773B | Top Colorado Fly Fishing Spots with John Hunt of Moccasin Fly Club 

Dave (2s): Colorado is a top destination for both fly fishing and hunting in the us and for good reason. We’re heading there this year to explore some of the state’s most iconic waters from the Colorado River to the South Platte from Boulder and beyond. In today’s episode, you’ll get a guided tour of these legendary fisheries, along with some tips to help you plan your next Colorado trip more successfully and smoothly this season. This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, And what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. John Hunt, founder of Moccasin Fly Club, is back on the show to share his favorite spots for fishing and hunting across Colorado and New Mexico. Dave (42s): He’s bringing his top 10 places to check out this year, along with insider tips on when to go DIY when a guided trip makes sense, and how to stretch your budget without skimping on the experience. We’ll also get the details on what it’s like to float the sand Juan right now and here about the cozy lodging they have ready right now on the San Juan just for you. Plus, John shares his go-to gear, picks a few hidden gems you might not find on a map, and the one trip he says every angler should make at least once. Here we go, round two, John Hunt from moccasin fly hubub.com. How you doing, John? John (1m 20s): Good, man. Thanks for having me back. Dave (1m 21s): Yeah, yeah, this is, I’m excited to get into This one today. Last time we did a, a wide range on your program and kind of had your founder story about how you got into it. You had a, a grandfather there with a, a cool bamboo rod, which sounds like you still have next to you there. Is it a bamboo rod? I guess first off, was it a bamboo? John (1m 38s): No, it’s, I wanna say I think it’s a Langley, it’s a, it was a four weight graphite Langley that’s from Oh, okay. The forties or whatever. And I, I have a, a weird superstition, but since, like, I want to say, when was it? So 2018 I think is when I, my father finally gave it to me, but every year I go try to put a fish on it somewhere. Oh, Dave (1m 58s): You do? So you still use it. Yeah. John (1m 60s): So my grandfather caught a fish on it. My dad caught fish on it. I’ve caught fish on it. My oldest has caught fish on it. My youngest still has to catch a fish on it, but he is only three. But yeah, every year I take it off the wall for like one day, go catch something on it, put it right back on the wall, and I, I, I feel like all the fish, god, karma should be okay at that point after. Dave (2m 20s): Yeah. Well, well, if you’re okay with it, we’ll have to get a photo of that and put in the show notes so people could take a look at it and see what, what it like looks John (2m 25s): Like. Yeah, I got you. No problem. Yeah, that, Dave (2m 26s): That’d be awesome. So, so yeah, we’re gonna talk Today, you know, mocks and fly club. You told the story about that, how you ended up forgetting your boots and your travel day in Colorado, hiking in your moccasins, and yeah. And so that was a really awesome story. And then the program you guys built, which is this really worldwide, but You specifically have a lot of stuff domestically, and I think the cool thing that you do is your trips aren’t just one price, right? You guys cover everything from the DIY angler all the way up to, you know, like you said, you’re going to Mongolia. So, so today we’re gonna talk about one of these places. I mean, this really is your home water, I think Colorado. It’s a hot place. Yeah. Maybe it’s the, the hottest state in the country for fly fishing, at least one of them. But, and then it has hunting, I think the big game hunting, whether that’s elk or deer or, you know, like anything like it has that too. Dave (3m 9s): Right. So we’re gonna talk a little about hunting talk Colorado, but first off, give us a little update on, you know, maybe your program. This is gonna be going live probably in the, you know, early summer period. What, what’s that look like for you guys? If somebody’s coming in right now and they’re saying, you know, man, John, I want to go fishing. It’s June, that range. What, what are you telling them? John (3m 27s): So June is kind of the end of our runoff season. So usually May is pretty bonkers and you gotta be on Stillwater, right? So we have a lot of snow in Colorado. April is considered mud season. The snow melts, it rolls down the mountains, it rolls into the rivers. So rivers, our runoff season in May is usually pretty large, so your float fishing is kind of blown out. It, the, the flows is just too fast. So walking, waiting and high alpine still water ponds, rivers, all that kind of stuff are still there in June. I mean, it’s, it’s a great time of year just because there’s so much available. I mean, we have, I mean, pretty much everything from Rocky Mountain National Park and Estes up by Fort Collins. John (4m 12s): Then you go over towards like the Yampa and you have Steamboat. So during your runoff season, your true free stones to get technical Yep. Nomenclature going. So the Yampa, the Eagle, and some true free stones. That’s the time of year to be on them is when runoff season comes through and when the flows are correct. Then you also get into stuff all the way over in like Durango with the animus. You can even go down and like dip into like that northern New Mexico at the San Juan, which is another Tailwater, but You got the Taylor, any of those things. And we have, I mean, everything from, like you said, DIY, walkway, days, guided float fishing. If you want to even do like, you know, another step up, we do have a, a plethora of private water that we have available from like Boxwood Gulch, long metal goats, Bartle Lakes, troublesome Creek, hidden Valley Ranch, Abel Ranch. John (5m 5s): I mean, there’s just a a ton of Yeah, there’s a ton. Yeah. And I mean everything from, you know, June, July and August is the summer. So if you’re not in Colorado, that’s usually the time that people are coming to Colorado. And that’s when Hook and Hunt, our lodge over by Glenwood Springs stays packed during the summer. So you could do the Roaring Fork, the frying pan, the lower Colorado. You could also do Harvey Gap, rifle gap. You could go up and do the flat tops, you could do Grand Meses over by Grand Junction, you could do the White River. And that’s when all of it kind of is ready to go for the people that live here in Colorado. A lot of us talk about August and September, obviously being great because there’s not much summer traffic. If you’re looking for big Browns, I would tell you, you, you want that September-ish time, the Browns come out and get real feisty before the spawns go on. John (5m 54s): So that, that always happens and we’re staying off of Reds and staying off of all the spawns. But prior to and after they get active because they’re bulking up and then they have to feed and bulk up again afterwards. So I mean, I think in June, July and August, if you’re looking for something, I always recommend people just to try float fishing. If wherever you live, if you fish the majority of your year in waders and boots standing in water, it’s a big change to be on a boat moving while you’re casting. It’s also just way more water that you get to cover. I know there are anglers out there that are covering, you know, two to three miles in their waders walking around all the time. But a half day in a boat here in Colorado, you’re probably gonna cover six miles of water a full day. John (6m 36s): You could do anywhere from eight to 12. I mean, it gets you a lot of water. Plus there’s two people, you’re in a boat, you’re pretty much whitewater rafting through wherever you’re gonna be. So the scenery is amazing, the fishing is