704 | The Perfect Packable Fly Rod with Jeff Ditsworth – Pescador on the Fly, El Rey, Versa Pack

Dave (2s): If you think about it right now, what is your most important piece of gear when traveling for a fly fishing adventure? And on that same note, what’s your most annoying piece of equipment that you have to travel with? If you were thinking of your fly rod, then we’ve got an amazing solution Today on the podcast, we’re gonna break down the six piece travel rod and why this might be a game changer for you This year. This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip. And what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. How’s it going? I’m Dave host of the We Fly Swing podcast. I’ve been fly fishing since I was a little kid. I grew up around a little fly shop and have created one of the largest fly fishing podcasts in this country. Dave (42s): I’ve also interviewed more of the greatest fly anglers and business owners than just about anyone out there. Jeff diss worth Pescador on the fly owner and fly fishing travel expert is gonna walk us through his line of rods, including the six piece el hee and el ray lines. We’re gonna find out what the most common misconception is about the six piece rod. We also discover how he was able to get a super high quality rod to the market in six pieces and why he created the trout hero bag for Trout Unlimited. Plus, you’re gonna get Jeff’s morning routine. This might be a game changer for you. We’re gonna love it, Jeff, with the morning routine. I’m excited for this one today. Dave (1m 22s): You know, I love travel, so let’s get into this one. Here we go. Jeff Titsworth from Pesca Tour on the fly.com. How you doing, Jeff? Jeff (1m 31s): I’m doing great, thanks. Dave (1m 33s): Yeah, thanks for putting this together. We’re gonna jump into, you know, a lot on, on your company, you know, Pescador on the fly. We’re gonna talk about this rod you have, which is pretty unique. I think six pieces, you know, I think is something you don’t see all the time out there. We’re gonna talk about that, maybe a little bit of travel, but let’s just, before we get into all the pescador, let’s bring it back to fly fishing. How’d you get into it and what’s your first memory? Jeff (1m 55s): You know, I’d say my first memory was probably camping with my dad. And, you know, my, my grandfather, they had fly rods, very, very old stuff. And we would fly fish all over the place when we would go camping. And I specifically, most of my fly fishing started out on lakes ponds, that kind of thing. So we’d be fishing for blue gills or bass or whatever. And it was a different way of fishing back then. You know, when I was pretty little, that was, was kind of intriguing to me. And it would, I don’t know, I, I got hooked pretty early. Yeah. Dave (2m 27s): And, and so, and what were the rods? I, I’m interested in the rod stuff. It’s gonna be cool today because we’re gonna talk about your rods, which I have one, they’re great, they’re really clean and we’re gonna talk about that. But I’m interested also in the, the older rods, because we just had a guest on Chris Koic who’s a fly casting, you know, champion instructor. Yeah. And he’s the guy that taught basically Maxine McCormick, who was the 10-year-old who won, beat all the men in the world to be the champion, you know, at 11. And he talked about the rods that they used and they used these rods, specifically rods from like the seventies and eighties. Jeff (3m 2s): Interesting. Dave (3m 2s): Which because of the way they are full flexing, you know, the fact that, and he made this, he talked about how, you know, the full flexing rod is really nice because especially for beginners, you get a feel of the line. Right. So I’m really interested in that conversation, you know, today. ’cause we’re gonna talk a little bit about this, but what were those rods back then with? Weird, do you remember what those were? Jeff (3m 21s): Yeah, I mean, back then, the first one I started using was my grandfather’s bamboo rod. And, you know, that that was just what I had. And that was, that was what I was what I was given to you. So it’s, yeah, that it was bamboo. Dave (3m 32s): Yeah. Gotcha. So that’s it, bamboo. And so there’s, talk about a full flexing rod, that’s one of ’em. And so after that, what was the, the process like to getting up, take it full, you know, we’ll skip ahead Pescador. When does this come to be as a, as a brand? Jeff (3m 44s): I’m an executive in the financial services space and I, I’ve been traveling since, call it the early two thousands, all over the country. Training, mentoring, coaching that kind of different people on specific, you know, financial planning concepts. And I would find myself all the way from the west coast, east coast, Florida, you know, all, all over the Midwest. And when I first started traveling, I thought to myself, what better opportunity than to explore some of these places I’d never been and bring a fly rod with me. So I was bringing, you know, my normal four section 30, 32 inch tube with me running through an airport in a suit and back, back then a tie. And you know, it was just like, okay, this is kind of a pain. Jeff (4m 25s): It’s like I, I’m gonna go fish in the Marriott parking lot pond for a bass over here. And I’m like, I don’t know, this is just too much of a pain. So I started searching to see if there was a really, really good travel rod and I found the seven section rods on the market through a pretty major brand. I don’t think they make ’em anymore, but I thought that was the answer. And I got one and I got it out and casted it and it felt like a telephone pole. It was heavy, it just, I hated it. I’m a gear guy, so I love nice equipment. So it just, I don’t know, it didn’t feel right. So I stopped bringing a fly ride with me for many, many years and probably, probably a decade went by and I decided that I really wanted to maybe see if there was something that I could do inside the fly fishing industry that would make me fish more, that would make me get outdoors more. Jeff (5m 14s): And you know, obviously, you know, best case scenario, maybe we can make a little money on the side and start a business out of it. So I, you know, I started reading, started doing tons of research, started trying to find some of these factories at the major brands are using to manufacture their fly rods. I found some of them and just probably went into two years of r and d mode where we started getting prototypes built and I’m like, Nope, too heavy, Nope, too stiff, you know, that type of thing. And I, I finally had a, a factory make one that was pretty good. And it, we started off with a seven section rod called El cinco. And El el Cinco was a five, five weight, nine foot seven section rod. And it was way better than anything that I, I’d found on the market, but it still wasn’t great. Jeff (5m 58s): So, you know, we launched with that product and, you know, got some good traction, got our name out there, really partnered with Tu to, you know, give some back and do some good good with the money that we were, we were earning through sales. And that was fun ’cause it good network people there. And you know, from there I just, I didn’t stop trying to make these rods more and more epic. And then we found a, an another group that made a prototype for us with a six section rod, which is where the L hefe series was built, which is now our mid-level section of rods and l hefe was, was a significant step forward for us with performance and, you know, the feel, the, the weight. Jeff (6m 40s): It was a great step forward from there. We launched econ 1 0 1, which is our entry level set of gear. We’re making both of those in four and six section rods because, you know, six section rods aren’t the right tool for the job all the time. But when you’re traveling and maybe you’re not going on a specific week long fly fishing destination, you’re going on a family vacation, you wanna bring a great fly rod with you. The 30 inch tube or the fourth section rod probably isn’t the right tool for the job if these six section rods feel incredible. Yeah, Dave (7m 10s): That’s what I like about it. Jeff (7m 12s): Yeah, I mean, you know, you, you might, I don’t wanna bring, you know, six extra bags of stuff to go fish for two hours in one evening, but I can definitely bring a rod and a reel and a little