760B | Moccasin Fly Club with John Hunt – Curated Fly Fishing Travel Experiences

Dave (2s): It all started with a forgotten pair of wading boots, a group chat, and a long hike in a Cheeseman Canyon wearing nothing but moccasins. What began as a few buddies trading fishing reports and planning weekend trips slowly grew into something much bigger. An amazing resource for anyone interested in Fly fishing travel. By the end of this episode, you’ll know how to travel on a budget, find the right guides for the trip, and build Fly fishing trips that fit any style or wallet. This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, And what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. John Hunt, founder of Moccasin Fly Club, helps us understand how to find trips on a budget and why some of the best adventures are still DIY. Dave (46s): We also get into fishing gear, two handed casting and how the club keeps things fun, flexible, and community focused. Whether you’re chasing red fish in New Orleans or permitted Mexico, John’s got a trip for you and he’s gonna show us how to travel smarter and fish with more success this year. Here he is, John Hunt from moccasin flight club.com. How you doing, John? John (1m 10s): Doing great, man. It’s a nice day here in Denver and, and happy to be on the pod. I appreciate the time. Yeah, Dave (1m 15s): Yeah. This is, this is gonna be good. We’re gonna definitely talk Colorado today. I think you guys have a travel program where you’re not only in Colorado, but around the country. Not only Fly fishing, but some hunting. And so you guys have a diverse background with your program. We’re gonna get into all that today. I’d like to take it back to the start real quick and just talk about, you know, how you got into all this before moccasin came to be is, do you have a first memory in Fly fishing? What, what’s that look like? John (1m 40s): I mean, yeah, I guess first memory in fishing in general is just as a kid with my grandfather, originally from Missouri. And I used to spend weekends driving all over from lakes and rivers and ponds and different stuff with my grandfather fishing. At that point, I was young and, and spin fishing, but he was a, a fly fisher and I, I have one of his old rods still here at the house that is from like 1940 or something. That was like my first ever introduction into the fly world was, you know, me with a bobber and a worm and watching him doing all of this kind of elaborate things with a fly line and et cetera. John (2m 20s): And then throughout my travels in college and everything else, I ended up, up in Aspen where there’s, I mean, tons of water to Fly fishing. I wasn’t Fly fishing at that point avidly, but had a bunch of buddies that were guides and whatever, and that kind of brought it back around. And then, I mean, was Fly fishing a ton all over the front range of Colorado. And then in 2018 is kind of when moccasin slowly formed from a, a bunch of buddies on a group chat that the name of that group chat turned into Mox and Fly Club. And then from there kind of turned into its own brand. But I left my house one morning at like four 30 in the morning to drive down to Cheeseman Canyon. Got there we’re all suiting up in the parking lot to get ready and noticed that I don’t have my boots, I have waiters, I have all my other stuff, but don’t have the boots. John (3m 10s): And was wearing the, the house shoes that I ran out of the house at Yeah. To try to get on as fast as possible. So ended up hiking in and walking around Cheeseman Canyon for a full day and hiking out in a pair of Minnetonka moccasins. Oh really? That shortly thereafter turned into how the name came to be. But you know, I still, every now and then I’ll get a text from somebody that says, you know, make sure you bring your boots and don’t show up in moccasins. But that Cheeseman Canyon hike is not too strenuous, but it’s definitely uphill and downhill and all over. And I was wet weighting in, in a pair of shorts and no socks and moins, because that’s what I had. So that’s, a lot of people ask about the name there, there is no fly club to speak of. It was kind of a joke about the, the group text for about a year or so after that. John (3m 56s): And by the end of 2018, we had some shirts made, had some hoodies made, had other stuff going. And then that eventually turned into like the, the first trip out to Pyramid Lake was through all of those and how it came to be. And so 2019 actually like, you know, formed a company, got it all set up and whatever, but the, the moccasin is more of just a, a laugh and a poke at, you know, a funny gag that happened to me years ago that now even still comes up, but yeah. Yeah. So I mean, officially not a club as much of it, it’s just a business. Yeah. Dave (4m 28s): But it is kind of a, I, I like the club. It sounds different, you know, it’s always good to be different right when John (4m 33s): You have there. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And I mean, those, those guys are still fishing and doing stuff. Some of them are on our trips. Some of ’em do do other stuff. One of ’em is one of our designers that makes a bunch of the, the clothing designs and stickers, designs and stuff. But I mean, that, that hike and that day fishing in moccasins was a, a lot of laughs. It was some fish. But Dave (4m 53s): What, what’s the hardest thing about fishing in moccasins other than trying to keep ’em off? Staying on your feet. Right. John (4m 58s): Yeah, keeping ’em on the feet is one thing I, I, I tell everybody the worst part was like the mile and a half hike out with sopping wet leather moccasins to like get to your car and not having any, I ended up driving home, like I drove home barefoot with the heater on blast on my feet. ’cause I was like, freezing. Was, Dave (5m 14s): Were these the moccasins, were these the moccasins that actually had, some of them don’t have like a sole, like they’re not even made for outdoors. Were these or these, like those type or were they more the type? No, John (5m 23s): No, no. So they had the little, little like rubber bumps on the bottom. And I mean, I, I literally wore, you know, would wear them around the house or whatever, but in the excitement of trying to go fish jumped out, got it all done. And I mean, when I got home I looked right by the front door and my waiting boots were just sitting there like, you know, what the hell happened? But yeah. Yeah. So the hike out was probably some of the hardest part, trying to go uphill and, and threw things in, you know, soaking wet leather moccasins and then get into your car and just being like, I don’t have anything to put on no socks. Right. Needless to say, now I always have like a dry pair of socks. Yeah. Dave (5m 56s): Your backups. John (5m 57s): Yeah. Even if they’re gonna freeze in the car, they’re still in there the night before because I just, Dave (6m 2s): You don’t wanna make that mistake. John (6m 3s): Yeah. It’s not, it’s not worth going through that again. Dave (6m 5s): That’s awesome. That’s a great, a great story, you know, to, to a great reminder. And the group chat is good too. So in that group, you guys, what, what were you doing? Were you just kind of chatting about where you’re going fishing or were you guys always fishing together as kind of a group? John (6m 17s): Yeah, so it’s, you know, it’s, it’s the same old thing where it’s like, starts with like, you know, three or four buddies that are always trying to figure out if, if people are free to fish, you know? Yeah. This Thursday night I may be able to get out and this was a, a world before I had had kids and other stuff, so it was, you know, like gonna go to South Boulder on Thursday if anybody wants to go, gonna go here. And then all of a sudden you’d have, you know, multiple guys bite on it. I think that day it was all four of us driving to Cheese, McCain and I was only solo car, so I was in a car by myself. The other guys had all picked each other up. Oh, gotcha. So it got out to that one. And then after that it kind of, I think it grew to like six or eight different