Mark Hopley, the Host of the Fly Fishing 97 Podcast is on the podcast to break down his popular show and why he does what he does.  We find out about the Kamloops British Columbia area where Mark is from and why he’s going to podcast till he dies.


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Click here –>>>  Mark Hopley Podcast Transcript for the full transcript or scroll down to the bottom to read the transcript.


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Show Notes with the Mark Hopley 

05:00 – Pennask Lake is the resource where some of the big hatchery stocking fish come from.

06:45 – Phil Rowley was on the podcast in episode 34 here and Denny Rickards was on in episode 64 here.  I’m hopeful to get Brian Chan on as well.  

11:18 – Pete Tyjias was on my podcast in episode 134 here and on Mark’s podcast here.

11:55 – Here’s a link to our Facebook Group where you can ask a question for our next guest.

13:30 –  Brian Wise, Jimmy Watts and Phil Rowley are all big episodes for

16:10 – Here’s the Lani Waller Episode from the fly fishign 97 podcast.

17:30 – The Silver Hilton Lodge on the Babine is Lani Waller’s great place.

19:30 – The Outdoors Online Online Marketing Podcast has been a great way to network with others.

21:10 – Dave sadden is one of Mark’s goto boat companies.

22:50 – I noted the Owyhee River and indicators.


36:45 – Stroud Water Research episode

37:36 – Rick Hafele was on the podcast in episode 37 here and covered entomology and fly fishing.

39:00 – The Scarlet Focus right mixer

41:10 – The Fly Crate is a big sponsor for Mark.

43:08 – Got Fishing and the Yucatan trip was noted here as one of our big hosted trips we have coming up this year.

44:00 – The Helios 3 by Orvis is one of Mark’s great rods

46:40 – Eric Nuzum was on my other podcast here and wrote the book Make Noise.


You can find Mark at the Fly Fishing 97 podcast and Instagram here

fly fishing 97 podcast


Resources Noted in the Show

Lani Waller and some of his DVD’s and/or books.

Focusrite Scarlett 2i2

focusrite scarlett


Videos and/or podcasts Noted in the Show


Read the Full Transcript with Mark Hopley:

Click here:  Mark Hopley Podcast Transcript to get the Full PDF Transcriptf

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(Apologies for any transcription errors – this was generated automatically by

Dave S 0:00
I have Mark Leon from the fly fishing 97 podcast to share his podcasting story and some tips on fishing the Kamloops area. You know I love it when I have another podcast on the line. This is the wet fly swing fly fishing show.

Unknown Speaker 0:14
Welcome to the wet fly swing fly fishing show where you discover tips, tricks and tools from the leading names in fly fishing. Today, we’ll help you on your fly fishing journey with classic stories covering steelhead fishing, fly tying and much more.

Dave S 0:30
Hey, how’s it going everyone thanks for stopping by the fly fishing show. In today’s episode, I talked to mark Copley, who hosts a great fishing podcasts out of Canada. We hear about some of the great guests he’s had on the show over the years. Some of the people you need to connect with up in the Kamloops area and his favorite patterns for steel water. Before we get started, let’s hear from our sponsors. Since 1977, the fly fishing and tying journal has long been considered the anglers magazine with original how tos and technical articles written by the best trout steelhead anglers in the West. They’re committed to sharing exceptionally written essays, fiction, poetry and in depth guides to fly tying and fly fishing. FDJ is one of my go to magazines and if you haven’t checked it out recently, you can get started today by calling 1-800-541-9498 or heading over to the web at Ft. J Got fishing comm is your trusted source of information with access to the world’s best fishing trips. You’ll never pay a dime extra for the trip you book and in many cases less than advertised find out where got fishing could take you by heading over to gut fishing calm today. That’s g ot fishing calm or reach them by phone at 208-630-3373 got fishing COMM The easiest place to start your next fishing adventure. So without further ado, here is Mark Copley from fly fishing 97 how’s it going Mark?

Mark 1:58
Good day. Hey Matt. Thanks Thanks for doing this really appreciate you know getting a chance to chat with you



Dave S 2:04
yeah for sure this is gonna be awesome because I always love getting the chance to interview other podcasters and now you know obviously you’ve got the fly fishing podcast going so we’ve got I think enough that we’re going to be able to fill an hour no problem but yeah before we jump into all the you know the fly fishing I think your show we kind of do the same thing starting off in here a little background story. So can you just tell us how you first got into fly fishing and then how the podcast came to be?

Mark 2:30
You know, it’s funny, I asked everybody that question on the show, and I gotta think about it now. has had a feeling you might ask. Yeah. I’ve been fly fishing probably since I was 1112 years old. So I’m in the the Okanagan Valley in kind of the interior of British Columbia. So we got lots of still waters here. And I guess basically, my dad, actually my my folks were not inefficient whatsoever, but there’s a principal mme school teacher and His name was Bob Dunn, and I’ll never forget it he he took us to a lake called headwaters. So it’s just kind of behind Colonia area. Lake and we were catching all kinds of brook trout, rainbow trout. And I thought, you know what, I can’t figure out how to get into the sport because I’ve never ever done it before. And I was fortunate enough to be on a lake that it was just like, lights out. It’s one of those lakes that the fish are big, but there’s lots of them. And I would say that that kind of got my I got my passion. It got my attention. And ever since that has been everything fly fishing.

Dave S 3:35
Yep. So you’ve been going in was that and you were? How old were you? When you first

Mark 3:40
out? I want to say 12 I’m like 51. Nowadays, I’m really bad with time, but it was Yeah. You know, it was a long time. So the old Ted Peck flyrod remember that? bought at a local store called Woodward’s for back then they’re probably like 1820 bucks Nice.

