755 | Fly Fishing Travel Hacks with Jeff Ditsworth of Pescador on the Fly

Dave (2s): At times, fly fishing travel can be very challenging. Am I gonna miss the flight? Did my bags get to the next destination? Where’s my Rod? Today’s guest is a world traveler and created a business in fly fishing to help reduce the stress of traveling for fishing. By the end of this episode, you’re gonna have the top most important tips to assure you have less stress and more fun while traveling to your next destination This season, This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, And what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. How’s it going? I’m Dave host of the Wet Fly Swing podcast. I’ve been fly fishing since I was a little kid, grew up around a little fly shop and created one of the largest fly fishing podcasts out there. Dave (46s): Jeff Ditsworth, Pescador on the Fly Guru is gonna share what he’s learned in 25 years of traveling, whether that’s for business or with the family. He’s gonna get into a bunch of tips. You’re gonna find out today why and how most rods are broken. This might surprise you on these trips, and it’s not from a fish. What the number one mistake is to avoid when traveling. And then why he thinks match the hatch is, is overrated. We’re gonna get into this today. This is a good discussion. Match the hatch versus not. We’re gonna talk about that. Plus, you’re gonna find out how to get two rods in one Rod tube. If you haven’t thought about this in a while, we’re going to talk about that as well. He’s a master traveler here He is. Dave (1m 27s): Jeff Ditsworth from pescadoronthefly.com. How you doing, Jeff? I’m Jeff (1m 33s): Doing fantastic. How you doing today? Great, Dave (1m 35s): Great. Yeah, I’m excited for this one because travel, whenever I’m thinking about travel, that always gets me fired up. We’re traveling, you know, to a few places this year. We’re gonna be heading up to Alaska, heading to Newfoundland, some other places around the country. And, and we’re gonna be taking on some of your, your rods for sure. Your Rod, maybe rods. We might be be having multiple rods, but you have this six piece packable Rod. You have four piece, you kind of do everything in the fly Rod space. We’re gonna get an update on that today, but we’re also gonna get some tips on traveling while you’re on maybe a business trip or a family vacation. How do you sneak away? So, so first off, how are things going? What’s been going on since we chatted last? Maybe give us folks an up is 2025. What’s an update on Pescador on the fly right now? Jeff (2m 15s): Yeah, man, we’re, we’re right in mid-March, right in the swing of spring sale. So, you know, life is good. We’re, we’re, we’re talking to a ton of anglers that are getting ready for trips and like a lot of spring break people that are grabbing a packable Rod to take with ’em. So, yeah, I mean, all’s well we we’re getting ready to launch a new call it l Hfe V two. Hmm. Which is our mid-level line. We’re getting ready to launch that in April. We’re gonna start rolling those out. So I think right now we’re still doing our, our warehouse clearance sale right now on the L Hfe V one, but the new El Ray G six is out, which I know you’ve seen. Yeah. And we’re just having a ton of fun talking to a ton of anglers and just having a lot of fun with everybody. Jeff (2m 58s): That’s Dave (2m 58s): Awesome. Yeah, I think the, the one I have is the, the six piece, which is amazing because it packs up when you compare it to a four piece, it’s kind of crazy, right? Because the four piece Rod is, I’m not sure the length, but I think yours packs down into like, you know, almost 20 inches, 21 inches. Do you know the length on the, the distance? It’s Jeff (3m 14s): Like 20 inches. I think you have the five weight, so it’s a nine foot five weight and that that tube’s like 21 and a quarter or something like that. That’s Dave (3m 21s): Right. Yeah. And I, and I love the, just the quality, you know, I think even when you grab the tube, you know, you get the tube, everything is kind of high quality, the Rod, the components, everything there. But, but that’s the biggest thing. I think that sticks out. And we’re gonna talk about some travel tips today. You know, if you’re on that trip and you know, which a lot of us are, right? You’re traveling with the family, your own business, how do you sneak away? And, and we’re gonna get into that today. So, so maybe let’s, let’s just talk about that first for you. I mean, do you, do, is this, you know, something that you’ve been doing a while where you’re sneaking away and, and kind of you got some other trip going and you’re, you’re getting a couple hours here or there. How does that look for you? Jeff (3m 55s): Oh, for sure. I mean, I, I think it’s, this is where I find my zen right on the water. This is where I decompress. This is where I relax. And I’ve been notoriously traveling with a fly Rod. I’ve been traveling for business for about 25 years and I’ve been notorious to be bringing a, a fly Rod with me everywhere I go. And that’s, you know, the genesis of how we started the company. It’s just I couldn’t find something that I like fishing nice gear, right? And I’ve, I’ve always been fishing those high end rods and I couldn’t find anything that felt good to cast. So, you know, we went out and figured out if we