amazing. What you learn from a guide is also probably gonna be a great thing to take back home wherever you’re at. So I mean, those are are easy things. Also, you know, for us here, it’s a lot of time to get into the high alpine. I don’t mean you need to get up to like, you know, 12,000 feet, but if you can get up to eight, 9,000 feet and fish some cutthroat ponds or you can fish some brookie ponds, those are other things that one, you know, you get a hike, you get a, an easy workout, you get out in nature, you’re most likely fishing some new waters, probably some fun stuff with terrestrials and foam. John (7m 21s): You could probably throw streamers as well for any of those diehard meat chuckers that are out there. So, I mean, I think tho that opens up everything you can do. But I mean, for us in Colorado, being our home state and being a place that we spend a ton of time, you know, we start float fishing in April before runoff off do, Dave (7m 39s): Yeah. Okay. So you start in and what is the float Fishing river? What would be one that you guys are covering that and is, is This one where you would do your multi-day trips as well? John (7m 48s): Yeah, so I mean, my personal favorite is the Lower Colorado, and there’s is some easy facts. One, it’s got the most fish per, you know, length of whatever you do, whether you do a hundred yards or a mile or a half mile, whatever. So from Glenwood Springs down to Rifle is probably the, the richest part of the lower Colorado. The upper Colorado has a lot of traffic and does have fish in it. It’s just a different experience for us for when we do our, our trips, we do three nights lodging, two days float fishing on the lower Colorado, and you stay in a place called Silt, which is right outside of Glenwood Springs. So that would be an easy one. John (8m 28s): We, we have people already staying there and fishing in April. Then usually in May it’s a little downtime, but people are fishing, still water as opposed to the river. And then you get back into June, all the way to October, people will be float fishing that if you want a different one, the Arkansas is real good. And that one runs north to south pretty much from like, you know, Buena Vista down into Salida. And if you know where Copper Mountain is, where people ski, if you go south of Copper Mountain, that’s kind of where the Arkansas headwaters start and it rolls all the way down. And you can get into the eagle, the frying pan, you can’t float, but You can walk and wade the Roaring Fork. John (9m 9s): You can float, it gets a little bit more blown out. The Independence Pass water system comes through the Roaring Fork. So in May it gets pretty blown and that empties into the lower Colorado. But for the best blood fishing, you know, a lot of people love saying the Arkansas, I personally love the Lower Colorado. Dave (9m 27s): Yeah, that’s the Glenwood Springs to, what was the, the rifle? John (9m 30s): Yeah, rifle to rifle, yeah. Gotcha. And I mean that’s, you’ll you’ll see a lot of rafting activity that isn’t all fishing like. There’s a lot of just rafting, whitewater rafting. Glenwood Canyon is pretty infamous for some of their hellaciously dangerous rapids and stuff that goes on. Hmm. So you don’t really fish in Glenwood Canyon, but right when you get to Glenwood Springs, the town, that’s where it all starts. And you know, if you’re, if you guys are out there looking for technical boat ramps, you’d be at like two Rivers boat ramp to rifle, boat ramp and anywhere in between. And I want to say off the top of my head, it’s, that’s like 26 miles of water. Dave (10m 6s): Oh, it’s a good float. Yeah. But John (10m 7s): There’s multiple places. You know, I, I personally love South Canyon. The silt is great. You can get out right there where our place is and you know, off the boat ramp in three minutes, you’re back at the house in the backyard hanging out. You can do silt to rifle. That’s usually a lot of bigger fish, but less numbers of fish. All of that is great. And then also, like, if you’re trying to do a multiple day or something, you know, you can float the Colorado River one day, you can go walk and wade the frying pan the next day and, and be in the, you know, infamous scenery of the frying Pan River and all the crazy fish that are 20 years old and have names that never get caught and all the crazy that happens there. Yeah. And that’s more on the Western slope and a little bit further away from Denver. John (10m 50s): If you’re trying to be, you know, on closer to the front range, you can do any of the Cheeseman and Decker stuff is still bumping and rocking all year round. And you have the Arkansas, you could do the Eagle, which is kinda like veil all the way down to, I think it’s 10 not to gypsum. Dave (11m 9s): Okay. What is the front range For those new to the Colorado scene? What is Glenwood Springs? John (11m 14s): So yeah, good, good question. Yeah, my apologies on all the, so when you’re in Denver, you’re in the front range or the eastern side of the Rockies. So everything from like Boulder and Red Rocks, the concert venue all around the Colorado Springs, we’re all considered on the front range of the Rockies or the Eastern slope of the Dave (11m 35s): Rock Eastern. Yeah. Okay. John (11m 35s): Then you get into the Rocky Mountains proper, which would be Breckenridge Bale Veil, Keystone Copper, all of those few resorts that are actually in the middle of the mountains, that’s called the Rockies. So you, we the Blue River, Dylan Reservoir, the Eagle. But yeah, any anything from like Eisenhower Tunnel. Eisenhower Tunnel to Glenwood Canyon. Dave (12m 2s): Okay. So Glenwood Canyon, you get out now you’re out of the mountains and into the west. As John (12m 7s): Soon as you get to the west side of Glenwood Canyon and you’re in Glenwood Springs, then you’re in, in the West Slope. Oh, Dave (12m 13s): The West Slope. Gotcha. And John (12m 14s): If you think about it, you know, when we’re in the front range and in Denver you’re driving uphill, and then in the mountains you’re kind of like in up above. Then as soon as you Glenwood Springs, you start driving downhill again. So the two slopes are the up and down parts of it. So in Colorado, you know, the Western slope reveres themself as the best slope and the, yeah, east, east front range slope, reveres themself as the best slope. And then there’s also the, the mountain folk, which live in the mountains and will tell you that that’s the best, be the one of the slopes is where you want to be. But yeah, like, so if you wanna stay towards the Denver side and the front range side, you know, you have Pueblo, Colorado Springs, Denver, Boulder, Fort Collins, all the main metropolitan areas are on the, the front range Dave (12m 59s): Where it’s sunny, where you don’t get as much precipitation. Right? John (13m 1s): Correct. And then when you get into the mountains, you’re in the, the, the actual mountains all the way down, which is like, you know, Pagosa Springs to Buena Vista, Salida Copper, Frisco, Silverthorne, and that goes all the way up, which most of the northern part of all of those rocky mountains is Rocky Mountain National Park. Yeah. And they have a ton of water that you can fish. And then you hit the Western slope, which would be Glenwood Springs, I guess technically not Aspen and Telluride and all of them. ’cause those are in mountains, but that Glenwood Springs to Grand Junction area is all, that’s Dave (13m 35s): The big part. John (13m 35s): Yeah. Dave (13m 36s): Yeah. And that’s where this run we’re talking about. So people, so who is that on that, who are the guides? Like how does that work? On this Colorado Springs float trip, John (13m 44s): We work with a great group of guys out of Grand Junction area, which is Colorado and Western Slope. But