Dave S 3:56
That’s cool. Yeah. I you know you’re in an area that is Obviously one of the probably the greatest still water areas, you know, maybe in the world and i’ve you know, my dad fished it a ton I remember hearing all the stories and I, the only time I went through there was on my way to the skeena for steelhead, so I haven’t really hit the Kamloops and all that stuff. But I mean, can you describe that whole area in the still water to somebody who hasn’t been up there?

Mark 4:20
Well, the thing that people don’t get is we’re in a desert. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So being in Canada a lot. Not a lot of people think of deserts. No. So we’re at the northern tip of the Sonora desert in its sagebrush, where I’m at it’s sagebrush sand. It’s Ponderosa pines, very similar to parts of California. So what we’ve got here Davis, we’ve got a lot of stillwaters that are basically these lakes have to be stocked or otherwise they wouldn’t hold fish because they do tend to winter kill a lot of them are some of them may or may not have an air Raider. But they’ve got an amazing stocking program in British Columbia. So we’re fortunate enough to have True wild fish as brood stock from there’s a lake called lake which has never been stocked ever and they pull a lot of eggs from there. So basically, you know whether they’re trip Lords or or diploids these fish grow and the bananas are just known to be a voracious insect feeder so it really, really match fly fishing. Well, they’re aerial. It’s like, I mean, it’s everything steelhead is on a smaller scale. That’s cool. How do you spell that?

Unknown Speaker 5:31

Mark 5:32
PWNP Yeah, PWN a SK look them up. They’re beautiful fish. They don’t have a lot of spots. But beautiful sheen beautiful color. They get real clean silver, it depends on the water they’re into they can there’s some real clean cut of aqua blue lakes we fish for they just look like they look like Chrome coho.

Dave S 5:55
mazing. Amazing. Yeah. So that so that’s what it is. I didn’t even realize that either that you I mean yeah you mix the desert with Stillwater and you get a lot of food activity and then you guys with a great stocking program it’s just the perfect mix where you grow these giant fish right

Mark 6:09
well you know what I find Dave is wherever the Ponderosa wherever the timber meets the desert so you got the grasslands kind of neat and and the pines that’s where those fish grow and it seems to be the common denominator it’s all about the pH right? So slightly higher pH waters is you know, your neck of the woods too and Northern California you get into those you know where the pH just kind of getting borderline for the fish to survive but guess what too full of nitrogen they’re full of feed and you gotta be careful with the water temps for sure in the summer but those fish grow big That’s awesome. So I mean, I’ve had you know fill role I’ve had a few

Dave S 6:49
Danny Rickard, some big still water guys on and it seems like you know, it’s a there’s not as many obviously of those gurus are there other Who are the people in your neck of the woods, you got also brought Chan other than those guys are there any other big Stillwater guys that influenced you or do you know about their

Mark 7:06
100% that’s a long long list name to name two of them. I mean Brian Chan is walking encyclopedia without a doubt Phil Rowley has had on the show and same thing and they’re they’re good buddies I think are in business together as well. Yeah. just totally dialed in. I mean as far as Jordan Oelrich great guy to chat with, he’s a guide in the Kamloops area. And what you’ll find David’s a lot of the guys I mean, I go back to jack Shaw. You know, his original books kind of got me into it and then and then of course Brian Chan kind of expanded so much on that but Brian Gill the Douglas les puratchi he he drives a lot of content he he’s just a source of information runs the the private fishing ranch. I don’t know if you know Douglas Lake Ranch, but if You want to get into some seriously big rainbows? And you know it’s some some people love private fishing some Don’t I know myself it’s got a place because especially I’ve noticed that with COVID a lot of likes and getting heavily pressured because for a while there’s only so many places we could go. And I think just having that option to spend 100 bucks you know to go and fish a lake it’s a nice option to have some time I can’t afford to do it every day. But I think you know, it’s it’s good to have kind of let’s just say mix it up a little bit.

Dave S 8:34
This is something I wanted to talk to you about just because it’s you know, it’s interesting for me as far as the the podcast guests and more on the podcasting, right. So on your guests, I was kind of, you know, I’ve listened to some of your episodes as you’re looking through your back catalogue. How do you how do you choose your guests I mean in topics and where you’re going.

Mark 8:55
Well, you and I talked about this just before we started chatting like for me, I try not to be insulting by other fly fishing podcasts too much I want to be influenced by the podcasts that I want to listen to I want to drive the content like for me, just so you know it’s not this is not a how to like fly fishing seven podcast is not how to we may dig into that a little bit here and there but it’s it’s people’s stories and and for me like everyone’s got an amazing story you don’t have to be famous You don’t have to be a famous flyfisher to have an amazing story. But if I run into somebody at a random place having a beer talking fishing, chances are I might ask them to come on the show, because especially if they have an amazing backstory. So whether it’s a military background, or somebody who’s got a musical background or you know just people’s struggles in life, like for me that and I try to always tie it back to fly fishing. So I definitely have a framework for the show. You know, kind of the basics how’d you get into it, but then I want to dig it. I want to know what you listen to on the way to the water. I want to know where your passion comes from. I want to know the sports team you’re cheering for. I want to know lessons to take out a fly fishing so for me it’s I just tried to expand it a little bit get people comfortable and then when the story start coming after that,

Dave S 10:08
yeah, that’s cool and on your you know, the people that listen to your show Do you get I mean, how do you get feedback from them? Or you know, how do you know you’re on the right track?

Mark 10:18
Well, at the end of the show, I always have a tag My wife has radio background so she does the intro and the episode of the show but basically, if you want to hear from somebody specifically email me and emails right at the end of the show, just market efficient nine, seven calm and and I’ve actually gotten a lot of guests that way. But I suspect you and I are similar in the fact that I mean, they come from all over the place. Sometimes I’ll shoot somebody an email at their sometimes I’ll, you know, message them on Instagram or Facebook or sometimes I’ll run into one fly shop to fly shoulders. I try to be diverse with that and not have any one specific way cuz I I’ll be honest with you, I think I felt like I was tapping out Instagram for a while. And I think, like I noticed last week, okay, so I dropped the show and you had the same guy and I know they peek and I’m like crap.

