot of times I have ’em, You know, smack the water and I don’t have ’em present the fly, You know, nice and pretty, a lot of us really slapping the water, hitting it, triggering the reaction, You know, they see that and look up and go, ooh. You know, so it triggers a reaction and so it doesn’t have to be super pretty. Yeah, Dave (17m 29s): That’s cool. Justin (17m 29s): And that’s what’s fun too. You can, You know, fish your, your six or, You know, little heavier rod and then huck it in the bushes and still get your flies back, so Yeah. Dave (17m 38s): Right. That is, that’s smart. Yeah. Justin (17m 40s): He but tuck them in underneath stuff and get ’em into pots. Dave (17m 44s): Right, right. That’s cool. Yeah, we were, we had a podcast with, God, I can’t remember exactly who it was, but he, he was talking about, we were, they’re in a canyon and they could see where the big fish were by the splash the fish would make on the side of the wall. So they’d be going down, they Right. They’d see a big tail splash and be like, okay, there was a big one living there. Justin (18m 0s): Yeah. We have a bunch of cliffs on our river like that. And, and these fish, especially during the salmon fly, a lot of their noses are scuffed up. Oh Dave (18m 9s): Wow. Justin (18m 10s): From running, You know, picking the bugs off the rock while they’re Dave (18m 13s): Oh, crazy. Justin (18m 14s): They got road rash on their, on their beep. Dave (18m 16s): That’s so awesome. Yep. And so you’re doing the same thing. So down there are you like, I think they were saying that you just pretty much hit the wall with the fly, that’s real easy. Just get Justin (18m 24s): Bank shot. Yeah, bank shops. Dave (18m 26s): Yep. Justin (18m 27s): Yep. Dave (18m 28s): Man, that’s great. So the, yeah, the South Fork has, does it have a lot of diversity? Is it, is there areas where you’re like, in a nice deep canyon, it’s tight and then it opens up a little bit? Justin (18m 37s): Yeah, you start up at the dam and that’s pretty much pavement to the dam and that most of the sections are, we break ’em out in about 12 mile sections. So we break it down in five different sections and it’s about 65 river miles or something like that. And you get kind of, I call it kind of like the town float or whatever from the dam to say our lodge. And that goes to Swan Valley and Irwin. We call that the upper stretch. And that, that’s got a ton of really nice fish. It’s really pretty in the, in the spring and fall when there’s still snow in the mountains or like when the leaves are changing and stuff. But then you, once you get down in the canyon, there’s no roads, You know, boat or horseback or by foot and it’s all wilderness. Justin (19m 24s): It’s really pretty. So that’s kinda like the primitive stretch of the river. And then you get down to section three and four and you start getting into the bottom of the canyon and then you kind of go into a bunch of braids and more like agricultural areas, but the, there’s a lot more brown trout down there. It’s super fun to row a lot of that. ’cause it’s, it’s a little more technical rowing ’cause there’s a lot of junk in the water, like cottonwood trees and a lot of different side channels. You gotta be careful and know where you’re, You know, you can’t just take a random side channel ’cause you’ll end up in somebody’s farm field. There’s, You know, in an irrigation ditch. Oh wow. Yeah. So you gotta know where you’re going. But it’s super fun rowing down there. Justin (20m 4s): I like to row those sections. Dave (20m 6s): Yeah, there’s, so there’s a little bit, a little bit of white water in there. Justin (20m 9s): Not anything technical. It’s just, you gotta be a lot more on your toes. There’s a lot more water. Yeah, Dave (20m 15s): Yeah. A lot more. Yeah. Just whatever. You just gotta be ready and you guys are doing. Yeah. Justin (20m 20s): Yeah. You’ll go down there and if you’re not careful with some of these clients, they’ll lose every one of your flies on all these snacks. Dave (20m 27s): Oh man. How, how do you avoid that when you got a client that’s kind of tends to get snagged up? How do you keep him, what’s the, what do you do? What’s the tip there? Justin (20m 35s): Well, you gotta risk it for the biscuit we always say, but when it starts getting a little outta hand, You know, you’re like, you don’t have to fish all the time. Just when I tell you it’s gonna be really good, make sure you’re getting good drifts through there and or don’t be snagged up before we get to the good spot. Dave (20m 52s): Yeah, right. That’s the worst where you’re like, okay, there’s the spot, You know, there’s a nice fish and then he breaks off before you get there. Justin (20m 59s): Yeah, they’re hung up on something. Yeah, sure. But that’s part of the game. Yeah, I mean Dave (21m 4s): It is, you gotta risk it, like you said. Justin (21m 6s): Yeah. And so you just gotta take, take plenty of flies and expect to lose a bunch of flies down there if you’re putting ’em in the spots. But yeah, it’s, there’s a lot of really nice brown trout down there. And like I said, that’s where the confluence of the Henry Sport comes in down there. Then it, it goes all the way to the little town called Manan. And yeah, we fish all, all the way down there and then we can fish clear down on the lower snake too down by American Falls and that, that’s kinda where I grew up. I went to Idaho State and Pocatello and so we fished below the American Falls a ton and out in Fort Hall on the reservation and stuff like that, so. Oh Dave (21m 43s): Wow. Is that still considered a tailwater down there? Justin (21m 47s): Yeah, below American Falls is, but all the reservation stuff’s like Spring Creeks and stuff. Dave (21m 53s): Wow. This is great. Yeah. So you got that and then you’re, you’re rowing, I think you have some skills. Have you done like the, the Grand Canyon, the middle fork, some big white water? Justin (22m 1s): Yeah, that’s kind of how I