pack and I can go out and fish for a few hours after a meeting or, you know, sneak out in the morning when you’re on a vacation. But yeah, they, we moved, I think the, the next origin came when I still didn’t stop trying to make an even more epic rod because, you know, the el hee line really compares with rods that, that sell for around five, 600 bucks. And I wanted to go after that, call it thousand dollar rod that gets advertised everywhere in the market. And I wanted to, to build something that felt like those, so we went out and we found, we kept, you know, this is probably a two year project where we found actually a, an incredible state-of-the-art factory in Korea where we’re, we’re making our L ray series and you know, I, I’ve had these rods in the prototypes in the hands of guides that, that fly fish and take people out, you know, 150, 200 days a year and you know, the rods that they’re comparing that six section l ray to would blow your mind. Jeff (8m 22s): Yeah. Dave (8m 22s): So these are, these are high quality higher end rods that are essentially not at kind of the higher end price. Jeff (8m 28s): Yeah. And you know, I think, I think one of our biggest value propositions, if not being scrappy and trying to find out, you know, where these these great rods are being made by the big brands is the fact that we go direct to the angler. So, you know, distribution costs for any product or service get expensive the more, you know, call it middlemen, we put in the middle in between the, the manufacturing and the end consumer. It’s just a, a math question, right? Yeah. Dave (8m 53s): It’s the overhead. Jeff (8m 54s): Yeah. Big grants pay somewhere between 40 and 60%. It just depends to distribute it. So if I can bring a higher quality rod to the market at a lower price point, I think that’s a pretty good niche and it’s working pretty well for us. So I, I think the consumers are loving the fact that they can, you know, get 40% off a rod and not compromised performance or quality. It’s been pretty fun for us. Dave (9m 18s): Exactly. Yeah. I think that’s what’s cool about, you know, kind of how it is now, and we’ve heard this a lot on the podcast, you know, people have talked about this is that, you know, maybe like I said, 40 years ago or whatever, 30 years ago you couldn’t buy a, you know, it was hard you to find that great rod, but now there’s lots of great rods. Oh yeah. You know, there’s, there’s lots of like high quality, almost everything’s high quality now. So that’s what’s cool, right? Jeff (9m 40s): They’ve gotten better. I mean, I think, you know, I could name which brands manufacture their rods in the same factories that we’re using. Exactly. Dave (9m 48s): That’s what I mean about your rods. And when I see your rod and I have one of your, I think is do I have the l huffy the six six piece? Jeff (9m 54s): You got the six section L Ray, which is our new, our new rod that we’re super proud of this Rod just got featured in Fly Fisherman magazine’s 2025 gear Guide. Oh, cool. And, and we’re stoked. It’s Dave (10m 5s): Been fun. Oh man, that’s amazing. Yeah, so the l ray, so it, and when you look at it, I mean it’s, it’s definitely higher end. I mean you could tell right away just by looking at it how, you know. And the other thing that you notice about is that, yeah, it’s six piece, but I really don’t see a, a drop from the four piece. I mean when you put it together, all six pieces, you know, you break it in half and you still have a two piece rod. Right. You could still, it’s just like a normal And the other cool thing, like you said, the sixties, you do notice that that when it’s a four piece okay, that is packable and it works. But if you on a backpack, it’s sticking up at the top. The cool thing about this thing is, I mean, it’s so small that you could throw it in pretty much most backpacks and it’s gone, it disappears. Right. That exactly. Tell me about that. Like that six piece, I don’t think people probably realize how cool that is for travel. Dave (10m 46s): Gimme a couple of examples of where that thing works so well. Jeff (10m 50s): Yeah, so I mean, if, if you’re taking a standard carry on on a plane, it’s gonna fit inside that, which is awesome. ’cause like I think, I think what you said a second ago is super important that you can just stick that in a backpack and it disappears. It’s not hanging out by, by 18 inches where exactly. You know, I went on a hike in Colorado earlier the summer up to a, up to a kind of a mountain lake and I passed so many people with these giant tubes sticking out and they’re dragging on trees and Yeah. Right. I mean, you know, it’s some, some people that’s just a rod they have, that’s what they’re gonna take. That’s great. Right. But there is a better way, and I’m smiling a little bit about when we first started our conversation earlier when you were talking about casting competitions and national world champions and all that kind of thing. Jeff (11m 31s): I think those are the only people out there that are honestly gonna be able to tell the difference between a four and a six section rod. Right. Dave (11m 38s): I’ll Jeff (11m 38s): Bet you 98, 90 9% of all fly fishermen, like aren’t really gonna tell the difference. And I don’t mean that in a derogatory sense, I’m saying that the technology is caught up in such a big way that the performance is there. And I mean, if you’re not gonna bring a rod with you because it’s inconvenient to travel with where who loses there. Yeah. I mean you’re gonna lose ’cause you’re not gonna fish. And these, these rods will make you fish more if you have ’em, you know what I Dave (12m 5s): Mean? Yeah, definitely. No, that that’s, and that’s cool. I think so that’s one big thing, obviously the travel and you know, that, that makes total sense on, you know, maybe talk about that a little bit. When you’re traveling, what are your, I mean you guys have the rods, that’s your focus. You’ve got the new, the l ray out. What other things are you telling people on travel as far as kind of getting ready? It sounds like you’ve done a lot of travel. Give us a couple of, like you’re going on an adventure, like a trip somewhere. What, what are your couple of travel tips you’re telling somebody other than bring the, the six piece rod? Yeah, Jeff (12m 34s): I mean I, I think this is what I would say, and this is call it, I also work in the risk management space in the world. So think about some of my philosophies that are kind of, kind of applicable there. But I almost never travel with only one rod. Yeah, Dave (12m 47s): Right. I Jeff (12m 48s): Always bring two rods because you never know whether it’s gonna be a, a frigging car door or a ceiling fan or you’re gonna trip and fall. Like, I don’t, I don’t know what’s gonna happen in, in the world, but think about, you know, you’ve been, you’ve been planning this trip for a month, you hike a mile from the parking lot to get to this sweet spot and you fall and snap a rod. Now I think, like I would never go out fishing without a backup rod. And that’s just one of my, one of my philosophies. So if I’m definitely not gonna travel a long distance without one. So what’s great about the six section rods, like you said, you can throw it in a backpack and it disappears, it’s not gonna bother you. Yeah. I got some guys that say, listen, I’m gonna fish my a thousand dollars rod and I’m gonna stick l ray in my backpack and if something happens, I got it and I wanna fish a nice rod, so this, this is what I’m gonna do. Jeff (13m 39s): So I, I’d say my first tip is really always have a backup rod. And, and that could be like, it doesn’t mean I’m gonna travel with two, five weight rods. I might throw a three weight in and I might throw a six weight in or whatever, or Yeah. Right. I don’t know. I, I love fishing streamers, so I’m a big fan of a seven or an eight weight. So I’m almost always bringing those rods with me. Yeah. Dave (13m 59s): What, what are your go-to rods If you had to throw two in if you’re going for trout? Jeff (14m 2s): Trout is a funny species. Yeah. So it depends on where I’m going. Right? Dave (14m 6s): Right. Jeff (14m 6s): So if, if I’m going for big water in Montana, I’m always bringing a six and an eight, which, you know, the, the five weight is fine ’cause you might fish a six weight line on that. So it’s, you know, whatever you wanna