Unknown Speaker 11:13
Ty just right.

Mark 11:15
Yeah. Yeah, he’s awesome. He was a great guy to chat with. Yeah, but that was not that was a total accident, total fluke. I mean, I didn’t know you’re you and I had now conversation, but I know, I let, let’s face it. A lot of these fly fishing industries, too. They’re, they’re putting media out at the same time, whether it’s an author trying to sell a book, so they’re doing the circuit, right. They’re saying, Hey, I have had a lot of people reach out say I got a book coming out. How’d you like to do a show? Oh, yeah. I’m all over that. Yeah. What about you? Where do you get most of you’re

Dave S 11:46
pretty much the same. Yeah, pretty much the same. I I do a little bit of here and there. I try to as much as I can get feedback. You know, I have a Facebook group that, you know, I try to reach out to people in there as much as I can. And, and yeah, I find that Yeah, people let me know I, I try to keep it in seasons as well. So that’s the focus thing where I know if okay, right now I’m on a flight tying season. And although you know, we’re not talking about fly tying specifically, overall I can kind of have a number of episodes in flight tying then I can direct people that way. And that helps me focus to like I have this week I have Morton, from a Rex hooks coming on, right. And typically, I wouldn’t have had him on but I ran into him at the Denver show. And it was, you know, I mean, the shows that’s another good place right networking. So I just like you, man everywhere. I get people from all over the place.

Mark 12:39
Yeah, and I sound since COVID-19. And to be honest with you. I mean, I think you and I are in the same boat. We’re not doing a lot of face to face. And I found it very easy to get people to talk right now. Well, there was a lot of guides that weren’t doing anything. They were kind of Time flies and chomping at the bit to get out there and they wanted to talk.

Dave S 12:58
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. It’s it’s Good well I had a you know I guess let’s keep it on this the episodes a little bit further before we dig back into the the Stillwater stuff so I mean what is you know what episode was your your biggest or most popular or do you have a favorite or anything like that?

Mark 13:14
Yeah that’s funny yes

I always say the last shows a favorite because I kind of feel that way you know? Yeah, the truth I mean I feel Rolly was amazing I had Brian wise on from fly fishing in the Ozarks yeah under that character. Yeah, I had Jimmy watts that he’s a bamboo rod builder out of the Seattle area who basically hangs off the back of the fire truck during the day and I’ll tell you that guy, man he’s I couldn’t listen to him talk all day. I got Lonnie Waller coming up. Oh,

Dave S 13:44
you got lucky. Oh, that’s awesome. Oh, how did you how did you track down Livewire because he seems like a guy that’s disappeared off the map.

Mark 13:52
Well, you know what I did is I had a guide by the name of Dave Lisi out of Cooper landing, Alaska and we’re talking And steelhead and this guy has a huge passion for steelhead and a lot of times my guests come from my guess who they want to talk to. So Dave was saying, you know, I have so much respect for for lonnis books and his steelhead DVDs and, and he’s a steelhead guru, right. So he said, Man, you want to read some good writing league read Lonnie Walters writing so I just randomly emailed him on his web, you can any of these people you can find online. And I said, Hey, Lonnie, Dave Lisi from Alaska said, You’re the guy. How would you feel about coming on the show? and and you know what? He said, No, man, I’m he didn’t say no man. But he said, No, I’m not. That’s not my scene. I’m not a computer guy. Blah, blah, blah. I said, Look, me neither. I hate computers. But I like talking fishing. And it’s just a conversation. How’d you like to come on and have a chat and he’s like, absolutely. So usually, I just kind of let that go. You know what I mean? It’s like didn’t want to do it but I don’t chase people. I’ll ask him a few times and you know if they want to come on great if they don’t, I’ll chat with somebody else because there’s a lot of people that want to talk fishing. And, you know, it’s the hardest part for me and I don’t know about you, Dave, but just is lining up to schedules. Mm hmm. You know, I got a day job and it’s like it’s it’s all encompassing. So basically I’m working 24 seven these days just trying to get podcasts edited now, but I love it and I think I mentioned to you earlier I I would not stop doing this even if podcast went the way the dodo bird I would still do it for content.

Dave S 15:39
For sure, for sure. Yeah, it’s I think that’s one of the things I always say is that you wouldn’t who was I talking about? I’m trying to think now. But yeah, you got to have that passion because you know, you’re not going to make a million dollars. Typically doing this thing. You know what I mean? You got to have that passion. So and Lonnie Waller man that’s amazing because I eat Hold some story. Is it out? Is it out yet?

Mark 16:02
No, man, I am editing it right now. It’s gonna be released on Wednesday. What’s the date today? for July 1? I’m gonna Oh nice. See,

Dave S 16:11
that’s what’s great about it because I’ve got my little cue of you know, I mean so with that pops out it’s gonna be cured in Lonnie was we kind of joke about a little bit because yeah, he’s a steelhead guru and you know, my home river down here is the dish shoots and he made some videos on the dish shoots and he’s got he’s got this one where we joke about it we say what’s he say? He says something jumper in the tail outer. He said this fame, this funny quote, and he just had this huge steel head on and caught it and I fished that same water. You know, I mean, I just know the same, and I’ve hooked some amazing fish there. So I think that’s what I want to talk with Lonnie and see if I get them on as well. But those are you know what,

Mark 16:49
yeah, I’m an email and tell him you and I were chatting. He’s just an amazing individual. And I found them really, really sharing of information. I think he’s in Mexico right now. Oh, yeah.