started was rowing, You know, whitewater and fishing, stuff like that. But yeah, I’ve been down to Grand Canyon twice, 2 21 day floats. I used to float the middle fork of the salmon almost every year. My mom actually lived at the Flying Bee Ranch on Oh wow. The salmon up there. And when we were kids, they’d fly us in, I was probably like 13, but they’d fly us into the Flying Bee Ranch and we had to do chores and stuff, but we had kind of a commissary so we could have candy or whatever if we worked it off. But we rode horses and fished and my mom kind of was the do all down, she did a lot of the cooking housekeeping, so like that for the ranch and we’d stay there for a couple months. Justin (22m 46s): And so yeah, I love the Middle Fork. It’s a really cool fishery too. A lot of good cutthroat and bull trout. Dave (22m 53s): Oh, bull trout too. Yeah. That’s Sweet Justin (22m 55s): Streamer Fisher on there. So fun. And then the Cell Way River’s really neat. That’s another really cool one in Idaho. Both. That one’s pretty technical as far as we’re, Dave (23m 6s): Is the Cell way. I’ve been on the Middle Fork once. Is the cell way a lot more technical than the Middle Fork or, or just different? Justin (23m 14s): Yeah, I’d say there’s just some spots where there’s like class three, class four, class five, like ba boom, boom, boom, boom. Like if you swam one of ’em you’re gonna swim ’em all kind of thing. Right. That’s why that one’s a little more scary, but it’s just real bony. It can be and and low water. But yeah, I’d say it’s a little more technical than the middle fork. A Dave (23m 31s): Little more. Okay. Justin (23m 32s): Yeah, depending on the flows though. Yeah. Dave (23m 34s): Did you see any of those when you were on the Grand Canyon? The, the Dory, the wood boats floating down? Justin (23m 40s): Oh yeah. Yeah. In fact a friend of mine had a, a dory, an old one that they didn’t take it down. I wrote it down the Upper snake where it goes into ADE’s Reservoir, You know, from ho the Hoback where everybody does the whitewater stretch up there, lunch counter and what’s the other one? There’s a couple of big Rapids in there, but I actually ran that in the Grand Canyon Dory. Dave (24m 3s): Oh you did? Oh, so you took a dory through the canyon. Justin (24m 6s): Yeah, on the upper snake here. It was pretty cool. Dave (24m 8s): Wow. Yeah, that is really cool. Was it, was it one of those boats from the grande, the, the decked over and all that stuff? Yep. Okay. And what was it like, what did they make those, are those like 18 footers? Are they bigger? Are they about, are they 16? Yeah, I think Justin (24m 20s): That one that I rode was 18 feet. Dave (24m 22s): What’s it like when you road, is it a lot different than your typical standard drift boat? Does it feel different like when you’re Justin (24m 29s): Yeah, it, the high, the high sides on it are a lot different. You can definitely take on a lot more water than, than the lac. Dave (24m 36s): Oh right. Yeah. Well it’s unlimited, right, because you can, because it’s stacked over. Yeah. Justin (24m 40s): You can run some big water in those boats. Yeah. I think when I ran that it was like class four or something when it, when we did that. But there’s Big Kahuna is the other wave in there. They call it Big Kahuna and Launch Counter. Okay. They’re kind two little, they’re just big wave trains in there. But they’ll definitely eat up your low profile drift boat. So mainly these guys are doing it in rafts, so Dave (25m 2s): Oh yeah, rafts, right. Justin (25m 3s): Yeah. That door is fun out there though. Dave (25m 5s): Yeah, I know. That is a, that’s a cool, cool deal they have going there. Nice. So you got, yeah, you got some of that experience. And then, You know, I guess going back to the fishing with, and I’m kind of sticking on the ni because I wanna make sure I, I get this doubt. So you, you’re back to that you were talking about the 20 or the 90 degree curve. So if you’re fish in the double nymphs, is it, so you, you’re saying like a two x liter down to your first line, do you, Justin (25m 28s): Depending on, depending on the flows and stuff in the spring on minimum two x and a lot of these bigger fish, you’re not gonna land unless you are using some heavy hit and stuff. ’cause in fact a lot of the bigger fish in the fall that I, that my clients lost, some of it was probably my fault, not fishing heavy enough, tip it or liter. But you can’t, ’cause they just won’t eat it. They can see it, You know, and it doesn’t sink as fast. Yeah. So generally I’m spending two to three X to the first fly and then I’ll run it on a tag and then I’ll run, You know, three x or four x under that. So I’ll, I’ll taper it myself when I build the, the leaders and I, and I just do basic kind of hinge. Justin (26m 12s): No, they call it, a lot of people call it orvis knot. There’s a bunch of tags. You can do million different knots. But this tag system works pretty well and you can, you can run it to two x to a swivel and then run a tag off that swivel and then another fly under that as well. And that works pretty good. Dave (26m 27s): Oh, I see. So yeah, so you use the swivel so you can run your main fly off and then off of that swivel, that’s where the tag could go. Yep. Oh, I see. Justin (26m 34s): A lot of times too, you can just, once you, when you tie that on the swivel, you just leave that tag in longer and then tie your bug on that and then just tie it that way. If you want to change flies, you can change one fly easy and not have to chop the whole rig. So you can just take, You know, if you wanna change the top or bottom, it’s easy to swap ’em. And then you, you can mess with the, the depths as far as how far you want the flies in be, You know, from the in between, from each other, if that makes sense. Dave (26m 60s): Right. But typically your leader is seven feet. Are you adjusting it quite a bit depending on the water depth you’re fishing? Justin (27m 