do. But if I’m going to a, to a place where the water’s a little bit smaller and I know the fish are a little bit smaller, like I love fish in small rods, so I’m probably gonna focus on a three weight the whole time or, or smaller. Dave (14m 31s): Gotcha. Cool. Are you more, I always love to talk about the even versus odd, you know, you, you said six, eight weight. Are you more of a 4, 6, 8, even weights? Are you more like 3, 5, 7, 9 weights? Jeff (14m 42s): It depends. Yeah. I mean, say I’m, I’m lucky because I can pretty much grab anything I want. Right, Dave (14m 47s): Right. Do you have, on your lineup, do you have all, like what weights do you cover? Jeff (14m 51s): In my, in my entire line right now we go zero to 10. Dave (14m 53s): Oh wow. Yeah, you got everything. So Jeff (14m 55s): The l hee line goes from zero eight to 10 weight. We have 7, 8, 9, 10 in saltwater and both six and four piece rods. And you know, we’re, we’re doing some pretty cool stuff there. So we, we sell a lot of complete combos too. So we’re a lot of guys that get into our, you know, our favorite sport fly fishing, they look at it and they, you know, sometimes they walk into a shop and they’re like, okay, well I just talked to the guy and basically in order for me to get started fly fishing, I gotta spend two grand. Yeah. It’s like, that’s a pretty big barrier to entry to some people. So, you know, I’m, I’m pretty happy to be able to offer a, a pretty sweet combo in the el he a line for 500 bucks for the most part. And that’s gonna come with some flies, a pack, a bunch of accessories and that kind of thing. Jeff (15m 38s): And you know, I mean, you’re fishing right out of the box. So Yeah. I mean your, your question of even or odd Yeah, it just depends. But I laugh when you ask the question ’cause I know a lot of guys that are like, listen, I fish a five and a seven, that’s it. Dave (15m 50s): Right. And Jeff (15m 51s): Like, or hee packable rods are gonna be a little bit different than l ray. El ray will be one line specific, but the packable l hee rods are like a five six. Right. Yeah. And generally speaking on our, our l hee packable are three four or two three, I’m fishing the line up on it. So I’ll, I’ll generally fish like the six weight line on that five six l half a and you know, it cuts the wind a little bit better. It’s, you know, just, just a few little preferences. And I, I know guys that’ll fish a six weight line on five weight rod all day, or an eight weight line on a seven weight rod all day. It’s just, I think it cas easier. So I think for guys that are just getting started, that’s a, that’s a nice little pro tip to just line up once and makes things easier, specifically when you get into the wind. Dave (16m 35s): Yeah. When you get in the wind and Yeah. And that, that’s another interesting topic too. I know we’ve had some lying companies on that have talked about that whole and just, and we’ve talked about that whole change in the industry where, you know, some people line up two lines, you know, and then, you know, depending on what you have. But then the thing is, some of these line companies are actually making, you know, all these specialized lines that are already lined up two lines. Right. That’s true. Right. That’s true. And so they don’t even say it. They say like, this is the, whatever they call it, the streamer surge line, and it’s already two, it, it’s a six weight, it’s actually an eight weight, but it’s called a six weight in the packaging. Yeah. So if you’re to line up on that one, you’d be fishing a nine weight. So it’s this interesting thing, you know, that’s kind of going on. And I think that, you know, like I said, the Chris Ridge, you know, I’m just hot off that episode that just went live this week, but it was so interesting ’cause he talks about the nuclear arms race of the fly rod industry in the last 30 years, how people went from slower action rods to, you know, sage and everybody like faster, faster, faster. Dave (17m 32s): And everything’s pretty fast action now, right? Yeah. And so it’s this super fast. I, I guess, you know, that’s, that that’s that whole conversation there. But I think the tip you said is that now and can you buy, do you have the whole package? Are you saying you have not just the rods, but you have the kinda the reels lines as well? Jeff (17m 48s): Oh, yeah, yeah. So we, we private label our own fly line and, and it’s ridiculously adequate. I mean, it, it Phish is good. We also offer, we have a partnership with scientific anglers, so we offer an upgrade option there. Okay. I mean, you know, scientific anglers, just like a lot of these, a lot of these fly line companies, they make great stuff. So it’s, you know, it’s an upgrade option. So some, some guys just, you know, they, they wanna fish a better fly line and I have no issues with that. So that’s why we got the partnership. Dave (18m 15s): Yeah. That’s it. No, and at Scientific Anglers, that was actually the company that we had on. I, I’ve had, we’ve talked to them quite a bit and, and that was, we were talking to their RD about that and he was talking a little bit about the history. We, we also had Bruce Richards on who we’re gonna have back on. He’s the guy that pretty much was there that started scientific anglers. Oh, very cool. And so Bruce Richards was episode 6 47, the, the six step method of perfecting your cast. He’s obviously a casting master as well. Yeah. Jeff (18m 41s): And guys like that. I mean, they’re, they’re invaluable, right? Yeah. But I do think one thing that some of these line companies and some of the rod companies are doing that’s probably not helping us all is I think they’re overcomplicating things by offering too many options. It’s just my opinion. I mean, I think, you know, when I talk to some people that have never fly fish, they’re like, oh my gosh, I’ve been fishing my whole life. I’m never getting into fly fishing kit is way too complicated. And I adamantly disagree with that. And I think some of the marketing of our industry is making people have this perception that it’s too complicated when it’s really not. You just need to oversimplify things and get started and get on the water and then upgrade over time if, if you feel the need. Jeff (19m 21s): But you know, when I, when I talk to some people that say, yeah, I’m gonna go out and I’m gonna fish this tail water and I’m gonna bring like six different fly lines with me, right? And it’s like, what, what do, what are you doing, man? Well, well what if, what if, what if this happens? Yeah. It’s like If you fish your weight forward floating and you’re gonna be fine, it’s like, come on man, maybe bring a sink tip if you’re gonna fish a streamer. I don’t know. But you don’t, you don’t need that many, many things. So it’s just an industry, like many industries that keep innovating and keep complicating things and the stuff they’re making is amazing. But it’s unnecessary for 80 to 90% of anglers in my opinion. Yeah, Dave (19m 56s): That’s a great point. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, you don’t need, probably you don’t need six rods or even four rods in the boat, right. Probably a couple is fine, maybe three. But unless Jeff (20m 4s): You’re me and you’re testing stuff or, you know, I’m just kidding. Right. But yeah, I mean, you, I’m going to fishing in Montana, I’m probably gonna have three, four rods with me that are ready to go in the boat. And even if I’m fishing solo, and it could be, you know, just to spend a little bit of time with this rod or you know, I’m gonna fish a seven and an eight weight just to see which one I like better or you know, whatever. But I mean, you know, just getting out there is what’s important. That’s what brings us all to peace that we all look for, in my opinion, with fly fishing. I mean, I fly fishing is the coolest sport in the world because I think it’s one of those things where you can’t concentrate on other stuff if you’re fly fishing. And we all need that. Right? Right. Like, there’s so many little variables that you have to keep straight in fly fishing and that prevents you from thinking about work or thinking about, you know, something else. Jeff (20m 52s): I, in my opinion, I, I don’t get that from golf. I don’t get that from bass fishing. I, I get that from fly fishing and maybe it, maybe I’m unique, but I think a lot of