people in the chat just to see like, you know, how we could get people to get, you know, Saturday we’re gonna go out early over here. This looked good. John (6m 58s): It almost, it turned into more of a, like a intel and kinda like a beta information type thing. Like, oh, you know, I was out in gypsum this past weekend and these were hitting or out, right. You get your fish picks and all the stuff. And it was a way for all of us to kind of, you know, stay on the same page fishing wise, but then also able to kind of figure out where to go, what was in, you know, I’m gonna go up there on Friday and if I see anything, and then other guys are gonna go up there on Saturday. And that chat just evolved over time. And that’s, I think, I wanna say the first, the first run of t-shirts, I think we did like 12 and it was for those guys. And there were some other buddies and friends that were like, oh, you know, I’d, I’d rock one of those shirts. Yeah, so that one looks good. John (7m 38s): And then shortly thereafter here in Colorado, it was getting cold, so we did some hoodies. And those hoodies are actually what kind of spawned into taken and mold for like full fledge on the clothing aspect. We had, you know, 12 hoodies that were out there, people wearing ’em while they’re fishing, while they’re not, and, and other people asking questions about like, oh, you know, where’d you get the hoodie? How’d this work? And then that’s how, I mean, it originally started just making clothes and Dave (8m 0s): Oh, it did. So before you had all the travel, that’s that kind of how it started? Yeah, John (8m 4s): So like 2019, at the end of 2019, we did our first trip to Pyramid with 12 anglers, but end of 2018 we made our first run of shirts. And then all of 2019, it was just kind of like small batch exclusive run stuff here in the front range where like we’d come out with, you know, 12 or 24 hoodies or 12 or 24 shirts and they would sell out within, you know, the first week of being there. I mean, all the guys in the text thread would all, would all buy a shirt, but most of them would take an extra one with them and be able to sell it within the next three or four days to somebody else that they knew to fish. It was this, you know. Yeah. Kind of like a, an old school, almost like members only club or like a cheese and wine club. John (8m 44s): Like, you know, they’d come out and within the week they’d all be gone and then people would line up for the next one and hey, you know, my buddy once won this time. And I think the biggest run we did was, was probably like, almost like 30 of an an older design shirt mid 2019 right before the summer. And that one went real fast and went good. And then at that point it was like, all right, now we need to keep some clothes in stock instead of just selling out every time. And that actual run is what prompted six or seven of these people to be like, you know, we want to figure out how to go to Pyramid, mid Lake y, yada yada. And so that, that’s when I was like, look, I’ll figure out all the lodging, I’ll figure out all the guides, figure out what’s happening. And the, and Pyramid, mid Lake Outfitters was the, the first guys that, that we started working with. John (9m 24s): And we took a group out that year, a group out the next year before the pandemic. And then at that point it was like those now clients were asking questions about, you know, pyramid Lake was great, but what’s next? Or we wanted to figure out this or we wanna know about that. And then that was, you know, led to us kind of developing this program where now we cover, you know, Alaska to Argentina, to Mongolia and wherever else. But I mean, we still have clients that may went on a trip, they went on a trip three years ago and now they wanna figure out a new place or somebody that went, you know, like last week we got a phone call about the Cook Islands off of Australia. You know, can you find anybody there? Do you know anything that’s going on there? How do we get out for a day fish on a family trip? John (10m 5s): And just like it started in 2019 with Pyramid Lake, that’s kind of how it, it continues to develop. Now. We have a huge network of people where if you want to DIY fish, we’ll find out the information for you to, to DIY. If you wanna talk to a guide, we can put you with a guide if you wanna hire a guide for a day and then fish on your own. And it’s almost, you know, it’s, it’s crazy how it goes even more full circle now where our clothing line does well, but everybody that goes on a trip still gets a sun hoodie for every trip that they go on, or they get a gator or buff. So we try to, you know, that that’s still from like the, the original start in 2018 and 2019 was, you know, people that we’d go fish with, we’d give gear to, to let them rock. John (10m 48s): And even now, like we have a lot of conversations about do we make clothing for the lodges that we have or do we just have box and fly club clothing for that and certain species on the shirts. And I mean, it, it kind of gets into a weird deep dive with the team on, you know, how many different ways you can turn it around. Dave (11m 5s): How many ways can you do it? Yeah. Because you could, yeah, I could see it working well. Yeah. I mean, having both almost You go to a lodge and you’ve got the lodge on the front side and, and you guys on the back or whatever. Right. You got a kinda a partnership. Yeah, John (11m 15s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. Yeah. And we, I mean now we do, we give out coozies and certain things at the lodges in Colorado and New Mexico for everybody, whether or not you have it. But then if you are on a moccasin trip, you know, you still get a moccasin sun hoodie of, of whatever that is. And usually it’s the target species. So, you know, when you go to Brazil, you get one with a peacock bras, when you go to New Mexico, you get one with a trout. And those things were like, what? That’s what we did when we started off, you know, like everybody got a shirt when they went to the Pyramid Lake trip. Everybody that was in the group chat, you know, we got shirts going for that. So Dave (11m 49s): You did the same thing. John (11m 50s): Yeah. Trying to at least keep that, you know, a pseudo part of the roots that now we call it a gift bag though, because it’s got, you know, a fly line from a sponsor and it’s got a sun hoodie and it could have some other stuff. And the, I mean, the biggest thing that is always, even to this day, talked about in the text threads, we make a little plaque that says big as fish for every trip. So like, you know, if you go to, if you go down to Argentina and you fish for Golden Dorado, we have a little wooden plaque that’s nothing special, but it says, you know, Argentina Boxing Flight Club, biggest fish award. Yep. And we have guys that, you know, try to collect ’em like Pokemon And we have other guys that, you know, have send us pictures of ’em in their office. Right. John (12m 30s): That started with Pure Midlake as well, is that, you know, the guy that caught, we had a, a couple side bets going, you and our biggest fish, most fish, smallest fish, first fish. Right. All these little side bets that had a dollar amount or something with it, plus biggest fish had a, had a prize. And those things still continue now, no matter where we do it, no matter who from our group is hosting a trip, no matter what, it goes down to it, it’s, there’s always the same fun aspects of a fishing trip to get people happy. On the hunting side, it’s a little different ’cause most of those guys are, are trying to, to take home a trophy no matter what it is. Oh, right. But in the fishing world, you know, you get your old school clothing just like we’ve always done. Plus there’s a little competition for everybody to have fun. John (13m 10s): And when you get back at night, everybody’s having a drink talking about who’s this, who’s that. I will tell you they get, now it gets even more technical about, you know, a guide’s gotta, you know, length or weight. You gotta have a picture of it over the years, there’s all