that’s who we use at our lodge is our in-house lodge. There are probably 30 different outfits of guides, and most of them will do boat and walk in. Wade, if you’re talking about the frying pan and the Roaring Fork, you can walk and wade the frying pan. Only you can walk and float the Roaring Fork. And you can pretty much only float the Colorado just ’cause it’s so big. There are people that like to fish from the banks. Yeah. But it’s a large body of water. And the best way to cover all the good spots is mostly in a boat because a lot of the banks are all privately owned. Dave (14m 23s): Oh, so you’re casting over toward Yeah, that’s the thing with Colorado, right. So you’re not anchoring up, you’re, you’re just drifting as you go. John (14m 31s): So if they own both sides of the river, which on the Roaring Fork happens often, you can’t anchor. So an easy way to think about it, in Colorado, the water is public, the riverbed and the earth underneath of it is still considered owned by the, the landowner. When you get to Wyoming and Montana and other states, the high watermark on the bank is where their property line ends and all of the water and the river bed is public. So here in Colorado, you can anchor on a non-public or a non-private side of the water because the middle of the river bed is kind of where that line ends. Now both sides of the river are privately owned. You can’t anchor up there. You Dave (15m 9s): Can’t anchor up. And, and is it the, the trout routes and the apps like that? Or are those the places, like how are you figuring out where your, where’s private, where public, or you just kind of know that, John (15m 18s): I mean, for us, most of it’s just the, the years of being there and knowing. Yeah. A lot of landowners will let you know by sign. Unfortunately, some landowners will come down and let you know in person, which is always a, an awkward kind. I’ll Dave (15m 31s): Bet. John (15m 32s): Yeah. It’s seven o’clock in the morning and they’re having their coffee at their fence post, letting ’em know that you can’t fish there and as long as you’re not anchored up or touching a bank, you can fish there as long as you want. So, I mean, it’s an interesting thing, like the Roaring Fork has a bunch of both sides being private. The biggest one that gets talked about is the blue, the blue river. It was in a big controversy, a bunch of other stuff where it’s about to be considered all private because the owner has lobbied to do that. And so there’s about probably 15 miles where you can’t anchor or touch a side in the blue whatsoever. Yeah. But in the Colorado, there’s public boat ramps, there is pseudo privately owned land, but there’s not too much of it. John (16m 14s): The the good and bad thing is that 70 i 70 highway runs next to the lower Colorado for a little bit. And wherever the highway’s next to it, it’s public. Oh, Dave (16m 23s): It is? John (16m 23s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we can get in and out of a bunch of stuff that way. Now if you come down the Roaring Fork and dump into the lower Colorado and then float the lower Colorado down and through, I mean, you can do long days with a bunch of awesome water. And I think those are all, you know, depending on what people want to get into and, and what they want to have for their day of fishing. But that lower Colorado is my personal Dave (16m 49s): Favorite. Yeah, that’s the easy one. John (16m 50s): Yeah. The Arkansas is another one that a lot of people float. It’s not as big. It does have some traffic on it, but a lot of that is public land also. So you get to stop and fish, you also go right through like downtown Salida, which is a big rafting community and there’s a, a waterpark in there where they have some rapid set up and all kinds of other stuff going Dave (17m 11s): On. Yeah. It’s not just fly fishing. John (17m 13s): Yeah. When you float fish, you get to be a part of other stuff other than just fishing or ripple on foot, you know, you get to see a lot of stuff, you get to see other people, you interact with other people in the water. So those are things I would tell people for multiple day trips. Like, do a day float fishing, see how you like it. Then also do a day doing, you know, what you normally do or whatever. And then you could do another, a different day where you, you know, go to a reservoir or high alpine lake and try to get on some fish that you haven’t caught before. Like in the Grand Mae South by Grand Junction, there’s tigers. If you go to certain places, there’s goldens. I mean there, there’s all kinds of species to go find. Dave (17m 48s): There’s a bunch. So another part of this is the kind of the, the hunt part, right? So you guys have this dialed in for fishing and all these locations we’ve talked about just a couple here. What does that look like with the fishing hunt? Is this something where you can get on one trip, do both of these things? Or maybe talk about your hunt program a little bit? John (18m 4s): Yeah, so we have a property in Sill Colorado that’s located in zone 32. So again, another, another lead up story here in Colorado, there’s a lottery system where you have to have entered into the lottery. Then you get points when you don’t win. And when we say don’t win, like most people go six to 10 years without everyone to tag. Dave (18m 24s): And this is for like big game? John (18m 26s): Yeah. So this would be for elk and, and I would also say it’s in the most desirable zones. There are some zones that don’t have elk that people can get tags easily, but you’re most likely not gonna see a elk there. You want to be in that mountain region to try to find elk. So we have, we have ram, we have elk, we have deer, we have bear, obviously we don’t have Dave (18m 49s): Wolf. No. What about bighorn sheep? John (18m 52s): The rams and the sheep are in there, but those are are hard tags to get as well. So every year when the tags come out, a certain amount of people get certain tags. And that’s only a limited amount of tags per zone. So our property is in zone 32 and it borders 31, 33 and 42. So we spend a lot of time with those four zones. The guides are out there scouting, trying to find stuff. We have hunters that’ll come in and stay at our place and then they’re out every morning going to try to find stuff and then come back late at night. But we do have bow, we have rifle, we, you know, everything that’s in between with the hunting seasons. John (19m 32s): But for our hunting program, we have four different guides that we work with. And what usually happens is that as soon as the tags come out, the seven people that get tags in those four zones reach out to certain outfitters to see what’s going on. Now if you wanna hunt, if you wanna hunt a trophy elk that’s on private land with high fence, none of that applies to what we’re talking about. True. You know, over the counter lottery tag. Dave (19m 56s): Right. So there are places you can go and literally like hunt animals that are like kinda caged in. John (20m 2s): Yeah, Dave (20m 2s): I mean, or fenced in or like is that same John (20m 4s): Yeah, fenced in. Yeah. Yeah, fenced in. Like you can go to certain places out here that may have 10,000 acres and they have animals within those 10,000 acres and they help you find them. And it’s, I will put it this way, what we’re talking about for our hunting program is more like you going to public lands and trying to catch a trout on your own, which is different than going to private property and catching trout, you Dave (20m 25s): Know? Yeah. Private pond. Going to a private pond where there’s, yeah, whatever. John (20m 29s): I don’t, I don’t, I mean, I know both sides of the story and I’m involved in both industries and, and, and I understand it all for our place in the zones that