7s): Yeah, and it’s all, all size, depth colors, all I’m doing figuring out what’s, You know, what size of flies, what depth, what color. Yeah. A lot of times we’re, I’m fi shallow nit fishing, so you’re fishing a wing, You know, deep would be your wingspan. So I’m, I’m under six foot, so it’s gonna be under six foot. A lot of these new figs with the double and we’re fishing a lot of aloe flats, You know, little drops runs, You know, stuff like that. So. Right. And we’re constantly changing. A lot of times people fish way too deep. So I, I like shallow MFRs, they’re pretty effective here. And, and the fisher usually will tell you what you need to be doing. You know, if you’re not deep enough you’ll figure it out really quick. Justin (27m 50s): So Dave (27m 50s): Yeah, just, just ’cause you’re not getting the feedback. Is that how You know you’re too deep or? Yeah, Justin (27m 54s): Yeah. And we know where the fish are, You know, and so a lot of days it’s, some days it’s tougher, but a lot of times you just gotta go a little deeper or add some split shot stuff like that. So Dave (28m 4s): Yeah. So you guys are using splits, so this isn’t just like tungsten beaded flies. Justin (28m 9s): Yeah, a lot of, we are using heavy weighted flies as well, but sometimes you gotta get ’em down quick, especially when they’re, You know, when it’s cooking in the spring, so. Dave (28m 17s): Gotcha. Where would the split shot go on that setup? You talked about how far Justin (28m 21s): I’d put it above that swivel so it won’t slide when you cast it Dave (28m 26s): Like a foot above it or something like that. Or even closer. And Justin (28m 29s): I put it right up on the swivel so Oh, Dave (28m 30s): Right on the swivel. Yeah. Justin (28m 31s): Yeah. So that way it’s a, it stops it. Yeah, Dave (28m 33s): It stops it. Right. Justin (28m 35s): Yep. And like I said, that’s gonna be more when the water clarity’s off so the fish can’t see. Yeah, you can’t do that when the water’s real clear. Dave (28m 42s): No. So we’re talking more earlier season. Yeah. Justin (28m 45s): We’re talking May early June when the water’s, You know, anywhere from 18 to 20,000 CFS and it’s off color. Dave (28m 53s): Yep. So you got that early rig where you’re setting, where you’re going, kind of going big and and targeting mostly. Are you targeting more of those big browns rainbows or just kind of whatever? Justin (29m 2s): Both. Yeah, you’ll get a mixed bag, but a lot of times when you’re early on you’re gonna get some really nice brown trout. Yeah. Dave (29m 9s): And then the water, as far as reading it, if you didn’t know where the fish are at, you’re just floating down looking for like little what ledges drop off, stuff like that. Justin (29m 18s): Yeah. Seams, riffles, foam lines, any structure. And that’s the thing about the south for, is you can be rowing down and be like, oh that looks really good. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it, and it is good, but if you don’t fish here all the time, they, these people that You know, like the general public will just bounce around to the spot that they say, oh that looks good. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so they, a lot of the bigger fish I get is when we’re moving and not like stopped anchor fishing, it’s a lot of ’em are like moving through some of these runs and stuff and shallow a lot of shallow or shallow water. Dave (29m 53s): Oh really? Is that nipping in dries? Justin (29m 55s): Both, yeah. A lot of the big browns that I caught were in real shallow water that where you would not have thought they’d be sitting. Yeah. Dave (30m 4s): They’re coming in to feed or right into the shallow Justin (30m 6s): Water. I just surfing, You know, surfing in there and any bug that comes by, they eat it and they don’t have to work a lot, it’s coming to them. Right. So we fish a lot of stuff where these fish, they’re lazy, they’re like us, they don’t want to eat, move to eat that much. So, You know, they’re just in there surfing and when the food’s coming down they eat it. So. Dave (30m 24s): Yeah. Right. So you might be, if you’re floating down river, you might not only looking for those deeper seams, but maybe some of the, is this shallower water, like maybe on the side of a gravel bar or what, what does the shallow water look like? Justin (30m 35s): Yeah, right. Like on these runs where you’ll have a, a real shallow gravel inside edge, You know, and I sitting on those edges and then you can, a lot of times we’ll anchor up and, and just, You know, fish these riffles like that and you start close to the boat and work your way out or vice versa kind of grid the whole riffle. Gotcha. That’s the thing a lot of the, these guys don’t think outta the box and go fish, You know, some weird shallow runs or we’re on the river every day so we have to mix it up. You can’t just go from honey hole to honey hole ’cause eventually it just doesn’t work. So even streamer fishing, we’ll throw those streamers in, ride off those shallow inside edges on the gravel bars like that and those fish eat ’em up on, You know, right as it hits the water on or on your, You know, second or third strip. Justin (31m 20s): Mm. Like six inches of water. Dave (31m 22s): Gotcha. So it’s the same stuff. You’re fishing streamers and the same waters you fish the dries. Justin (31m 27s): Yep. Dave (31m 30s): Step into the world where the river whispers and the fishing is nothing short of legendary. This year I ventured into the heart of Eastern Idaho’s Yellowstone Teton territory where the fish were larger than life and the waters held the secrets of the best fly fishing out West Yellowstone Teton territory is not just a location, it’s a gateway to adventures that will etch themselves into your memory with crystal clear rivers like the Henry’s fork and the South Fork of the Snake and enough lakes to keep you going all year long. Make your way to Yellowstone Teton territory and embark on a journey to