guys can relate to that. Dave (21m 0s): Yeah, no, I think that’s totally true. Yeah. That’s, it’s kind of the yeah’s the meditative thing, right? The thing, you’re out there, you’re zoned in and you’re in the zone. And it’s interesting ’cause that, you know, it’s like, we’ve talked about this quite a bit too, but the, you know, professional athletes tend to, some of the best anglers are also, you know, had, they were high level at other sports, but the, you know, the all sports need that focus if you’re gonna get to the highest level. Right. And fly fishing is no different. Jeff (21m 25s): Yeah, I agree. I think it’s, you know, I, I go back to some of the comments about, you know, world casting competitions or fly fishing competitions like that. I mean, you can’t see it, but I’m kind of rolling my eyes a little bit. Like yeah, it’s amazing. Those guys are doing such cool stuff, you know, that’s so awesome. But I don’t know, to me, fly fishing isn’t a competition. It’s, this is where I find zen. This is where, you know, where I can relax and this is where I can become close to nature. And I don’t know exactly. Like, like I said, those guys are amazing, but that’s not for me. Yeah. Dave (21m 56s): Right, right, right. Yeah, it’s kinda like the, I think a lot of people with the team USA and the competition fly fishing, I think you hear that too a little bit. That the competition really isn’t, although a lot of, you know, new things have come out of that obviously. Right. I think the, whether it’s the Golden Gate Casting club or you know, Devin Olson or you know, Pete, some of those guys, a lot of cool techniques and things have come out, but Yeah. Oh gosh, Jeff (22m 17s): Yeah. I mean, I, I got a good buddy of mine that’s part of the team and, and you know, he’s amazing. He has tons of fun on it. They do good stuff for people while they’re out there. So it’s, I mean, I’m not throwing stones, it’s just Yeah. Yeah. That’s just not Dave (22m 28s): My Well, it’s your own thing. I mean, it’s, it’s all of our own things that that’s what’s cool about it, right? I mean, you can Yep. You can go extreme and be like, I’m gonna learn every piece and I’m gonna be an entomologist and I’m gonna, you know, have a hundred rods. Or you can just be like, Hey, I got my l hee, you know, one rod and this is all I need. I got everything I need. Couple flies, boom, I’m going for it. Yep. Jeff (22m 49s): For sure. As I warn most people when they, because I, I help a lot of guys get started in this, in this industry because, you know, or in, in the hobby of fly fishing, because we offer the complete turnkey package. So I warn a lot of guys kind of like with a wink that be careful because fly rods sometimes multiply, so I’m just warning you up front. So don’t think that you’re gonna go get your five weight and that’s gonna be the only thing you get because Right. You Dave (23m 14s): Know, Jeff (23m 14s): You, you might end up with three, four rods over time, but that’s okay, man, this is a healthy sport. Yeah. Dave (23m 19s): Over time for sure. What is the, so the, the name, so, I mean, you obviously got pescado on the fly, you know, but the el hee where, where does all that come from? Where’d you get the kind of the name? Jeff (23m 28s): So I, I spent a lot of time in Mexico in Ascension Bay, fly fishing for a permit, bonefish, tarpon, that kind of thing. And I’ve, you know, I grew up speaking Spanish in school and all that. And I don’t know, I always had so much fun sitting on the, on the boat with these guys trying to speak Spanish and I’m gonna say, trying to speak Spanish with ’em and be like, okay, today’s Tuesday I’m, I’m not gonna speak English all day, let’s do this. Right. And, you know, we almost make it through a day, but pescado means fishermen. Right. And my wife came up with the pescador on the fly, which means kind of like fishermen on the go. Yep. So, you know, the travel, the packable, all that, that’s kind of like our mantra. This is what, what we’re kind of, that’s kind of our niche in the market, if you will, direct to the angler packable fly fishing gear. Jeff (24m 11s): El hefe means the boss and El ray is the king. So, you know, this is just, we’ve just named our, named our gear that direction. Econ 1 0 1. I’m gonna give myself a pass. I’m not going Spanish on that one. Right. I wanted that one to be be like this, this is the foundation that I think a lot of people need to start on. There’s a lot of, and, and I think the reason we we started that line wasn’t because that’s where I wanted to focus. The reason I started that line is ’cause I felt that there was way too much disposable fly fishing gear being built and sold on, you know, some of the online retailers, insert name here. But I got my hands on a couple of these things because people would say, yeah, I, I, I’m just gonna go buy one of these. Jeff (24m 56s): And I’m like, all right. So I I, I bought one online before I launched Econ 1 0 1. And I was like, this rod is horrible and I’m pretty sure it’s gonna fall apart within a year. And, you know, some people may have different experiences with it, but I was not a fan. So what I did is I, I started this because Trout Unlimited and I, we were talking about some, some issues and I said, well, I think I can actually build a, a starter kit that’s not disposable that could be sold at a budget budget level. And it’s not the cheapest stuff in the world, but this is also two, three notches up from your traditional starter gear. So it’s something we could be proud of to, to put out there and help some guys, you know, get into the fly fishing for, for less, less investment. Jeff (25m 38s): We sell a ton to people for kids getting started and fly fishing and it’s gear they can have for a long time. So that’s kind of that, that lineup. But Dave (25m 45s): Yeah, that makes sense. So you have a good Yeah, the starter lineup is awesome. Talk about that with permit. Describe your a trip down there and, and maybe what, what rods you were bringing down there on the, on that trip to Ascension. Jeff (25m 55s): Yeah, I mean, back in the day, you know, when I was gonna be flying to Mexico for six days of flats fishing, you know, primarily we were bringing, you know, our, our four section rods. I, I would generally, again, I’m a, I’m a gear guy and this is before I started the company, but I would have a, a 7, 8, 9, 10 lined up on the boat for, you know, whatever I was going on with my seven would be my, my bonefish rod, my eight weight would be, call it bonefish slash permit. Nine would be my traditional permit rod. And, and 10 would be for small tarpon. That’s kinda like what I was normally bringing. But the last couple times I’ve been down there, I was fishing our six section l he a rod. So I had a couple of those lined up. Jeff (26m 37s): And then, you know, we also have four section rods. So I had those l he a salt rods out on the last time I was, was down there and they were, they were fantastic. So our jefe reels are all salt water capable, so they have fully sealed drags so you can fish ’em in fresh or salt. And that’s kind of a nice, nice little thing where, you know, I’m, I’m generally fishing an eight weight, what might look like a salt water rod on for streamers just ’cause you know, I don’t need a freshwater eight weight and a salt water, eight weight. It’s, you know, the same fast action rod. So. Gotcha. Dave (27m 7s): Gimme a little rundown on where you’re going from here. New rods and new things coming up. Jeff (27m 11s): We’re actually in the process of, of doing some pretty cool stuff with, with all of our manufacturing. So after starting to meet that new factory in Korea that’s making our L ray series, we, we have prototypes being built right now. I’ve seen one of them. And I’m gonna move the production of the el hee rods to, to that factory in Korea. So the el hee line will, will go over there and we’re gonna, we’re gonna rebuild that one in this Korean factory. The factory’s incredible. They make ridiculously good gear. So I’m super stoked on that one. So that’ll, that’ll start happening here shortly. We’re gonna expand the LRA series and we’re gonna build probably three or four more l ray rods right now. Jeff (27m 54s): I got four weight, I got five weight, we’re building a 7 0 8 right now in the sixth section. And then you’ll probably see three more of those