we’re in, usually as soon as the tags are drawn within the next 10 days, there’s only a certain amount of people to get tags in those zones. So those people either reach out to the outfitters and the guides or they reach out to us and then they’re, they’re booking our place to stay. When they do that, then they’re able to get in and out all the time. Like this last year we had guys with ATVs the year before that we had guys that had horses. The year before that we had people that were on foot. So there’s all types of different methods to, for Colorado hunting, the biggest thing is that we wanna be able to have a place for you that you can rest, eat, get a hot shower, and get back out into the hunting world. John (21m 17s): As of right now, we have had a good success with our clients that stay at our property that they’re filling tags, which is a big thing that those hunters want to do when they get the tag. You’re not trying to have a tag and then not fill it and then have to try to work with the state of Colorado to come back and try to fill it. So I, you get the tag for this year, you get a certain amount of time to try to fill that tag. After that, it’s all over. And our, our property’s name is Hook and Hunt. So I mean we, we, we cater to both fishing and hunting Dave (21m 46s): At the same time. Are there people there both fishing and hunting? John (21m 49s): So usually the end of October and Halloween, when it moves from fishing to hunting, there’s not a lot of people trying to be outside in the cold fishing as much. We would take anglers year round, but October to February we’re mostly hunting. And then the whole rest of the year it’s mostly fishing. Dave (22m 7s): Okay. Yeah. Oc Yeah. So October to February, the time when the, eventually the fishing gets, there’s lots of snow. Right. You’re not really doing a lot of fishing out there. Right. And that’s okay. As soon John (22m 14s): As like from Thanksgiving until the end of February, it’s very frozen and cold. And I mean, same thing that we have another property called Rod and Rifle that does the same thing in New Mexico, but we have people that are fishing and hunting in the place in New Mexico at the same time because the San Juan River is flowing year round no matter what. So we may have a group of, of anglers in Monday to Wednesday, and then from Thursday to Sunday we have a, a group of bull that are in there trying to get after it. And that place is done, done very well with, with huntersville and tags. But in Colorado it’s, I mean it’s a very small amount of people that get tags in those zones that we can help facilitate. John (22m 55s): Now if you want to do like a over the counter cow tag for an elk, you can do that. And then you gotta go out and find a cow wherever you can in those zones. Those are, are are different tags. But I mean we’ve had, you know, bird, we have bird hunters waterfall, we have elk, deer, Turkey. I would say for us, the biggest conversations that we have are about elk because they are really high in elevation that time of year when it gets cold and everything gets covered up, that they can eat down low, they’re going up high. So I mean, you got guys that are spending most of their day above 10,000 feet. Oh Dave (23m 34s): Wow. And why are they going up high? Why, why do they go up higher when it gets snowier and colder down low John (23m 39s): Just so they can find stuff to eat? You know, when when the ground scores and the, the food is covered up with snow low, they go up high and that’s where they know that they can find some stuff that may be edible. And I mean, it’s not that they won’t come back down. I mean they cross val, they cross valleys and do other stuff. But if you’re trying to get up high enough to glass and see everything that you need to see in a day and you’re out there, you know, we have people that’ll come, you know, stay at our place for a week, but maybe three of the nights there at a camp in the mountains. And then they come back, you know, change out clothes, get a hot shower, make up some more food, and then go back out to the camp. So the hunting in Colorado is rugged and cold and it’s also just hard. Like there’s a lot of places that are hard. John (24m 20s): It’s easier to get a tag in New Mexico than it is in Colorado. It’s real hard to get a tag in Colorado and Wyoming and Montana ’cause there’s just so many people putting in for tags. Dave (24m 29s): Yeah. Especially for elk and the big, yeah. Prize species. John (24m 32s): Now if you wanna do, if you wanna do real big stuff for Grizzly Bear and Black Bear and Wolf in Moose, we have an outfitter in Alaska that we deal, we deal with a lot and most of the guys that spend a lot of time at Hook and Hunt here in Colorado eventually try to get up with the guys in Alaska to go after something next. Dave (24m 52s): Oh, okay. And what part of Alaska is that? John (24m 55s): So our outfitter’s based around Lake Elna. So you fly into Anchorage and then you got an hour flight out to Ilena to stay there and then you’re, you’re out with them until it happens. The big ones for them are Grizzly and moose. Those are the, the big attractions. But brown bear, Ram and sheep and wool for the other ones that they have. Right, Dave (25m 15s): Right, right. Gosh. So there you go. So that’s a little on your hunting operation. Well you know, taking it back to again, sticking in Colorado and you guys, we’ve mentioned at the start, and we have the first episode we did where we talked more about broadly about all your places. But if we stick in Colorado, take us again around Colorado. You know, you mentioned a little bit the frontline, the East, where else you got the place in Glenwood Springs, the Colorado, you mentioned the Arkansas. What other operations or places would you recommend or you know, hot spots for you guys? John (25m 41s): So Steamboat Springs in the Yampa River are always a hot conversation. It’s the, the Yampa is a fun one. It is a free stone. It, it’s kind of hit or miss depending on the time of the year. So you gotta get there when it’s going. Right. So that would be, what is that Northwest ish, then you got Rocky Mountain National Park, which has an abundance of stuff. You can do DIY fishing. There, there are, we have guides that can work within the, the national park with you as well. So that’s where you can find a lot of the Dave (26m 11s): Smaller species and higher stuff. John (26m 14s): Yeah, smaller species, but you know, cutthroats and San Juan Cutthroats and, and different fish that are up in the National Park that is, you know, able to, you you fished and caught fish, you know, fly fishing in, in Rocky Mountain National Park is cool. Then you get into Fort Collins, which would be northeast and there’s a, a bunch of stuff in Fort Collins from, you know, horse Tooth Reservoir into the Puter River. Then you come down into the Boulder, south Boulder Creek, you got Denver, the South Platte, Deckers, Cheeseman, Colorado Springs and Pueblo has the Arkansas and Pueblo Reservoir. Once you get into the mountains, then you’re, you’re all over the place with, you know, the, the Eagle and the Blue Green Mountain Reservoir. John (27m 1s): Wow. Dave (27m 2s): And you guys are covering all these places you mentioned you have guides and operations and John (27m 6s): Yes, so we have, yeah, pretty much the entire state. The only, well I guess no we still have, we have Durango and the Animus and Pagosa Springs and the San Juan. We have all that covered as well. And then the Colorado River. The Colorado River runs, you know, all the way from the upper Colorado coming outta Rocky National Park all the way through Glenwood Springs, then out into Grand Junction and, and down. So I mean, yeah, the, the whole state in some realm over another, I think