one of North America’s finest fly fishing destinations. Whether you’re planning your trip now or just dreaming it up, the YTT is where those dreams turn into reality. Dave (32m 13s): Remember Yellowstone Teton territory, that’s Teton, T-E-T-O-N. It’s time to experience eastern Idaho for yourself and support this podcast at the same time. So that’s a good reminder. Yeah. That it’s not just in those deep runs where the big fish are holding, you’re getting some of those big. And what is a, what’s a big brown or rainbow? I know the cut through lower is smaller though. What’s that look like for those species? Justin (32m 37s): Yeah, I mean you get anything 1820 inch fish on our river, that’s a nice fish. Anything above twenties I consider a nice trout. I think the biggest at our lodge was 31, 31 inch brown this year. Oh really? Dave (32m 52s): Wow. You got over 30 this year? Yeah. Justin (32m 54s): Yeah. Several 20 fours, 20 fives, 20 threes, stuff like that. Dave (32m 58s): And these are browns or the, the big fish usually browns or there’s some rainbows that get up there too. Justin (33m 2s): Yeah, I think one of our guys got a 27 inch cutthroat, which is huge. Dave (33m 8s): Dang. 27 inch Cutty. The, the not west slope. These are the snake river cuts. Justin (33m 12s): This is the Yellowstone fine spotted. Dave (33m 15s): Oh okay. Justin (33m 16s): This is massive for that fish that that fish. Right. And it was like 17 inches around huge fish. And that was caught in section three. So yeah, there’s still some really big cuds in there too, so. Wow. A lot of these guys too are fishing worms and eggs and stuff in the spring, so that’s why they’re getting these big brown trout as well. Dave (33m 37s): Oh right. So there’s guys out there fishing conventional with bait and stuff. Justin (33m 40s): Yeah. Or we’re using, You know, like San Juan worms or You know, these blobs and egg patterns. I don’t fish a lot of eggy stuff, I just don’t like to do it. But occasionally we’ll fish, You know, big burgundy worms or You know, San Juan looking style worms and stuff. ’cause a lot of these fish they will gorge on worms. Yeah. Especially in the spring. Dave (33m 58s): In the spring. Right. It’s ’cause that’s what happens, right. The water comes up from a lower and then the water’s over in the banks where all the, the worms are at. Right. And they’re coming out. Justin (34m 6s): Yeah. And then you get all these tributaries that feed the South fork. So all these, You know, rainy Creek, Palisades Creek, pine Creek, all these tributaries coming in are blown out. So there’s a lot of sediment coming in and there and pumping worms and coming outta those. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of other insects as well. But yeah, these tributaries pump a lot of food into the system. Dave (34m 26s): That’s sweet. Yeah. So the San Juan worm is not something you’re afraid to fish that one and definitely works. Justin (34m 31s): Yeah, no, we, we’ll fish the whatever works. Dave (34m 35s): Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. No that’s awesome. I feel like that’s the way it should be, You know, and even like the rubber leg, I mean you think about the bats rubber leg, it’s like that is not much different than a San Juan worm when you think about it. Right. It’s some shail and some rubber. Justin (34m 50s): Yep. I don’t tie a bunch of those just ’cause I hate tying them, but we go through tons of those at our shop and I mean if that’s one, You know, like one fly that you have to, A lot of people don’t fish them though. But I, it’s a staple for me. And a lot of times, You know, there’s a million different sizes obviously, but a lot of times I’m using that as a a, You know, the sink or fly too. Dave (35m 12s): Oh, okay. With with like weight, are you lining that with weight? Justin (35m 15s): Yeah, there’s lead wraps or whatever. Yeah. Weighted wraps you have. But I’ll use that a lot as my point fly and just as a sinking fly too. And those rubber legs too, they, they don’t, You know, the stone flight nims, they don’t swim so to speak. They kind of just trundle down the river then they kind of curl up. So a lot of times I’ll bend the hook a little on the rubber legs and kind of make ’em look like, almost like that potato bug or whatever that curls up and then use that as my sink or fly and then put a bead behind that, You know, 18, 20 inches behind that or something. But yeah, we’re constantly mixing it up, so Dave (35m 49s): Yeah. Gotcha. So on the pat’s rubber leg. Yeah, it’s, so like you’re saying you’ll have that one as maybe the heavy fly to get things down then off of that, off the tag you might have a little, like what would it be? Would you also fish something smaller if you weren’t doing the double rubber legs? Justin (36m 2s): Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of guys will fish the rubber leg like a drop shot as their second fly so to speak. So the heaviest ones on the bottom and then tag a lighter fly on top, just depends how you want ’em to swim. But yeah, we’ll do, I’ll use, You know, betas, flies any, any may fly nymphs Cass nymphs basically whatever food’s there, I’m trying to match the hatch all the time, midges. And a lot of times if you’re not matching the hatch, you’re fishing something that, I don’t know what it is, but they like it kind of thing. Yeah. So duracells stuff, like a lot of tractor flies, You know. But yeah, we just kind of, You know, a lot of it we, we go out every day so we get back to the lodge, You know, and we’ll talk about, You know, where’d you go? Justin (36m 48s): What’d you do? How was, so we get a lot of beta and we have so many flies at our shops. Dave (36m 53s): Oh you do? Justin (36m 54s): Yeah. A lot of the flies that I tie are just guide flies that work well that we put on better hooks and just make ’em more durable so we don’t, You know, catch one fish and the flies toast or one fish. Dave (37m 6s): What, what’s a couple of