could make ’em ourselves. So we got that going and I, here we are, man. You Dave (4m 31s): Did it. You did it. What is your kind of gear setup for, you’re, you’re doing this trip, talk about that, not only the Rod, but talk about the Rod, but also the other gear, the bags. Like how do you, how are you packing compact? Do you have this thing where it’s like all fits down into a little, little nap sack or how do you do it? Yeah, Jeff (4m 47s): So you know, every trip’s different, right? So I would say if, if I’m going on a business trip, unless I’m going somewhere ridiculous where I’m gonna need waiters and boots, I’m generally probably not bringing waiters and boots. In the summer it’s a little bit different ’cause you could do a little wet weighting. That’s great. I’ve got, you know, some like water shoes type thing. But when I’m just thinking about like not waiters and boots, if I’m going on a business trip and I’m just gonna go stand next to the river or stand next to a lake or whatever, I’m just, I’m thinking Rod reel, super small pack. Yeah. So oddly enough I’ve actually got the fly Rod tube that you have. Yeah. If you roll your Rod up really, really gently, you can actually get two rods in that tube. Jeff (5m 31s): Oh wow. So little pro tip on the l ray series. Dave (5m 34s): Can you get it with two Rod ca sleeves or is it with the sleeves or? No. Jeff (5m 39s): So basically what would happen is it, I just take the sleeve out of the other tube and I pack ’em in together. Dave (5m 44s): Oh. Together. So you can put two rods in one sleeve. Jeff (5m 47s): We also sell some other packable tubes where you can get like three rods, two or three rods in them. Just, they’re just like a little bit wider. Right. So that’s, that’s just kind of a, just to make it easy to make sure that you’re bringing what you, what you want with you. ’cause I generally bring a couple rods with me, even if it’s just a business trip. But if I can get ’em both in a, in a pretty tight tube, that’s pretty sweet. Dave (6m 8s): That is, that’s right. There is the first tip of the game, you know, I’m kind of thinking about. Right. Okay. That’s a big one because I never thought you could even do that. I mean, but you, you can fit, so in that Rod case, two of your rods, you can get in there and probably putting the handle down the bottom for one and the handle at the top for the other sort of thing. Jeff (6m 23s): Correct. Correct. Like I said, If you, If you pack it carefully, you’ll get ’em in there. And I, I’ve traveled with that one where I got my, my eight and a half foot four weight, and then the nine foot five weight I put ’em in there. And I, you might have an issue in the, in the l ray carbon tube, if you’re bringing the seven weight, it’s got the fighting butt little bit bigger. But again, we do sell kind of like a, it’s a Corda tube. That’s not carbon, but I mean, if you’re just looking for, for something for simplicity, but I mean, they’re, they’re cheap. So it’s just a fun way to go. Yeah. But yeah, I, I like, I like to bring two generally just ’cause you, like, you never know. And I love fishing streamers a lot, so, and I love to do that with like a seven weight or eight weight or something like that. So that’s generally something that I’m, I like to bring, or especially on, maybe I’m going down south and I’m gonna be throwing like a big streamer type thing for bass or that kind of thing. Jeff (7m 10s): That’s, you know, I’m usually using a seven or eight way for that. But generally speaking, I’m going as tight as possible and I wanna make sure it goes in my carry on. I wanna make sure it’s not sticking out. I wanna make sure it’s something that kind of melts into the rest of your luggage, If you will. So you don’t really know, know what’s with you. So generally, you know, I got a very, very small pack. We make one that’s called the Versa Pack and it’s super small and you got your, your fly boxes in there. You got your leaders, your tip it all your, all your gear that you’re generally gonna need in a very, very tight pack. That fish is amazing. So it’s a perfect day pack. So I’m bringing that, I’m bringing a reel, bringing the Rod rods, you know, that kind of thing. Jeff (7m 52s): That’s probably about it. Yeah. There’s a hundred packs on the market and we, we make packs. Everybody makes packs. But If you, you have a pack and you can get your reel or reels in there and a few fly boxes you don’t need to bring, you know, sometimes I’m out on the water and I see a guy that has something that looks like he’s gonna climb Everest on the back. Right. Dave (8m 9s): I Jeff (8m 9s): Know he’s walking 30 feet to his car and that, that cracks me up a little bit. But hey man, two each of their own. Right? Dave (8m 14s): Yeah, definitely. No, I, I know I see those. I, I’ve always been, I think we might talked this on the last one. I’m, I’m old school. I’m like the old guy now, you know, I guess I am old, but it’s, I used to love the vest. Yeah, man. Just the fly fishing vest. I love that thing. And I’ve gone away from it just ’cause you don’t really see ’em. I guess they’re still out there, but I’ve gone to the sling and the slings are cool too, you know, they’re different. But then also I see what you’re talking about. The ones where you got these, I don’t know what you call ’em, but there’s a big pack on the front, big pack