747 | Swinging Flies for Atlantic Salmon with Rod Brophy of Mountain Waters Resort

Dave (2s): The history and tradition in fly fishing is something that brings us all together. I enjoy thinking about the people and places that have paved the way and brought us all together. And today we have a guy that has been fishing for more than 50 years in an area that was made famous by Lee Wolf. And today we’re going to get his best tips on swinging flies for Atlantic salmon. So you have a better chance and are better prepared to catch a migratory fish this year. This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, And what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. This is Dave host of the Wet Fly Swing podcast. I’ve been fly fishing since I was a little kid, grew up around a little fly shop and created one of the largest fly fishing podcasts out there. Dave (45s): Rod Brophy Master Guide at Mount Waters Resort is going to break down how they catch big Atlantic salmon on the surface with bombers and the Portland hitch. We’re gonna talk about the riffle hitch today. You’re also gonna find out how to rig your leader for success, what his top flies are that he uses year round, and his story of growing up in the place that was made famous by Lee Wolf more than 75 years ago. Plus, we’re gonna be heading in with Rod this year to Phish. If you want to check in on availability, send me an email, dave@wetlywinging.com. We’re gonna be there hitting it hard for Atlantic salmon and we’re gonna get into it all today. He was landing Atlantic salmon before most of us were even thought of. Dave (1m 25s): Here he is, rod Brophy from Mountain Waters Resort ca. How you doing Rod? Rod (1m 32s): Good, thank you. Dave (1m 33s): Yeah, thanks for jumping in here for another episode. We did one with the whole crew at the start here. We’ll put a link to that episode as well. It was fun to kinda get a background from Ryan and you know, and Ryan’s dad. And we kinda talked about, you know, the fishing, we’re gonna go back deep dive into Atlantic Salmon, into Newfoundland and kinda everything you guys do up there, we’ve got some people that are coming. I’m gonna be there. And it’s exciting because I think the differences between steelhead and especially like summer steelhead and Atlantic salmon is really interesting. I think a lot of the, the books, I mean there’s some, I remember one of the first books I read was called, I think it was called Steelhead Trout, a small book, but it was cool because it was written about Atlantic salmon, but a lot of those things apply directly to summer steelhead. Dave (2m 19s): Right. So it’s gonna be cool to talk about that today. But first off, maybe let’s take it back to the start for you. What’s your first memory? How’d you get into fly fishing? Rod (2m 26s): Wow, that’s a long time ago with my dad. That seemed to be a, a thing you did at here back in the days, of course, you know, the Lee Wolf days in the forties. And, and as it progressed through, of course my dad used to fish and when I was about eight years old, he started taking me on the river. Oh boy. I don’t know. I’m more in twos now than I was back then, I think. Dave (2m 54s): Yeah. So you were fishing for Atlantic salmon when you were eight years old? Rod (2m 58s): Yeah, actually my granddaughter got 1 0 3 4 years ago. She was eight years old. I had her out fishing. Dave (3m 6s): No kidding. Yeah. Yeah. Truly. So you’ve been in this area, you’ve been fishing this, these rivers for quite a while. Rod (3m 13s): A lifetime, Dave, over 50 years, right? Yeah, I’ve actually fished it alone and that, and we fished it with my dad. Back then there was nothing, you know, as in you have very up here in Newfoundland or in Newfoundland, there was very few flies or chess waders or things like that. It’s amazing what you used to just to go fishing. Dave (3m 36s): Yeah. What would you do back then when you were a kid? What were you wearing? Because are are there situations where you’re waiting pretty deep? What, how does that look? Rod (3m 44s): No, my dad would take me on his back and there’s places in the center, outside part of the river that pools that you could actually get stand on rocks. Oh Dave (3m 54s): Yeah. Rod (3m 55s): It was like a small island of rocks and would fish that area. So I would be regulated to certain areas in the river. Dave (4m 1s): Gotcha. So he’d wait across, he’d find a little gravel bar he’d put you on that, you’d fish your run and then he would go out to the deeper areas. Rod (4m 9s): Exactly. Yeah. Dave (4m 10s): Wow. So we’re talking, I’m guessing, are you what age range or what? How old are you now? I’m just kidding. Well, Rod (4m 16s): I’m 71 now. Yeah. And I consider myself, I can still get around the river really well. Yeah. So I guess all the years of practice. Dave (4m 26s): That’s right. That’s seventies, the new 60 or whatever they say. Right. Or the new 50. I mean, I think there’s, I was just talking, I mean it’s, it’s all about how well you take care of yourself, right? Rod (4m 34s): Yeah. Dave, when you spend your lifetime outdoors, you know, I think it’s, it definitely pays off in later years. Dave (4m 42s): Yeah, definitely. So basically, like you said, 50 years, I mean 50, 60 years of 50. So what if you take that back, let’s just say go, you know, let’s say take it back 50, 60 years, you’re looking at, I mean, kind of the, the, the seventies, right? Sixties, seventies. When was the, what was that like? So Lee Wolf talk about that real quick. When was the times he was there and then when were you, when did you get started? Rod (5m 4s): Well, I, when Lee Wolf came, of course it was in 41, his first trip to Portland Creek. Okay. And he owned the camps up till 54, 19 54. And then they were taken over by Great Lakes Carbon Company and eventually they sold it to Sperry ran company. So the Sperry ran company would be in my day and Lee Wolfe was still come to fish. He had a, a small log cabin, so he was still come back to fish for many summers after that. So I did meet just a few years ago, his son Alan, and he was there at the river doing a, as I told you before, they were doing a documentary on his dad, but I never did, never did find it. Rod (5m 54s): I don’t know if it went ahead or Dave (5m 57s): Right. Rod (5m 58s): And as, as Sun Barry, I don’t know if you’ve read the book Bush Pilot Angler, it’s a memoir for that is Sun Barry wrote. So it’s an interesting book if you’re coming to Portland Creek to probably pick up and read. Okay. I give you a lot of information on the, the river on Lee Wolf and the area. Dave (6m 21s): Yeah, that’s great. No, we’ll put a link to the show notes to those books. The Bush Pilot Angler. So that’s, so that was Lee Wolf’s son Barry. So did, I guess he had a couple kids. Couple sons, Rod (6m 32s): Yes. Barry and Allen. And tho those kids basically grew up in the summertime at DE’s Harbor and they were there. Peter Ingram actually worked for him. And when I went there, when Great Lakes and Sperry Randall, he used to look after and his wife back then, I think she was 12 years old when she went to, went to work in there. It was just 70 years ago. So we used to spend a lot of time in there. They were good friends of the family. So we got the pleasure of staying there some nights in the old camps. That was Leo Wolf’s. Dave (7m 10s): Right. The old cabins. And are those cabins, the old ones have all been, those are gone now and replaced by newer cabins, right? Rod (7m 17s): Yes, Dave? Yeah. They’re all replaced. When I started fishing, all the cabins, everything was still active and the, the big cookhouse and the bunkhouse and there was a lodge, a little bar type place. And I remember going in with my dad was called the Mar Lodge, of course after the name of the fly. And it was quite the setup for back in, in the forties, you know, the fifties for sure. Dave (7m 46s): It was nice. Yeah. The forties and fifties. So they, it was a, it was kind of a class act, sort of a nice lodge back in those days. Rod (7m 53s): Yes. And there was no roads, so everything was either taken in up the upstream and a dory or things like that, you know, even fuel for the, for his, his airplane. Dave (8m 6s): Oh, right. Yeah. ’cause there were no roads. So he, yeah, he’d fly in no land on the river, just pretty much land or was there a lake? Yeah, Rod (8m 14s): Yeah. Ray had the lake and, and when I fished started fishing on my own, which was about, I think I was 13, I had a a, a whole pedal bike. So I would leave and go up and there was no roads. There was an old cod ride trail across the bog, across the, the marsh. And I would come out at the north end of the airstrip that sta at Portland Creek, and I would go down and start fishing at daylight because the clients didn’t start until eight in the morning. And so when they would show up, of course being a kid, I would back off. Rod (8m 54s): But eventually I got to know some people and, and they would let me welcome me to stay and fish and learn a lot from a lot of people. Dave (9m 3s): Right. Yeah. You, I mean, over the years definitely you’ve seen, I mean, starting from there. Right. Lee Wolf, going back to, I’m just kind of getting my bearings on the, the dates. So yeah, he was there 1941 to 1954. You were born in 19 what? Fifty five, fifty three. 