launch next year. And then we’re also gonna be building four piece in the L ray just ’cause they’re just ridiculously good rods. And a lot of guys that are just, you know, traditionally fishing and not traveling, they love that that four piece rods that we’re gonna build them. And you know, it’s kind of like my in tongue in cheek comment like, look, we also built a thousand dollars rod, you just don’t have to pay a thousand dollars for it. So yeah, that’s, we’re pretty excited about that. I’ve got a new completely waterproof pack Oh nice. That it is ridiculously cool. We’re probably 30 days out, so that’s gonna hit the, hit the shelves here in probably beginning of December, 2024. Jeff (28m 39s): So super excited about that. Think about that. You get a, a lumbar pack and you know, there’s a lot of cool ones out there on the market, but you start adding this direct to consumer pricing and we can knock 40% off the retail price of, of our competitors just by going direct. So we’re, we’re, we’re stoked on that one. I think it’s gonna be, be providing a huge value to our customers and I think it’s gonna attract a bunch of new customers for us as well. ’cause you know, you can get a really, really high quality gear for a lot less money. And that’s just, that’s been fun. So we’re selling flies now too. Okay. So I’ve got a project with my son right now to kind of get him a little bit more involved in the business. So he’s learning a little bit of entrepreneurialism. Jeff (29m 21s): So he’s getting, he’s getting paid to distribute the flies for us, which has been fun. So it’s a cool way to, and, you know, weave my 15-year-old son into our business and teach him about, you know, having a good value proposition. And the cool thing is, is like for, you know, nymphs, Midge dries, that kind of thing. I’ve got a ridiculously good network of fly tires and they can tie flies for us for a really reasonable price. We don’t make a lot of money on the flies and you know, we use ’em really as leads, you know, so we break even pretty much on the flies, but we sell ’em for 75 cents a piece. Dave (29m 57s): Oh wow. Jeff (29m 58s): And we sell ’em in three packs. So like, say two and a quarter, you’re gonna get three, three beheaded wooy buggers that are really high quality. Huh. So that’s pretty solid and it’s a cool little project to get my son more involved in the business. So it’s a great value. We’re selling large articulated streamers for two bucks each, or six bucks for three of them. And you know, you think about that, you go into a shop that’s gonna cost you six bucks for one or 12 bucks for one. I mean I’ve seen, I’ve seen some crazy stuff. So providing good value and I, I think the, the market likes it. So we’re happy to do that and that’s gonna expand for us as well. Dave (30m 32s): Nice. Nice. That’s awesome to hear. So you got a bunch of good stuff going here. So we talked, you know, basically you’re gonna have your background and so on the six versus the four, it feels like the six is pretty equal to a four piece. Do you feel that that’s the case on, on your lineup or is it just some people maybe don’t need the six piece if they’re kind of not doing all the travel, Jeff (30m 52s): You know, call it biases that are out there. I mean, you go back and you, you mentioned, you know, 30 years ago, the only way you’re gonna be able to buy a fly rod is walk into a specific fly fishing store and that’s not the case anymore. Right. Back then people, you know, when they’re gonna buy a fly rod, there was the same issue of I’m not gonna buy a four piece rod, I want a two piece rod. ’cause four piece rods suck. Right? Yeah. And you and I both know that that’s, that’s hasn’t been the case for 20 years Right. Or more. Right. But there’s still people out there that are like, oh I I, you have these old biases in your head that this is no good. And I think once people figure out that the six section rod cast just as good as a four section rod, if you’re buying the right one, I think they’re gonna open their mind to making sure that they have one of these in their arsenal or two of these in their arsenal of fly rods. Jeff (31m 41s): I mean, again, if you’re, if you’re out in Colorado and you’re just, you got your, your four piece rod in your truck, there’s no need to get a two six piece rod. You’re already set. So we wanted to be able to offer the four section rod because people want Dave (31m 56s): ’em. Yeah. People want ’em. Yeah, exactly. Just like back in like you’re saying that people wanted the two piece. Yeah, Jeff (32m 1s): For sure. Yeah. I, I fish four piece rods too, but like if I’m traveling or packing, I’m always bringing six section rods. And even if I’m, if I’m out and about, I have a four section or a six section tube on my pack as a backup rod at all times. So even if I am fishing a four section rod, I definitely have my backup rod or rods with me. So, I mean, to your point, could you replace the four section rod with six section rods if you wanted to And I got guys that do that. Yeah. But I, I think, you know, it’s the right tool for the right job. Right. I I don’t mind bringing the four section rods. They’re just sitting in the back of my car. Dave (32m 35s): Exactly. Jeff (32m 36s): But if I’m packing, packing somewhere, I’m a hundred percent bringing, bringing six section rods with me. ’cause they travel so perfect and they fish. Great. Dave (32m 42s): Yeah, definitely. Definitely. That’s awesome. And on the keeping on the gear a little bit, what, back to, you know, kind of the travel, so we’re on our trip, what’s your essential, you’ve done some travel and what is your essential gear other than obviously having the, the six section rod? What’s on that bag when you’re, you’re carrying it on that you’re not going to, you know, leave without? Jeff (32m 60s): Yeah, I mean I, you always, you think about it, you gotta, you gotta have flies, right? Flies for the right place. Right. So your staple of flies that you’re gonna bring everywhere you go, it’s, so it’s fly boxes. You gotta have your leaders in tip it all your little accessories. Like you might need some weights, you might need some fly line dressing, all that kind of stuff. I have a very, very small pack that we sell. Yeah. Dave (33m 21s): Is that the versa pack? Jeff (33m 22s): The versa pack? Yeah. Yeah. Dave (33m 24s): That, that looks sweet. Yeah. So the Versa pack is tiny. And I love too the tiny packs because I’m kind of more the simplicity and that looks like that’s kind of big enough for what, just like a, a nice fly box and some flies and some liter, Jeff (33m 34s): Couple fly boxes. Everything you need in there. I mean, you know, I’m a minimalist by heart. So like I, I play tennis too and I always laugh because there’s guys that I play tennis with that are bringing these tennis racket bags that have the capacity to put 12 rackets in. Right. I’m like, okay, when, when was the last time, you know, one, one of us guys that are middle age playing amateur tennis needed more than one racket? Yeah. Like, yeah, I have two in case I break a string, but it’s like there, there’s no situation on the planet where I would ever need 12. But what happens is these guys fill the, these bags with stuff that they never use. So I unpacked one of my bags like four years ago and I looked at it, I was like, I haven’t used any of this stuff in five years. Jeff (34m 14s): And I think your fly fishing bags, the giant ones are the exact same way. So you got stuffed with everything that you may need, but you never do. So I love bring being traveling small and you know, when I, when I’m just going on a quick trip that Versa pack is the, like the most perfect day pack. It’s got every room for everything you need. You know, you can stick a fly reel in there if you wanted to. I mean it’s, but it’s, it’s not huge. Right? Yeah. So it doesn’t take up a ton of space. So you can throw the rob the reel, you know, in that pack in there and you’ve got everything you need for a trip. I actually use it in combination with that new lumbar pack, the, the waterproof one. Jeff (34m 55s): Okay. So it’s, you know, that stays on my back and it holds the net and it has a water bottle holder and all that stuff on it. And then this kind of comes up front like a call it chest pack. Yeah. Or you know, off to your side. And that is where I keep my flies a a