on back and it looks weird. Right? It looks weird. And I guess it is comfortable though, I guess If you want all that gear, it, it’s a good thing to hold all your gear, right? Jeff (8m 46s): Yeah, no, I mean I, I like, again, if you’re gonna be bringing in like a bunch of gear, just, you know, make sure you’re comfortable. We make the lumbar pack, the river vault, which is that waterproof pack that we just launched a couple months ago. And I mean, that’s actually not a bad travel pack because it’s not one of those huge packs. Dave (9m 3s): What does that fit, what is the ri river vault? And I’m looking at it now, what do you fit in that waterproof bag? Is that kind of like, you could fit a lot of stuff or is it a little on the smaller side? For me Jeff (9m 11s): It’s a lot, but for other guys it’s probably not enough. I like it because it has the water bottle holder on it and like, if you’re hiking in somewhere, but, so if I’m going somewhere and I have room for that, I’m actually bringing my fly boxes and all the gear inside of that and then I can keep all my reel. Like if I’m bringing two reels to write in there, I can stick, you know, hats, gloves, jackets, you know, whatever inside of that. Then all my fly fishing stuff’s kinda like your go pack, right? That thing’s just ready to go and it actually has straps on it to attach your Rod tube. So it’s, it’s, it’s a pretty cool setup. And I think generally if, If you got room, that’s a great way to go. Just ’cause then you got everything and then you got room for like a lunch or something like that when you’re out in the water. Jeff (9m 56s): But, you know, it all depends. I try to be a minimalist when I’m traveling for this kind of thing because I really don’t need the kitchen sink if I’m just gonna go fish for an hour, you know, at the end of the day twice I wanna bring what I wanna bring, fly box leader, little bit of tbit, few weights, you know, that’s it. Dave (10m 14s): Yeah. Basics because Jeff (10m 15s): I’m not, I don’t wanna focus on that on a business trip or a family vacation. I wanna, you know, I think about when I’m, you know, our kids were younger and we were going on spring break down to like Mexico or something like that. I’m an early riser, so generally speaking, you know, If you go to a all-inclusive resort south of Cancun or whatever, the beach in the morning is pretty darn empty. And generally speaking, the water’s not rolling crazy yet. The wind hasn’t picked up yet down in there. So I would probably walk the beach by myself listening to a podcast or whatever, or just listening to the ocean and just walk in there with an eight weight or a seven weight just looking for anything. And I’m, you know, you’re casting this stuff, you could, you could find all kinds of stuff doing that in the morning. Jeff (10m 58s): So that’s my, you know, when I’m doing a family vacation kind of thing. And that’s my me time. ’cause the family’s still asleep. So Dave (11m 5s): That’s another good tip. Right? You’re on the family vacation now. Not the business trip, but the family vacation. Yeah. So one big one would be, yeah, you gotta find your time. So the mornings are a good time. And actually that’s the same for me too. The family a lot of times sleeps in, get out there in the morning, you Jeff (11m 18s): Know, generally speaking. And I, and I think for those beach vacations, that’s when the beach isn’t crazy busy because the last thing you want to do is be swinging a salt water fly when there’s 400 people standing behind you on a beach. Right. That’s a bad recipe. Dave (11m 30s): Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. And, and then on the river vault, which I love, I mean this thing’s, we’ll, we’ll put a link in the show notes to this on that. Can you get a net? I see in one of your photos there’s a net. Does that slide in between or is there like a holder for the net on that? Yep, Jeff (11m 42s): Little holster on the back for the net. Dave (11m 43s): Oh, cool. There is, yep. Amazing. Okay, so I, I’m looking at it now. So yeah, you can pretty much get everything. So this is something, yeah, we’re gonna, we’re gonna have to follow up because I haven’t seen this thing in detail. So this looks like an amazing pack. And it’s waterproof, so that’s another big thing. A hundred percent waterproof. Jeff (11m 58s): Exactly. It’s, you know, our business model going direct to the angler. We can bring a pretty incredible price on this too. So If you look at some other similar packs in the market, we’re coming in way lower on that, which is pretty fun. So great, great value for the anglers. Dave (12m 11s): Perfect. So staying on the gear, so we’ve got basically now the pack, you know, the basics to get in there, the fly box, the Rod, anything else on the travel stuff that you’re, when you’re thinking about this, that you’re, you have that’s connected to all this Jeff (12m 25s): Seasonality? I mean, obviously it depends, like if you’re heading up in the mountains in the winter or whatever, you gotta be dressing with some, some extra clothes. So I love those little kinda like puff jackets from Patagonia. It’s just what I own right now. And they, they pack up so tight and a little package and you can just smash those things into your, into your luggage. So making sure you’re warm is obviously super important. Make sure you got a good spot for