Gore Creek and downtown Vail is public. Dave (27m 41s): So Vail, so they’re even in Vail in the middle of the Rocky Mountains. There’s some the town. Oh yeah, John (27m 45s): Yeah, yeah. I mean the Gore Creek runs, right? Like when you’re in Vail walking through downtown Vail from like one part to the other, gore Creek runs right through the middle and you, it’s public so you can fly fish on your own in there. And I think one of our guide services works on that one. So you have the eagle that comes out by minter, the gore runs into the eagle. The eagle then runs into the Colorado, the frying pan runs into the Roaring Fork. The Roaring Fork runs into the Colorado. Dave (28m 14s): What about the North east and southeast part of the state where you’re getting towards Kansas, Nebraska, which is the places you don’t hear a lot about fishing is there, is there, right. John (28m 23s): Yeah. So there’s not a lot of water out by, I think it’s Sedgwick and Hope. And so yeah, when you get out towards Nebraska, the the after Fort Collins, the next part would actually be in going into Nebraska to go fish some of those lakes that are there. And there’s a big walleye lake that a lot of people like to try through in Nebraska. And then in the Southeast, once you get past Pueblo in the Arkansas, there’s not a lot out there that’s available FishWise now I think there probably, you know, are ponds and some things around that you may be able to get to. Yeah, we don’t know or have access to those. But that’s the other part of, you know, what we’re talking about is river and creek systems. John (29m 4s): But there’s a huge aspect of high a pond lake and high reservoirs and stuff like that that some, you know, reservoirs may have a function into a tailwater. Like if you’re at Rudi Reservoir, you’re a fish in the water that goes into the frying pan. Yeah. But like Rudi and Rifle and Harvey Gap and Grand Mesa Lakes, I mean there’s 30 something lakes above Grand Junction in the Grand Mesa system that, I mean they have tigers and brookies and browns rainbows and all kinds of stuff. And there our guides don’t work those. But we have a lot of clients that DIY fish, all of those zones. And I mean that’s the allure to Colorado I think with fly fishing in general is that not only are there river and streams that are worlds famous like Deckers and Cheeseman and the frying pan. John (29m 51s): Yeah. And gold medal, blue, whatever. We also have an abundance of other water that is just, I mean, right off the top of Ba Pass you can do the Black Lakes, which is like two different lakes at the pull off at the summit of Vail Pass. And those have trout in them if you want to go catch something there while you’re just driving on I 70. Dave (30m 9s): Yeah, gotcha. No, it sounds like, so there’s, I mean, a ton of opportunity in Denver and then as you move down into New Mexico, is that Yeah, yeah. The San Juan, is that a more focused on a certain river system or what does that look like down there? John (30m 22s): So the San Juan starts up in the San Juan Mountains, comes outta Colorado and goes down into New Mexico. And the reservoir is called Navajo Reservoir, which is the biggest reservoir in New Mexico House boats, party coves, bass, fishermen, powerboats, whatever are on Navajo Reservoir. And that reservoir, the dam flows and starts what’s called the San Juan River underneath. So if you’re talking about the, the quality waters and the Barbless only hooks, the braids and the San Juan and all that stuff are directly below the dam of the Navajo Reservoir and the Pecos and some other stuff. There’s one, the Pecos is the one that’s down closer to Albuquerque. John (31m 4s): The Pinos. The Chama. There’s some stuff by Santa Fe and Taos as well. Yeah, Dave (31m 10s): Taos. Right. John (31m 11s): Our lodge that’s down there is, is right off of the San Juan River. And it’s in a, a bunch of, of specific hunting zones as well. We have a lot of people that will fish all over Colorado, but then every now and then they’ll go down to New Mexico at the San Juan. You just have a chance at that, that infamous 30 inch fish that we talked about last time, about 26 or 28 inch trout. Yeah, there’s big browns, big rainbows, there’s carp, bunch of stuff in the San Juan where it’s, I mean there are guides there in a day doing a hundred fish in a net a day. Dave (31m 43s): Oh wow. So this is the Tailwater. So this is outta the Navajo dam. The most popular, the, that place is that the Tailwater, that section how many miles down then it goes into like Farmington, how many miles have John (31m 53s): River? Yeah. Yes. Your top, like half of a mile is called the braids and it’s walk and wait only then from Texas hole to Crusher Hole is three miles, which is considered the part of the quality waters that’s fly fish. Only once you hit crusher hole all the way down, you can then, you know, as they would call like bait fish or spin fish. And I have done the braids, I’ve done the quality waters a ton. I’ve fished all of the bait, the lower waters as well, I think from Texas hole all the way down to Bloomfield, which is the closest town city is like 16 miles or something. Okay. Dave (32m 29s): 16. Yeah. John (32m 30s): And there are some real lovely big browns that aren’t in the quality water and in the fly fishing only water, but the water itself coming out of the dam runs 24 7, 365. It’s always 43 degrees. Oh wow. So it fishes year round. It never freezes. Hmm. The only thing that changes a lot is the flow and what’s going on around the river. Right. So like you, you have the ant hatch at some point throughout the year when the ants come out and the first rain comes and it rains all these ants into the river. Yeah. You got a lot of other things where, you know, hoppers may work, streamers may work, dry flies almost work year round in certain places. But when you get past crusher hole and you get out of the, the fly fishing only water, there’s not a ton of guys that are running their boats and float fishing and stuff in there. John (33m 18s): There’s, there’s millions of people that go there a year to fish. So there’s a lot of pressure. And so Dave (33m 22s): Is it float? Can you float fish there? Float out of a boat? John (33m 25s): Yeah, so you can go pretty much from Texas all all the way to, to Bloomfield. You can float, you may have to put it around some stuff here or there, but the lower part, the non-quality water lower part is what I kind of have, have decided this year will be my focus from our, our lodge that’s there. ’cause I can put in right at the town boat ramp by where old school apes used to be. And then float down and check out all kinds of new water that still has a bunch of fish in it. And I mean, the line at the San Juan is every day you’re gonna hold a 20 inch fish. Dave (33m 53s): Really? It’s that good. John (33m 55s): Yeah. I mean there’s just too many fish to speak of. Dave (33m 57s): It’s crazy. Wow. And, and, and what’s and where is your lodge located? John (34m 1s): So our place is three acres right in Blanco. So where, where like San Juan, the, what is it called? Navajo Village Dam is a community which is where Abe’s and the post office and everything is. We’re five minutes down river from where they’re at. So I mean we’re 12 minutes from Texas hole by car. Dave (34m 21s): Okay. 12. Yeah. So Blanco and then, and then what would be a trip? So you guys are putting together like a, do you have a time of year that you’re setting this up? Or what would be a good if you had a few days? John (34m 30s): Usually we do one in May, like we talked about in Colorado it’s runoff time. So like a lot of the rivers are kind of blown up here. So we usually do a three night, two day float fishing in May. And then in September we do another three night, two