Dave S 17:00
Did he give so is he totally done with steelhead fishing? Hell no. Okay, he’s still doing oh

Mark 17:05
he’s 80 years old and still going strong okay? He’s chasing permit bonefish steelhead. He still gets to California and Alaska. And and his, his I think his real heart is kind of in actually in my province here in British Columbia. He spent a lot of time on the Fabien Yep. And that’s right. I believe it’s called silver Hilton law. Oh, yeah. Where

Dave S 17:28
he had been I’ve been Yeah, we floated we floated by we’ve Yeah, that’s that’s amazing area.

Mark 17:35
Yeah. Amazing, amazing guy to chat with. And he’s really you asked my favorite show that’s that’s probably the one so far but it’s, it’s always changing. I had a guy by the name of Maitland Mike on and he does a lot of steelhead and on Lake Huron and this trips, and you want to talk I know you’re you’re big into the wet fly swing this guy. You should chat with Mike he cool. He’s

Dave S 17:58
dialed in. That’s all Yeah, there’s a, it seems like, you know, there’s a bunch of guests, we’re never gonna have a problem running out of people. Right? That’s, that’s no problem.

Mark 18:08
Well, that’s it first, I’ll be honest with you, David. First, I was worried about that. I thought, well, who’s gonna? I mean, how much ground Can you cover? But yeah, I think when you bring it back to life lessons and you bring it back to people’s stories, people don’t run out of stories, and everyone’s got one exam. And it’s just kind of tying it back for that content. So you have that common thread. Yep.

Dave S 18:28
It’s cool one. I mean, obviously, this like you said, the star, this is the, you know, networking, whatever you want to call it, the fact that we’re kind of connecting here. Yeah, you never know where this goes, right? I mean, just right away by me. interviewing you, right? You’re gonna have a whole bunch of people that maybe hadn’t heard of you, and hopefully, you know, you’ll get you’ll get in their queue as one of their top seven podcasts. Right?

Mark 18:50
Well, and that’s what you know what, that’s what I love about about this industry, not just the fly fishing, but the podcasting is it really is one big giant network and there’s a lot A lot of crossover, it comes up all the time on the show. I mean, the crossover and the outdoor activities, whether you’re into mountain biking or climbing or hiking or camping or canoeing or kayaking. I mean, it’s all the same language. Really?

Dave S 19:12
Yeah. Well, you know, it’s been interesting. We’ll probably talk about this when we chat. You know, again on our next you know, we’re kind of doing a double Andrew here but you know, the new podcast I have the outdoors Online Marketing Podcast, where I’m interviewing expert, right, these huge internet marketers, they it’s actually hasn’t been as easy right as the fly fishing because these people have all been on a gazillion podcasts and I can’t miss I haven’t been I’ve got some huge guests, but a lot of them right. I haven’t been able to get the gigantic guests on.

Mark 19:40
Well, I know you I heard you mentioned some pretty darn big names on another podcast that you have on the outdoor Yep, online marketing podcast. And I think you’re really smart doing that because you’re, you’re networking on a larger scale and you’re expanding your horizons and Yep, it’s probably you’re gonna get some more content for your other podcasts, the wet fly swing as well. Totally, totally. Yeah, it’s

Dave S 19:59
hopefully it And it builds on each other. So well let’s take it to let’s take it back to the water and again Can you remind remind us where your What is your home water and then maybe talk about how you how you catch the fish there and what when what species are you focused on?

Mark 20:13
I mean, it’s it’s largely rainbow trout centric. I mean that’s that’s what I’m chasing. There’s there’s three or four strains specifically we mentioned the pinaster beginning of the show and that’s that’s kind of the number one in my book. They’ve got a new strain which is called the horsefly that gets real Ariel to in the Blackwater strain more of a predatory nature kind of like your pyramid like fish that are you know, they’re after those shiners anything Blackwater related which kind of originates in in British Columbia in the Blackwater river area. They they are looking for big meals they’re looking for big fish are looking for large dragons. They’ll take Chrono it’ll take niches, but they’re definitely looking for meat. So streamer patterns things like that will work but in answer your question where I’m fishing Stillwater, I’m fishing on a like a Dave Scadden. Yep pontoon boat or I’ve got 14 and a half foot Arctic Cat that we use on bigger water. But it’s mostly float to pawn to pontoon fly fishing where I’m at. We also have, you know, I fished the similkameen River a fair bit. It’s limited windows. I mean, you got a couple of good months you know, it’s like any any river system we get some some pretty high runoff here and things don’t really settle down for another couple of weeks usually once once July hits I get July, it’s basically September and then you got to watch because that water temp gets so warm in August, you know, so you got to pick your spots. But I would say this gave 80% of my fishing is with a small strike indicator and a Chrono just because that’s such a large part of the fish’s diet at work. It works and all you have to do is tap into that resource once and I guarantee it’ll never leave your blood it’s like no. cron with fishing for me is I try to fish with an indicator whenever I can. I know that’s not a purist thing but I don’t really care. I don’t care. It’s like there’s lots of different ways to fly fish don’t get me wrong. I love to get them on El Kheir caddis on top and yet when the catalysts are poppin that’s gonna happen, but that’s more of a late July kind of thing around here.

Dave S 22:29
That’s cool. Yeah, I agree. The indicator in the in the steel water the cron image is huge. I’ve I’ve I remember my first time using those was on a same thing, a similar stream. It was the law he and it was same thing. I had a under indicare a little chronometer about a foot and a half under it. And it was lights out, you know what I mean? And it was cool. It was it was a good time. So So okay, so we got it. You know, it’s rainbow trout. It’s you’ve got these likes, and is it still and it’s 80% of the time you’re fishing still water versus stirring. Seems

Mark 23:01
Yeah, I’d say even closer than 90 if I’m being perfectly honest. Okay. I mean, we will, we’ll pick a section of the river. But it’s usually in July and August. And we’ll take off like, say, I don’t know, a 10 mile section and we’ll just take a couple trucks drop in at one point and pull out another and spend the day. Oh, yeah. I love it. That’s that for me, honestly, is probably my favorite way to fish. It’s just the reality is it takes a lot of time. And it’s, you know, we’ve all got day jobs or most of us do, and I got 15 days a year plus weekends to you know, make that happen, which is sometimes limiting but yeah,

Dave S 23:42
yeah. So you guys so you are putting in so these are big lakes and you’re putting in and doing a shuttle on the lake.