53, yeah, 53. So you just basically, you were just there. I mean, the last year or two he was there. You you were actually still Yes. Yeah. You were born, so I gotcha. Rod (9m 28s): Yeah, yeah. Dave (9m 29s): Okay. And so, and then, then you get into it, it passes ownerships and, but by the, by the seventies you’re going strong. You’re out there fishing and Rod (9m 37s): Oh my goodness, long before the seventies. Yeah. Yes, for sure. We do a lot of fishing from 13, 14, 15 years old. I about 13 years old. Like I was an avid fly fisherman. And actually the next year I started tying flies. My dad bought me a little sit up very, we were in a family with money, so it was, but you know, you learn to tie flies and, and eventually you, you would come up with your own patterns and different things and there’s nothing like catching a fish on something. You create yourself, you know that. That’s Dave (10m 16s): Right. Yeah. That’s really awesome. So, so you started, right, I mean there weren’t, are there also out there like guys fishing conventional gear? Or is it mostly fly? Rod (10m 24s): Well fly? Yeah. And of course rods were the old fiberglass type rod. You had nothing, you know, probably $20 or something the rod would cost you. I remember my dad bought me one, I think it was around $17. Dave (10m 40s): Was that before, because you probably, did you start with bamboo when you first started? Rod (10m 45s): No, I had a fiberglass type rod is actually made of fiberglass. We had bamboos for trope fishing. Okay. But the salmon fishing, no. Dave (10m 55s): So by then you had fiberglass? Yeah, they had fiberglass rods by the sixties, seventies. Yeah. What weight was that Rod? Wait, was that first rod? Rod (11m 2s): Well, I have no idea. I think it, if I recall from memory, it was a a seven weight. Yeah. Because a lot of our fishing was also included a small tributary that runs into Portland Creek. It would take about an hour to walk across the marsh to get into one of the pools. And it was good for kids. And, you know, you, you were just learning to cast and you were learning to present the fly. You know, it was learning all around and you were allowed, first it was eight fish a day. Dave (11m 37s): Hmm. Rod (11m 37s): And then it was down to four fish a day. So Dave (11m 40s): You could keep eight fish a day. Rod (11m 42s): Yes. Unbelievable. Right. But my dad told me back in his day when, when I started fishing, you, you’d rarely see what we call a gr well we call a grass something that’s like under the measurements of about oh, 24 and threequarter inches. I think the regulation is now if you want to retain a fish. And he said you would rarely catch anything under eight pounds like that. Right. They were all large fish. Portland Creek was known for a lot of large fish. Dave (12m 14s): Okay. Large fish. So yes. What would be a, a large fish? Rod (12m 18s): Well, the largest were quarter that is caught by a guy. 40 pounds. Dave (12m 24s): 40 pounds. Wow. Rod (12m 25s): And the same day there was a 35 pound pounder caught. So my memory as a kid was George Carson and Lauren Kaiser, which were two fishermen from Prince Edward Island. We went in one morning and there was two fish on the grass by the cookhouse. And Peter said one was 28 and a half and the other was just over 26. And so that’s burnt in my memory. I saw that for years. Dave (12m 53s): Yeah. Wow. And what is a, a typical fish, you know, nowadays what would be a, a big fish? Are you seeing some of the Oh Rod (13m 2s): Yeah. Oh, you can catch like a fish 20 pounds still and 25 pounds. Like last year we had quite a few, like 10 to 15 pound fish in the river. Dave (13m 14s): Yep. Right. Which is a, when you compare it again, I’m always making the comparison to steelhead. 10 15 pound steelhead is a nice fish. Yes. If you get in at 20, you’re in like a, you’re getting up to trophy, you know, field like trophy range. Right. Anything over 20. So there’s still a chance that you could get a fish over 20 out there. Rod (13m 29s): Oh, just my friend Jason had one last year that size and after the fishermen left, it was in August. I was fishing and probably one of the largest fish I’ve opened in years. Probably 7, 8, 9 years was last year. And I’m thinking it was 25 at least. Yeah, of course you didn’t, you didn’t bring, you brought the fish in to where you just busted off. Right, right. You just get the fun out of it. If you want a photo, of course the clients who come, that’s not a problem, Dave. Yeah. Dave (13m 59s): You can get some picks. Rod (14m 0s): Just keep the fish in mind when you’re doing that. Dave (14m 2s): Yeah, that’s right. Keep ’em wet. We don’t have to necessarily pull water very far. Okay. And so that’s good. We’re gonna have some potentially some big fish out there. What is the, maybe let’s just jump into a little bit on the fishing itself. You mentioned a fly. What was the fly, you mentioned the mar mar. How do you spell that? The first fly you mentioned a few minutes ago. Rod (14m 21s): Mar Lodge. M-A-R-L-O-D-G-E is the second word. Dave (14m 26s): Okay. Mar Lodge. Okay. That’s Rod (14m 28s): A traditional fly from years and years ago. It’s been around for, for a lifetime. Dave (14m 35s): Okay. Rod (14m 35s): That’s a good fly. Dave (14m 36s): Yeah, that’s a I see it now. Yeah. That’s, to me, looks like that’s an Atlantic salmon fly, you know what I mean? When you think always the, it takes, it’s not just a couple materials. This is a, a fully detailed fly that’s not easy to tie up. Rod (14m 48s): Oh. A fully dressed jock Scott is, you know, is probably most difficult to tie. But the mar lodges all the, all the fully dressed flies that used to be a lot of the, the fishermen used to bring were English tide flies, you know, by the Ardi brothers. Then Ardi used to have the, Dave (15m 8s): Yeah, so there’s, so there really on the flies. And this is good because I know Steve had some questions about flies and he was asking what would be the best, you know, flies to tie up or bring. So what would be those selection, you know, it sounds like you can get some of the really highly dressed ones, but do also some of the more sparse or flies work. Talk about that. What would be, if we had a, a few flies to tie up for this, what would you recommend? Rod (15m 31s): Yes, I, I’m not sure I’d take the time, unless you are good at tying a fully dressed fly. It’s really not required. Dave (15m 41s): Okay. Rod (15m 42s): In order to catch Atlantic salmon. So I’m sitting here at my desk now, fly to eye and I’m looking at flies from a number 12 right up to a number four. And none are fully dressed. So that would be, you know, you can use feathers, wing, hair wing, whatever you want. Mix it up. Dave (16m 5s): Okay. Do you do both on the wings, is it usually hair or feather or do you mix it up in the wing? Rod (16m 11s): No, I just, either one or the other. And Crystal Flash has been very popular with me for, oh my goodness, I met this guy again, a fisherman from someplace and he gave me some crystal flash and I, I’m sure you’re familiar with that. Dave (16m 29s): Yeah, yeah. I love crystal flash. Rod (16m 31s): Yeah, well that’s become very popular in Atlantic salmon flies and different colors. Of course the pearl seems to work really well. So you know, like, like I told Lee, try to mix it up. Everybody’s carrying a original pattern. Blue charm. Dave (16m 52s): Yeah, blue charm. Is that the most common pattern you would see? Is that what Everybody has the blue charm. Rod (16m 56s): That fly’s been around for years, Dave. And it performs awesome. But change it up, change it up a bit, put some crystal flash in it, put some jungle cock eyes on it, mix some crystal flash in the throat. Yeah. And go with different sizes. Go from a number 12 up to a number four and you can tie the number four back, like you would tie say a low water, it doesn’t have to be spurse, but tie it back away from the tip of the oak. You know the point. And the undertaker is probably another Oh yeah. Right up there with the Dave (17m 33s): Undertaker Rod (17m 35s): And experiment with different colors of green in your bought, there’s a green and a red. So I like the chart just for your listeners. It was, they was probably gonna tie their fallen flies if they come. Dave (17m 52s): Oh yeah. I guess we’re talking kind of wet flies, right? So the undertakers, Rod (17m 55s): We’re talking wet flies now. Yeah, Dave (17m 57s): Wet flies. So there’s a, the undertakers another fly. It looks like the undertaker, a few of these, the blue charm, they have a little bit of a, a butt, a green butt, a tu. But is that, is that pretty common? On, on a lot of flies. Rod (18m 11s): The undertaker is very common. It’s an, it’s a, a must. The blue charm uses a golden yellow. And again, you can use different yellows and the blue charm also. Now that was a traditional, so now there’s one tied with a red bot that works really well. Everything is the same except it’s got a red bot and mix the wing up, use a black wing hair feathers and some white wing hair. Yep. So just for your listeners, you know, don’t just don’t go with the something normal if you use your, use your own creation. Dave (18m 50s): Yeah, it all kind of works. What is the, what are your favorite, if you had to say a couple of colors or combos on a fly, if you had to just pick two and make something up? Rod (18m 59s): I think the red and the green is very good. My granddaughter, it was a durris and fly tying. So back a few years ago she got me to tie a fly as per instructions. So I called it the Victoria, her name. So that thing’s got a silver pot and then a oval. And then it’s got a, a bright pink one third and a black two third body with ovo tensile and a very bright pink hackle throat on it. Dave (19m 34s): Oh wow. Bright pink. Rod (19m 35s): Yeah. I’m telling you Dave, it works really well. Amazing. There you Dave (19m 39s): Go pink, you know, up in Alaska they say pink is the only color you need for a fly. That’s a, I know the different side of the, of the country or of the North America, but pink is a good color fish like it. Rod (19m 51s): Well that was my first experience with pink and it just, just, she saw that in my, in my fly tying gear and I had never used it. And I had a Steve brunt, he was, he used to work with SportsNet in fishing and we tried a few flies and he, I said, I want you to try this one. And he got a 12 pounder or so it was, and then I told him the story. So create your own, if you can come up with something, that’ll probably work. Dave (20m 19s): Yeah. Good. Okay. And so, and you mentioned the size of fours versus 12. When, when would you out there be using a four versus a 12 or anything in between? Rod (20m 28s): For me, just, I’m speaking personally, it would be water, river conditions and the wind. Sometimes we get winds like up to 30 miles an hour coming upstream and that creates waves on the river. So it makes for really good fishing, believe it or not. And I would probably use a number four or if the water’s way up and we have to fish from boat or you can barely, you know, reach the point you want with your waders. That would probably go with the number four. But I was still trying number 12 because for some reason those small flies work well. Dave (21m 14s): Yeah, Rod (21m 15s): I had a fish that was, we just measured roughly probably with a tape that was 18 pounds and we never took it from the water. And that was on a number 10 white doctor. Dave (21m 28s): White doctor. Rod (21m 29s): Yeah. And that was on a four pound tis liter. Dave (21m 32s): No kidding. What’s the secret to landing a, a 18 pound or a big fish like that on, you know, four pound test and then in like size 10, Rod (21m 42s): Let your rod do the work. You have to use your rod hop in the here. So you get the flex of the rod, which takes the shock load away from your, from your four pound test or your six pound test liter. If you got your rod straight down, you know yourself and that thing decides to run and your reel snags in your clothing or in your fingers, which