lot of times. And you know, if I’m, if I’m fishing all day or I’m hiking in somewhere, I’m probably taking both with me just ’cause So I can bring some more flies just in case. But yeah, I mean that versa pack is sweet. Dave (35m 21s): Yeah. That’s it. Yeah. Versa pack. Sweet. Yeah. Jeff (35m 23s): And I think, yeah, I think the other thing that I was gonna say when, when I’m traveling is, you know, waiters are no waiters. So obviously it depends on where you’re at. Depends on the weather. It depends if you can wet wade, it depends if you’re gonna, you know, just stay dry. There’s a lot of kinda like what ifs there. I love traveling with waiters. Yeah. I, me too. I say that kind of tongue in cheek. I like having ’em with me because like traveling with ’em is kind of a pain. ’cause then, you know, you’re always bringing like a a, a kitchen bag or something like that to wrap ’em up so you’re not soaking the rest of your, your gear If you’re checking your bag or you’re carrying on your bag or whatever. But I mean, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve traveled with a suit in my carry-on waiters and boots and my fly fishing gear and I still have everything I need for my meetings as well as my, call it extracurricular fly fishing afterwards. Jeff (36m 13s): And it can be done, but you gotta be pretty methodical about your packing and it takes a little bit of time. But packable boots are a pretty cool thing. Dave (36m 21s): Oh yeah. What are those, are those like the, you make the neoprene things or? Jeff (36m 25s): Yeah, so you can go a couple different ways. You can, you can look at, there’s a few brands out there that make like water shoes and they’re like tennis shoes. You know, I like, I, I’m pretty sure Sims makes, makes some, I haven’t bought theirs yet, but I’ve, I’ve definitely looked at ’em. But they’re more of like a hiking shoe versus a, a fly fishing boot. And so you can, you can kind of like smash those up a little bit and then you can still lay some on there so they’re not gonna come off. So that’s kind of a cool invention. And obviously those are great for wet weighting too, because I mean, if you can get away with wet weighting and not bringing waiters, amen. I mean that’s, that’s beautiful. But you know, if you’re gonna be fishing somewhere in February, that’s dangerous. Jeff (37m 5s): So. Yeah. Dave (37m 5s): Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. Jeff (37m 7s): So it, it’s it’s, you know, know your conditions, know your surroundings and, and all that kind of good stuff. But, you know, if, if I can bring waiters and boots, I’m, I’m doing Dave (37m 14s): It. Yeah, me too. Yeah. I, I love, I love wearing waiters, that’s for sure. Waiters and boots is, is good. So this is awesome. And we’re talking gear. What, what about your kinda your luxury you’re packing that maybe isn’t fly fishing gear? What, what’s your one luxury item you’re taking on that you’re throwing in there along with your, your boots and everything? Jeff (37m 32s): You know, it’s funny because like the only thing that comes to mind for me is, I mean, obviously polarized glasses. Yeah. And I’m a close to Delmar guy, so I’ve, I’ve always been using those since like, I turned onto those 20 years ago or whatever. So that’s kind of fly fishing gear. But I’d probably say my, my iPad. Dave (37m 50s): Oh yeah, Jeff (37m 51s): Man. That, that thing is everything to me. I got, got an iPad Pro and Dave (37m 55s): Do you take an iPad and a laptop or just the iPad? Jeff (37m 57s): I don’t travel with a laptop, I just use the, I just use the iPad and obviously that that works with your phone. So your phone’s not your camera and all that good stuff. And you know, these phones today, their, their cameras are so good. So I’d say my technology package is is pretty minimalist. It’s, but I’m, I’m an Apple guy. I have been forever, so it’s, you know. Dave (38m 18s): Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Me too. Well, I, I haven’t been forever. I was a, a PC guy until about eight years ago or whenever it was and, and I made the switch and ever since I made the switch, it’s like, yeah. It, it was a pretty good switch. Jeff (38m 29s): Yeah. You know, well, what’s funny for me is I, I had, I had gotten an iPhone. I didn’t get the very first one, but I laughed about it because, you know, this is back in the day when you would have like, I had like an iMac, but big one that was just like the desktop. And I remember going to buy a new phone and I went and bought the new iPhone and I don’t remember which, which version it was. And I thought to myself, and I was like, oh, this is awesome. I’m so excited. That was back when you had to like plug it into the back of it to like, oh yeah. Sync it, right? Yep. So I bring it home, I’m super excited. I plug it into the computer and the thing says, your computer is too old to download the new iTunes software Sure. That you need to run your new phone. Jeff (39m 11s): And I thought to myself, I was like, you evil geniuses. So like I had to, after buying the phone, I did two things. I went back to the Apple store and I bought a brand new computer so I could actually use my new phone. The next thing I did is I bought Apple stock. Dave (39m 26s): Oh, right. And both Jeff (39m 27s): Of those decisions were pretty good. Right. Dave (39m 28s): Nice. Back Jeff (39m 29s): Then. And we’re talking like 2008. So that was a, that was a good run. But it was like, yeah. So it’s just, you know, it’s a funny world how things give you clues and what to look for and that, that was a clue to me. And I was like, you evil geniuses, I’m gonna have to go buy a new computer. So I use the phone I just bought. Dave (39m 44s): Right. I know. I, well, that’s exactly what, what Apple has done, you know, they get you in your, in the Apple universe, Jeff (39m 51s): They made themselves successful in my life and, you know, good for them. Right? Dave (39m 55s): Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. They’re, they’re good. Well, Steve Jobs was definitely, they call him, you know, whatever. Right. He was pretty much a genius regardless Jeff (40m 1s): Of Yeah. No Dave (40m 2s): Doubt about it. What you think about him. Yep. Good. Okay. So we got some, some bonus travel stuff in there. Well, anything else, you know, you’re thinking about, we wanna touch base on about pastors door on the fly. We, we missed today. Jeff (40m 14s): I don’t know, man. It’s, we’re a very small business. So what I love the most is when, and, and I say this humbly because I’m really proud of it and I don’t talk about it a lot, but every once in a while I love going onto the website and reading all the reviews and it comes out really, really clean that people really enjoy their experience with us. I’m a very hands-on guy. I love helping people. I still answer our phone. I still answer the majority of our emails. I help people all the time figure out which gear’s right for them. I love doing it because I love getting guys into fishing and just ’cause it’s, it’s been such a great sport to me. Jeff (40m 54s): It makes me feel close to my, my dad and my grandfather and my dad just passed away this summer. So it’s like, fly fishing to me is a very, very personal thing. I have so many memories in it as do a lot of other fly anglers. Right? Yeah. So when I, I shared kind of like my tribute to my dad that I wrote up that, that actually got published in one of Trout Unlimited’s Oh, wow. Colorado Chapters Magazine. You know, I, I still kind of cry every time I read it a little bit, but that, that’s all real stuff, man. We’re we’re real people out here. We’re a cool family business. We’re growing, we’re really appreciative to guys like you that, that are kind of helping us get the word out. And, you know, it is been a really fun little journey and we’ve probably been rolling about eight years now, which is, you know, statistically speaking a pretty good sign in a in a business that we’re, we’re up and running. Jeff (41m 43s): But yeah, I mean, people break rods and we take care of ’em, you know what I mean? Yeah. So you, you look at some of the industry where, you know, somebody breaks a rod and they know that they’re gonna get that, that new section of the rod back somewhere between three and six months. Yeah. And we’re shipping out new stuff and triaging these situations for guys