Mark 23:48
No, sorry. Sorry. That’s on the river. So okay, Dave. So So on the say the similkameen River roll put in and knock off eight to 10 miles or more. But as far as the lakes I’m fishing mostly smaller lakes to be honest with you, that’s where I mean there are some very big lakes in my area we got 100 mile Lake Okanagan languages, which is big ska Lake, which is another lake which which is a large lake. We’ve got, you know, bass, smallmouth bass, largemouth bass perch. Yeah. But I mean, I’m definitely focused on trout. So that means a lot of times getting out of the valley bottom getting up more into the Alpine and chasing rainbow trout, you know, two to two to 10 pounds, a lot of them two would be two would be quite average. A lot of lakes we fish. But if you really want to hunt some big fish, they’re out there. It’s just some of those waters get get a fair bit of pressure.

Dave S 24:46
Oh, sure. Sure. Okay. And so on the smaller lakes Do you fish them differently than you do some of the larger lakes?

Mark 24:52
Um, yes. Because I mean, the I look for shoals like so if a lake has nice shoals I mean, if you get an aerial picture better if you’ve got a I don’t even know the correct term for this. I always say topographical but I’m sure there’s another Oh,

Dave S 25:07
I think bathymetric I think maybe

Mark 25:09
bathymetric There you go. Yeah, I’ve never used that word yet. I love it. So yeah, like, that’ll show you the drops and whatnot. But I mean, the fish that we’re usually targeting are patrolling those shoals. So we’ll anchor deep and cast in shallow sometimes I’ll go in Super shallow if there’s if there’s a steep drop and you know, the fish won’t see you at all in your on your deep side, we do that. That works well, sometimes to kind of get a little reverse psychology, I think.

Dave S 25:38
So you’re on the testicles. So you’re saying you’re on the deep side or the shallow side fishnet?

Mark 25:42
Well, we do both. Normally. Normally the deep side casting in towards shell.

Dave S 25:46
Oh, cool. Yeah, right.

Mark 25:48
But sometimes, you know, like, say when there’s a damsel migration, or hats, those guys are, they’re coming from the deeper water and they’re swimming towards the reeds. So, sometimes when you’re in shallow, I think that’s kind of an underutilized Way to fish to be honest with you because it makes sense that you’re bringing them towards the shallows because that’s the way those dragons and damsels are swimming.

Dave S 26:07
Oh yeah so you’re bringing them towards the shallow so you’re exactly so now remind me and tell me tell me again how you’re fishing that so you’re in the deep water you’re casting into the shoal so they can’t see you as well.

Mark 26:17
Yeah, in that case, we’re usually fishing strike indicators so you might be 15 feet down under an indicator. Oh right efficient emergent. But if if what I’m saying is if there’s damsel hatches or dragonfly ABS is those fish those insects are not swimming out to the middle of lake to hatch, they’re they’re usually looking for reeds to climb up on and emerge right so it makes more sense that you’re swimming towards the shore and I think I think sometimes a lot of people miss that they fish you know, shallow to deep which is great if you’re fishing krumitz because they’re just coming straight up in the water column but those some of those larger and sexual and more efficient dazzles and, and dragons, even catus they’re usually heading towards the shore, right? They’re looking for something to climb. Upon. Hmm,

Dave S 27:01
interesting. Yeah, I had a, I mentioned Danny records was on he’s a kind of a big guru down in our neck of the woods and he broke down in the podcast like a step by step how he catches fish. And it was pretty sweet how he broke it down. But he said, You know, he always fishes perpendicular, you know, so to the shore, you know, I mean, so just kind of dragging that fly in front of these fishes. They’re going into feed in the shallows, and then sure, you know, then I had another guest on that actually contradicted that a little bit. It’s interesting. What’s your take? Do you have a Well, yeah,

Mark 27:32
it’s funny. It’s funny. That’s, that’s a great question. I do fish perpendicular quite a bit. But in the back of my mind, and I don’t know this to be true, but I have a feeling that if you are fishing perpendicular, you’re probably spooking fish coming the other way behind you, if that makes sense. So think of it this way a fish are cruising the shoreline. They don’t want to see you overtop of them in 15 feet of water. So if you’re out in the deep or out in the shallow, I think you’re probably going to scoop less fish, but you’re also fishing perpendicular. You’re going to be in the zone or let’s face it because that’s where those fish are is that kind of that transition? they’ll pop out of the deepwater where they’re protected from, you know, Ospreys and loons and and jet up grab a meal and jet back down. That’s it.

Dave S 28:14
That’s it cool. Well I have a little quick little segment I usually do it’s the 222 top two tips, top flies top resources and if we’re looking at you know, on still waters and thinking of your home water here, some of these lakes you mentioned chronic as you have a couple of Stillwater flies if you had to pick two for fishing tomorrow.

Mark 28:36
I love that question. Tomorrow, it will, let’s put it this way. I gotta say it’s gonna be a cron but the first line I’m gonna pick and it’s gonna have to have a gray body with a black rib. I don’t even have a name for this slide to be honest with you. I do a lot of time myself but I see I see a black bead black tungsten bead white Kill unit thread kill unit stretch Excuse me. And then I just go for a thin gray body with a black rib like an extra small black wire rib and that works so well around here I think because it they take it as a mayfly, they take it as a as a chronometer. Other than that I’d probably have to say a big big office I mean like a big deer hair dragon fly pattern alright darners are great too. I mean, those hits are are addictive right because they hit them like a freight train going in the opposite direction. Totally different style of fishing but they both have their place and if it’s fall late summer I’m probably fishing something a little Meteor like like a dragon.