happened last year on a really large fish to one of my, my clients I was guiding and he busted them off and that was eight pound test. And that fish ran for, we were getting close 250 yards backing and he was running low online. Rod (22m 23s): So what, Dave (22m 24s): You lost him? Yeah, Rod (22m 26s): He lost it. Dave (22m 26s): How many fish are you getting out there that you are, you know, what percentage of fish are you losing? You hook into a fish, you got it on, it’s going, running on you. How many of those do you lose? Rod (22m 37s): Oh, if the water conditions are way up and you can’t run down river chase that fish like that. That’s what happened last year. I said to him, we need to get as shore, we need to get in where we can chase this fish. But after it was all over, he said, rod, I didn’t realize what you had said. And, and you know, yourself getting out of a river takes a little bit of time. Yeah. You just can’t run. You’re waiting slowly around boulders and things like that. So you, you need to, if you’re gonna make that decision, if it’s a big fish, get the hell in and so you’re on the shoreline and you can at least chase ’em and save yourself. Rod (23m 22s): And there’s lots of boulders that’s showing downstream. And that’s where this fish went of course Dave (23m 28s): To the boulders. Rod (23m 29s): Yeah. Dave (23m 30s): Oh man. And you never know, right? Like any of the fish, do you have on, do you know right away when you hook a fish, can you tell okay, that’s a a 10 pounder or that’s a 20 pounder? Rod (23m 40s): Generally it can, because you’re going to be surface fishing when that fly is coming across, making that little v ripple across the water. So it’s going to be a visual of the fish. And a smaller fish makes a, a very small commotion on, on the surface with a large fish, there’s probably a boil of two tree feet. Wow. And so, and even if you don’t see ’em, if it’s windy and you only see briefly, you can pretty well tell from the weight on your rod. At least I can over years of fishing and you know, then if it’s a large fish or not. Dave (24m 17s): Yeah. So you’ll know. And, and and are you saying, is this with a wet fly? You’ll see, would you’re fishing a wet fly, you’ll see the boil? Or or are you saying with when it’s on the surface with like a dry Rod (24m 28s): Yes, I’m sorry, I should specify that would be with a wet fly using the Portland or the ING hitch. Dave (24m 35s): Oh right, yeah. The Portland. Yeah, that’s, we should talk about that. The, we talked about that last time. But the Portland hitch, yeah, we should describe that because that is a different thing. This is not, you know, typically like steelhead, you could use a wet fly down in the surface and then you could use a dry fly too with a hitch type hitch pattern. But yeah, let’s describe that for those people that are new and didn’t hear that first episode. What is the famous Portland hitch? Describe that. Rod (24m 58s): It’s an horan half itch that, and remember I told you there’s no H in when we pronounce it. Dave (25m 6s): Yeah, no Rod (25m 7s): H but so any of the listeners, that’s what I’m talking about. But it’s a a half hitch that goes right near the eye of the fly. So you don’t wanna be up on your feathers, you don’t wanna be up on your thread. You wanna be right at the eye where, where it turns starts to turn up. And this is whi flies I’m talking about? Yeah. And I use one only, they used to use two, but we’ll probably discuss this a little further about the, the cat gut. So, and it’s, when it comes off of the fly it’s com underneath, let’s say near the throat, that’s where the leaders will come down. Rod (25m 52s): Yep. Of course the stories, if you’re fishing the left side and my dad told me that for years, you use it on this side, if you’re fishing the right side of the river, you put your, put it on the other side of the fly. Dave (26m 7s): Okay. Rod (26m 8s): Not true. Dave (26m 8s): Oh, not true. Rod (26m 9s): No, you can and you still catch fish, but you don’t need to. Dave (26m 14s): Okay. So your dad wasn’t right about everything on the fishing end? Rod (26m 18s): No. Yeah, no. And I’m not right about everything, but over the years I’ve proven that it just underneath the fly needs to be coming to get that fly. And it makes an, if the water’s quiet, you can see a nice v on the surface coming away from that. I, as it protrudes above the water and when it’s coming like that, they’ve, there’s times when your cast, of course if you’re, if you’re using the surface fishing, like I’m talking about, you have to pay attention all the time because you may get a fish that barely break the surface that just comes underneath the fly. Rod (27m 2s): Oh wow. But you can see some movement in the water. Yep. You know, it, it still disturbs the surface or you see a silver flash when he makes a turn to go away. Yeah. So that of course gives you a lot of valuable information. It tells you where the fish is at, right? Yep. And it tells you, it shows you he’s interested in your fly. So you, you keep the same length of line and you go for him again. Oh yeah. Because these fish stay in when they get in their lie, they may be there for, depends on water conditions and things like that. They maybe for a day they may be deer. I’ve seen fish deer for a week, the same big fish just rising. Rod (27m 47s): So using this, you have to, you have to pay attention all the time because it seems for some reason, and this has happened many times to me, I look away or talk to my buddy and I look back or I feel this tug on my line. Sometimes they’ll look themselves, but you need to sit the hook as soon as you see that fish, they’re so fast, oh, you need to sit your, come back gently with your rod so that you can sit that hook because you may be in a, a area that’s bone or whatever, you know. Dave (28m 21s): Yeah. What is that hook? So it’s going down, it’s swinging down. What does the hook set look like? Rod (28m 26s): Just a natural foot wall back from your elbow back. Dave (28m 30s): Yep. Is it kinda like you’re, I heard somebody say it’s, well this is for trout fishing, but he said do it, set the hook like you’re answering your phone. Is it, is it like that? Rod (28m 39s): Yes, you need to give it not enough to bust your leader, but you know, it’s, it’s something that comes natural. Now if I see any movement near my fly, it’s just a natural reaction and it doesn’t have to be, you know, a fool over the, over the shoulders thing. Right. It just needs to come back maybe a foot or so, you know. Dave (29m 0s): Yeah, gotcha. Just enough. And what is the, the fit, so that doing the Portland hitch and is the Portland hitch versus the riffle hitch, I guess that’s a similar knot? Or is it kind of the same thing? It’s the same. Rod (29m 10s): Okay. Dave (29m 10s): So then that’s what it is. So the Portland hitch is the, it’s essentially, you know, you tie your, your fly on and then you basically do two kind of overhand knots. Right. And, and put those on the hook. Rod (29m 20s): That’s, I I just do the one. Oh, Dave (29m 22s): You just do one. Okay. Rod (29m 23s): But if you wanna do two, that’s not a problem. Dave (29m 25s): Okay. And then what is that fly doing versus say just a regular swinging a wet fly without the riffle hitch? And then when would you do it? Or are you pretty much doing that all the time? Rod (29m 35s): I do it a hundred percent all the time. Dave (29m 38s): Okay. A hundred percent. So that’s it. So we’re gonna be fishing the riffle hitch all the time. Okay. This is cool. Rod (29m 42s): Yes. Dave (29m 42s): And what is it doing? Is it just giving it a little more life? Do, do you have any idea, like why, what’s it doing differently than just a wetly would be doing in the water? Rod (29m 51s): Well, your wetly would without that would be below the surface and with the hitch on it, it just makes that, like I told you, that v coming across just you picture, if you can picture eye, actually just the eye of the fly, which would be the ideal way if you can get it. Sometimes certain flies don’t swim the same, if that makes sense. Right. And I’ve actually taken flies away from my line because they just don’t suit me the way they, they’re coming across the water and well, if it’s done properly, you’ll get that v And a lot of our fishermen we have had have difficult seeing that fly. Rod (30m 34s): And that’s not a problem if you have, because you know where your casting lines at and you know, you’ve got 12 or 15 feet of liter. So you, you still follow the general orientation of that fly as it comes across. And you would definitely see the fish when he breaks the water. Yep. So that’s the difference. Like, Lee asked me, could you use a, a sinking tip or a sinking? I said, yes you can. Yeah. We have tried that with very little success. Hmm. So I wouldn’t recommend that. I’d recommend a floating line. That’s all we use. Dave (31m 12s): Floating line and, and a a seven weight or eight weight. What’s your weight rod? Rod (31m 16s): 9 0 9. Dave (31m 17s): That’s right. Yeah. Rod (31m 18s): I wouldn’t go any less than a than a eight just because of wind conditions and line weight. And the line is just as important as the rod. We had a a, a client last year. Great guy. What a chap. And he was having trouble casting. Oh he had salmon fish lots, believe it or not, on smaller rivers. So you’re casting that doesn’t need to be as precise if you’re fishing a smaller rough water river and the Portland Creek is more quiet, vigor, larger, you get wind conditions. So after the first day I said, Brian, you need to get a line for your rod. Rod (32m 1s): So gave him my, my reel with the line on his rod and he used it. And so we, Ryan picked up a line in the, in the town corner brook, which is about two hours south of us. And the difference was unbelievable. Dave (32m 19s): With a new line. Rod (32m 20s): Yes. With the new line. I’m an airflow guy, myself and Jason, who was a, a really good fisherman as well and his son Colby. We thought from, from a kid four years old, we use the airflow, we find that they, they really work well in the wind. Yeah. Dave (32m 38s): So you just get an airflow, like a nine weight, Rod (32m 40s): I use a 40 plus, I don’t know if that one’s still available and, and a nine weight forward floating line. Yep. And I can fish any conditions at Portland Creek or any other river. I fish a lot of rivers with Labrador and Newfoundland and, and I’ve never had a problem with it. And I use a a nine weight rod and I usually carry a number, a nine or 10 weight. I usually step up one above the rod weight. ’cause the rods I’m used to, it doesn’t seem like Yeah, a nine weight rod that a nine weight