day float fishing because the weather’s still pretty in September. Here in Colorado it may be getting chillier, but down there in New Mexico it’s still pretty warm. Plus again it’s big brown season. So we, we kind of focus around that. The angler that loves big Browns is a, a a a truly demented person. ’cause they’re just, they want big browns for some reason. Big rainbows are cool, big cutthroats are awesome, big Brooks are fantastic. John (35m 10s): But there’s a whole group of people out there that just really like catching big brown fish. So Right. Dave (35m 14s): Which are not easy always to catch right? In the big ones. John (35m 16s): No, it’s not, not. So, yeah, so we do, we usually do a may trip down there that’s hosted with one of our people and then we also do a September one down there and we do a September one in Colorado also. Usually it’s like the second week in September we’re up here in Colorado and the third week in September we’re down in, in New Mexico. But those lodges are open year round. So you know, if, if you need a place to stay or wanna get out there and fish on your own, we have dates and rooms available you can go do that. Oh, Dave (35m 44s): You do. So this is lodge you guys Yeah. Do this year round. John (35m 47s): Yeah, so we, yeah, we own the place in Silk, Colorado and we own the place in Blanco, New Mexico. So I mean it’s year round facilitating it. Our own moccasin hosted trips are those May and September. Yeah. But I see. But You can go there and fish on your own. You can go there and stay there and hire a guide if you want to. Dave (36m 5s): Gotcha. So this is a cool, so if you, they could check in with you if somebody’s listening down, they’re like, man, I’m gonna be down there in August. Yeah. We, they just call you up. And, and what does that look like? Is the place, like, could you get a, do you book the whole place? Is it a, a house or what, what does the lot, what does it look like? John (36m 20s): Yeah, so the, the New Mexico place has seven beds, sleeps eight to 10 people and that’s one 60 a night. And then the place up here in Colorado is six beds, sleeps seven to nine people and is 180 a night. And when you do, you do rent it, you get the whole place. We initially started with doing different rooms, but with cleaning and et cetera, it’s easier just to have it all to yourself. Dave (36m 44s): Yeah. Oh wow. So that’s awesome. So you can just rent basically. And, and this is, is this like on your own, not through VRBO and all that stuff? Or is it, John (36m 53s): I mean we, a lot of people run it through Airbnb just because it handles everything. We have some people that reach out to us directly and we can figure that out too. It doesn’t really bother us how you decide you wanna do it. We are there for it. And I will say for any groups that are listening, like if you’re a veterans group or you’re a women’s group or you’re a what, whatever type of charity or or group or something, we’re always open to having people come. We had the Healing road down in New Mexico about a month ago. We have healing waters that uses the one in Colorado. Like if, if you have something that’s going on, we’re more than open to figure out how to get there. You get a full kitchen the whole place to yourself. They’re both three bedrooms with two or three baths. John (37m 35s): You get the whole front yard backyard, there’s a fire pit at the one in New Mexico. That’s sweet. But yeah, I mean it’s a, it’s a whole kind of like central hub to have your group there for, for the fishing trip. And that’s fishing or hunting, neither one that you gotta do. We’re open to any of Dave (37m 49s): It. Yeah. So hunting and same thing with down there, you got the same, the hunting opportunities down there. John (37m 54s): Yep. Dave (37m 54s): Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. That’s cool. Yeah, so if you wanted, you could look into that or if you wanted to get more of the all-inclusive now do you do the all-inclusive down there for this trip? Do you cover food and stuff like that? John (38m 4s): I mean we can, we, we call it more of like grocery list stuff. Like you have to hire the guides to do the, the grocery list part just because the guides are the people on site that’ll be going to get everything. But in Colorado or New Mexico, if you wanna do a grocery list and have, you know, a case of beer and some food in the fridge when you show up, if you hire the guides then we have an an extra cost and they’ll go pick everything up and and have it there before you show up. Mm. They have the codes to be able to get into the places and set everything and we do the same thing, grocery list thing like that for our New Orleans trips. Like Dave (38m 39s): Okay, same thing. John (38m 40s): Yeah. So you know, we’ll do, there’s a certain, well you gotta do a a, you gotta pay for all the groceries obviously and then there’s a fee on top and then we have somebody go pick it all up, drop it all off, put it in the fridge when you check in at three or four o’clock or whatever, everything’s already there waiting for you. Gotcha. Dave (38m 55s): That’s John (38m 56s): Cool. We do that for the Colorado house. We do that for the New Mexico Lodge and we do that for our New Orleans trips. Dave (39m 2s): Okay. So yeah, it’s kind of like a hybrid a little bit. It’s not fully all inclusive, although it’s pretty much everything except for cooking the food for you. Right. Sounds like. John (39m 10s): Yeah. And then the, I mean the other thing that can happen too, like on our New Orleans ships we’ll stop at a grocery store and let everybody get their own thing. If you don’t want to have it there ahead of time. In Colorado and New Mexico, the majority of people that are flying in, they’re gonna stop and get what they want on the way in or you know, if you’re already on the road driving around, you probably have a ton of stuff. So you do have, and there’s washers and dryers and everything too. So people are doing laundry, getting ready and stopping over and fishing in between their next spot or whatever. But yeah, all of that’s part of it for sure. Dave (39m 40s): Wow, this is great. Okay, well I mean I guess we’ve been kinda zooming around Colorado and New Mexico. Any other highlights? We, we kinda went through the rundown in Colorado, so in, in the New Mexico, is this your main area? Is it this section that you guys are fishing for? Yeah, yeah, John (39m 55s): Yeah. I spend, I probably do about 20 or 25 days down there. One just being on site to check on the property, do any work that needs to happen. Fish I love doing evening floats in Texas holes, so I’ll just put the boat in at Texas Hole and fish for a couple hours till sundown and then take the boat out at Texas Hole and, and go back home. Yep. I love walking the braids. I mean you can get into some gigantic fish up in the braids above where the, the floating section starts. But yeah, the, the San Juan River is, is the main part. The only other thing in that area that’s worth it is during the summer there’s a lot of high alpine, you know, stuff in the La Plata Mountain stuff in the San Juan Mountain, stuff in the Rocky Mountains. John (40m 37s): If you wanna do like a three hour drive and get up up high in elevation, you can get into some unbelievable stuff in that zone too. Dave (40m 43s): What’s that may trip look like for the San Juan? What are you guys fishing? Is this something where you’re getting dry fly or is a little mix? John (40m 50s): So at the San Juan there’s a, a thing called the San Juan Slam, which is a streamer, a nymph, and a dry fly. You gotta catch a fish on each in one day. Oh yeah. So we usually put that challenge up to everybody that comes in May and September that, you know, if you hit the, if you hit the San Juan Slam