guide flies you’d be using to like, what’s typical, Justin (37m 12s): We call it one called the mic drop. There’s some, what do they call that one? Dave (37m 19s): Is it just when it’s the mic drop of these other ones? Is it just a similar to just a less material, just kind of simpler? Justin (37m 26s): Yeah, a lot of it thinner, You know, thinner profiles. Dave (37m 30s): What is the mic drop? What if you could describe that, what, what’s that thing look like? Justin (37m 35s): It’s basically, it looks like a, a zebra midge almost with orange collar and it’s olive body super easy. Dave (37m 46s): So it’s imitating a, a guy could imitate anything any may fly any cadis. Justin (37m 50s): Yep, exactly. It’s Midge Cadi may, I don’t know exactly what they think it is, but they like it. Dave (37m 56s): Size range. Are you varying with that stuff? Kind of 1616 Justin (38m 1s): Eighteens yeah. 20 pins. Yeah. And then we will, we’ll do the, there’s a one, I actually did the one fly and did really well and that we called it the devil jig and it’s just basically a mayfly nymph that’s got some CDC soft tackle around the collar red body. But yeah, that one did well and the one fly when I fished that and we just fished that single under a strike indicator. Yeah. Dave (38m 24s): So the indicators, it sounds like, I mean I know like in the boats right, indicators are really nice, especially with clients. Do you find there’s places where maybe you don’t use an indicator for nipping, maybe you do more like euro nipping stuff? Justin (38m 35s): Yeah, you and if you want to swing flies and You know, we’ll, we’ll swing wet flies every now and again. It’s, it just kind of depends on the client when we go out. I’m usually gonna try and dry fly fish or stream or fish when I’m fishing. Yeah. ’cause we bobber fish all the time and you stick is staring at the bobber Dave (38m 51s): So. Right, right. Justin (38m 52s): But on on this river though, we want, I want my people to be able to do it all. You know, I want you to be able to nmp do it all because some days are different. You need to be able to nm fish and You know, or pull out in the streamers when you need them. So that’s Dave (39m 8s): Sweet. What is it the south fork, You know, I know it’s in this amazing place. What is it about the fishing or You know, that makes it so unique or You know, that people are coming for? Is there one thing, what do you think? Justin (39m 20s): Well, like if you stayed at our lodge, you’re not, you’re gonna get, especially if you stay multiple days, obviously you’re gonna get, You know, three different rivers so to speak. ’cause it’s each section so different so you’re not gonna the same water each day. It’s, You know, constantly changes. So, You know, it’s kind of day to day. And a lot of these guys, if they want to go back to the same section we can, but You know, I like to mix it up too. I don’t like to sit and count the same water every day. So no, it’s nice we get a, You know, fish all these different sections and then obviously kind of adapt to, You know, your clientele as You know, as far as their skill level and stuff like that. So Dave (39m 57s): Yeah, that’s, that’s great. So what is the, so the one fly, I’ve heard a little bit about that and you had a, did you had some success out there? Was that this last year? Justin (40m 6s): No, I didn’t do it. I haven’t done it in what, two or three years? I can’t remember. Yeah, I think I got fifth place last time I did it. And those were on flies that I tied. And the years that I didn’t do well, I had my guys streamer fish and I shouldn’t have ’em do that ’cause they lost their flies. But you get one fly, you lose it, you’re done. But the one year, yeah, we, I just nmp fished and had drew the upper sections and ended up getting fifth hung out by the dam and did a bunch of laps up by the dam and ended up getting like a 22 inch cuddy up there and Dave (40m 38s): Right. Is the one fly, is it on the South fork every year? Yeah. Justin (40m 42s): And on the upper snake as well. On the, in the hoback section. Dave (40m 46s): Okay. Upper snakes, hoback. So that’s up towards like Jackson? Justin (40m 49s): Yeah, so they do it on the upper snake and the south work of the snake. Dave (40m 53s): Oh, upper snake and the south. Okay. And then is the one fly, maybe describe that a little bit. We haven’t talked about it in a while. How does that competition work? I think it was that one of that’s been going for a while, right? Justin (41m 2s): Yeah. Long time. It’s a fundraiser, big bucks. These guys, I can’t remember how much they pay per boat, but it’s a lot. And you’ll get a guide to two anglers and the anglers are on different teams. So they’ll get on a boat together, different teammates that way they get a, I think they do like half hour rotation or 15 minutes, they rotate front back of the boat, but they’re on different teams so they can’t cheat. Then the guides keep track and You know, measure all the fish and you can score, I think it’s six fish that you can score. So you kind of gotta be careful which ones you wanna score. And over 18 inches you get more points and they have the whole scoring thing, but you’re basically just trying to catch the most and biggest fish. Justin (41m 45s): And it’s just two days, two different sections on the south fork and then on the upper snake as well. Gotcha. Dave (41m 51s): Wow. And, and when that happens, is the, does the river close down for that event or are there’s lots of people still out there? Justin (41m 57s): We guide during the event. It’s, there’s just a lot more boats. It doesn’t really, not a big deal. Yeah. There’s a lot of really good anglers that’s, if anything, that’s the only thing is you get some good sticks out there that are gonna catch some fish. Dave (42m 10s): Right, right, right. Yeah, Justin (42m 11s): You can tell who’s in the competition and who’s not. So really don’t affect the river that much. Dave (42m 16s): Okay. And