line would load it properly for me. Dave (33m 20s): No, no. We’ve had that conversation a lot on here from expert casting instructors. And what they’ve said is that the fly rod industry basically over our lifetimes has gotten faster and faster and faster. So the rods are way stiffer, way faster than they used to be. And the problem is, is that the line, there’s this weird thing right. Where it just doesn’t match. So they, I think over lining is a good thing to go. So if you got a nine weight, throw a 10 on or maybe so true something larger. Yeah. Rod (33m 46s): So true Dave, because back, oh, this guy from New York, I bought a rod from, and it was the orifice powerhouse on goodness that’s back in the, oh my god. Dave (33m 60s): Eighties Rod (34m 0s): Mr. Clemons back in the seventies. Yeah. Early seventies. And so he used to bring like half dozen rods and so I had the opportunity to try five different rods and I oak five fish on each rod. So I bought the powerhouse and it was a eight nine weight. And so I busted the rod somewhere along the line, sent it back and they sent me a warranty. It was a 25 year warrant having used another rod, a newer rod that summer. I could not get back to using that orifice powerhouse. It was just too, it wouldn’t load like the line properly. Rod (34m 43s): And that’s the difference. Just like you’ve spoken. Dave (34m 45s): Yeah. Too stiff. That’s it. So basically from coming up, if you got a a nine weight in the closet, you know, which I have a few that haven’t used as much, you just go pick up an airflow, wait forward, you know, probably a 10 might even be the line. Right. Especially if it’s a faster Yeah. Although I do have an old rod. That’s an interesting thing. I do have a couple old rods I’m thinking about bringing, although they’re two pieces, so I’m not, I’m not sure I wanna travel those across the country. Rod (35m 10s): Oh, I know what the traveler. Dave (35m 11s): Yeah. But, but good. Okay, so we got the line. So it’s just the airflow, your typical nine or 10 weight and then the, let’s go. Not Rod (35m 19s): A floating line. Dave (35m 19s): What’s that? Rod (35m 21s): Floating line? Yeah, Dave (35m 22s): Floating. So just, yep, just floating line. Yep. So you don’t need at all to bring a sink tip at all? Rod (35m 28s): No. Dave (35m 29s): So what happens if the conditions get a little bit on the, you know, murky things get higher and things like that. Fish are still potentially, you’re still fishing the dry line? Rod (35m 38s): I’ve seen it once in all the years I’ve been fishing and that was about three, four years ago and that lasted for a day. Dave (35m 46s): Okay. So it doesn’t get real, you guys don’t get a lot of like blown out river conditions too often? No. Rod (35m 51s): Okay. One year, one summer for one day and oh, it’s 50, 60 years. 65 years. Dave (36m 2s): Oh, okay. So that’s something that likely won’t happen then. The the biggest thing is just, yeah. When, what numbers, when are the fish arriving? When you know, and, and in the numbers. And that’s why I think we’re going in that late June period is when we’re gonna be there. Obviously there’s, I’m not sure the availability, but that’ll be one time we’re gonna be there. And, and I think I wanna paint that picture, like what’s that gonna look like? And we’ve had a few questions on leaders. We’ve talked about flies, talk about your leader setup. How do you build a leader? ’cause we’ve had some questions. One of ’em was about like the, you know, we use like Maxima for a lot of steelhead leader setups. And I think one of the questions was, but leader material, you know, chameleon versus like ultra green versus fluorocarbon. Dave (36m 44s): Do you have a, a preference or what, maybe just talk about your setup for your leader. Rod (36m 49s): Yeah. Chameleon all the way. Dave (36m 51s): Is that what you use? Yes. You use chameleon just for kind of everything, your whole setup? Rod (36m 55s): Yes. I have used the, oh my goodness, what’s the other one that, that Maxon makes? Dave (37m 1s): Oh, just the, I mean you have ultra green, I’m not sure of all the different types they have, but if you’ve got the ultra green, some other stuff. Rod (37m 8s): Oh yeah, well the Maxima is what I prefer. Dave (37m 11s): Yeah. So you use maximum and then what is your, are you building your liter or maybe talk about what it goes like the size from your butt end down to the tip. You already mentioned you use like down to four pound. Do you build it or can you just buy a, a full liter? Rod (37m 24s): It doesn’t matter what I’m using. If it’s eight, six, or four, I generally start with a 12 or 15. So that’s about eight feet, nine feet. And then whatever I want to use for a tibit, I just use the surgeon’s knot, which I, so you’re familiar with? Yep. And I join right there. If it’s gonna be a eight or if it’s gonna be a six, I join it right there and put another six feet on. I usually, it generally use a, a weather dependent Dave. It is. If it’s 30 mile an hour winds, I’m not gonna put suggest to you to put a 15 foot liter on unless I see that you can cast and straighten that line out. Rod (38m 10s): That leader 15 feet gotta go straight out just as well as you’re casting line. Right. That’s another big issue we have is fishermen getting that line straight so it starts fishing right away. I’ve had the fly touch the water and within six inches the salmon is hit that fly. Oh wow. So if you miss that, if you’re throwing out your 15 or 12 foot leader and you’ve got five or six feet that’s blowing back, then you’ve got half your swing that’s not fishing. And believe it or not, presentation with the salmon in my opinion is big. Rod (38m 51s): It means a lot. Right. Dave (38m 52s): So you’re not gonna make a cast out there and then do a big mend necessarily and have time. You, you wanna make your cast and you want to have it fishing as soon as it touches the water. Rod (39m 1s): A hundred percent. I rarely, rarely mend the line. But that’s not to say that you shouldn’t mend the line because in in certain conditions at certain times you have to mend it to get that swing properly. Dave (39m 16s): Yeah. Okay. And, and what is a typical, you know, I guess probably depends on the run, but what’s a typical average like length of cast? Rod (39m 25s): Well, let me get back first to the liter first. Yeah. So if I’m going down to a four, then my butt would be probably no bigger than a eight because I don’t wanna tie in such a small liter onto a 15 pound or 12 pound test. I see. If that makes sense. Dave (39m 44s): Yeah. So you’re not doing a, like a, a necessarily a starting really fat from the fly line then going down to like, you know, whatever, 30 to 20 to 15 to 10, that sort of thing. You’re just basically getting two lengths if it’s, if you start with 12, you’re tying at 12. Are you doing like a loop knot onto your fly line or how are you doing the, the leader to the fly line? Rod (40m 4s): I just use the nail knot, but most casting lines now or got a loop. So it’s a very simple, yeah. Dave (40m 10s): Yeah. I think a lot of people, I still like to do the nail knot too. I feel like the loop is just, I think people still like to cut the loops off sometimes. Right. I don’t know, I, I kinda like the nail knot too. Maybe that’s an old school thing. Rod (40m 21s): It’s a bit more difficult to tie, but yeah, I’m a nail knot guy. Dave (40m 26s): Yeah, nail knot. Okay, so you’ll tie the 12 pound butt, right? Right. You use that right and use it nail not right to your fly line. Rod (40m 33s): Yeah. Dave (40m 33s): And then you’ll go down, you’ll have eight feet of that and then you’ll have six feet with the surgeons down to your six pound. Rod (40m 38s): I have about, yeah, eight feet and then I’ll go another six or eight feet of, of whatever tip I’m using. You don’t need to have it that long. You can go shorter. So if I see and I’m guiding somebody you’re having trouble with it, then I just shorten it Dave (40m 54s): Up. And what would be the shortest you would go? Rod (40m 58s): I would go down sometimes back in the days of my dad or lint, that’s what they would use. Dave (41m 5s): Yeah. So nine, nine feet, Rod (41m 7s): Nine foot and the least number of joins for your tbit I find makes a difference If the water is, like I said, quiet because all these knots tend to make a V as they come across the surface. So you wanna get away from that. And I know people buy, you know, liters and they’ve got five, six different joins and their tidbits and yeah. Stay away Dave (41m 37s): From that. It’s too much. Okay. So Rod (41m 38s): Just if it’s, if it’s, if you got the 30 mile hour winds, hey the salmon, they don’t appear to be liter shy and you don’t see it Dave (41m 47s): If they have 30. So if it’s blowing hard, you want to just drop down to the shorter, thicker Yes. And just get it out there because the fish aren’t gonna be able to see what the, you know, whatever waves or wind blowing, they’re not gonna be as shy. Right, Rod (42m 1s): Exactly. And Dave, the lent of cast I’ve caught fish from, well let’s say I got a 15 foot liter and I got 10 feet or list a casting loin and just toss the fly out and let it swing ball. You need to start fishing in close as close as possible. Yeah. To as work your way out slowly. And we’ll talk about that, like whatever you can cast generally with a single added rod, of course you don’t wanna interfere with a fisherman that’s below you. So that restructure casts sometimes. And that’s exactly what I do. I cast 4, 5, 6 times into one the same lent. Rod (42m 42s): And then I move out approximately one to two foot feet and do the same thing. And I go, oh, just far to my limit. Then I’ll come back and I’ll do that three or four times and then I’ll switch up to a different fly and go through the same process again. Dave (42m 59s): Yeah. Okay. So, so basically you find a run that, you know produces, you’ll start in in, in close whatever, you know, 20 feet or something as close as you can depending on the run. Are they were, are they holding behind? You know, like what is the water they’re holding in? Is, are they behind boulders? Are they in next to the bank? Yes. All over the place. Yes, Rod (43m 20s): Behind the boulders. Yeah. You’re a hundred percent right. They’ve been doing that for the 60 years. I’ve been on the river the same place. Our river rarely changes the ice conditions going out. Dave (43m 33s): Right. So you know the run, so when you come up there this year, you’re gonna be going, we’re gonna be going to runs that you’ve caught fish for the same run for every year. Rod (43m 42s): Oh my goodness. Yes. Dave (43m 44s): Yeah. That’s really, that’s awesome. Yeah. And so