on this trip, we have like a little sticker that guide to give out that says San Juan Slam. But almost year round, I still think it’s possible that you can do streamer dry and nymph all on the same day, out of the same boat to get the San Juan Slam. I personally love the streamers and I love the top water eats, so I love the dry flies. Sometimes it, you just gotta, you gotta be subsurface with an indicator and that’s just how it goes for that day. John (41m 33s): Day. Dave (41m 33s): Yeah. When something’s going on, something’s changing. They’re not on the dry eyes. Streamers is unique. Right, because that’s not easy to do either, I mean right. John (41m 40s): No, no, no. And especially not in such a, a technical place. Yeah. You can only have one barbless hook per fly per the, the laws in New Mexico for that area. So you’re already not you, you can’t throw articulated anything. You gotta throw a single hook. Then there’s certain times of day that I think the streamers are, are what they would say is the best. Yeah. Dave (41m 59s): When is that? When, when, when are stream, when are you pulling out streamers during the day? John (42m 3s): I mean I, I think, you know, you generally you can’t be in there after dark, but I would imagine a streamer after dark would probably go bonkers. Dave (42m 11s): Oh, gotcha. Yeah. ’cause those browns are, they’re out there hunting. Yep. John (42m 14s): Yeah. So that, that end of the day Texas Hole float around that. I, I do, when I’m done with working on the property, I, I’m usually hucking meat as, as far as I can on that one later at night right before sundown. And then I think, you know, you’ll find earlier in the morning is probably better, much like anything. But I mean my, the biggest fish I’ve ever caught down there have eaten the smallest bugs pot. I mean there’s throwing size 22, 24, stuff like that. It, it’s a, that works very technical wild place. So Dave (42m 44s): Yeah. Gotcha. Wow. And is it in May, I’m guessing, is it not quite as busy as it will be in the summer or is that river always gets some pressure? John (42m 52s): Yeah, so same thing as we talked about before, like trying to stay out of the June, July, August when it’s like top season. So we like to do May September just because it gives us a little bit of like what, what we would call the shoulder seasons. I love June, July and August. It’s just we’re trying to have experience all the lodges as available as possible, all the guides as available as possible. So for us to do a trip in the middle of July is not the same as people just coming through. So yeah, the May trip it’s not, I mean in New Mexico at that point it’s full fret spring, it’s gonna be warmer and nice. Probably won’t have too much wind looking in some great fishing and it’s not the summer and then in September it’s just the fact that it’s, it’s after the summer bustle and it’s also big brown time and Dave (43m 35s): Big brown. Is that when you guys start, is it kind of September that’s when the, you really start getting back on the Browns? John (43m 39s): I think so. I mean you’ll get into Browns year round, but You, everybody will, will notice that, you know, before the brown spawn in the fall, Browns start to eat a lot more because they need to bulk up for the spawn and then after the spawn it gets a little colder but they need to to replenish after spawning for however long. So like before the spawn brown trout get real pissy. Yeah. So they snap at a lot of stuff. They maybe eat some stuff that they maybe wouldn’t have eaten. Sometimes they’re looking for a bigger meal maybe. So streamers will work but those aggressive browns are, are out there and after it, before they’re gonna go spawn and that’s a great time to try to get one of ’em on the line. Dave (44m 19s): Yeah, perfect, perfect. Well on the last episode we talked a little bit about the DIY and kind of chatting about some tips there and you mentioned that it’s a good thing to do your work, right? If you’re coming down to do this trip, let’s just think somebody’s thinking San Juan, they’re going to either maybe do that hosted trip with you or just grab, you know, the the thing, but they wanna get information what today’s Friday, so we’re gonna do a fly shop Friday today. But do you have a shop down in that area that you would recommend they could check in with or, and you could talk Colorado as well? John (44m 46s): Yeah, two of ’em. So I mean our place is called Rod and Rifle but our in-house guides are about trout. Dave (44m 51s): Oh, about trout, yeah. John (44m 52s): Yeah, James at About Trout is probably one of the top three fishies human beings I talk to on, yeah, on a, on a regular basis. I mean that not only are there is there YouTube going crazy but they are finger on the pulse on what’s happening at the San Juan. So about trout.com would be the one to check out. As far as a fly shop, Tom at Los Pinos outta Albuquerque is, you know, remarkable at what’s going on at the San Juan and other places. He’s got guys that were on the US Gold medal team that are working with him and doing different stuff with Norm and the boys that are at the Los Pinos fly shop. John (45m 32s): So specifically for the San Juan Trout and Los Pinos would be the two hands down. They also are, I mean, great friends of mine and all three of us handle the, the river cleanup every March. So usually Mar March 1st every year we do a big San Juan River cleanup, which is about trout, los Pinos and Moccasin are the, the three parts of it. So I mean, if you call up Los Pinos, tell him Hunt at Moccasin says hi. If you call up about trout, tell James that Hunt and Moccasin said that he catches bigger fish than he does or something like that. Yeah, Yeah. Those guys are, I mean, heart and soul of what happens at the San Juan. Dave (46m 10s): That’s cool. Yeah, I think the San Juan, there’s a number of, you know, these rivers that are well known and San Juan for sure sticks out. You know, I think it, yeah. Is it mainly because of what you’re saying, it’s this year round tail water where you can catch these giant potential browns? Or why do you think that this river? Yeah, John (46m 25s): Yeah. I mean I think there’s, there’s a long history at the San Juan, I mean, New Mexico decided that this was gonna be an outdoor revenue stream. So I mean there’s millions of people a year that come to the San Juan just to fish. They stock and protect and take care of that stretch of river like no other. The rangers are are great people. They’re always there. They’re always looking out for what’s going on. They’re real friendly. So, I mean, I think that there’s, there’s also a history of like, your grandfather may have fished at the San Juan and caught big fish there. Your father probably had gone there and caught big fish there. I mean, for me, being a, a Coloradan, I had heard about it for years before I ever went down there. John (47m 5s): And then finally I talked to James, I think for like an hour or so on the phone, and he was like, look man, like come down and just see what it is in person. And ever since then, you know, I’ve held 20 inch fish, 26 inch fish. I have caught a nine pound 30 inch brown down there. That was ridiculous. Like, I mean, I’ve, I’ve gotten into those fish and it, and it’s remarkable to take people there. And while you float in the river, you see hundreds of fish. I mean, and they’re well taken care of. They’re big. It’s all barbless catch and release fly fishing only. I mean, it puts it into one of those fly fishing meccas. Like, you know, the flying pan is real challenging and you may get a big fish. John (47m 46s): The White River is a whole different type of fishery, but You could get a big brown. The San Juan is just that place that’s in New Mexico where, I mean, you’re