Dave S 29:45
There you go. And and so in on those flies the said there wasn’t really a name if we went to search on Google

Mark 29:50
yet. Yeah. Well on the on the deer hair golf is in gray and green. That would probably be a go to for me. And then as far as the chronic I mean, the other one is a is a, just a black and black body chronic with a red rib and a white bead, we used to call them an ice cream cone. I don’t even know the name for it, but you’ll find them in every flight shop around here. It’s kind of a standard go to, but I’ll be honest with you what I’ve found with chronomancer the last few years is you need to get a little bit more creative because sometimes whatever is working now may not work three years from now and sometimes you have to tweak it a little bit. I know it sounds funny, but it’s almost like the fish get used to it on highly pressured systems and then you got to show them something a little different whether it means having a red tag, like just a little bit of hemoglobin showing through this red so important and in any crown wood pattern is you know, because there’s usually there’s usually a little bit of red somewhere in there. If not, it’s black or gray.

Dave S 30:51
Okay, and and then what about tips so you’re out there fishing tomorrow or this week and you’re, you’re let’s say you’re on one of the lakes, maybe one of those smaller lakes fish With Chrono meds or you know, any tips for helping somebody, maybe find a couple of fish

Mark 31:06
travel around, because even on these small lakes, there can be huge hatches going on 100 yards behind you and you don’t even know them. So watch, watch the birds watch the swallows where the swallows feeding. Look for casings coming off, like if there’s nothing in your area and you’re trying to fish around and then cruise around a little bit, because the water temperature isn’t is usually different. All over the lake. If if you’re in shallow water, it’s usually a little warmer depending on the time season but find the hatches because I can make or break. And then the other thing I would say is we use fishfinders all the time. So if those fish are in 15 feet and you’re coming up on a whole big school of them, well put that crown and at 15 feet under an indicator and just wait because that’s when things get good. If you find the fish you can usually get into them. That’s where I get nervous is when you don’t see the fish because a lot of times They just seem to be cruising kind of haphazardly and the fish finder is not going often those usually tend to be harder days for me personally, but if you find the fish, you can usually put some from you’re usually in for a good day. That’s and these fish finders you’re using these on on a little like a Skadden boat. Yeah, so we’re using like, Don’t make many more but efficient buddy to Oh, that’s a hummingbird product. And there’s all kinds of new ones now out there. I mean, fishfinders is you know, the technology just gets Wilder and Wilder I find for me personally, I like the simple ones that sometimes the more options and the more colors and the fancier they get the more there is to go wrong. But fishing buddy twos been a great fighter for a lot of years. I wish they still made it

Dave S 32:45
Yeah, that’s a great and I’ve never been a real big fish fighter just because I just never went into it but yeah, for those boats so you can get them small enough where you’re you know the battery everything isn’t weighing you down. You can get all your gear on there. No problem.

Mark 32:57
Yeah, hundred percent just takes batteries in the handle. And they last a long time.

Dave S 33:02
Okay, and what about what about resource? What about if somebody was going to be heading up there to fish? You know that year that you know your area? What would they, you know, anything online books, magazine websites, any resources to help them maybe get prepared for a trip up there?

Mark 33:16
Yeah, you know, I’d probably, you can look at

Well, for one thing, shoot me an email, I’d be happy to help you set you up in the right direction. I would say, give Jordan alrik a call in Kamloops if you want to fish that area, because there’s a guy that’s doing it professionally as a guide, real knowledgeable guy knows knows the waters. I would call Brent Gill at the Douglas Lake Ranch and say Hey, what do you recommend they’ll they’ll set you up on some some beautiful, you know, once in a lifetime kind of trips out of their lodge there and the Gup beautiful accommodations. But if you’re coming up this way, shoot me an email just market fly fishing line seven calm and I’ll punch in the right direction.

Dave S 33:59
That’s perfect. That’s probably Yeah, it sounds like and as we were talking earlier, you, you know, you listen, a lot of podcasts, but not necessarily a ton of flyfishing podcasts, if you had any, any other ones that, you know, if you had to think of a fly fishing or a podcast that talks about still, I can’t think of one. Is there one out there that, uh,

Mark 34:17
I don’t know if there’s any of that specifically. I know Jordan Auric actually had one on actually he has a podcast on fly fishing Stillwater, specifically in our region. Yeah, I’ll be honest with you. I try to keep it a little more general because what I finding is, I don’t just want to talk about the areas that I’m in. Yeah, I want to talk about Colorado. I want to talk about Maine I want to talk about Ontario. You know, we’ve had you guys from guys and gals from from the UK and all over South Africa. I mean, it’s such a universal sport pastime that i think i think it’s cool when we kind of get at least a slight understanding of what other you know fishers are doing because it’s not the same all over the place. So when we’re we’re chasing similar fish and probably similar hatches, but the the techniques and the methods vary drastically.

Dave S 35:09
Yeah, exactly. So you kind of spread around but would you say you have more episodes focused on kind of Canadian areas and all that or is it a good MC? No,

Mark 35:19
no, no, no. So what I do is I try never to be in the same region back to back. So gotcha. I’ll have I got Lonnie on he’s in Mexico, but that’s basically steelhead. Then I’ll go to Wisconsin or and then you know what I mean, I try to bounce around a lot. I try not to do two regions back to back. Just to keep it a little fresh. I think you know, I don’t want to be known as just still water podcast personally. I think for me, that’s a little limiting. I just want to talk fishing with with passionate people.

Dave S 35:52
Yeah, you know, I did, I did the same. I start out with a steel head focused, you know, the first 30 years or so episodes, but then I came to the realization I was like, well, man, I don’t want to speak just steel head I want to kind of talk about everything and I think that makes it more enjoyable right? I think that’s the way to do it. So

Mark 36:09
yeah, no, I agree hundred percent then then by that way you never run out of content you keep it fresh. And there’s just so much to learn out there like you could get a an entomologist talking dragon fly patterns, you know what it means? Yes.