that’s cool to hear because I mean some rivers do, like if you talk about the go to the Olympic peninsula, you know, up in, you know, Washington or some of these areas, I mean there’s a lot of changes. The whole channel can migrate across the flood plain. Yeah. But that’s not the case here. Rod (44m 1s): No, that’s true. Some rivers change drastically and, but Portland Creek, no, it’s, it’s, you fish the same area. I remember one boulder last year the, that changed on the pool just below the, the main, the home pool. And other than that, there’s no changes in the river. Dave (44m 23s): No change. That’s great. Okay. So we’re gonna be, and then, and that’s the other cool thing is that some of these runs are gonna be the Lee Wolf. Do you know some of those runs were Lee actually fished back in the forties and fifties. Rod (44m 33s): Oh goodness yes. Dave (44m 34s): Yeah. And we gonna be fishing some of those. Rod (44m 37s): Yes, for sure. Dave (44m 38s): Yeah, that’d be pretty cool. We were talking to, we’re gonna have a, a photographer likely on the trip and he was talking about setting up a scene where I would come and fly in on a similar float plane and land. It should just like Lee Wolf did. Is that, are you seeing any float planes flying in there the like still to this day? Rod (44m 56s): Oh yeah. A friend of mine is a pilot. They, they have a hunting lodges on the mountains, so they’ve got a two or three float planes. The beaver, you know, the Avalon and if you want to arrange that, I’d say that’s not a problem. Dave (45m 13s): Okay. And did he, did he land right there? Like where was he landing? Do you land in the river or is it like a lake or how, how does that work? Rod (45m 19s): It’s a lake. Our main pool, which you’ll probably be fishing most was right where it leaves the lake. The lake is approximately seven miles long and probably three, four miles wide. Mm Wow. And so he would land right? Well depending on the wind conditions, he may come up the river Yeah. And land just into the, with the lake starts and he would leave the plane. They had a, they had built over the years some cribbing and boulders and they, it was amazing the work they had done to just protection for the plane and, and the boats they had there. Rod (46m 2s): So you can land Right exactly where he came. So Dave (46m 5s): There you go. So that is possible. Okay. So we might be working on some of that and then, and then once we get there we’ll be fishing these runs. So back to the run. So we, you’re in the run, you start out short and you’re kind of systematic. So you, you basically start out short and then you don’t necessarily walk, you’re not like casting and stepping down. You’re first casting like a foot or two each time to get further out. Is that how it works? Rod (46m 27s): Okay, that’s a question. Yes. A lot of, I understand like if you are probably still lead fishing, you have a cast or two and then you make a step or so Dave (46m 36s): Yeah, working down. Rod (46m 37s): Okay, Charlie is coming back again this year. Charlie’s been with us. This will be the third year and I’ve had the pleasure of guiding him. Great guy. And if I put him somewhere and if I put you somewhere, it’s somewhere where I know this fish gonna be present and if I put him to eight o’clock in the morning and I don’t ask him to move, he would stay at here until 12. Dave (47m 4s): Oh right. Really The same spot. Rod (47m 7s): He is unbelievable. Oh my gosh. And he catch his fist, you know, like if I can describe the pool, the main pool, it probably can carry 10 fishermen at least. Wow. Both sides of the river. And the fish lie right from the bottle of the pool right to where it goes in the lake. And you may be fishing if I put you in the area, of course this is fish dependent. There may be 1215 fish lying right there where you’re fishing in that area that you can reach with different lake casts. So you know you’ve got a good selection of fish to try to entice one to come for your fly. Dave (47m 50s): Right. And this is right below, this is fish that are migrating up and they’re right below the lake just before getting into the lake. Rod (47m 57s): Yes. Now we do have resident. Dave (47m 59s): Yeah. Is there a lake from the lake? And then were they, are they continue going up into the lake or is this the kind of the end of the line for ’em? Rod (48m 7s): No, no, they can go up about 14 miles. We’ve got two lakes, the outside one and then we’ve got a, a short run between the, what’s called the enter lake. And of course we call them ponds. Yeah. But that’s a good place for fishing. We’ve got two feeders tributaries that come in and they go up these rivers. One does just go up a short distance because of a, a falls that they can’t, can’t jump. But the other one, they can go up like quite a few miles and they go on up the lake to about 14 miles and there’s another river that we can fish through and we do fish take the fishermen up by boat. Dave (48m 55s): Mm. Okay. So you do, so you take a like a, a jet boat up river? Rod (48m 59s): No, it’s a, it’s a 20 foot fiberglass boat with a 90 horse. Flowers can take four fishermen and two guides. Gotcha. Wow. And that’s the trip you have to make if you come. Dave (49m 11s): Oh really? Okay. So this is a Yeah, up to the upper river. Rod (49m 14s): Yes. I remember a guy last year, Brian, he said, we took them up and he said, had I closed my highs before we left unopened. I swear I was in Norway. Dave (49m 27s): Right. Rod (49m 28s): It was just the mountains are right there, right above Dave (49m 30s): You. Oh, so you got the mountains right here. So where the backdrop in this place is not only the Portland Creek but mountains around us. Rod (49m 39s): Yes. Dave (49m 39s): Yeah. Wow. Rod (49m 41s): You wanna enjoy it? Dave (49m 42s): Yeah, this is gonna be, this is gonna be good. Okay, so let’s keep it back. I wanna on the fishing, ’cause I wanna make sure we get this dialed in for everybody. So we got the leader, we have the flies. I think we talked about like four flies. Maybe. Maybe throw us another, what would be one you mentioned the white. Let’s see what we have there. We had the, the white doctor. Is that one that’s what would be in your top five? Rod (50m 1s): Yeah. You should be able to search online and find all the patterns except the ones that we’ve come up, like the Victoria, you won’t find Dave (50m 10s): Oh, the Victoria. Rod (50m 11s): The Victoria. But if any people listening would like, I can send photos like I sent to Lee of the different patterns and flies that I tie and that I use and then they can tie them themselves or you can, and sometimes not, sometimes I recommend to get some local flies. Yeah. Dave (50m 37s): Where would you get those? Rod (50m 39s): That those are the, well, I, I’ve tied quite a few in the last couple years for fishermen and this year Charlie’s requested a couple dozen, but you know, if you are, if you feel comfortable with what you’ve got, then don’t worry about it. Just tie your own, you know, it’s not, but I still recommend that you, that you, you buy some local flies and if, if so your intentions to do that, then you need to let myself preferably myself know. And either I will tied him my good friend Jason, who was an awesome fly tire or his son Colby. Dave (51m 21s): Oh, perfect. So anybody that’s coming up, they should check in with you and we can get some custom local flies tied. That would be the way to do it. Rod (51m 30s): If I went your way steel aid fishing, I would definitely yeah, listen to what you said and, and get some flies that you have. That’s Dave (51m 39s): Great. Well that’s what we will we’ll do on this too. I think we’ll do the same thing. So we, we’ll, I won’t, and actually to be honest with you, I’ve tied a lot of flies, but I don’t really tie too many flies these days, so I prefer to, to buy ’em anyways from the local. So this is good. So we’ll, we’ll get some of those flies. We have the top, those five that we talked about, we talked about the leaders. That’s pretty basic, the knot. Are you doing a, what’s your knot? You’re tying on your, your fly with, is that just a typical fishing knot or what, what do you use in there? You got the, what’s it called, the, the Portland hitch. But that’s after you tie your regular knot on, right? Rod (52m 12s): That’s after. Yeah, that’s right. Dave (52m 14s): So just, I’m trying to think what is the normal knot? No, Rod (52m 16s): Nothing special. Dave (52m 17s): Nothing special. Just your regular overhand you don’t have to do. Yeah. You’re not doing a loop knot or anything like that? Rod (52m 22s): No. Just four or five turns around and go back through once and of course you can use, there’s different, different ones you use. Dave (52m 29s): Yeah. The clinch knot is the typical right? That’s the, the Rod (52m 32s): Yeah, Dave (52m 32s): Yeah. Clinch knot Rod (52m 34s): And the turtle knot. A lot of people use that and different, so whatever. It works. Yeah, Dave (52m 39s): You just wanna make sure, obviously you’ve got, if you get a 20 pound fish on here, you wanna make sure your knots are good. Well, any, any tips there to make sure you have good knots that aren’t gonna slip or break on you? Rod (52m 51s): Well, once it’s tied, usually if there’s a loop in your vest, you know, for your clippers, just hook it on that and pull gently and make sure. Yeah. Yep. Dave (53m 2s): Yeah, I do that every time. What about on the hook itself, do you find, I mean the old school sometimes you see these atlantic salmon patterns that have the double hook on, you know, it’s like one hook but has two. Do you guys do that at all or or is it all single hooks Rod (53m 14s): Not allowed now? Dave (53m 15s): Oh, you can’t do it. Okay. Rod (53m 17s): No. Dave (53m 17s): Yeah. Is it barbless also? Rod (53m 20s): Yes. Yes. All barbless. Please pinch your barbs. You don’t need to buy barbless, no hooks and such, but before you come, so you’re not wasting time in the river, you know, pinching a barb or whatever, pinch a barb. I do it prior to tying. Dave (53m 35s): Okay. When you’re tying your flies up, what is the hook you’re using for your flies? Is it is like a ty style? Is it like the the up eye hook or you tying a different Rod (53m 43s): Up by all Wait flies are up by, Dave (53m 45s): Yeah, they’re all up by. Okay. Rod (53m 47s): And of course the bombers we haven’t talked about, but we probably will. But all up by, and listen, the tube flies been introduced to Portland Creek the last couple of years, so I just wanted to throw that out. So Dave (54m 2s): Tube flies are illegal to use. Rod (54m 4s): It’s been fairly successful. Something different. And it’s Calvin, you remember