your, your polarized sunglasses. ’cause that’s, that’s kind of a must travel for me anyway. I think for most, most people. Definitely. And then, you know, for, you mentioned being old earlier, now I gotta bring cheaters with me. Yeah. So I can tie my, tie my 20 like size 20 flies on, otherwise I’m in trouble. Yeah, Dave (13m 3s): That’s right. Yeah. You got your cheaters. Okay. So that, and that’s pretty much, I mean, I guess that’s the idea, is that going minimalist, right? Like you don’t need Yeah, no waiters, no boots. Jeff (13m 12s): You don’t need everything. And again, you’re not gonna go out and on the water for 12 hours a day for five days in a row. This is bonus time, man. And you don’t need all that stuff. Just bring a good assortment of flies. Have Dave (13m 22s): You ever been out there in a suit fishing? I’m just, this is kinda a random que you know, but is that you? Jeff (13m 27s): Oddly enough, I, I think I do remember bringing some guys out for drinks somewhere and there was a really cool looking pond in the parking lot and I had stuff in the back of my rental car. Nice. So we, we did a, we did a quick impromptu fly casting lesson and caught a few bass at a place before, so Yep. Obviously there you go. I’ve done that. We wear a lot less, less ties than we used to 20 years ago, but, right. But yeah, I’ve done it, man. Yep. Dave (13m 49s): So you’ve done it. Awesome. So you’ve done the suit. That’s perfect. Okay. But, but that’s it. Well let’s go on that. So you talk about the pond in the back. So how do you go about, you’re going to a new place, you know, what’s your strategy to figure out where you’re gonna be fishing? You know, what, what do you do there? Well, Jeff (14m 1s): So it’s fun ’cause a lot of the places I would go, I would be going like repeatedly. For example, I used to, I used to work for a company that was out in, out in Connecticut like Hartford, Connecticut. So you just, you go online, do a little bit of research and you find out that you got the Farmington River right there that, you know, if you’re from there, you might’ve just went you or something like that a little bit. But I mean, there are trout in the thing and you know, it’s, it’s, they’ll, they’ll eat. So I would just bring my gear with me and slip out in the morning before, before meetings or after the deal. So I think now with, you know, there’s, there’s some pretty sweet apps that can help you, help you find, and I’m, I’m not an expert of these, but I’ve just, I’ve talked to a handful of these guys that are building these apps that, that help, you know, find, find good, good places and give good feedback on, you know, what to fish for. Jeff (14m 48s): But I mean, Google Maps does so much for you because you can say, okay, here’s my hotel, or you know, just the internet. There’s plenty of research out there. Dave (14m 56s): Yeah, there is, there’s lots. Yeah, there’s tons of resources. And one thing that we’ve been utilizing a lot is trout routes. I think that’s, you know, there’s a couple of great mappings, onyx, you know. Yeah. But just having the land, the land ownership stuff is also key. That’s Jeff (15m 8s): A great app. And I think I, I haven’t used it a ton, but I’ve talked to a lot of guys that love it. And yeah, I think that’s a really good tip in of itself too. Just do a little bit of research beforehand. And I mean, half of like, when you go to a new place and you’re gonna explore brand new water, I mean, that’s kind of a big chunk of the fun to me. Like I wanna have a good chance of success. And I think once you fly fish long enough, you kind of see the area, you think about it, you’re like, yeah, that looks pretty fishy. I I’m pretty sure I can get into that. Yeah. Dave (15m 37s): Anywhere. I think that’s what’s cool about it is that, and we’ve done the talked about this on recent episodes with some of the team USA stuff. Is that, I mean, yeah. Anywhere, you know, you can these days catch fish anywhere. Right? For sure. Like you said, whether it’s a pond of, you know, warm water, fish, whatever. I did want to give a shout out. We had a episode, it was episode 4 24, the French Fly Fisherman. So we talked about the Farmington River. We have a whole episode on that. And nice Antoine, he’s the French fly fisherman. He’s, we talked to Euro Nipping and stuff like that. But yeah, I think the Farmington is, is a, definitely a destination out there for sure. Jeff (16m 8s): Yeah. I mean I would, I would catch fish every time I was there, so it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s awesome. Dave (16m 14s): Pescador on the fly offers a full range of fly fishing gear for any angler at any budget with premium rods delivered directly to you. The L ray G six is the most packable high performance fly Rod on the market, performing like a four piece Rod, but with unmatched portability in six pieces. And you can get 10% off your next order right now If you use the code wet fly swing at pescador on the fly dot com. Never fly without your G six. Discover the L race series and more at pescador on the fly dot com. Well, what about on, so we’re talking now, we’re getting into the vacation. What are a couple of trips or vacations you think you’ve done in the past maybe that have been either business or, or family that have really worked out well for this? Dave (16m 56s): Is there, and other