kinds of ways to be, be a little bit more sure that everybody’s being accurate and there’s no big fish tails coming out. Oh, right. Dave (13m 30s): Yeah. That that, that’s the thing. It’s, there’s always the, I hear that about the 30 inch trout. Like, you know, I think Chad Johnson was talking about that the other day. He was like, man, you hear all these guys talking about 30 inch trout, they’re talking about the White River. And he was like, man, he’s a guide every day. And he’s only seen a handful of ’em in his career over 30. Right, right, right, right. So I I feel like we all kind of stretch. It’s, it’s fishing, right? We stretch it a little bit. Yeah. John (13m 51s): Over the years there’s a bunch of stuff that gets added on. I mean, same thing, you know, the, the 30 inch trout, the bull red, a 20 pound plus bull down in, in the marsh, or a 20 plus pound peacock or a 20 plus pound Dorado. I mean, I think there’s, there’s a lot of numbers that, you know, most people are trying to hit 24 inch trout, then all of a sudden there’s somebody that talks about a 30 inch trout, then you talk about a, you know, 20 pound or 30 pound this or a, you know, huge marlin and a hundred pound tarpon. There’s all these numbers that I think are kind of like a staple for what, you know, there’s, there’s what a guide, like he would, a true number that they would call a trophy and there’s all these other things and Yep. John (14m 32s): I tell everybody all the time, I’m like, if, if your hands are too close together, everybody knows it can’t be that big of a fish, so Right. No matter how far you push it out towards the camera and Yeah. Dave (14m 40s): Right. The bush out. Yeah. John (14m 41s): It’s like, you know, hands are an easy way to, to figure some of it out. But I will say that, you know, you, you hear about 30 inch trout. You, I mean, people show pictures of all this thing, oh, you know, the guy says it was this, it was that. But it it, it is interesting nowadays we have a lot of things where like, you know, tape measures, there’s new technology with the little ball thing that you can take a picture of when it’s in with the fish to figure out the length. Oh, okay. I mean, all kinds of stuff that we, that people bring on the trips or people talk about it. And usually on night one, when we bring out whatever the trophy’s gonna be for that trip, then all of a sudden it’s like, well how do we know and this and that and yeah. Well, you know, if the guy if take a picture of the tail, take a picture of this, you can weigh it. John (15m 21s): The guide can weigh it in the net. That’s, it’s always a, yeah, it’s always a part of the trip that Dave (15m 27s): Adds a little, I mean I think that’s the fun part about it, you know, and it’s of course not always about the biggest fish, but it’s kind of about just kind of the, you know, experiencing and keeping it fun right out there and having Yeah, John (15m 36s): Of course. Yeah. Dave (15m 37s): Yeah. Yeah. Well you mentioned a little bit, I, I’m interested in this ’cause we have people that listen that definitely, you know, talking about traveling, they want to get out and travel, but maybe don’t have quite the, you know, money to go on these major trips. Right. And I think that the idea of, of how do you travel on a budget? I think you’ve done, I’d say you’re probably an expert with all the travel you’ve done, but I wanna talk a little bit about that. Like where do you start that conversation? I’m sure that leads into your DIY stuff, but what would be a few tips you would give somebody if they’re, they’re thinking, Hey, I want to go do some traveling, but I, I wanna do it on a budget. What, where do you start that conversation? John (16m 7s): So, you know, my personal opinion is I usually am focused on more of e either a species or a location. Right? Yeah. So some place you haven’t been before. Now talking about new waters in a place you’ve never fished does make some anglers reluctant. I won’t use the term scared or afraid. Yeah. I will use the term reluctant. You know, you’re used to going to a certain place and you’re used to catching fish and you have a certain amount of time and you want to make sure that it’s productive for what you’re putting in. And home waters are like that. You should be able to go to home waters and catch fish and be good at catching fish there. I think in my career of traveling and fishing, a lot of places will tell you that to be the best angler that you can ever be, you gotta be able to go almost anywhere at any time and catch fish. John (16m 54s): So it’s not that you’re the best trout angler, it’s not that you’re the best red fish angler. It’s not that you’re the best walleye angler, it’s the fact that you are a great angler in general of whatever that is. Now, you know, you want to be a pure Fly fishing angler. I understand that. ’cause that’s what I love too. So finding new waters has a bunch of different ways. And if we’re we’re focused on budget, you know, I think we’re looking at drive time and lodging and do it yourself type of fishing. If we wanna actually go learn new waters, then I think there is some strategy about travel and being with a guide on the first day and then having the rest of the trip be DIY so that, you know, the flies, you know, the current, you can ask questions about the water and that day with the guide isn’t necessarily a, a super hard let’s fish day and catch fish as much as it’s an educational class type of day. John (17m 44s): Yeah. Like if you’ve never been to the San Juan New Mexico and you go there, it’s a technical tailwater and they’re throwing a bunch of different bugs depending on the flow and the time of the year and what’s happening and where you are in the river, what time of day it is on the river. And I think those are things that you can learn in new waters that will help you put fish in the net. And I think that’s overall the goal. Now, if you wanna stay domestic and you want to be in the States and you want to be within a three or four hour drive time, you know, pick something that does that and then you gotta drive there and fish for the day and drive back Every day that you go there, you’re gonna get better and learn something new about the new waters, which is, is part of the fun is that you get really good at catching something else. So here in Colorado we fish a lot for trout, we have cutthroat, we have brookies, we have rainbows, we have browns, we have whatever at pyramid mid lake in Reno, which is a 14 hour drive or a 90 minute flight, they have the biggest cutthroat trout in the world. John (18m 37s): And for me, I wanted to catch the biggest cutthroat trout that I could ever catch. Just so happens that the biggest in the world are relatively close to us compared to the other biggest fish in the world of a certain species. So that’s why the pyramid lake trip happened. I, oh yeah. I have been bitten many times by the bug of just wanting to catch big fish. I love catching a bunch of different species, but I also want to catch the biggest fish of species if I can. So that’s why we did a trip to Pyramid Lake in our first trip. You know, you’re standing on ladders and spay casting out into the middle of a shelf and trying to catch fish. And you get into it, you catch an eight pound cutthroat. That’s awesome. If the guy next to you catches a 12 pound cutthroat, you know that there are bigger fish out there and you’re learning all of those things, you probably are gonna learn new techniques on fishing. John (19m 23s): You’re probably gonna learn new techniques on how to tie rigs. You’re gonna learn new techniques on what type of weather you want and what type of things the fish are doing. And weather and learning about the fish and the environment and the new waters. We’ll always have help you when you go back home no matter what it is. Yeah. Like when you see them throw a suspended film rig at the San Juan that’s two inches under the surface and you catch a 20 inch trout, you’re like, oh, well now I know when I see those fish always rising, they may not be eating on the surface. They