is that, are people, are the guides mostly guides in that area or are they coming from all around the place? Yeah, Justin (42m 21s): No, these guys are, the anglers are coming from all around and then they’re using the south fort guides. Oh, okay. Dave (42m 27s): Yeah. Justin (42m 28s): So they know what’s going on here. I think some people, they might have other guides come that have done it, but most of the time you’re getting guides from all these outfitters from around here. Dave (42m 38s): Yeah. Yeah. I think that was one of, was that Jack Dennis’s brainchild coming up with that thing? Justin (42m 43s): I, I am not sure. It might be he, I’m sure he is been involved with it. I’m not positive though. Dave (42m 49s): Yeah, yeah, that’s right. Nice. So, so cool. Well we’ve talked definitely a lot about, You know, in past episodes kind of the lodge, but it’s pretty amazing. Right. And you have Of course Oliver, who’s well known out there and then Jimmy Kimmel, who also is well known. What is that like there, do you see Jimmy a lot? Is he, he’s fish, he fishes there for like a month straight or something like that, doesn’t he? Justin (43m 9s): Yeah, yeah. It’s cool. Yeah, he’s, he loves to fish and he brings a crew out. He comes in the spring. He has it several times that he comes, but he, he spends about a month like you said and yeah they have the, they call em the rain bros. Dave (43m 25s): Rainbows. Justin (43m 25s): Yeah. Rain bros. And their competition, You know, and it’s dry fi only you catch a subsurface. It’s one point top water’s two points. If you get a white fish, it’s negative two points. And so they have this scoring deal and Michael Keaton’s in on it and Jason Bateman a lot of this Huey Lewis and the celebs. So they do this rainbow tournament when he comes the first time, which is usually in the spring. And they try and dry fly fishing when the dry fly fishing sucks. Yeah. So, but that’s what they like to do. So Dave (43m 59s): That’s pretty good. The rainbow is awesome. Justin (44m 1s): I fished Jimmy several times, he’s chill, listens to music fishes. He’s a good angler. Fished with Huey Lewis several times. He’s dry fly only I, I even put on two dry flies and he is like, no, no, no, no, no. And I’m like, well what if the one fly works? And he goes, we’ll just take the other one off then. Dave (44m 20s): So, so Huey like, Huey likes one fly. Justin (44m 23s): Yeah. And he’s super cool. I fished with him and his son Austin and those two were, You know, barking at each and Huey can’t hear very well from all the music, so he is a little hard of hearing. But yeah. So we get a little bit of bickering with him and his kid and Huey likes to fish way out in front of you, so to kind of reel him in so to speak, to get him and his from killing each other. Dave (44m 48s): Right. That’s so good. Yeah. Huey, Justin (44m 50s): All those guys that come are really cool. Dave (44m 52s): Yeah. That’s awesome. Do you guys get any, we don’t talk, You know, rarely about politics here, but is with, with Kibble, do you hear a little bit of that just because of, You know, kind of the political stuff? I’m sure. Justin (45m 3s): Yeah. And I’m sure some of the people don’t even come to our lodge anymore because of the political stuff. Yeah, yeah. But either love or hate him Yeah. Kind of thing and they’ll let You know. Dave (45m 12s): Yeah. They’ll let You know. Right. That’s, that’s the first thing. Yeah, I know it’s interesting ’cause it’s this, we’re in this kind of crazy world right. Of politics just of of of total opposites of, You know, it’s just kind of a rough place to be. But, but yeah, I think being able to laugh at stuff is important. Right. I think that’s what’s cool about it is if you can’t laugh at yourself. Yeah. This stuff, Justin (45m 32s): No it’s not, it’s scripted for him and so it, You know, he’s doing his thing and he is a good guy. Dave (45m 38s): Yeah, that’s good. Cool. Cool and awesome. So you got the CELs out there going. So other than the, the rainbows time, is it pretty much standard throughout the year as far as what you’re doing, the operation you got? Are the clients coming in, repeat clients or a lot of these people new coming in? Justin (45m 55s): As far as with Jimmy? Dave (45m 57s): No, just in general when you’re guiding throughout the year. Justin (45m 59s): Yeah, so usually I try and have like my say, a hundred requests. I try and get a hundred people that want to come fishing with me and then the rest will fill and I, I’ll do like 120 days usually. But a lot of ’em we want requests so we want, You know, we fished with, so I’m trying to get all the repeat PE customers and then, You know, then the rest are people I haven’t met and or You know, new to the lodge and stuff. So they’re basically go out in the morning and they say, hi, I’m Justin, I’m your guide, and we go, go from there kind of thing. So, Dave (46m 34s): Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well let’s take it outta here, here in a few minutes. This is our kind of outdoor, random, You know, activities segment here and I wanted to hear, You know, just a little bit about, You know, what you’re doing. You mentioned a couple things, skiing, So what are the activities out there. I know that part of the world has a ton going on in the winter. Other than fly fishing, what are you interested in? Have we talked about everything? Justin (46m 56s): We just got back one of our guides, grant, I used to do it quite a bit. I’m too old to do it now, but ski joing where you get pulled behind the horse. Dave (47m 5s): Oh wow. What’s it called? Ski Justin (47m 7s): Joing. Dave (47m 8s): Ski joing. Like J How do you spell that? Justin (47m 10s): J-O-R-I-N-G. Dave (47m 11s): Okay. Joing. Gotcha. Justin (47m 13s): And they, they, there’s a circuit they, they do like big sky Montana. There’s four or five all around, You know, in Colorado, Idaho we used to travel and, and race and make money skiing