than the Farmington? You Jeff (16m 57s): Know, I, I’ve got a bunch of ’em. Yeah. Just ’cause I’ve, I’ve been bringing a fly Rod with me everywhere I go, you know, with our, our new L ray series. Like, I kinda laugh about it ’cause like it’s a tongue in cheek tagline, but I always say never fly without your G six because I never go somewhere without one anymore. It’s been pretty fun. I would say that probably some of the coolest ones have been those little beach trips down in Mexico or even Florida or if you’re, you’re in the Keys or whatever, but Mexico and Riviera May area Cancun or whatever. I’ve gotten into five to 10 pound jacks. Hmm. Just randomly cruising the beach, Pompano bonefish snapper, you whatever. But just out there cruising by myself and looking for tails and just see seeing something and throwing a little shrimp fly right in front of ’em. Jeff (17m 44s): And you know, it’s on. I’ve, I’ve had some shots at some decent tarpon really Dave (17m 48s): Off the beach. Jeff (17m 49s): Yeah. It is just you, you never know what you’re gonna find down there. ’cause those, this is just a very fishy area and especially when there’s nobody pounding on the water. This, this stuff kind of comes in and is, is cruising a little bit. So I’ve caught some pretty cool fish just doing that like totally by myself out there. Plenty of, you know, trout situations too. Like our daughter lives in Missoula, Montana, so we go out there a lot and you know, we, we generally stay at a double tree, which is right on the Clark Fork River. And every day I’m out a couple times for an hour just casting a little bit out there. It’s super, super nice. I do have a couple trips this summer that, that should be interesting. So my wife’s got a big birthday and we’re actually gonna go to Austria. Jeff (18m 30s): Oh wow. So I’m doing some research now to figure out exactly as we’re cruising through Austria. ’cause there’s some ridiculously good fly fishing over there. So Right. Austria, Dave (18m 40s): I’m Jeff (18m 40s): Super excited to do that and like talk about, like, I don’t want to pack on a fly fishing trip on my wife’s birthday trip. Right. Yeah. So you gotta be sensitive to that. So, you know, l ray G six will be in there and there’ll be two of ’em with me and there’ll be opportunities. I just dunno exactly where they, when they are or where they are. But I’ll definitely fish. Dave (18m 57s): Amazing. Then there’s a good example. Yeah. You’re going international and you can easily, you know, have issues with the rods, the, you’re gonna throw ’em in your pack and nobody will even know they’re there. Right. Jeff (19m 6s): It’s kind of strange. So after the first podcast episode we, we recorded together, I got a call from a guy who listened to the episode and he just got back from The Bahamas and he had his, his Rod case that he always carries on with his four piece rods. And he said that the airline would not let him carry it on. Right. And I’ve flown the four piece rods all over the place and I’ve never had an airline tell me I couldn’t do it. But I’ve talked to probably a dozen people in the last 12 months that have said some random international thing. Like, oh, even Mexico was one of them on the list too. They said, yeah, you’re, you’re not, you’re not carrying that on. Dave (19m 43s): I heard that. Yeah. Jeff (19m 44s): And I’ve never encountered it, but I think it’s, it’s starting to become real, especially when you get international that you know, these, these aren’t our rules anymore and they make their own rules and the flight attendants or the gate agents can make their own rules too. They’re like, nah, I don’t like that thing. He, he said that they checked his bag and they lost it. Wow. Which is almost impressive that they lost it from the gate to the plane. But you know, what, what are you gonna do? And he said he, he fished with, you know, a couple rods from the lodge that were just completely beneath his level of rods for three days until they, they brought it over to the lodge. And so he, he picked up a couple travel rods, just says, listen, I’m, I’m gonna have these things in my carry on every single one of these trips from now on. Dave (20m 25s): That’s it. I think that that’s probably the biggest tip of, of, you know, today is that, and I’ve heard that too, that I think Canada, I think I’ve heard some people having issues with that as well. So, so yeah, you, you can pretty much just avoid all that by putting your G six, the six piece along with your reel and everything really. Your whole thing could go into your, your pack. You know, nobody even know you’re fly fishing. Right. Jeff (20m 46s): No, for sure. Yeah. I mean I, I’ve never checked flies before, even though, you know, every once in a while I have people ask me if they’ll allow you to take a tarp and fly on and I’ve never had an issue, but, you know. Oh Dave (20m 56s): Yeah. Yeah. How does That work when you’re on the, so are you bringing your flies on the carry-on? Jeff (21m 0s): I generally do. Yeah. I think most people do. ’cause I mean, you start looking at some of those fly boxes and you start adding up your investment in those things and all of a sudden you’re like, damn, that’s a chunk of chunk of money. I’d prefer not to have that in my checked bag that may or may not get rifled through. Dave (21m 15s): Oh, exactly. So have you ever