Calvin? Oh yeah. We talked about, yep. Yeah, well he, he was the guy who, and the tube, it’s got hold burned in it, I think underneath and the leader comes back out through and it sort of gives that two fly the same swimming ability as, as a regular fly with the Portland hitch on it. Does that make sense? Dave (54m 34s): Yeah, yeah. I’m trying to think of how that would work. Yeah, I guess I’d have to look at that to see. See that’s what, yeah. Yeah, Rod (54m 40s): That’s what he had and that’s what another fisherman came, did some, sometimes the hole would be in the side left to fly. And that was after reading, I guess as Calvin said, from the left side, the river and the right side of the river. Dave (54m 54s): Right, right. Well we, we we’re gonna definitely talk to Calvin too, so we’ll get his take on the, on the tube flies. But I guess, yeah, for you, I mean to keep it simple, just regular wet fly, just get your normal, whatever UPI hook you have, I always go back to the old, back in the day, the old must add, you know, 86 90, oh I guess partridge. Right. Also has lots of those UPI hooks. Rod (55m 15s): Oh my goodness. Like back in the, the partridge, the single WELLON zero one, that used to be my famous hook. And now the Wellon, I can’t find it anywhere. So what am I using now? Dave (55m 32s): Just whatever, not, not super critical. You just wanna kind of a, a UPI hook, some type of I Rod (55m 36s): Hook, yes. Yes. And I use standard wire and fine wire and depends on like, I like the fine wire. Well I, I use it, I use it a lot. But the standard wire is good as well. Dave (55m 51s): What about on that, you mentioned it on the, the bomber, like so we got this riffle hitch, which is obviously getting a wet fly up, so it looks a little bit different in the surface. How is a, when would you fish a bomber and is that a lot different than what we’re talking about here with the, the riffle hitch? Rod (56m 7s): So the bomber would be attached just with the lead or not and forget the Portland and nothing on that. It’s just straight, a straight tie onto the, onto the York. It will be dressed with floating depending on what kind you, you have or you use just to keep the water away from it. My preference is a dead float that cuts is more fish than if you’re dragging that, skimming that thing across the water, you can catch fish with the thing swinging across, say like a W fly sort of presentation. But your most success will be a dead float. Rod (56m 51s): It takes a bit of practice to get a, a long dead float. Yeah. Covering the water with a bomber is totally different than trying to cover the section, cover the section of the pool. You’re fishing with a wet fly. The wet fly, you’re generally casting a 45 degree across the river and it’s got that radius where arc where it comes across. And every foot or two you do the same thing with a bomber, you start again very close to yourself and you did float it down just upstream a little not to interfere with the fishermen that’s above you. Rod (57m 32s): But then you work your way out to wherever line you can and get that perfect dead float. So last year, the guy who hooked a big fish, I was teaching him, this is how you need to fish the bomber. And this is crazy, Dave, for the first cast I had, this 12 pounder came up about, I’d say eight 10 inches up the head came up and sucked in that bomber. Dave (57m 57s): Wow. Rod (57m 58s): And anyway, I just hooked the fish in time. I passed a rod because of the in between. This never kept attention, I lost the fish. But he said, holy crap, I just saw the best thing. And the water was flat calm. It was so, and the thing was only about 20 feet from us, you know? Yeah. Dave (58m 16s): It was right there. You saw the whole thing. Yeah man. So that’s the bomber. So you’re talking about the, with the riffle, with the Portland hitch, you’re casting kind of downstreaming across at a 45 working that. And then with a bomber, you’re casting more. Are you doing it upstream or how far are you casting up? Rod (58m 30s): You can cast upstream if there’s nobody above you, but as you, as the fly comes towards you, you have to strip your line. You know what I mean? Yeah. You have to strip, but you can cast like directly across from you and get a really good float. Okay. So a little, A little upstream. Yeah. Or straight across from you. And you can still after just a little practice you can get because this guy got pretty good at it after. Dave (58m 54s): Yeah. So you want kind of a dead drift. And then are you doing anything? I mean, what is the bomber? Because the bomber is a, is a really strange looking fly, right? It’s got deer hair body that’s trimmed with a hackle and then it’s got this like calf tail, right. Sticking out in the front. Like a kind of crazy, almost like a, I don’t know what it looks like, but what is the fly doing? Is it making a wake? Are you pulling on it to make a wake? Rod (59m 14s): No, zero disturbance. Dave (59m 16s): Okay. So it’s just dead drifting. And what is the fly doing? Is it just Yeah, Rod (59m 20s): I’m just looking at it. Look at one I’ve got here in front of me. So you said the calf tail is off both ends? Yep. It’s got two, one from the front and one from the back. And now they tie what’s called a dirty bomber. So this hackle that they use now, and I use some as well and they work really well, is in a cape that you would buy years ago you wouldn’t use it. And now they’re very popular. Yeah. Those hackle feathers are maybe, oh my goodness. Ah, for three quarters of an inch protruding out all around that body. Rod (1h 0m 2s): Yeah, Dave (1h 0m 3s): Right. Rod (1h 0m 4s): The body is tied well and what we use is caribou and I think you guys use a lot of deer. We don’t have deer so Oh Dave (1h 0m 11s): Right caribou. Yep. Yeah. Rod (1h 0m 13s): And fish, it don’t interfere with it. Dave (1h 0m 17s): Just let it kind of float. And then, and what happens when it, if you do cast out and then you just let it and then it slowly swings down below you and you just kinda let it swing? Rod (1h 0m 26s): Yeah, I let it swing in until it’s straight down from me. Just so it’s not to disturb the water where the fish are line. Dave (1h 0m 32s): Oh right. Okay. And then what is the difference, when would you use this bomber versus say the Portland hitch we talked about? Rod (1h 0m 40s): Okay. On a windy day, I personally and I find the fish do not like the bomber as well. It may be a flat calm day when the waters finish and quiet and you’ll find when you’re calm that we’ve got what the Fishman called good bomber water. Dave (1h 0m 56s): Gotcha. So you want a bomber Water is good. Calm a calm day. Rod (1h 1m 0s): Yes. Dave (1h 1m 1s): Yeah. I see. Are you guys, you know, the cool thing is about the single hand, I, I, I love this because I grew up steelhead fishing with the single hand rod. You know, we were kind of, my dad was like anti spay rods, you know, for, even though they’re coveted, they’re getting popular out here. We never did ’em. And to this day I struggle a little bit with my space stuff, so I’m really excited ’cause we’re gonna be coming back and casting the single hand. But the, one of the challenges there, especially on our home river, is that we get a lot of wind too. And sometimes you’re trying to make a long cast, I don’t know whether that’s 60, 70 feet or something like that. And it’s not easy to do because the longer the cast, the harder people struggle with the cast I think. What, what are your tips about that? First of all, it sounds like we don’t have to cast far necessarily, but any tips on the casting? Rod (1h 1m 44s): Oh, you can cast 60, 70 feet you Dave (1h 1m 46s): Can. Okay, no problem. Rod (1h 1m 47s): If you want to, yes. And you can do that of course with a singer. And, but as far as rods go, I’m not trying to discourage people from bringing a spay rod. If that’s your favorite rod that you like, please bring it. You know, we’ve had a lot of spay rods over the last couple years. Some are really, really good. Oh my goodness. Some guys, I’m amazed by it. Like they’re casting Ben with that thing. Right. And some more. Hmm. Not so, but it’s a lot of commotion. I find if you’re not doing it properly in the area on the river where the fish are lying that you don’t wanna do. Dave (1h 2m 27s): No you don’t, you don’t want the commotion. Rod (1h 2m 29s): Yeah. It makes the fish a bit on edge, you know, they’re not comfortable with it. Dave (1h 2m 33s): We had a, and this is just for anybody listening ’cause we definitely do have lots of people that are, there’s gonna be a mix. People that are spay, they’re people that just want to get out and try Atlantic salmon, whatever. But we had an episode with Guideline, which is kind of a, a company kind of over, over in Europe. But they’ve focused on the scandy, you know, in this, in the space stuff, there’s Scandy versus Skagit. You know, the Skagit are the really big heavy fire hose type of, you know, garden hose like lines. They’re thicker, but the scan are way more thinner. They’re a little harder to cast, but they’re more like, I think the lines that you guys fish. Right. You, because you don’t want the commotion. You want those flies to naturally float and swing. So I feel like the scandy line for anybody listening, that would be a good line to come up. Maybe talk, look at that guideline episode. Dave (1h 3m 15s): We’ll put a link in the show notes that talks about those. But, but yeah, I think it, it’s a good, I think whatever you like Right. Bring up whatever rod you can cast to get it out there and, and should work. Rod (1h 3m 24s): Yes. Yes. And again, remember I, I spoke about if you’re towing with a spay rod 70 feet line, that’s fine. Again, I have to say, if you’re not interfering with a, a fisherman that’s below you, you have to, you have to present that fly. So it, the whole section, the last 15 feet of liter needs to straighten out perfectly. You know, so if you can’t do that, then shorten up and fish what you know, what you can fish. Dave (1h 3m 54s): That’s a great tip. Rod (1h 3m 55s): Presentation. Sometimes Dave makes a hell of a lot of difference in catching fish. Dave (1h 4m 0s): It does. Do you think it’s more important than the fly? The presentation? Rod (1h 4m 4s): I think the guy at the end of the rod, the, the other end from the fly is, is probably the most important thing. Yeah. Dave (1h 4m 10s): Most important. Okay. Rod (1h 4m 11s): The fly is important, but the guy who was handling the rod, the presentation, definitely Dave (1h 4m 18s): That’s it. Rod (1h 4m 19s): I mean it’s been proven like we’ve been there fishing and last year I was guiding Brian and Jason, my buddy was on the hop