behind the horses. My buddy Grant, we just went and he had a race. We went to support him and he ended up winning it actually. Dave (47m 31s): So this is like a, would this be kinda like dog, like a dog sled thing instead of dogs? You’d have your pulled with a horse. Justin (47m 36s): Yeah. You’re going fast behind a horse on skis and there’s gates and jumps and Oh Dave (47m 41s): Man. Justin (47m 42s): Yeah, it’s pretty crazy. Dave (47m 43s): Holy cow. Is that going on in Idaho there? Justin (47m 45s): Yeah. And Dre, there’s actually a race coming up in Driggs. I think it’s not this weekend, but next. And that’s a pretty big one in Driggs. And then like we have a few of the cowboys and stuff here in Swan Valley that they actually have a course at their house that we’ll go practice and they’ll pull this with horses or snowmobiles yank us around there. Oh man. Their wow. Dave (48m 8s): So, wow. So do you have a quick release? Like if you take a a slip, are you able to just let go of the horse? Justin (48m 13s): Yeah, you should let go of the rope. But a lot of people, there’re like this last race, there are a lot of people crashing. They just did the big sky one. Check it out, you’ll see the highlights from it. Google the big sky ski drawing. Okay. And they had like snowmobiles doing back flips and oh man, hitting jumps and there’s flames. This one pretty big race. But yeah, we’re, we’re doing a little bit of that skiing a lot. We go to Targe Jackson Hole, do a back country skiing here. Dave (48m 41s): Skiing’s good. Is it good Snow, everything’s great out there for skiing, Justin (48m 45s): Powder skiing, we ski a lot of deep powder. There’s been a lot of blanches so we’ve been having to be real careful so we’re constantly looking at that kinda stuff. But yeah, it’s pretty quiet here in Swan Valley in the winter it is, You know, after fishing all summer, every day it’s nice just to sleep in sometimes, You know? Dave (49m 3s): Yeah, yeah. That’s it. Justin (49m 4s): It kind of slows down here in the winter. It’s nice. Dave (49m 6s): Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, because you mentioned if you like snowmobile, ice fishing, there’s definitely lots of winter activities right there out there. Stuff you can do. Justin (49m 13s): In the fall we elk hunt so I try and get an elk. Oh Dave (49m 17s): Cool. Is that bow or rifle? Justin (49m 20s): This year I drew a muzzle loader tag. Oh wow. Was the old, You know, powder? Dave (49m 25s): Yeah. What was that? What was that like? Did you hunt it? Justin (49m 28s): Yeah, I spent a week. I just couldn’t get close enough to hit ’em. Dave (49m 32s): Yeah. Was this in, was this near your hometown? Justin (49m 34s): Yeah, yeah. But yeah, these muzzle loaders are open sites. Dave (49m 38s): Oh man. So it’s like bow, are you kinda getting the same distance as if you’re shooting a bow? Justin (49m 43s): Yeah, about that. You can shoot a little further. A hundred yards is about as far as I try. Yeah. You know, is that accurate? But yeah, they were, we were getting close but just not close enough where I could hit ’em. Wow. So we had no elk meat this year and Yep. That’s my favorite. Dave (49m 59s): Oh man. I know. See the elk is, I, and I haven’t had elk be in the freezer for a while, but it is nice. Yeah man, you get an elk ’cause that that really loads it up. A deer is nice, but you can burn through a deer elk. Right. You gotta really, You know, work on it. Yeah. Justin (50m 13s): Loads where I live up here on Rainy Creek, we have a ton of white tail there, You know, I have a, I bought a drone impulse buy it. Costco bought this drone, so I’ve been practicing the drone thing, but you can see the whole deer migration through here. It’s kind of cool with the drone. Oh Dave (50m 29s): That’s Justin (50m 30s): Awesome. But yeah, I’m gonna, working on that, I’m gonna do some cool drone shots on, You know, following us down the river, so. Dave (50m 36s): Right, right. That’s a good idea. While you’re guiding, just throw the drone out there and get some shots. Justin (50m 40s): Cool. Follow mode. So practicing with skiing, so pretty sure I can do it down the river and not to swamp it. Yeah. So, Dave (50m 48s): God this is great. So yeah, so lots of good stuff there. Well, any other may, maybe we’ll take it outta here with just a, a couple of tips. We were talking nymphs, I, I was kind of focusing a little bit on nymphs, although, You know, dries is obviously everything’s good. What are a couple of nymphing tips? You know, somebody’s out there again, maybe it’s their first time, You know, fishing the South fork. Justin (51m 7s): I always tell my clients, cast less and hunt your flies more. And that’s like we talked earlier by using, you’re gonna be mending, mending, mending. That mend is super important. Long slow drifts. A lot of times these guys are not getting the flies down where they need to be and, and then they recast when the flies get to where they need to be. So a lot of being patient and letting those flies hunt, let ’em get down there, use those mens, use the lifts. And I always say the fish live in the river to quit casting. Yeah. You know, the people cast way too much. Dave (51m 41s): Keep it in the water. When you do that lift instead of the roll cast, do you kind of just pull the rod up and upstream like a few feet? Yeah, Justin (51m 48s): It’s kinda like jigging if you’re jigging ice fishing. Yeah. It’s just like a jig. Dave (51m 52s): Oh right. Lift it up and then the current kind of keeps it, straightens it out and gets it down. Yeah, Justin (51m 56s): Exactly. Yeah. Dave (51m 57s): Yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome. Okay. And then, then pretty much you’re floating when you’re going, are you, rods are floating, are you pretty much just steering that fly right in the slot? Justin (52m 6s): Yeah, I’m, that’s what I tell clients too. Let me drive your flies to the fish. I’ll drive you to the fish and a lot