had any issues with that one, with the carry-on the flies when they see the flies and like, hey, this is a weapon sort of thing? Jeff (21m 21s): No, I’ve had a few TSA agents look at me kind of sideways every once in a while and then you give a little, little bit of education and usually they smile and I think most of ’em have seen it before. I like, again, I’ve never had an issue, but you never know these days. But I, I generally carry ’em on. Dave (21m 36s): Yeah, you carry ’em on. Okay. Well and before we get to this, I wanna ask you some TSA kind of tips or whatever, but Austria, so I guess this, we’re talking Alps, right? Are you thinking you might not be able to get out to the big, you know, on your trip, but that’s what I think it’s known for. Is that something you’re looking into? Jeff (21m 51s): We are gonna fish one day, so we’re gonna go out and get a guide and just go out for, for one day. So on a trip like that I’m planning on like, you know, borrowing waiters from the guide versus bringing my own to travel on trains and planes and all that stuff all through Europe. But that’s my plan. So it’s gonna be Rod reel, handful of flies, basically everything I would need to be able to catch fish on my own Yep. Without waiting. Right. And then we’ll get into it and I’ll, I’ll fish the same rods obviously out there ’cause I’ve fished these G six all over the place and you, you can’t even tell the difference between that and a four section Rod. So they’re, they’re great. So I don’t have an issue with that. Dave (22m 29s): And is that mainly because the technology, and that’s what I’ve noticed too, because I’ve got the six piece and Yeah, you can’t tell the difference at all is it, has the tech just what’s changed? Because we’ve talked about that before on here, like the history, just the ferals. I think one of the greens invented the feral back in the day. Right. But talk about that. Why is the six piece now at the same level as a four piece? Jeff (22m 48s): I’d go out there and say not all six pieces are at that level. Yeah. Dave (22m 51s): Right. Jeff (22m 52s): Gotcha. And so our recent gear review and Trout magazine, they just said, Hey, this is different than what was out there before. So I think it’s better blanks, but it’s also better ferals. I would also say we’ve, we’ve taken the investment, we’ve gone a little bit further than the other companies have in the past because most companies in the past have never focused on it. So when they’re building these rods that are building ’em with subpar components, from what I’ve seen, and that’s the exact thing I felt when I was using these packable rods from yesteryear, If you will, they were used with entry level components because they didn’t wanna put a lot of money into it because it wasn’t a ridiculously popular thing. Jeff (23m 32s): Right? Yeah. So I kind of flipped it on its head and said, listen, I wanna invest and put the best blank, the best ferals the best, you know, guides and really just do this right in a broad factory that’s consistently making thousand dollar fly rods from the big brands. And you know, by going directly to the angler, we’re gonna, we’re gonna bring this to the market at five, 600 bucks. So it’s really intentionally building a better packable fly Rod is I think why it’s different versus, well I don’t know how, if this is gonna be a tiny section of their sales, they’re not gonna invest the money into making it great. We went the opposite direction and I told you earlier Yeah. Jeff (24m 13s): That as far as six section four section rods go, we probably sell about an equal amount because you know, you get out there and I’m gonna go to Montana at the end of of April and I’m gonna be bringing four section rods with me. I’m gonna be bringing six section rods too, just kind of for backup. So if I’m gonna fish for three days in a row, I’m probably just gonna bring the four section rods. They’re easy to travel with when you’re bringing ’em all together. But I’m a backup Rod guy. So like if I wanna bring a backup Rod with me, generally speaking, I’m, I’m bringing a six section. Dave (24m 43s): Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That’s the thing that, so that’s, I’m glad you made that point is that you’re not just the, the six piece, six section guy. You’ve got the four piece and is that, are those the main, I mean, ’cause remember when there used to be the three piece too, and there’s obviously two pieces, but are there any three pieces out there still? I Jeff (24m 59s): Don’t know if there’s three piece anymore. There’s a, there’s a few two piece. And I actually talked to a guy the other day that was, was like, listen man, I take my Rod, I fish two piece rods, I take it from my truck and I go to the river and I fish. He’s like, I don’t need a six section Rod. And I, and I, I said, I’m not gonna debate you on that one, man. You, you sound like you’re set, you got, you got all your gear that works perfect for you. Dave (25m 20s): Exactly. Jeff (25m 21s): I think, you know, 20 years ago a two section Rod was, was way better than a four section Rod. Right. But I think as technology has made the pharaohs better and the blanks better and the production better, a four section Rod is pretty darn comparable to a two section Rod. You know, and I don’t make two section rods. I have a lot of guys kind of complain