opposite the river side and OCH two fish. And I said, Brian, we just came from that area. He says, yeah, well Jason’s got a different fly. I said, I can tell you one thing, Jason’s fishing the same fly that you are fishing. I’ve been around him a lifetime. So I called out to Jason ask him, and he was fishing the same fly we were fishing. So the difference had to be in the presentation. Yeah. And Brian agreed. He agreed. And he worked on Ed’s success later in the week. Rod (1h 4m 60s): So yeah, Dave (1h 5m 0s): That’s it. Who are some of the people we talked to on the last episode? We had a, well we had Ryan and, and his dad. Who, who are the, the guides who are gonna be up there potentially guiding if you had some people, like is this a, a few guides or there, what, what’s that look like During a week? Rod (1h 5m 20s): It would be myself. I would be there. The whole tum. Dave (1h 5m 23s): You’ll be there. Okay, good. Rod (1h 5m 25s): And and maybe if family come by. I think last year I took two or three days off. Yep. But Colby, he’s just 20 years old. Oh, nice. As good a fisherman as on the river now is m and his dad Jason. Okay. So we get them, we get Kobe and Jason when he is available. ’cause he works in a paper mill, but he’s usually off at prime time a couple weeks. And Roger and Liz who you talked to guides as well. That’s Ryan’s dad. Oh yeah. And Gary, all the people, I’ve got no people who have not fished a river for years and a good fishermen. Rod (1h 6m 10s): Right. Dave (1h 6m 11s): We’re gonna be going to places where we know, like we said, these are places that produce year after year. It’s, these are, these are not unknown places that we’re gonna be fishing. Rod (1h 6m 20s): Oh no. And and last year we took guys at different rivers just north of us and they totally enjoyed that. We took ’em at River of Ponds, we call that inside and Bluey. And that’s another place that Lee Wolf had camp sit up back in the forties. Dave (1h 6m 39s): I gotcha. Rod (1h 6m 40s): So we took him there and we took him on the Torrent River, which is one of the most successful restocking rivers down in North America. It’s up in Hawks Bay. Okay. They had good success there. I think they oh five fish there that day. So, you know, that’s something else we can do. Dave, you know, is show you different waters. Dave (1h 7m 1s): Yeah. I wanna, I wanna check out, I think being diversifying and for sure Portland Creek obviously is big, but I think just seeing the country, you know, that that’s what these trips are amazing for. Right. Because the fishing is definitely, it’s what we’re coming for, but it’s everything else that makes it, you know, I mean I staying at this lodge, you know, hanging out with, with everybody and you know, the guides and it, it’s just the whole thing. Even if the fishing, that’s the cool thing about it. Even if the fishing for some reason is not red hot, you know, it’s usually a great trip because you get everything else right. The comradery and everything. Rod (1h 7m 33s): Well Dave, like I’ve went to places up in Labrador, which consists of a drive and a fairy ride and another long drive and old gravel highways and yeah, it was then and and get there and find out I had a fish never showed up. Dave (1h 7m 51s): Oh right. I’ve heard, yeah, we had that happen too. Topher Brown was on like a year ago I think, and he was talking about one year he came in and it was Atlantic salmon. I think he was somewhere up north, I can’t remember where. But you know, one year he went in, I think they were there for two weeks. It was one of those really, you know, remote and the fish didn’t show up and he talked about that. And then the next year went back to the same spot and it was this best trip ever of his life. Rod (1h 8m 14s): That’s right. We had a guy used to come for every year on the 15th of June and he fished great fish and a lot of 10, 12, 14 pound fish. And he came the another year and he was there for two weeks. He never saw one fish. So, you know, like if there’s no guarantee, it’s something we have no control over. Dave (1h 8m 38s): No you don’t. But you do have control over, like you said, the kinda learning about it. And you know, and that’s a cool thing about this because some people might be interested in bringing their spay and that’s great, but there’s gonna be some people that are just, you know, they’ve never done it before at all. And having a single hand rod is actually pretty cool because they already know how to cast that for the most part. And then they’re gonna be able to just grab a nine weight, you know, a little heavier and get into it. What about somebody, do you get many people up there that are like new to fly fishing? Like they haven’t done much and they’re, you’re like teaching them how to cast? Rod (1h 9m 6s): Yes. Not many, but Atlantic salmon fishing a lot just the first time. And some people fly fish before a totally different concept. They tell us from fishing Atlantic salmon. But if you, the casting, if you can cast a fly, if you can cast well, the rest is just basic things. We need to tell you where to put the fly, how to fish. S there’s where the salmon lie and yeah, but that’s the big thing. And again, if you have a spay rod or a switch rod, which popular around Newfoundland now please bring it. Don’t come and ruin your trip because I’m saying I use a single and nine weight. Dave (1h 9m 51s): No, we’re gonna bring everything. We’ll we’ll have yes spare rods Yes, whatever. Whatever you got. And then you guys have rods probably too. Do you have rods there if somebody, you know, needed a a? Rod (1h 9m 60s): Well I’ve, I, like I told Lee, I said, Lee, don’t worry about bringing, if you, you know, see as many rods or in your trip or I said, I’ve got three or four rods that you’re welcome to use and fitted with different lines. So if you know that’s not a problem. Dave (1h 10m 18s): What about for you? Have you done any steelhead fishing? Have you been out steelhead fishing? Rod (1h 10m 24s): Never. But Calvin’s photos he send, he keeps sending me those drives that like, Dave (1h 10m 29s): So you haven’t, you haven’t been able to compare. So this will be, that’s what’s kind of cool about this. I’ll have to fill you in when we’re there just because I’m really interested because I haven’t ever fished for Atlantic salmon. So it’s kinda the same thing. And I’m gonna be doing that for the first time and I’m really interested to feel, to see the whole thing, you know, because the take, like I said, there’s winter steelhead, there’s summer steelhead, you know, two different life histories and, and the summer steelhead, you know, in the rivers our home river, it can be, it’s summertime, you know, and you’re out there. It might be, you know, it might be hot, you know, in your shorts fishing for what, what is this like in June down there? Is it gonna be weather-wise? Could it be all over the place? Could it be super nasty or what? What’s that look like? Rod (1h 11m 4s): Yes. All over the place. Our weather has changed drastically. Our summers are warmer. Our winters are warmer. Right. Today like a 16 degrees Fahrenheit. Not warm, but definitely not cold for mid-March. And we, our snow conditions are a little above last year. We like the snow conditions to stay late for the, to keep the water cool. Running off the mountains. Mm. Right. But that seems like the last couple years the snow’s left us early due to warm temperatures and the water in July tends to go up pretty quick. Dave (1h 11m 44s): Right. So that’s it. Yeah. The change in with the climate change and stuff like that. What now? We Rod (1h 11m 48s): Were fortunate last year they never closed the rivers due to water temperatures, which can happen. But it’s only, that’s rare that they shut down the river. Dave (1h 11m 58s): Right. Okay. Well I guess, yeah, I mean I was gonna, I guess we could take it outta here pretty quick. You know, one question I want to have definitely is on the casting, I think casting, you know, especially if there’s wind, what, what would be, let’s just start to take it out right there on the cast. What, what is, if it’s gonna be nasty and kind of windy, what’s your biggest tip with somebody? Just keep it short or how, how do you get a cast out there when it’s blowing maybe at your face? Rod (1h 12m 20s): Yeah, just fish within your limits. You know, if I, if I’m fishing the right side, looking downstream the river, I’m looking at a photo of this guy I, I got anyway, I cast over my left shoulder. I’m right-handed, but I, I cast across my body over my left shoulder. I find I can present that into the wind a lot. Oh really? A lot better than if, but Jason, he goes over the right shoulder, Colby goes over the left shoulder. So whatever works for you. Dave (1h 12m 49s): What about switching hands? Do you ever switch? Can you cast with your left hand? Rod (1h 12m 53s): Mm, very poorly. Dave (1h 12m 55s): Yeah, me too. I know some people could do both that, that’s the interesting thing. Yes. Yeah, that’s, it’s funny Rod (1h 13m 0s): Dave, one other thing, waiting. Oh yeah, of course you got breathable waiters waiting staff. I think we have some available, but if, you know, at a foldable waiting staff, which doesn’t take much room and please fils on your boots, I prefer, but if you bringing fils, clean them really well prior to coming or new ones, new felts or whatever, you know, you may wanna bring a, a piece of warm coating underneath your waiters in case the water temperature is down to 14, 15 degrees Celsius. I’m talking now. Dave (1h 13m 38s): Yeah, 15. That’d be like 30. That’d be Yeah, in the forties. Yeah, high high thirties. Rod (1h 13m 42s): So yeah, it that i I don’t know what water’s gonna be like. Dave (1h 13m 47s): Yeah, so bring your stuff, bring your stuff like you were in June when we’re gonna be there. Bring like we’re it, it could be cold so I mean it could be nice too. Right? But you wanna have a mix of fires. Rod (1h 13m 55s): Yes. Yes. Exactly. What Dave (1h 13m 58s): Would be, before we get outta here, just Atlantic salmon in general. You’ve got somebody new coming there that hasn’t been there. Maybe like me, never fished for ’em before. What are a few tips you’re gonna tell? You know, me or whoever is as they’re getting out on the water. What like three atlantic sam tips to have a better chance to get a fish. Rod (1h 14m 14s): Well like I said, you’re going to need to pay full attention. Dave (1h 14m 18s): Don’t look at the mountains. Right. Don’t look at the mountain. You gotta be looking at your fly. Rod (1h 14m 21s): No, you don’t look at your buddy and you turn around that you’re probably going to lose a big fish that’s gonna come just, and