may be eating just below the surface. So I need to get my rig right below the surface of the water. And then at home, all of a sudden you’re catching fish that used to not hit the dry because they weren’t actually eating dry as they’re eating, you know, suspended things and stuff like Dave (20m 5s): That. Right. That’s crazy. Yeah. Is that one at Pyramid Lake? ’cause the ladders is the unique thing. You don’t find ladders, you know, you’re not pulling that out to your local lakes, but there are things there. You were taken home back to Colorado and other places. John (20m 16s): Yeah, I mean, I think some of the, I mean the, the understanding of where the shelf is, so, I mean, you’re on a ladder in Pyramid Lake because there’s like this, there’s this gradual kind of like, almost like a kitty pool, how you walk into a pool. Yeah. There’s this real gradual slope. And then, you know, another 20, 30 yards out there is a plummet. And this shelf is where the fish are rolling. The fish either come up the shelf down the shelf, but most of the time they’re around the shelf. The reason you’re on a ladder is because if you weren’t on a ladder, you’d be, you know, almost up to your shoulders in water and you can’t cast to the shelf. I mean, the first thing is, is understanding that, you know, those fish are on that shelf at Pyramid Lake. Another thing you learn real fast is the, the weather, the bigger the fish are. John (20m 59s): Oh really? Yeah. When the water’s chaotic and there’s snow and rain and waves and it’s not that fun to be out of the water, it kicks up and moves a lot of the things that are sedentary in that lake because there’s not a lot of water motion. But when you get the water moving, more of that aquatic life comes out and those big fish come out and eat. So, you know, being on the shelf knowing that even though it’s windy and it sucks out of the water, in the water, the fish are probably having the best day that they’ve had in a month. Right. And then also just, I mean, in general for me it was the first time I ever spa casted. Dave (21m 30s): Oh wow. So yeah, you guys are doing two handers down there. John (21m 33s): Yeah. So you’re on a ladder, two handed spa casting out to a shelf. You know, you’re, you got a, a like a long distance connect on a fish. So I mean, you’re not high sticking a river trying to, you know, fight a fish that’s only maybe 10 feet from you, you’re fighting a fish that’s probably, you know, 30 yards from you. So all of those things are great things to learn on being a angler in general. Dave (21m 54s): So are you, when you’re casting with the spay, are you guys doing the overhang cast or is it just like a roll cast, like a typical spay cast? John (22m 0s): Typical roll cast. Dave (22m 2s): Okay. And is that what the majority of people are doing out there, is the spay? John (22m 5s): I think a lot of guys are, are double hauling streamers or are double hauling when they can, if they wanna really get it out there. I think if you’re, if you are indicator fishing, you’re looking at more of a, a spay roll ’cause it’s a longer, a longer rig on that. I have done a lot of double hall single hand casting out there on ladders. And then I’ve also done a lot of spa casting. I, I think it really depends on the day and what’s happening on what’s more productive. And they will say, you know, the guys out there will say the, the double hall single hand casting is gonna be more for like stripping in something as opposed to YouPay casting is for more of an indicator fishing. It’s gonna just stay there and the indicator’s gonna get pushed in. You’re gonna have to spa cast again. But yeah, it’s just a a, a true normal roll cast, spa cast and it, it will get you further than any single hand cast. John (22m 49s): I mean that’s the bridging that distance to get to the shelf is the biggest part. And trying to hit the shelf is one thing. The what all the, the guides will teach you is that you need to be past the shelf. Right. You want your bugs to be the presentation to be real and they need to look proper while they’re drifting towards the shelf. And that’s when you get the most, the most bites. Gotcha. If you’re at the shelf drifting in, you’ve kind of missed that kill zone. Yeah. But yeah, and I think that’s, those are things that no matter where you go for this, you know, new waters on a budget no matter where you want to go, the biggest thing is just being a student. You know, learning what’s happening there, talking to people there. The other parts that I will tell you is that no matter where you’re gonna go, that’s new, stopping to a fly shop or figure out where there’s a guide service and go and ask them before you go fish. John (23m 36s): Yeah. Any good angler before you get down to the water, you shouldn’t have bugs tied on in the parking lot and go down there and say this is what’s gonna work. Go down to the water, spend 10 minutes looking around, see what the fish are doing, see what the bugs are doing. All of that intel is the same as, you know, going to a fly shop or going somewhere and being like, Hey look, we’ve never been here before. Drove all the way out here. Wanna have a good day? What can you tell us? Or what are your guides throwing? What’s been going on? Is it gonna be good? Is it gonna be blown out? What’s the weather gonna do? Yeah. You know, all of the know before you go, things that are preached in backcountry skiing or any outdoor sport are the, are the same in this as well. Like you, you’re not gonna go hunting in some field that you don’t know that there’s birds at or you don’t know is, is proper. John (24m 18s): Just like you don’t wanna go fishing that some river that doesn’t have the fish that you want or isn’t the right time of year to fish for what you want. So I think there’s a lot of stuff. Yeah. Even on a budget, there’s free information and freeways to make that better. Then obviously you get into, if you actually need different gear. Right? If you’re throwing a, a nine foot five weight here in Colorado and you wanna go down and fish for red fish in New Orleans, it’s not an expensive trip, but it probably requires different gear. So if you wanna find new waters on a budget, find new waters that you can use your existing gear with. You’re same rod and reel, but maybe you just need a different line. You’re same rod reel and line, but maybe you need different flies. John (24m 59s): Yep. I will tell a lot of people, especially here in Colorado, like if you can get out and get some bass fishing in, you’re gonna learn, you know, not only how streamer fishing works, you’re gonna learn setting the hook on a streamer set. You’re also gonna learn fighting a bigger fish. In a stronger fish. You can catch 12 to 14 inch trout all day in a river out here. It’s not the same as, you know, having a small mouth or a large mouth bass rip line out and and et cetera. So those are just different ways to get better at being an anchor that it is new. Do Dave (25m 27s): You guys have quite a bit of those? Is there quite a bit of small mouth fishing in Colorado? John (25m 31s): Yeah, so we up in Fort Collins, we have some small mouth fisheries, not as easy, but there are some, if you want to go, you know, drive an hour and get on trout and do other stuff, obviously we can make that happen for you. But as, as an angler, if you’re trying to learn new stuff, anything that’s new is, is better than doing some of the same stuff you can now I understand home waters and that you may not have the time to drive there and do this and whatever, but if you’re saying, look, I got a three day weekend coming up next month, I want to figure out where I can go. I can get within two hours from here and fish and get two hours home. There’s a whole new world for you to probably find some new fish and find new waters. That is gonna be a challenge And we will most likely make you a better angler. Dave (26m 12s): Yeah. What do you guys, what is your program? Maybe talk about that a little bit. Some of your popular, you know, most popular places people are coming to you for. Is this more