standing in the middle of like a Roadrunner Wally Coyote cartoon. Dave (47m 58s): Oh, right, yeah. You’re kind of in the desert a little bit. It feels like that. Yeah, you’re, John (48m 1s): You’re in that high mountain desert, you’re fishing to big fish. You could have a 60 fish day and out of those 60 fish you could catch, you know, 10 that are 20 inches or so. Or you could just have the craziest day and, and catch one big gigantic fish. But I mean, the, the San Juan used to be even bigger than it is now. I mean, like in the eighties it was a thriving fly fishing mecca because of how many fish and how big and all the browns, I will say, I think there’s a a, so all the browns in there weren’t native. I mean they’re, they’re now, they’re now wild though. The rainbows don’t reproduce. Only the browns reproduce. Dave (48m 39s): Oh, gotcha. Like the John (48m 40s): 30 inch brown hen that I caught. That’s a wild self-made reproduced. Dave (48m 47s): Right. For years progeny of wild progeny. John (48m 50s): Yeah. The rainbows don’t reproduce because that’s how they worked out the whirling diseases and some of the issues with the rainbow trout. So they’re restocking ’em. The rainbows are still super old. They’re just now reproducing on their own. When those browns come out and spawn the browns are, are making themselves and making their population bigger all on their own. You’re not catching a native brown, but You are catching a wild brown that has survived down there. And I think there’s something to be said for all of, depending on how, you know, how deep you want to get into that. But yeah, I mean, I mean the, the San Juan has some crazy legends and crazy stuff going on it. There’s nothing else around it. It’s still very rugged and raw. Yeah. And you get down there, I mean there, the closest gas station to where we’re at is probably 20 minutes. John (49m 35s): There’s no grocery store, there’s no fast food. Oh Dave (49m 37s): Yeah, yeah, because you’re in Blanco, there’s nothing you gotta go to. Like what? Farmington is the first town. John (49m 43s): Yeah. You can get to Bloomfield is a little closer and they’re smaller. I mean it’s got a sonic and a gas station, whatever. And then if you go to Farmington, it’s, it’s an actual city. Kinda like Durango. Yeah. Farmington is probably 40 minutes. Bloomfield is like 30, but I mean, when you get there, the stars are out at night. You’re in the middle of the sage brush. Oh, amazing. Dave (49m 59s): You John (49m 60s): Feel like you’re in a John Wayne Western going out to fish. It’s an awesome experience. Dave (50m 3s): That’s what’s cool. Yeah. And then Albuquerque is down kind of in the middle of the state a little more. And that’s where you’d be flying. John (50m 8s): Yeah. So it’s like two and a half hours south you’d be in Albuquerque. Dave (50m 11s): That’s cool. Well, I think this year, or, well maybe not this year, but maybe next year we’ll be talking more because I think I’d love to, I’ve been talking about this for a while, so I think this might be the time that, you know, the San Juan is coming to fruition. Yeah. John (50m 24s): As we say moccasin when and where, man, you just tell me when and where. And we got you. Dave (50m 27s): Yeah, you got it covered. Cool. Well, we started off This one today talking a little bit about the Colorado and hunting, you know, and the, the hunt program you have there, the fishing and, and we kind of moved south, but we didn’t talk about everything else you have coming. So we’re gonna be following up with you on another one. But before we get outta here, John, do you wanna, anything we missed today just about Colorado and Jenna? I know we didn’t hit it on all, but any high level about this or you know, San Juan, you want to John (50m 49s): No, I mean, I, I, the easiest one is, you know, come out to Colorado and see what it’s like, you know, on your own. If you’re close to Colorado, it’s easy to get here. If you’re back east and you’re looking at places to go, give us a call, we can figure it out. I mean, there’s a lot of places back east that we could probably help you find, but it’s always cool to be in the mountains and be in a boat, whether it’s New Mexico, Wyoming, Colorado, wherever as we talked about last time, right? Like it’s just come out and find new waters and experience some new stuff and, and you know, become a better angler. And that’s what we’re here for. Dave (51m 20s): Yeah, I think it’s cool because like we said, this operation, we really focus it today on, on the San Juan. But the cool thing is, like we said on the previous episode is you’ve got all these options, you know, you can spend, do a hosted trip or you can spend less, just get a night or two, right? And you got this place in, in Blanco there where you can just grab the place and just hang out. Sure. I mean, for a thousand bucks, I’m guessing you could probably have a pretty good trip on your own down there, right? John (51m 43s): Oh, I think, I mean you can probably get for six, 700 bucks. You can get three nights, four nights in at the house and fish on your own. I think if you want the guides and the other stuff, then it’s a little bit different. But yeah, I mean there’s, there’s ways to make it all work, but I think that, I talked to a lot of people that are trying to figure out if they want to go travel and I think it, I always try to change that and it’s when you wanna go travel, even, even if it’s next year, let’s start figuring something out and get you out to some new waters and let you see what’s out there and then, you know, you can decide if you like it or not. You can always go back to the same place or you can decide to go somewhere new that’s on you. Yeah, Dave (52m 17s): Yeah. It’s, and that’s a cool thing about the connection with all the guides because you’re gonna for sure learn something Even if you don’t catch the trophy fish on that trip, right? John (52m 24s): Yeah. I mean, any day you go out and fish on your own, you pro and you talk to other anglers, you may learn something when you talk to a guide, you know, you may have 10, 15 years of experience that you get to cover in a day. So there’s a lot of things to learn in that one day on a boat. Dave (52m 38s): Yeah, amazing. Cool, John, well we’ll send everybody out to moccasin fly club.com if they have questions, they can check you out on Instagram as well. And yeah, this has been awesome, man. I, I love that we’re going deeper down kinda the rabbit hole of what you guys have and, and the more we get into it, the more you realize like, this is a, a cool operation, you know what I mean? And it’s just about giving people opportunities. So I appreciate your time today and we’ll look forward to that next one. John (52m 59s): Awesome man. Thanks a lot, Dave. Dave (53m 2s): All right. If that doesn’t get you fired up, I don’t know what will. San Juan, Colorado. If you’re interested in any of these trips, go to moccasin fly club.com, check in with John, let ’em know you heard this podcast check in with me as well. If you’re interested in us putting together one of these trips, we’re gonna be bumping our way around the country and, and always want to hear from you. If you’ve got some interest, Colorado, New Mexico hunting, fishing, check in right now. All right, I want to get outta here pretty quick, but just wanna let you know, if you’re interested in checking out Wetly Swing Pro, go to wetly swing.com/pro and this is the best chance to get some of our travel discounted details and, and we can follow up with you there. Dave (53m 43s): All right, we’re excited for the next one. I gotta get outta here. I hope you’re having a great evening, a great morning, or a great afternoon, and we look forward to hearing from you and seeing you on the next episode. Talk to you then.