of times keep your rod tip down, keep that tip of your rod pointed at the indicator and I’ll drive you to the fish. All you gotta do is I tell ’em answer the phone and that’s when you set Yeah, just like answering the phone. Dave (52m 27s): Right. Answer the phone. Yep. That’s it. Justin (52m 29s): And then keep that round tip up once you’re hooked up, You know, and then you’re gonna turn the heads and, and I’ll drive the fish, You know, to the net so to speak. But yeah, a lot of it, yeah, we’re, we’re, and I can even, You know, with an or stroke, kind of tweak the boat to throw a mend in for someone that’s struggling, kind of mend for them with the boat. So there’s little tricks that we, we use all the time like that if people are having a hard time with their mends. Right. Dave (52m 54s): Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. Is there any like a hidden gem fishing spot, maybe not on the South Fork, something that we couldn’t, You know, or that maybe people know about but You know, we could mention here Or is there, I know you can fish trips, right? You can fish some of the trips there. Justin (53m 8s): I get, I get in trouble, but there’s a really cool, we, it’s called Bear Creek. Yeah. And it goes into Palisades Reservoir, which goes into the South Fork. But Bear Creek’s an awesome cutthroat fishery. There’s a ton of big cuties up there. They eat small dry flies and hoppers and stuff and then, and you just drive up there and walk and wait. It’s a cool little creek. Dave (53m 29s): Okay, perfect. Yeah, that’s one. And then this is good. Well, well let’s, I always love to hear a little bit on, on the music just to kind of round things off here. Are you listening to more music or a podcast when you’re out there heading to the river Justin (53m 41s): Music? Dave (53m 42s): Yeah. What, what’s your music? What’s usually in there? Is this on Spotify or Apple? Justin (53m 47s): I have both. I like all sorts of music. Yeah. It’s hard to say. I, I’ll go from country one day to death Metal the next. Yeah. Dave (53m 58s): Yeah. What, what is the country? Something like more something you’d newer, you’d hear more old stuff. Justin (54m 4s): I like the older country. Some of the, I don’t like the, the newer pop country stuff. Dave (54m 8s): Yeah. What would be an old, what would be one person or band or, Justin (54m 14s): That’s a tough one. You can’t, some good, good old Brooks and Dunn. Dave (54m 19s): Yeah, Brooks and Dunn. There you go. Yeah, Brooks and I love it. I don’t think we’ve had a Brooks and dud sighted yet, so, we’ll, we’ll throw a, a video in the show notes for that too. So Brooks and Dun, I’m trying to think of a song, but I, I remember that was the nineties, right? Justin (54m 32s): Neon Moon. Yeah. Oh Dave (54m 33s): Neon Moon. Yeah. Right, right, right. Good. Okay, cool. And and what about on the nightlife around there? Is there any, any food, anything you had mentioned in the evening? Like if you’re going into town? Justin (54m 44s): No, well there’s two restaurants here and one one’s open Wednesday through Sunday and the other one’s you never know when it’s open. So there’s not much is no’s nothing. We have one, we have a bar in Irwin now that’s, they remodeled so we have kind of a bar, but other than that, yeah, Dave (55m 3s): Yeah, Justin (55m 4s): We spend a lot of time about the lodge Dave (55m 5s): Too. That’s the, that’s thing right? The lodge is nice. Justin (55m 8s): Yeah. Yeah. It’s super nice. So, and they encourage us to, You know, hang out, talk to the clients and stuff so. Oh sure. Dave (55m 15s): What’s the bar called? Isn’t it have a name there? The Machete. Machete bar. Justin (55m 19s): Yeah. Dave (55m 20s): Right, right. You got the bar and it’s just super nice. Yeah, I mean Justin (55m 22s): We have new Fly Shop now that has a bar in it as well, so. Dave (55m 26s): Oh, so there is it so there’s a new fly shop on the lodge grounds. Justin (55m 29s): Yeah. And it’s awesome. It’s a huge full Yeti endorsed fly shop. Yeah, it’s super nice. Yeah. Dave (55m 38s): Oh wow, this is awesome. Okay. Yeah, I didn’t realize that. Nice. Well this has been awesome Justin. I appreciate the time today. Maybe on the, You know, if we get you back here we’ll talk more about some of the other, You know, hatches and things and some of your explorations. But yeah man, this has been a lot of fun. Appreciate the time and we’ll definitely look forward to keeping in touch with you. Justin (55m 56s): Yeah, no problem. Thanks man. Dave (55m 59s): Alright. Your call to action is clear. You can head over to Instagram, check in with, at JA Fish Ski J Fish Ski and let Justin know you heard this podcast. Check in with him. If You know Justin, just say hi today and if you’re interested in the South Fork, check out the South Fork Lodge and, and check out some of that action we talked about today. I want to let You know we are going live on YouTube regularly now and we’ve got sessions, flight time sessions, we’ve got some upcoming webinars. The next one that’s coming here is gonna be Bruce Richards. If you’re interested in elevating your fly cast, we’ve got one of the best on the planet. Dave (56m 39s): Bruce Richards is gonna walk us through his webinar presentation and some actions that are gonna include the six step method to get you leveled up for your casting. Go to wew.com/webinar right now and you can sign up for that next webinar. We got a big one, one last one here. A big one, new episode, a new podcast series on this podcast, CJ’s real Southern Podcast. You don’t wanna miss this one. I’ve got the new host of CJ’s Real Southern podcast, which is gonna be one of our podcasts in our feed. Chad Johnson is gonna break it out. We’re gonna be talking streamers, it’s gonna be a big one. I can’t wait to launch this one out. I want to thank you for checking in travel today and I hope that you can live that dream trip this year and get out and experience that road less Traveled.