kind of Colorado, you know, us or talk about that a little bit. John (26m 25s): Gotcha. So yeah, I mean we, we have a big base here in Colorado. We’re based in between Denver and Boulder. So in, I don’t know, about 30 minutes, we could be in South Boulder fishing or you could be down in 45 minutes to an hour. You could be at Cheese Min or Deckers or some of those infamous well-known places where I am at the office, we’re about three hours from our lodge by Glenwood Springs. So we have a house in Ilt, Colorado that’s three minutes from the lower Colorado River and that’s probably the easiest program that we talk to people about that aren’t from Colorado. If you want to come here and you wanna float fish, which again is a new thing, if you’re always walking and waiting and you wanna try something different, you know, fish on a boat with a guide and see how different that is, you’re gonna cover 10 miles worth of water as opposed to maybe half a mile. John (27m 14s): You’re gonna learn, you know how men’s really help out drifts, you’re gonna be in a bunch of different pockets. You’re also gonna be pretty much whitewater rafting down a, a river in Colorado. That’s our, our biggest DIY program. That’s Dave (27m 27s): The Glenwood Springs. John (27m 29s): Yeah. So right outside of Glenwood Springs, we have a place where people can fish reservoirs. You can do the frying pan, the Roaring Fork, the Colorado. You could drive up and do the white, you can do Harvey Gap. Rifle gap. You could also drive up into the flat tops for any of those high alpine things. And those are all, you know, DIY accessible or we have guides that people can talk to to get information or those same guides will book days and and do other stuff. But yeah, that’s probably our biggest, most well known one just because there’s a lot of people already coming to Colorado for trips so they can get in a half day, they can get in a full day. Some people come out for two or three days and stay there and fish as much as they can. The second one, that would be the, the cheaper aspect on New Waters would be the one in New Mexico at the San Juan. John (28m 13s): You’re gonna float past thousands and thousands of fish every a hundred yards, but it’s a very technical tail water that you need to, you know, know what’s going on. You can walk and wave the braids on your own. And we have a great group of people down there too that you know, whether or not you’re going out with a guide, the guides will all let you know what’s happening there. Yeah. Dave (28m 31s): How far is that from you guys? How far is the, that that sand line? John (28m 35s): So from Denver down there is probably like a six hour drive. Oh, Dave (28m 38s): It’s not bad. John (28m 39s): Yeah. And you can fly into Albuquerque and drive two and a half hours. You can fly into Durango and drive an hour and a half. You can fly into Denver and drive down there. I mean the getting there is, is the harder part when you get here to Denver, if you take 70 West in three hours, you’re in Glenwood Springs where, where the other place is. But there’s a ton of water in between here and there. You know, you can do Cheeseman and Deckers, you can do the Eagle, you can do the upper Colorado. So I mean we have a massive amount of water in Colorado. Plus we have a whole different program that is more on private aspects of waters with a, a big outfitter here that we have a partnership with. So, I mean there’s tons of stuff that when people come to Denver and they say they wanna do a half day, we have options. John (29m 21s): If you wanna do a full day, we have tons of options and those would be like the easiest fresh water DIY stuff After that. Our biggest destination that we do the most trips to year round is New Orleans. Hmm. It’s kind of like a intro to salt water. If you’ve never stood on the front of a skiff and sight fished for anything in the salt, red Fish and Black Drum and Sheep set are, are an unbelievable way to kind of see how you like it before you want to go through with Permit and Tarpon and other stuff. You can always go down and fish in New Orleans. It’s a domestic trip. You fly right into New Orleans, an hour away, you’re on a boat fishing. And we do four to five trips there a year in between November and February for a bunch of different things. John (30m 5s): Some of our corporate events go down there. Some of our clients will take their whole group down there. I personally love it just because it’s a way to go get on Big Fish. You know, you have a, a great chance of hitting some 20 pound plus reds in November, December, and January. And that one isn’t necessarily, I mean, compared to other trips, it’s kind of a, a better budget. But you know, it, it’s not the same. Like if you’re looking to stay in a car and only have an Airbnb and fish, new waters, you gotta stay in your general region. If you wanna fly somewhere and fish fresh water, those present themselves in a bunch. Dave (30m 37s): Yeah, you can’t, you’re not gonna be sleeping in your rental car right out, out in John (30m 40s): Orleans. No. You hope not. Yeah, so I mean if you wanna do the White River in Arkansas or you wanna do Colorado or New Mexico, we also have a bunch of stuff in New England and Maine and Vermont and et cetera. So, you know, we work with people on, you know, what’s closest and easiest. Then we kind of have our normal stuff that, you know, new Orleans is always a good one before you try to get out there and get after some crazy saltwater fish go down to New Orleans. There’s great food, usually great weather as long as there’s no hurricanes. Right. And then, you know, we get people on that one a lot. Who Dave (31m 10s): Are the people down there on the New Orleans trip? Who are the, the guys and is this something where the, what’s the lodging and all that stuff look like down there? John (31m 17s): We used to work with the lodge and Guide service together. Now we do more offsite lodging. So we’ll be getting Airbnbs and places for us to stay as a group. Dave (31m 25s): So you’ll set that up. So that’s kind of what you’re doing behind the scenes? Oh yeah. You’re setting up the Airbnb, you’re kind of doing everything. So people just come and Yeah. John (31m 31s): Yeah. And we, we talk more now as like a concierge service. So I mean if you want ground transportation, air transportation, private or commercial, you want lodging or lodging with or without chef’s food or et cetera. You want fishing on your own, fishing with a guide, hunting on your own, hunting on a, with a guide, everything all the way up to like travel insurance and et cetera. We do all of it kind of a la carte start to finish. We have trips that none of us go on as hosts And we just set up custom trips for clients to go do whatever they’d like to do and, and as much of what they want us to set up, we set up. Then we have hosted trips where we actually have one of our moccasin people on the trip with you. John (32m 13s): They’re your driver in the rental car. They pick you up at the airport, they take you around, they’re with, they’re with the guides, they’re helping you out, understand everything. And then the other one is just booking a guide. So like we have a lot of people that are already traveling and they just call us up and say, look, you know, I’m gonna be over here for this weekend. I’d like to find a guide for this date. Yeah. And we most likely have a guide already in that area. We see if they’re available or we can see if other ones are available. But yeah, I mean like that Alaska to Argentina to Mongolia type of tagline. I mean we do everything from, you know, cars, planes, helicopters, boats. Right. Fishing. Dave (32m 50s): So you’re setting up everything. So if somebody wants the full service, you know, everything covered, you do that or just to the opposite. John (32m 56s): Correct. Yeah. Like if you just call us up and say, look, we just want to be able to fish in Colorado on our own. You can, you know, stay at our place and fish on your own and not do anything else and drive yourself in, fly yourself in whatever. Gotcha. Dave (33m 8s): I, I’m interested on the New Orleans show ’cause I know I’ve been talking to a few people about that. You know, because redfish is a big species. I think a lot of people it’s on the list. Oh yeah, yeah. Describe that trip. Like if somebody wanted to do more of a all inclusive thing, they, you know, they wanted you guys to take care of everything. What, what would that trip, is there a timing already ready for that one? Are you guys like doing that the same time? Yeah. Yeah. John (33m 27s): We have dates in November. We have two trips in December And we have one trip in January as of right now that are locked and loaded. So it’s technically a four day trip. Day one you fly into New Orleans, you get picked up at the airport. We drive out to our lodging. It’s about an hour long commute from the airport out there. I’d say more really like 40 minutes. But depending on traffic we, we always like to say an hour. Yep. So night one is just, you know, setting up at camp, hanging out, talking to everybody. We do a opening dinner sometimes that’s going out somewhere where we can do local cuisine. Sometimes it’s a, a crawfish boil at the house that we’re staying at. Then day two is your first day on the water, you’re on the water all day, you get off, you have dinner. John (34m 10s): Day three is another day on the water. Then you’re off day four, you’re on the water all day. We get off the water and you go, you get driven right back to the airport. So you fly out the night of day four, you got three nights of lodging, three days of fishing on a skiff. It is two people per boat depending on how it works. Some people want their own boat And we can move around, but five spots on that one. 2,500 per angler gets you the three days fishing, the three days lodging, the opening dinner, the gift bag, the ground transportation. Wow. So everything except for your flight to New Orleans that’s cool. Is part of that hosted trip. And if you want to do other stuff, you know, we have some people that’ll stay instead of flying out the night of day four, they stay in New Orleans and go do something and fly out the next day. John (34m 55s): None of that matters to us. How you wanna set it up, we’ll get you to wherever you need to go. And I think, I wanna say right now I think we have one or two spots in November. I think we have one or one spot on each trip in December. And then we have three spots left in the January one. And I mean, it it, we set those trips up often though for multiple things. So if it’s you and a buddy that just want to go down there and fish, you know, we can find you the place to stay. Dave (35m 21s): Right. So you don’t have to. So if you could do, I mean the $2,500 is a great deal. You’re talking three days on the water, three nights like you said. I mean that’s a great value. And you can go down there and have it all inclusive essentially. You ba basically just get your flight to get to New Orleans and then everything else is taken care of. John (35m 37s): So you dinners for nights two and three would be on your own. Yep. We all have to bring our own lunches ’cause that’s just how it works. Gotcha. So we, we don’t say all inclusive. Dave (35m 47s): Yeah. It’s not all inclusive, but John (35m 48s): It’s Yeah. Like one trip to the grocery store and your tips, everything that was Dave (35m 51s): Covered. Yeah. But the lodging. Lodging is covered and the guides are covered. And who are the guides, I think, I think that’s another thing that is maybe challenging. Right. How do you find, how have you guys found all the guides and how do you kind of do your, your vetting system? How does all that work? John (36m 6s): So I mean, the biggest thing that we can say is that, you know, I’ve, I’ve been on everybody. I can’t say I’ve been on everybody’s boat. We as a company have been on everybody’s boat at least once. We let people know if we haven’t done. So what we do, we vet out outfitters often throughout the year, but we do what’s called a confirmation trip. So we fly there, we see what the transportation’s like, we see what the lodging’s like, we see what the food’s like, we go out fishing for a day with the, with them. So we kind of vet everything out in person on site to make sure we know what we’re getting into. Now what’s a good example? August of 2026. We’re going to Mongolia for the first time ever. Dave (36m 44s): Oh right. Mongolia. Now that, that’s a, that’s a far a little bit further, right? Yeah. John (36m 49s): So this trip we haven’t done a confirmation on and this trip we’ll have myself and another person from Moccasin on the trip with our clients. But we’re very honest about the fact that like, we haven’t been there before. We haven’t done the fishing. We can vet out as much as we can beforehand, but we’re gonna be there with you on site. We’ll be on the planes flying there, we’ll be in the truck driving to the camp, we’ll be there fishing with you for the week. We’ll be there getting you back, whatever. So that’s a, a different Dave (37m 16s): Type of thing. Different. And there can’t be that many. I’m, I’m guessing Mongolia, there can’t be that many operations out there. Right? Or, or they’re like no. Yeah. So these are kind of already vetted because there’s not a lot of choices. Right. You got, they’re probably all pretty good John (37m 27s): And we, I mean vetted meaning they have other people that have come out and gone fishing with them. Dave (37m 32s): Yeah. You could talk to, I mean that’s something you could do, right? You could talk to the people. I’m sure you guys have already done that. Right. Talk to Well, And John (37m 37s): We, and I mean we have a lot of that. So like in, in Mexico, if you want to go fish for permit, we have three different locations that you can go fish. We have Punta Allen in Ascension Bay, we have Casa Riha that’s in Ishak And we have another place, blacksmith and the spiritual. So I mean we have different places where we’ve been all over and know what it is, but it’s finding the right fit for what the client wants. Whether that’s budget, timing, time of year, and dates that are available. But yeah, I mean like in New Orleans with our guides, we’ve been going there since 2021. Now we have in the past three years, I think we’ve done almost 15 trips there. So I mean we, we have it. I can’t say it’s down to an exact science ’cause there’s always weather. John (38m 18s): Yeah. The reason why we do three days is that if you do get hit with weather, you hopefully still get two days of good fishing in. Yeah. Dave (38m 25s): This is Mexico? John (38m 26s): No, that was in, in New Orleans. Oh, Dave (38m 28s): That’s New Orleans. Yeah, John (38m 29s): In New Mexico we can do three days, five days, seven days, 10 days. Like we, we can set up almost anything. Dave (38m 34s): Okay. And what about the permit stuff on the Mexico that you mentioned? So John (38m 37s): The and the permit stuff is the same thing. You know, if, if you’ve never gotten into the salt water fishing and you wanna go after permit, they are finicky and they are hard and that’s why everybody wants to chase them. And why it’s kind of like a, a notch in the belt to hold a permit so that if if you’ve never done it, it’s gonna be a long week. You know, permit fishers talk about having shots in a week. They don’t talk about holding fish in a week. Dave (38m 60s): Yeah. So do you think it’s better to, if you haven’t done the salt water thing, do you think it’s better to maybe plan a trip to bonefish first or maybe bones and permit the same thing? Or do you guys do that, offer that? Yeah, John (39m 10s): I mean I think bonefish save a lot of trips if you don’t touch any permit and you can get in some bonefish or you can go after tarp and it’s great for us. Usually we tell people before you spend, you know, for five days permit fishing in Mexico, you’re probably at like three grand to 3,500. I always tell people, go down to New Orleans, get on the front of a skiff, try to catch some red fish, see how that goes. Right. If you like what that is, you can keep doing that and probably save yourself