sometimes Dave, as I said, they’re so aggressive you don’t even have to sit the hook. But do not get that in your mind that you don’t have to sit the hook even if they’re, they’re fast enough. Yeah. If I’m watching my fly, I’ve had fish take and be on the fly before I sit the oak, but I still sit the yo does that make sense? Yeah, Dave (1h 14m 52s): Yeah. You’re still set just to make sure you get it set. Rod (1h 14m 55s): Yes. And I had two last year in one day when Calvin was here, a 12 and a 14 pounder and one guy I had, I had raised two fish on the one swing. One grass came, it never took the fly and it sw came on across about six feet and a and a big fellow came and the next cast, I oak the big fellow. But yeah, just, just pay really good attention to any movement in your fly or a silver flash or some movement at the surface that you say, oh I think that was a fish because nine chance of 10 it was a fish. Yeah, right. He just came and he turned back before he broke the surface. Rod (1h 15m 36s): That happens quite a bit. Dave (1h 15m 38s): It does. Okay. So if you get That’s what I was gonna ask you about that. So if you’re that swinging it down the fish sometimes or you know, maybe touching it but not hooking up or, and you just put the same cast back on them. Yes. Rod (1h 15m 50s): Yes. Dave, you can actually feel the fish sometimes. I don’t know if it just takes the feathers or if it’s the bow of the oak and it doesn’t get snag with the, with the point. So you cast back and that fish may come again. It may come, I’ve had fish rise eight to 10 times to a fly and not take it Dave (1h 16m 11s): Right. And not take it. And then when do you switch up? When would you switch up the fly to maybe think that, would that do it if you switch to a different color or size? Rod (1h 16m 18s): Oh yes, a hundred percent. You may, you you just hit everything a different size, a different, a different pattern and you may even if the water’s right go back from a wit to a bomber and it’ll work. Dave (1h 16m 32s): Yeah. Right. Wet the bomber. Okay. So, and that’s what’s cool is that you’re gonna be on these runs. You’re not necessarily, and you’re, you’re not. Right. We’re not necessarily stepping down through these runs for the most part. You’re, you’re staying Nope. Stationary and covering water like in front of you out and and that’s you’re they’re in these little buckets that you’re covering. Rod (1h 16m 47s): Yeah. So there’s like, if we, if we fish and there’s only two fishermen on, on the one side of the river, then you fish that for half an hour and okay, move down 10 feet, six feet, whatever. Oh, Dave (1h 17m 1s): Okay. Rod (1h 17m 1s): But if you’re restricted and there’s, you know, the pool’s got four or five fishermen on either side, but then you’re restricted to movement anyway. Well it’s not something we do and it’s a question that’s been asked a lot over the last couple years. Dave (1h 17m 16s): Yeah. Is the moving right. ’cause people still have fish a lot of times are moving that that’s kind of cool that you can be in one place. ’cause it makes it easier to probably get more fishermen in in the area. Right. You could, yeah. Rod (1h 17m 27s): Yeah. Well, I mean we talked before about Mr. Green. He used the, the big spay rod, but he used the over and cast, remember Mr. Green from our last episode? Yeah. He, he came in in 1956, I think the first time. Dave (1h 17m 41s): Right, Mr. Green. Rod (1h 17m 42s): Yeah. And he used a big rod, but he used the, over just a regular overhead two-handed cast and he could throw a line quite ways and, and he’d, he’d sit there in, in one place and if somebody moved below him then he’d probably move down a couple feet. So yeah. Wow. But for the most part, yeah, you would be sitting there for an hour if you want, or two if you want, or come in for a break, sit down at the picnic table or got a place there right by the river. You can sit down and view the river. Probably boil the kettle and have a snack. Dave (1h 18m 16s): Yeah. You can take a break. Or is anybody sitting out there on the, and having a, is there, are there ever any little campfires out there along as, as you’re waiting? Rod (1h 18m 24s): Oh yeah, we, we’ve had campfires and had a little cook up on the beach and, and there’s a place actually right by the side of the river. You can go in and sit down if the weather’s crap like rain and wind and get out out of the weather and still view the river. Dave (1h 18m 38s): This is great. Well I think, I think Rod we’ll do is maybe, maybe leave it there. I mean obviously there’s a lot more we could talk about. We talked a little bit about Lee Wolf. I think for me, you know, it it’s the history, you know, it’s fishing where Lee Wolf fished Atlantic salmon, you know, the traditional doing kinda all this and fishing with you, you know what I mean? You’ve got, you know, over 50 years of experience. I think that’s what kinda gets me excited. I think people that are gonna be coming in, it’s gonna be pretty cool to do this. So, so we’ll send everybody out to mountain waters resort.ca and they can of course check in with me as well to check on this trip because we’re looking at, you know, in that kind of late June period. But you know, again, we’re gonna be doing this for multiple years as the plan. So I think, who knows, maybe the next year we’ll be out there a little bit later and, and mix it up. Dave (1h 19m 21s): But, but yeah. Rod, I really appreciate your time. Any, any last words you wanna leave us with before we get outta here today? Or did we do a good job high level here? Rod (1h 19m 30s): I think you did. I think we, we covered a lot and it’s a lot to absorb unless you’re actually on the river. To cut the into practical, I like to think that if the fish show up, you’ll have a great trip. I have no control over the fish, but it’s something that, oh my goodness. Dave (1h 19m 51s): Yeah. If they’re there, we’re gonna catch one, right. Rod (1h 19m 53s): I can’t see, I can’t see a coming a week. But there is people who have very, are very unlucky fishermen, I’ll call it that. I’ll put it that way. And there’s other people who not great casters and great fishermen have lots of lock and Dave (1h 20m 8s): Well, I’m gonna go back to Brian Ska. He’s our, he does our in theb bucket spay kind of West coast steelhead stuff. And he has a lodge up in on the Chena River in BC and BC Yeah, yeah. In BC. And he says he, he guides, you know, he’s, he, he owns the lodge but he talks about these people that come up that are like the guys that I’ve gotta get a fish, you know, I’ve gotta get a fish, I gotta get a fish. And the guy’s almost stressed out and those guys almost never catch a fish. And he says that the guys that come in or they’re more relaxed and they’re just like, man, I’m here. Just enjoy this and you know what I mean? If the fish are here, we gotta shot. Those are the guy, the people that catch fish. Do, do you find that, do you ever see like those guys that are kind of stressed out and they feel like the numbers game? Dave (1h 20m 48s): Do you see that at all? Rod (1h 20m 50s): Oh boy. Yeah. That’s so true what you just said. Okay. That is so true. And I go back to Charlie Mitchell from Chicago area. He is not stressed but he catch his fish. There you go. Some guy, they ruined, they ruined their trip because it’s all about catching fish, right? It’s not all about catching fish. Dave (1h 21m 8s): No it’s not. Rod (1h 21m 9s): Enjoy your time, enjoy your trip. Listen to your guy, please listen to your guy. Those guys you’re gonna have guiding, you are gonna know what they’re doing. Dave (1h 21m 18s): Yeah, I’m putting that one down as another tip. Yeah, listen to your guy. That’s a, a good recommendation. Rod (1h 21m 22s): Yeah. One guide is gonna tell you something a little different from the other guide and that’s just personal things. Both of it probably works well, you know, we, we add some, you know, you can get people, I don’t like changing guides. I like if I’m with Dave or Lee or Steve, if I got Steve and Lee or Dave and Lee, I’d like to spend the week with you because otherwise I’m not getting to know you. I don’t have that interaction with you when it comes to explaining what I want you to do. All of a sudden the next day I’m gone with somebody else. Oh right. So I’d prefer, and all the guides prefer that they stay with the same fishermen. Dave (1h 22m 7s): That is a good point. I think we heard that on a, a re actually a, a euro, this is nipping, Josh Miller was on a podcast and he’s a expert, you know, competitively fly fishes and stuff like that. But he was talking about how that was his advice too. He said find one person to learn from. You know, even if that, if that’s online or whoever and just because everybody’s different. But if you find one person, yeah, that’s an expert and you, you follow his, you’re gonna be successful. But if you try to follow this guy expert and this guy and all these people, it kinda gets confusing. Rod (1h 22m 35s): Good advice. Great advice Dave. Dave (1h 22m 38s): Yeah, good. I’ve learned a few things over the years so that’s one of ’em. But this has been great Rod. Definitely appreciate your time today. We’ll be in touch obviously and we’ll send everybody out, like I said, mountain Waters Resort and we’re really excited to see you here and in the distant future and not too distant future, we’ll talk to you then Rod (1h 22m 53s): Looking forward to. And if you do talk to Calvin, please say hello. Dave (1h 22m 59s): Your call to action today. Check in with Ryan at Mount Waters Resort. Go there right now, Mount Waters resort.ca and and find out what he has available. You can also check in with me, dave@weflyswing.com and then I’ll let you know what we have going for this trip. If we have any spots open and we’ll let you know. We’re gonna be heading there. We’re gonna be living the dream, so would love to see there in the water. We’re gonna have some spay rods. We’re gonna be single hand, we’re gonna be doing it all. So it’s a good chance to get a shot at one of these Monster Fish. One highlight before we get outta here. Just wanna let you know tomorrow we’re heading back over to the other side of the, the world. Or actually we’re heading over to the other side of North America to look at Fish Alaska. We’re gonna be talking Fish Alaska, we’re gonna be fishing Alaska and we’re gonna be talking with Marcus there at Fish Alaskan Magazine. Dave (1h 23m 47s): So stay tuned for that. We’re gonna talk about everything they have going up there and I gotta get outta here. So hope you have a good morning, hope you have a great afternoon or good evening and we’ll talk to you on that next episode.