to get ’em back on the water in two days. So it, you know, customer service matters and we care about it. So I, I think that’s probably something that I don’t brag about enough, but I’m super proud of what we do there. Dave (42m 14s): Love that. Yeah. I think the customer service and you family, you said a lot of things there that are so key, you know, and the reviews, you know what I mean? People like, that’s awesome. You know what I mean? People that are loving the products and that, that shows there’s, that’s great to hear. Well, I think, you know, I think this has been good today. Let’s take it outta here real quick with our conservation shout out, and you’ve mentioned it a couple times, trout Unlimited, who’s a great organization out there. Let’s start off with that. Tell us a little about Tu what have you done with them? Like what are the, are you guys doing projects or gimme a little info there? Yeah, Jeff (42m 44s): So at, at the very beginning before we had made any, any money at all, I wanted to use a piece of our revenue to support Trout Unlimited. And I’m a firm believer in kinda like dividing and conquering and Trout Unlimited does an amazing job of fighting for projects that mean something to anglers, right? They’re, they’re trying to protect the water that we, that our fish live in, right? And they’re trying to give us better access to fishing and they’re doing some really cool projects. Like some of these dam removal projects that are, they’re, they’re, they’re at the forefront fighting Pebble. Mine is another one up in Alaska. Alaska is a near and dear place to my heart. I’ve been up there many, many times with my dad. Jeff (43m 24s): It’s, you know, fighting some of these projects. I love being involved in them, but I also love supporting groups that do the work. And when I support Trout Unlimited, I know that they’re getting jobs done and they allow me to focus on what’s near and dear to my heart more, you know, stuff that I’m good at. They’re good at that. They got that I’m good at what I do for my family and I got that. Yeah. Right. So a couple different things that I’ve done with Trout Unlimited, other than, you know, diverting a chunk of our, of our revenue to that organization to help, you know, clean water support and all that good stuff, is through a, a conversation with a number of their, their executives over the years I came up with the concept of the trout hero bag. Jeff (44m 10s): Hmm. So the trout hero bag is nothing ridiculously amazing, but basically what it is, is it’s a, it’s a mesh bag that’s reusable that somebody can put in their pack with the absolute intention of every time they’re out on the water, filling that thing up with trash and carrying it out Nice. So not just, not just carry out what you, what you’re bringing out there, but bring a little bit more out and I love tr to unlimited sponsored stream cleanups. Those are great once, twice a year, but I think the compound effect of tens of thousands of anglers doing this every single time they’re on the water is actually bigger than a one day event with 30 guys. Jeff (44m 54s): So we built these bags using some of our connections overseas, and I give those to Trout unlimited chapters at our cost. So no, no profit whatsoever. And so like we send thousands of those out to try unlimited chapters every single year. And then on our website, there’s a individual listing for the bags and there’s a coupon right on the listing, which you don’t see very often for a free one. So you pay shipping and we’ll get you, we get you your own for free. And so it’s a way where, where we’re able to help support different organizations in these stream cleanup efforts and that that’s something we’re really proud of. Jeff (45m 36s): That partnership’s been pretty cool. Dave (45m 38s): Nice. Love that. Yeah, that’s, I think the, we’ve talked some about the stream cleanups, and it’s a real important part, you know, and I think it’s not just about picking up the garbage, but just getting people aware, you know, of all the things that are going on right there. So that’s, that’s really amazing. Totally Jeff (45m 53s): Agree. Dave (45m 53s): So this has been good. So well gimme one more on, you know, just the six. I wanna go back to the, I always say six piece, I think you say six sections, the same thing, right? A piece, a section. Yeah. Jeff (46m 3s): Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dave (46m 5s): So the sixth section, rod, I mean, I just think it’s, I, I do kind of think it is a game changer for the travel because it’s, it, like we said, because it just disappears in your stuff. What is, do you think the most common misconception about the six piece rod? Or, or, you know what I mean, like that people aren’t, because I, I know a lot of people use four pieces, but probably a lot of people listening don’t have a six piece. So what do you think is that misconception they have? Jeff (46m 27s): I think that the fact that the original, the original six section rods, or the original seven section rods were not remotely as good as they are now. And I think it’s just like anything that, you know, the first product on the market, it’s, it’s innovative. It’s very cool. Kinda like my l cinco rods, right? Those seven section rods. Dave (46m 44s): Well, yeah. Or like the phone, you go back to Apple, the iPhone was not the first cell phone ever. Right. But they perfected it. Right, Jeff (46m 50s): Exactly. So we’ve worked at that over years to get it out there. But, but again, I’ll, I’ll bet, you know, 96, 97 out of a hundred people, If you handed this six section L Ray, rod two, they’re not gonna be able to tell the difference between that and a, and a very, very high end four section rod. And that’s, that’s something we’re really proud of. So the fact that the biggest misnomer is that people do not think that they perform well and these rods are ridiculously good. Dave (47m 16s): Yeah, I think that’s, that’s a good take home. I always love to get a little bit of music, Audi or, or podcasts. Before you get outta here, what, what’s your, are you listening to more podcasts or more music when you’re on a road trip? Jeff (47m 28s): Road trip? So I’m, I’m a combination. I listen to a lot of audio books. Dave (47m 32s): Oh yeah. Audio books. Cool. Jeff (47m 33s): So it’s either an audio book or music. And I’ve been into country a little bit lately. Yep. So, big fan of Chris Stapleton, big fan of Zach Bryan and some of these guys. But yeah, I mean, just, yeah, Tyler Childress. But those are kind of like some of my newest stuff. But I keep drifting back to Jack Johnson and John Mayer and Dave Matthews and some of these other guys. But it’s, I think being a a fan of music makes you pretty damn lazy now. ’cause you just throw Spotify on and be like, okay, I wanna listen to something like this. And all of a sudden they’re throwing you new stuff and it’s like, Hey, I like this stuff too. So Dave (48m 6s): I know. I love it. Yeah. Spotify’s a game changer. Jeff (48m 9s): I methodically listen to and consume books and podcasts because daily education to me is a, is kind of a mantra. I, I thoroughly believe that, you know, the, the sum of of our success is built up in our daily routine. So my daily routine starts out in the morning with a pretty cool little, little process that I run through every day. And it keeps me centered, it keeps me grounded and keeps me focused on what’s most important. So the sum of our success is built into our daily routine. So Dave (48m 40s): What’s that? I’ve heard of the, I’m not as good with the morning routines, but I know there’s some of those out there. Give us a little snippet. Can you give us a little snippet on what your daily morning routine’s like? Jeff (48m 51s): You know, during the week it’s a little more regimented than not, but I get up fairly early and I, I put coffee on and I do, I actually use an app called Calm. Dave (49m 2s): Oh yeah, calm, yeah, yeah, I know that app. Jeff (49m 4s): Yeah. And, and, and they have like a 10 minute, 10 minute daily meditation. Yep. Dave (49m 8s): That’s great. Jeff (49m 9s): And for me, it, it grounds me. But right before I do that, I read a book called The Daily Stoic, and it’s one day, it’s kind of a weird thing, but it’s basically every day there’s a new message and you read it every single day. And there’s a date, like, you know, today’s date is the 13th of November, so I read the 13th of November section. It takes 30 seconds and it just, it’s just good stuff that kind of like, I, I think centers you on what’s important in life. And then I do the daily calm for about 10 minutes, and my son wakes up and right when he wakes up and he gets in the shower, I jump on the, the hydro, the rower, and I row for 10 minutes. Dave (49m 50s): Oh, nice. Jeff (49m 51s): And so I, I try to get my little grounding when the house is, is super quiet. I do my row for 10 minutes. Then he comes down, he has breakfast, we hang out, and when, when he, he has a school permit, he’s 15, he drives to school. So I see him out and I go, I go for a, a short run. I run like a mile, and then I walk on a mile and I listen to a book. So that gives me Wow, you know, awesome. 