some money and be able to catch big fish. Or then we need to get you on, you know, the shot that you take at a bone, at a red fish, you’re probably gonna take twice to three times that at a permit. Right. Like you may, you may cast 12 feet, 15 feet at a, a red fish, you’re gonna be 40 feet. John (39m 52s): Oh yeah. At a, at a permit to try to get some eats going. So I think it always depends on, you know, what the ability is and what they wanna do. If, if you’re just want to go start putting in time catching permit, the more days you go, inevitably the more permit you’re gonna catch. So if you’ve only fished for permit for five days, you may not catch any, once you hit 15, 20, 30 days, you’re probably starting to get better at permit fishing and most likely you’re gonna hold some And some people are great right off the bat and that’s awesome too. But I, I would say that you wanna have expectations where they are. Like if you’re trying to go out and catch a hundred pound plus tarpon, it’s gonna take some time and you’re probably gonna get some forties and fifties and sixties and seventies. But hitting the triple digits is a special fish on a special day where it all comes together and, and you land a tarpon, you don’t always land those. John (40m 37s): No. If you hook into a small permit or a brake permit, you’re most likely landing the permit because that’s, their lips are soft and that’s how it works. Dave (40m 43s): Yeah, yeah. What about on the permit, if you were, what about if you wanted to do the permit thing? Again, you’re on kind of on a budget, let’s just stay on that budget idea. Is there a trip you guys offer, something you could put together where maybe somebody can go do a similar thing, like you said Colorado, get a couple days guided and then go off on your own? Or is that harder with permit? Oh John (40m 60s): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. We have, we have a couple places in, in Mexico and also another place in Honduras. You can go out and stay, you’d be in the same lodging the whole time. But you can have a a, a day or two with a guide and then try to go out on your own and do other stuff. Also, I think Belize would have some of that. Oh, Belize, right. When you’re DIY fishing for permit, most likely you’re on foot because you’re not renting a skiff, driving a skiff and fishing on a skiff. No. Just not how it works. So I think, yeah, you’re looking for beach and flats and being able to wade into flats and all this other stuff. So there are options for that too on a budget. You know, you’re probably still at around $2,000 on, on lodging, food and everything for the week. John (41m 42s): The guides aren’t necessarily more expensive when you’re staying at one of those lodges. It’s kind of like all rolled into the thing together. Yeah. And Dave (41m 49s): Is that Belize or is that Mexico for the permit on the budget? John (41m 53s): I would say Mexico, we could probably do that. That 2000 to 2,500 in Belize. I think you’re probably looking more at like three grand more just because it’s a little stronger economy. Yep. Honduras is probably around the same price as Mexico, but you’re either fishing from a beach and probably not on a flat. Or you want to be with a guide. And I think a lot of people, you know, if you wanna do three days, do three days with a guide. If you wanna do five days, do two days with a guide and three days on your own, you can get into your own fish and, and other fish. I mean there’s, you know, as the line goes, there’s plenty of fish in the sea. So you may not, you may not be right on your target species, but you still may get into some snappers and some jacks and some other awesome stuff. John (42m 34s): Yeah, you’re close. So I mean it, it’s kind of a what you wanna have happen. If you wanna get really good at fishing for permit, then you know it, it’s not gonna be the same budget as if you just want to catch some fish and, and Honduras and, and have a guide for a couple days. Yeah, yeah. But I think the, I mean the budget is all relative, right? Like if you wanna go down to Argentina and catch Golden Dorado, it’s not a cheap flight and it’s probably not as cheap of lodging and fishing. If you want to go to Brazil and catch peacock bass, that’s a different thing, you know? And I think if we break it down, you know, you can fish for under a thousand dollars, you can come to Colorado and New Mexico and fish for trout on your own. If you want to be in that, you know, $2,000 range, then you obviously got New Orleans and some other places. John (43m 14s): If you wanna be in a $3,000 range, then you’re talking Mexico, Belize, and probably most of Central America you can figure something out then if you want to do, you know, truly international stuff. Dave (43m 26s): Yeah. Is that the 4,000 plus or more John (43m 28s): I’d? Yeah, I’d say you’re probably five, six, something like that. And I mean, you know, our trip to Mongolia is 5,500 for Oh wow. Seven fishing. Dave (43m 37s): That seems pretty reasonable. John (43m 38s): Yeah. So it’s not, and and the flights are probably about a thousand, but there’s not, you know, a lot of people go into Mongolia all the time. Dave (43m 46s): No. Is that 65? So 6,500 for, is that everything? If you had the flight, is the 5,500 all inclusive? John (43m 53s): Yeah, so the 5,500 has domestic flight, all your logging, all your fishing, all your food, everything included in the 5,500. And then the flights are like 800 to 1200 or yeah, 800 to 1200 depending on when and how. So you’re probably talking, you know, under seven grand, you’re all inclusive. I mean for us in Colorado we’re going Colorado, New York, New York, Istanbul, Turkey, Istanbul, Turkey Mongolia. Then in Mongolia you gotta do some domestic moving and you’re in Northern Mongolia is the easiest way to describe it. But you are at a lodge. So we spend some time in the lodge fishing on property, then we have boats and go out and kind of do camping and Riverside meals and site fishing, Tamen, Lennox, grayling, Dave (44m 40s): Tamen. John (44m 41s): So it, yeah, it’s a whole different, you know, experience so to speak. And if you like the traveling and you like the expedition part of it, that’s an unbelievable one. If you want AC and wifi and being on a yacht, then Brazil would be a whole week in the Amazon rainforest. But you got AC in every room, your own bathroom and shower in every room you’re on a mother, you’re on 120 foot yacht for a week. Right, Dave (45m 3s): The yacht. Yep. Driving, John (45m 4s): Yeah, driving around in the Amazon, you’re fishing every day on the equator will catch lots of peacock bass. I mean I think my, my week down there in January, I did like 200 something peacocks in a week. So Wow. It’s a, a different thing now. If you want more luxury and wine and other stuff, then you can go down to Argentina and fish for Golden Dorado or trout. But either way you’re gonna have a siesta in the afternoon and bottles of wine and Yep. Unbelievable food And it’s kind of all depending on, you know, what people are looking at. As I said at the beginning, my personal opinion is I’m always looking at, at a species. So if I want to go catch the biggest tarp I possible, I’m trying to figure out how I can get to wherever I can be for migratory tarpon. John (45m 47s): If I want to catch the biggest Golden Dorado possible, then I want to figure out that if you just want to be at a new place And we work with tons of clients that as myself, like my family travels with me sometimes. So like if you want you, you and the family and the kids are gonna go to Costa Rica and mom and dad wanna fish for a day, we can figure that out. If you wanna come out to Colorado and do a bunch of stuff and then you also fly fish for a day, we figure out those things. It’s not like you only have to be a, a solo angler or a group of anglers only that want to go out and do stuff like trips or trips. So as much as you can get out of the trip, you should do that. Yeah, Dave (46m 24s): I like the way you broke it down, you know, on this because, and, and we’re gonna