Dave S 36:23
There’s just so many ways to come at it and none of us know at all. No, I was just gonna say do you have a entomologist that has been on talking about drugs or have you had any apologists on

Mark 36:34
I have from Stroud?

Stroud freshwater research, I believe is okay. And in Penn State. Also, I had on I’ve had some fisheries biologists on it had some people from the fisheries basically Ministry of Environment once I run the fishing, the fish docking program So we talked about strains we talked about actually, that was interesting to me. Hearing the experts talk about the different strains because it’s changing all the time. And it’s not static in the technology. I mean, anytime these triplets fish letter, all female fish that just don’t stop growing and never go never get, you know, egg bound because they don’t spawn. Those are usually the pretty, pretty big fish in my neck of the woods using.

Dave S 37:29
That’s amazing. Yeah, I always love to hear they enjoy it. We’ve got one, Rick hatefully, who I’ve had on he’s our big entomologist, kind of down here. I’ve struggled to find other one other people. But yeah, it sounds like you’ve got a few off to dig into some of your back catalogue.

Mark 37:44
Yeah, Strout, Strout. They’ve got a team. They’ve got a team of entomologist there and just some amazing people and they’re doing some great things in Penn State. And all over Actually, that’s right. I think it’s called Strout freshwater research.

Dave S 37:58
Yeah, I think that’s right. Cool. All right, Mark. Well, hey, I got a little rapid fire round here. If you want to take us out of here, you ready to jump into this year? Let’s see. So we’ve been talking, you know a little bit about podcasting. A little bit about fishing. I did want to dig it a little bit on the podcast just to hear I love to hear, you know, from another fellow podcaster. Your, how you set up your things. Can you talk just quickly about kind of your mic, what mic you use and how you set it up really quick? It’s just for the the nerdy podcasting part.

Mark 38:24
I went out and got a Shure mic. So I’m basically bought the most expensive mic I could find and I think only because for me that’s, that’s the tool, right? So without a good mic, you really don’t have anything. So yeah, so you got the you’ve got the Shure mic and then you go into a mixer and then into your computer. Yeah, so I’m just I’m coming off a msi laptop. Just got my iPhone. All I’m doing I don’t even have a mixer board right now. I do plan on getting a new board. I’m going through a scarlet. Okay, focus, focus, right as the name of it. That’s right so

Dave S 39:01
so right now we’re talking so I’m we’re talking through Skype and then your your Skype is coming through your phone. Correct? Oh yeah. So it’s coming through your phone and then level into the boards into the board and then the board has your mic plugged into it. Yeah, what’s your recording?

Mark 39:17
Yeah, I found that works really well for me and I found that I’m sure you’re probably similar Skype is the way to go as far as audio quality that’s fine with the cell phone sometimes it drops out depending on especially when you’re talking to guides in the middle of nowhere. If they have decent Wi Fi.

Dave S 39:33
Yeah, Skype is usually the way to go. You know, it’s interesting for me I have got I’ve got a road caster pro sitting here on my desk and I don’t even use it you know, I mean, I do use it but it’s just it’s I like the the zoom h6 for it’s really small and compact and easy to just record on, you know, on my end, but um, I find that the road caster I know there’s a couple podcasts use it and that’s thing when they call in the cell phone, you know, you can hear the guests it really sounds like it’s a cell phone You know what I mean? or Skype, my Skype when I record some of my guests on a phone. I try to get him on Skype like we’re doing but I just find the quality like you said the quality is better for with Skype and Skype has been around for like 20 years. So

Mark 40:13
to be honest with you, sometimes I cannot tell the difference between an in house interview with somebody you’re looking in the eye. Yep, or Skype. It’s really the quality’s amazing, but I find I never use the video, because then it does drop out once in a while. Yeah. What the audio is killer.

Dave S 40:30
Yeah. That’s great. That’s great. Cool. So in on podcasting, Amy, I think we’ve covered a lot of stuff I wanted to dig into, did you? You know, I guess think about the show. Can you just talk about long term plans? Sounds like you’re going to be in this Do you have a plan? Kind of a me sounds like you have some looking at sponsors and stuff like that. Well, what’s your plan long term with the podcast?

Mark 40:51
My plan is just to keep doing creative content, capturing people’s stories that are passionate in the industry. You know, I’m not trying to Make a million bucks doing this all on. This is a for me, it’s a passion. So we’re sponsored by the fly crate which I’m really thankful, grateful that Nate and the guys step in and do that because they’ve been big supporters and it, I’m not going to stop doing it. So yeah, whether I’m getting it or not, I’m gonna keep doing it. It started out just so you know, the reason it’s called flyfishing 97 podcast is I’m on the middle of highway 97, which it’s a big highway, it runs from weed, California, goes all the way to Watson Lake Yukon. And there are countless fishing opportunities on that highway. So that’s kind of where it started, but then we just tried to branch out a little bit, keep it fresh and plan on doing this for a long time, Dave, that’s awesome. Okay, that’s good. So I always love hearing that because this, you know, likewise with me, I mean, these episodes are going to be out there for a long time, so it’ll be fun to check back with you down the line.

Dave S 41:57
So on some random, I guess Little bit more random stuff what’s on your your bucket list any any places you want to hit up before you know before you head out of here?