20 minutes of, of learning along with a little bit of heart rate up and I get back shower, and then I’m, then I’m off. So that, that whole little, little thing from wake up until I’m back and showering is probably about two hours in all honesty. That’s so cool. Dave (50m 29s): And I get about Jeff (50m 30s): 30 minutes of cardio and Dave (50m 31s): Yep. And you’re done. So that’s the thing. You, you break it out. So by the, by that time you’re feeling good, you got your exercise in, you’re, you’re ready to roll? Jeff (50m 37s): Yeah, I’m, I’m ready to roll. Yep. So that’s, that’s what my morning looks like, like, you know, during the week. That’s Dave (50m 42s): So cool. That’s a great routine. I Jeff (50m 44s): Keep a couple of those things on the weekend. I just don’t, I don’t do the row and I don’t do the, the run. Usually I’m playing tennis on the weekend, so I’m playing tennis for hour and a half, two hours every day. So it’s all good. Dave (50m 54s): I love it. Love it. That’s a great, yeah. That’s some inspiration for all of us here. Get the, get the routine. And tell me this, I’m also interested your kids, so my kids are a little bit younger, but what does that feel like your kid’s driving? Are you just, are you totally freaked out on the first day when he dri like on his own? Are you always worried every day? Jeff (51m 11s): Oh yeah, man, yeah. This is, this is real stuff. Right. So, Dave (51m 14s): Yeah, because the phones, I mean, think about it, we’re the same. I mean, adults are just as bad. I mean, you got the phones in the cars. I mean, how do the kids, or like, that would just freak me out right now thinking about that. Jeff (51m 24s): It’s funny because I actually think the kids are better at not looking at their cell phones than we are. Oh, Dave (51m 29s): Wow. Nice. I, I Jeff (51m 30s): Really do. ’cause I, I don’t know, it’s like we grew up in the, let’s just, you know, I, I remember back in the day, 20 years ago, driving around at the Blackberry trying to type, when I’m driving in the inner Detroit, I’m like, am I the stupidest person in the world? Exactly. It’s like, yes, I am. So I I, I put this thing down, I’m not gonna do this. And I, I luckily never had a problem. And now I don’t do it anymore because it’s just obviously so stupid. Yeah. But I remember when I was in my early twenties, it’s like, that’s just like what you did. I’m just like, what’s, what’s the matter with us? But I, I think the kids today for the most part, don’t do it. Like when you’re driving somewhere and you look up and you see some idiot with their face Right. In their cell phone and they’re driving next to you, generally speaking, it’s not a, it’s not a 16-year-old kid, it’s like a 20 something. Jeff (52m 14s): I, I don’t know, it’s just maybe that’s just what I noticed, but no matter what it is, they still make you nervous no matter what they’re doing. You still worry. But that’s like our job, right. We just, you’re trying to do our best to prepare ’em for life and Dave (52m 26s): Yep. Jeff (52m 26s): Some days we, we win, some days we Dave (52m 28s): Don’t. Well, I remember my brother, my brother, when my kid was like one or no before, actually when my first daughter was born, he’s like, the first year you’re just trying to keep ’em alive. Yep. You know, like he kind of said that tongue in cheek, but it’s actually not just the first year. Right. Jeff (52m 42s): Yeah, that’s Dave (52m 43s): True. You know, you’re, their entire life you’re sitting there basically doing that. Yep. Because it’s like, there’s always something out there, whether it’s the, you know, I don’t know. Right. You’re worried about drugs, alcohol, other kids being in that zone for sure. Them getting in a car with somebody. Right. All this stuff. But no, I appreciate it. I, I think being a parent, I think a lot of people that listen here, there’s a good chunk that, you know, maybe their kids are already out of the house, but for those that have him in or are younger, I think it’s a, it’s a scary moment, but, but cool to hear your kids on it and he’s driving on his own, it’s for Jeff (53m 11s): Sure scary, but I, I don’t know, it’s like, I always laugh. I think, I think my wife gives new mothers like the best advice ever. And I heard her do this like when we first got married. We’ve been married for over 16 years now. But I, I think it was the best advice I’ve ever heard her give a new mother is trust your own instincts and don’t listen to everybody. Right. And I think that is so profound because what’s odd about the, about us as parents and human beings or whatever, somehow we kind of know what we have to do. Yeah. Right, Dave (53m 41s): Right. Jeff (53m 42s): And it’s just, it’s amazing. We’ve survived as a species without, you know, the internet or whatever, but it, it’s like you don’t need all this extra advice. You, you’ll know what to do when, when the time comes and trust your instincts. So I I, I love our advice on that Dave (53m 56s): One. That’s a great, yeah, I’ll remember that one too. ’cause I think in this day and age, you know, with all the information and misinformation out there, you know, sometimes you just gotta be like, yeah, I’m gonna put that aside and not even look at that stuff and just trust my instincts. Right. That, that’s great advice. Cool. This is awesome Jeff. Well, I think we’ll leave it there for today. We’ll send everybody out to Pescado on the fly.com and I think, yeah, I’m excited for everybody to take a look at these six section rods and, and get ’em in their hands and stuff because I think it is awesome what you have going. So yeah, I appreciate all your time today and all the good work you’re doing with, with Tu and everything out there. Jeff (54m 26s): That’s great. Thanks Dave. Man I app, I had a lot of fun today, so thanks again. Dave (54m 30s): Alright. Quick call to action for you. If you are fired up about this, if you wanna check it out, the six piece rod, the six section rod versus the four and the difference here, check in with Jeff Pescador on the fly.com and get a look at this thing and you’ll find out why this is so nice for traveling. Like you said, if, even if it’s just a backup rod in your suitcase, in your pack on that just goes with you, doesn’t stick out anywhere, this is your chance right now. This is gonna make your life 100% easier, I guarantee it. Here we go. And also, if you get a chance before we get outta here, please follow this show. If you’re on Apple Podcasts, you can do that. Spotify, any podcast app, if you’re listening out there, check in with me as well. I wanna hear from you dave@wetlyswing.com. Dave (55m 12s): We got a big trip going on right now. We’re looking for a couple of people to join Schultz Outfitters and we’re headed to Michigan to Fish Smallmouth Bass, one of the great places, one of the great outfitters, Schultz Outfitters. We had James on recently to talk about the trip. It’s all set up and ready to go. If you want big smallmouth bass, a chance to, to learn this program and take it back to your home waters, now’s the time. You can go check in with me, dave@wetlyswing.com and, and you can get some information there. I’ll, I’ll let you know what we have available. All right, I gotta get rolling. Hope you have a great morning. Hope you have a fabulous afternoon or a super duper evening. Look forward to talking to you and seeing you on that next episode. 2 (55m 54s): Thanks for listening to the Wet Fly, swing Fly fishing show. For notes and links from this episode, visit wet fly swing.com.