take it out here in a little bit, but you know, you kinda started with, you know, Colorado Springs, the San Juan, new Orleans for the permit And we didn’t talk about hunting or anything. I think we’ll probably get into that on the next one, but, you know, and then permit on a budget, but these different ranges, a thousand, 2000. So it sounds like, you know, that’s what you guys especially, I mean what would you say is your, you’ve described it here today, but what do you think makes you guys stand out apart from the other, you know, whatever you call the service you guys provide here? John (46m 54s): I mean I think there’s a little bit more hands-on with us. I mean one, we’ve probably done a lot of the stuff that we’re talking to you about doing. I think that the, the biggest thing is us trying to be more of a concierge service for all of this is that, you know, your satisfaction is a big part of what this wants to be. So if you tell us what you want, we’re trying to make that happen. We’re not trying to make what we want happen as much as it it’s, you know, trying to put you on where is the best place at the best time to do that. Yeah. If that’s family fishing or if that’s you trying to get a bucket list fish or if that’s you wanting to go someplace you’ve never gone before. And I also think it, you know, know we’re small and we’re also out there in the field. So I mean you can, if you’re traveling in New Mexico and you’re not staying at our lodge and you’re not fishing with our guides, you can still ask us questions And we may know what bugs are working or where to go. John (47m 41s): There’s no like gatekeeping or holding stuff back. We’re pretty open about everything that’s happening. And I think the biggest thing for us is our truest positivity is that every year we have our clients bringing their other friends that probably have fished with some of the big names that you know, do what we do. But now they come and they fish with us because maybe they have more fun on our trips. Maybe it’s a little bit more relaxed. Maybe it’s because we actually have a human being on the trip with you. You know, it’s not like you book a trip with us and you get an email and never talk to us again. We have phones, we talk to people all the time. Our travel agent is 24 7. No matter where you are in the world, you can call them if you book with them, you can use them wherever you want. John (48m 26s): We help clients figure out trip insurance. So a lot of our big hunters, like if you’re spending 25 to 40 grand to go on a hunting trip, we have ways to ensure that trip that if something goes wrong on your connection flight or something goes wrong somewhere else. Oh right. You may be able to recoup some of that. We work with a lot of our clients on just getting, you know, global entry and TSA pre-check and clear like all the little things to make your travel life easier. We help out with that as much as Dave (48m 51s): We can’s. So you have a whole checklist of things that you guys are covering that the people probably aren’t even thinking about if they haven’t done a lot of this. John (48m 58s): Correct. I think, and I think that’s the biggest thing that kind of makes us slightly different is that people text me all day. People text our team all day, they email us, you can call us also, you know, if you wanna talk about someplace that we haven’t been before, we’re most likely trying to figure out how to go. The Mongolia was brought on by our clients that want to go there. So we just figured out how to make it happen and also wanted to be sure we could go see it firsthand. You know, other places that I’ve never been, like Galapagos Islands and Australia, New Zealand and all these other places like those would all be awesome. But we try to stay as busy as we can, keeping clients happy, where they want to go and what they want to fish for. John (49m 37s): Whether that’s, you know, trout in fresh water or salt water or the most exotic, craziest location you can think of it. Us putting people on the water and putting people in the field is the biggest thing for us. Dave (49m 51s): Yeah, that’s it. Nice. Well this is cool. I think we could probably leave it there. I was gonna do a quick little, you know, plays of the week for you. I always like my sports analogies to, you know, think of, I always think of like LeBron doing a highlight dunk in on ESPN SportsCenter for you. You, we talked about some big fish yeah. You know, on this, but do you have a, like a play of the week you think of like some story fishing story that you, you mentioned Pyramid, is there one that sticks out over, John (50m 17s): I mean as, as a, as a personal accomplishment in November I was in Argentina for three days to w work without Outfitters there and I was able to net 34 and a half, half pound Golden Dorado. Oh Dave (50m 28s): You did, you got a Dorado. John (50m 30s): Yeah, so I mean I, we’ve caught tons of Dorado and Big Dorado, but 34 and a half pounds biggest fish that they had caught in any of their, their whole year of 2024. So I mean it was, it’s unbelievable. It’s something that I, I love, I love the Golden Dorado in general just because of the veracity and, and how crazy they are. So I mean that, that was a cool play of the week for me that wow happened. I think the other one would be, you know, my hopes this year is to try to land a big tarpon so that yeah, Tarpon, Dave (50m 59s): That’s a big one. So you’re thinking not baby Tarpon, you’re, you’re thinking big Tarpon John (51m 4s): I’d like to be over 75 pounds. Dave (51m 6s): Yeah, over 75. I’m not even sure. I’m not the on where the, you know, transition is between baby and large, but it doesn’t matter. 75 pounds is huge. John (51m 15s): Yeah, I mean your, your juvie that are under 15 and then yeah, you know, normal size whatever, 15 to 50 or something. But yeah, I mean if I could have some sort of mega tarpon that, that’d be cool this year, but there’s not a ton of time to figure out when that’s gonna happen, so we’ll see. Dave (51m 30s): Yeah. Okay, well we’ll leave some of the other questions I have for you on the next one and we’ll send everybody out to moccasin fly club.com if they have questions for you. And this has been awesome, John. I appreciate you shedding light on your operation and I think there’s obviously we can hear just in this hour everything you have going and it’s pretty, pretty overwhelming to think about planning trips. I mean that’s the challenge, right? This is not easy. So I think it’s good to have you on here and we’ll, we’ll be in touch. John (51m 53s): Awesome man. Thanks a lot Dave and anybody that’s listening, if you guys have any questions or thoughts or need any info, feel free to reach out. We’re always available. Dave (52m 3s): Quick call to action today. If you’re interested in getting more information on Moccasin Fly Club, you can check in right now, moccasin fly club.com. They’ve got a wide range as we talked about today and we’re definitely gonna be putting some of these together. I know Redfish is a hot topic we’ve talked about and Colorado, a number of these different, so if you’re interested, check in with John and then check in with me and let me know if you wanna get this wrong, if you haven’t already, you, you can subscribe to this podcast, click that plus button, you’ll get the next episode delivered to your inbox and the next episode that’s coming up next week, you don’t wanna miss this. The Feather Thief is coming up Monday. This is a crazy story about fly tying and, and a heist that is kind of a crazy heist. Dave (52m 47s): We, we get into the feather, if you haven’t heard this story, classical salmon fly tires and the feathers they use. Stay tuned. Kirk Wallace Johnson is up Monday, the Feather Thief. All right, it’s getting late in the evening right now, so hope if you’re listening right till the end here. You have a great evening and if it’s morning, hope you’re having a great morning if it’s already afternoon for you, I hope you have a good day and look forward to checking out with you on the next episode. Talk to you then.