Mark 42:09
Yeah, how about Argentina? Yeah, you know I would love to get down there and chase some of those I know the slang is what Jurassic Lake yeah I can’t remember proper name it’s a Spanish shoots not coming to me now but I mean those guys are chasing some giant giant fish it looks pretty exciting to me. I’d love to get into some more sea run like I keep hearing about these see Ron Brown Yep. Love to try that I have not tried that. And there’s you know steel hadn’t i’d love there’s a few rivers up in in in British Columbia that I definitely need to get to the bat beam is definitely on that list. bulkley You know, I know per permit bonefish not done any warm weather. What about you? Where do you want to

Dave S 42:59
go? Yeah, that’s I’m we’re setting up, one of our sponsors got fishing. Brian’s helped me set up a trip to the Yucatan. So that’s going to be really my first big saltwater trip early next year. So cool. Yeah, I’m still looking for a few more people to go on that. But I think if that comes together, it’s got the big four, you know, so we’ll be covering it pretty good. And then so what about get just quickly on gear? Do you have any specific What do you use? What like rod wise, do you have a rod really companies you want to give a shout out to?

Mark 43:30
I’m an orifice guy. And I like I get I don’t get anything for anything. So anything you hear on the podcast is basically just from trial and error and what what I like but yeah, for me, I like a 10 foot rod for the type of fish and we’re doing five wages perfect. I just find you need a little more leverage, especially if you’re casting some long leaders with indicators and whatnot. tend to get a little top heavy. I’ve got a Helios three f that I I love but I’ve also done a hardy I love I’ve got an echo. You know, they all have their place. And yeah, you know, I’m talking Canadian dollars here so 12 All right, well, 1200 bucks for a fly rod. It’s not a no. So, I mean, I love what some of these companies are doing in the three 400 like echo Douglas, there’s a lot of great brands out there. And I’m not going to go and spend 1200 dollars on a fly rod very often, but when I do it’s, it’s a beautiful run. I like the fast action rod that’s, that’s I’m not the greatest caster in the world. I get it out there. I know it’s flawed. But I I’m old school I learned a long time ago and it’s pretty hard to change my habits. Yeah,

Dave S 44:41
yeah, I hear ya. I hear I’m kind of the same way. It’s it’s not perfect, but I could I could get it out there. Cool, Mark. Well, I think we’re about there anything else before we get out of here? I think we’re going to kind of hit up another show here quickly so we’ll probably dig into some other stuff. But in the next 612 months if you want to give a shout out anything you have come with us yourself for the podcast, anything new?

Mark 45:02
Well just said we’re just, we’re just trying to get more more people that are passionate about fly fishing and I appreciate you doing this because for me, it’s just that shared passion. I’m looking forward to having you on my show. That’s gonna be exciting. You got Lonnie, Lonnie Walters steelhead, coming up as huge. Yeah, we’re working on a few things, but I I try not be honest with you, Dave. I try not to get too far ahead. Because what I found if I have 15 shows in the bag, sometimes I lose that relevancy in the current stuff that’s going on like when COVID hit. Oh, yeah, I had all these shows. And these guys are saying, Well, I’m going here I’m flying to believe Well, guess what, you’re not going anywhere. Now all sudden, I had to kind of backtrack and say okay, so now guys are sitting at home what’s going on how you keep them busy. So we try to be current, but at the same time, not get too far ahead. I’m usually about two three weeks out and I try to just kind of keep the

Dave S 45:52
shows that way. There you go. So you schedule Let me try to get so right now do you have a few episodes scheduled up and ready to go in the queue?

Mark 46:00
I only have to, you know, I’m gonna have three after this. So yeah, so and then that’s kind of my comfort zone, three shows in the bag. And because then I can really focus in on I like editing, and then not that I want it to be polished and perfect. Yeah, because I definitely try to capture people’s kind of personalities. So sometimes I find if I edit too much it kind of you got to be careful with that, right? And the interviewing, you know, what I’m learning is is how to interview people because that is a skill. And it takes time to develop that. For sure.

Dave S 46:32
Yeah. I’ll give another shout out the outdoors online marketing podcast. I had probably, I think one of the biggest guests in in the podcast space. Eric Newsom. He’s the guy that created the TED our podcast and all a lot of the NPR podcasts. He’s Well, he goes way back and, and he wrote a book called make noise. And I always love to recommend that for anybody in podcasting, because it’s a huge book. It doesn’t talk about the kind of the how tos but it’s more of the The deeper stuff on podcasting, and it was just a great interview. So I’ll put a link in the show notes to that one as well for anybody that wants to check that out. But yeah, Mark, this has been fun. I think we’re gonna we’re gonna keep going here a little bit, but I just wanted to say, you know, thanks for coming on here as we wrap this up by Like I said, I think I’ve had a few people definitely have reached out to me and said, you know, you got to chat with Barack and they love your show. So I love what you’re doing over there. And yeah, let’s just keep in touch as we go and kind of keep moving forward.

Mark 47:28
Well, hopefully you and I’ll be able to chase some fans. I’d really love it. If you’re up in my neck of the woods. Give me a shout. I love what you’re doing with the show both of them. And thanks for doing this man. All right, man. We’ll talk to you soon. Cheers.

Dave S 47:40
So there you go. If you want to find all the show notes with all the links we cover, just go to wet fly slash 149. Have you asked a question for one of our guests yet? I’d love if you could head over to wet fly swing comm slash Facebook and enjoying the group we have going just click join and And I’ll reply to you pretty quick this is a great chance for you to get in on the action and actually get some your your biggest questions answered. So we’d love to hear from you over there. And and thanks for listening I really appreciate the support every show is is huge for me so I want to thank you for that and and want to thank you today for some bye I hope to catch up with you soon maybe see you out there online or on that river.

Unknown Speaker 48:28
Thanks for listening to the wet fly swing fly fishing show. For notes and links from this episode visit wet fly swing COMM And if you found this episode helpful, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes.

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owyhee river
photo via: Fly Water Travel

kamloops british columbia

Conclusion with Mark

Mark Hopley from the Fly Fishing 97 Podcast is on to share some tips and stories from his experience fishing up out of the Kamloops area.  Mark shares some Stillwater tips on getting and staying in the zone more often.