about that, but it’s like, hey, there’s other guys making good two section rods. That’s not my niche. I’m not all things. No. Dave (25m 46s): Right. And that’s such a small niche. I mean, I would say in the fly fishing industry of people who want the two section, I would guess it’s like 10% or less. Right? Jeff (25m 55s): It’s limited. And I think a lot of it is just based on, you know, what they’re used to and everything. And there’s nothing wrong with that. I just, I think for, for a fly Rod company to make a two section Rod, the, the transportation costs to get it from the factory to their warehouse is way higher. The shipping cost is way higher, so you get one, you’re gonna pay for it. And I really don’t think you’re gonna see too much of a difference between that and a, and a really nice four section Rod. But I mean, if, If you like two section rods, man, fish ’em, I’m all for it. Dave (26m 24s): Nice. Well, as we’re talking about the rods, I want to, we’re gonna be having, and we’ll put a link out to a video we’re gonna do, we’re, we’re kind of kicking off our YouTube channel and it’s been kind of fun. So we’re gonna be doing a review, well, it’s more an unboxing of, you know, just so people can see what this Rod looks like. So we’ll put a link in the show notes to that video. But in that, I wanna talk about some, you know, some of the benefits. So what would be a top like maybe three benefits of that G six, the six piece Rod that you would say would be top obviously maybe just what, what would you say if I was going to, you know, talk about those, what would those three be? Jeff (26m 57s): I’d say the, the, the easy transportation of it to get it to and from where you’re going and really not even know it. So, you know, If you, if you’re gonna be hiking someplace and you’re throwing all your gear in a backpack, not being the guy that’s like ducking underneath trees the entire time. Like, it, it’s, it’s just way more convenient for transportation. Dave (27m 18s): Oh. So that’s another one. I’m glad you went down this ’cause I wasn’t thinking about that, but, so you’ve got the easy transport really, which is broad flying, but also yeah, the backpacking. I mean, I remember those days with the four piece or even the two piece. I remember doing that too, where we’re backpacking in and you’re ducking under branches and getting caught and falling down. So that’s one big, another big thing. So the backpacking is another part of this? Yeah, Jeff (27m 39s): I mean I, I’m, I’m gonna nail with nail it with three things. It’s the flying, the backpacking, and then the backup Rod is what I do. And, and like the backup Rod is two different things. Right? So I think about bringing a backup Rod when I’m actually flying somewhere with the specific purpose of fly fishing. I mean, I don’t break a lot of rods, but I know some people that generally, you know, whether it be a car door or God forbid the, the infamous ceiling fan down in, down in the Oh wow. In the flats. That’s the one that gets people a decent amount. Oh Dave (28m 6s): Dang. That’s bad. Jeff (28m 7s): I talked to just about everybody that breaks a Rod from our company, so I hear a lot of stories. Yeah. But it’s yeah, cardo and, and ceiling fans prior to the top two. Oh Dave (28m 14s): Man, that’s crazy. Jeff (28m 15s): Fallings another one too. It’s, it’s just kind of, you never know what’s gonna happen, but having that backup Rod, but think about the combination of a backup Rod and then the backpacking Rod. So every once in a while you’re gonna go out and you’re gonna hike a mile or two to get to some pretty sweet water and you know, you’re, you’re gonna set up your Rod at the truck and you’re gonna, you’re gonna be hiking in and you’re walking there with your Rod and that’s all good. Well, I’m not gonna hike two miles with one Rod because if something happens, or think about it this way, you get out there in the water, you just hike two miles, you’re nipping, you’re doing your normal, normal routine, and then all of a sudden you’re looking around and there’s a ridiculous hatch and you wanna switch over and do dry fly. Well, I mean, you can clearly do that with a, with normal, you know, nine foot, five weight, six weight, whatever you want. Jeff (29m 1s): I love dry fly fishing with an eight and a half foot four weight. So think about l ray, G six in the tube attached to the pack. I’ve got a dry fly Rod with me at all times. I can set both up while I’m back there and then I can nm or I can go to the dry fly Rod. Or like I mentioned earlier, with me being kind of a streamer nut, I’m not walking two miles into trout territory without a streamer Rod. So I’m gonna have my seven way with me and it’s gonna be super compact. Then I’m even gonna know I’m gonna have it and all of a sudden I’m gonna find this new water that has this giant pool and I’m gonna wanna swing a giant streamer through this thing and find the biggest fish in the water. So I, I’m generally bringing more than one Rod out there on those hikes. Jeff (29m 41s): You know what I mean? Yeah. Dave (29m 42s): What about kind of common mistakes if people make, when they’re trying to put together one of these either family vacation or business trip, you know, where you do a fishing trip along the way? Jeff (29m 52s): I think the biggest mistake is not bringing a fly Rod. Yeah. And honestly, that, that’s huge because how many of us are like, ah, it’s a pain. I’m, I’m not gonna do it. Right? Yep. And then you get there and you look out there and you find this water and you instantly regret it. Yeah. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve done that, but never again. Right. So not bringing a Rod with you on these trips, I think is probably the biggest mistake. I’d say that the second biggest mistake that I think of is not really having all your stuff organized. I mean, it’s kinda like the, the old adage that, you know, I’m gonna start running. So the first thing you do is you’re gonna set out your clothes in the morning and make sure that my clothes and shoes are ready to go. Jeff (30m 34s): So I’m gonna stumble into ’em and I’m not gonna forget, just have your little go pack ready to go that’s got your fly box, your general assortment of flies and yeah, you, you may swap out flies. ’cause okay, this, this is a trip. Like say for example, I’m gonna go down to, to Phoenix for either a family trip or like a little business trip. Well, Phoenix is not known for their fly fishing, but I’ve caught plenty of bass and ponds around Phoenix and they’re also known for these canals that have ridiculously nice carp. So having your carp fly box, you know, and be like, all right, I’m going to Phoenix. I’m bringing carp gear. And like that is so fun. I don’t know that I’m kind of a, a carp nerd. Like I Oh nice. Jeff (31m 14s): Love fly fishing for carp. There’s such a blast. And they’re almost everywhere. So do a little research. There’s nerds like me that’ll will punch you in the right direction if they know the area. Dave (31m 24s): There you go. Okay. So, and again, I love to get a shout out on the podcast. So episode 3 71, urban Carp on the Fly with, with Chris Bearer. He’s from one of the fly shops out there in, in Phoenix. So we’ll put that link out there. Good. So organize is another big thing of it, but I love the number one mistake. Yeah. Just going out and thinking you’re not gonna need your Rod. And then you get there and you’re like, oh dang. Jeff (31m 45s): Yep. Dave (31m 45s): Good. Okay. And then like trips wise, you’ve talked about a couple of ’em. I mean, I think some of the big things are, yeah, reducing the size. Anything else on the travel stuff, the travel gear, the travel tips that you would give people just to, you know, a little nugget to help ’em on that next trip? Jeff (32m 1s): I would probably check local before you go out. Like, I’ve called fly shops all the time and generally I’ll come in and pick up some flies or a shirt or a hat or something like that as a thank you for the information. I mean, I always, I always, I, I had this debate, which is kind of funny all the time where since we’re direct to the angler and we don’t sell through the fly shops, I have a lot of people think I’m anti fly shop, but oh right. I spend a lot of money in fly shops on guides and just, just random other gear. I love fly shops and always will. So I, I think they’re a great source of information and I don’t think it’s cool to just like, use ’em for their information and not buy anything from ’em. So I think think if you’re going to someplace that actually has fly shops and not every place does, that’s a great place to check for a little bit of intel. Jeff (32m 46s): And you might get some good tips. And I would also say that if, if there’s a place that you’re traveling to for business a lot that’s kind of like a trout area where you, you may have a fly shop, I would 100% go in there and hire a guide for an afternoon or something like that and just get to know these guys a little bit. Support ’em, you’re gonna learn something. I don’t care how good of an angler you are, you’re gonna learn something just about every time you hire somebody to, to take you out. Maybe you find a new spot or two, you know, whatever it is, that’s gold. If you’re gonna be traveling to a place three, four times a year and then, you know, you can go out and DIY all on your own after that. But that’s, that’s I think pretty, a huge tip is that there’s some great local intel out there for some guys. Jeff (33m 29s): And you’re probably gonna meet, meet somebody. Pretty cool. Dave (33m 34s): Not many companies are building their own gear these days, but Intrepid Camp Gear is changing that based in Boulder, Colorado Intrepid designs and manufactures some of the most rugged, technically advanced rooftop tents and aluminum cargo cases on the market. Their gear is built in-house with patented designs that stand up to the elements and the miles. Whether you’re chasing elk deep in the back country hunting for fresh powder or heading out for your next fly fishing trip. And Trepid gives you the confidence to go further. 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Dave (34m 59s): So they’re made to last season after season. You can check out the full swift current lineup right now@wetflyswing.com slash swift current or stop by your local shop. That’s Swift current, S-W-I-F-T-C-U-R-R-E-N-T wetly swing.com/swift current. Go check it out now. Well let, let’s start to take it out here slowly with our, this is kind of our conservation shout out. We always love giving a shout out to that. And as we go, we might have some other random tips that pop up here. But we’ve got, and I, and I know you know Kirk, Kirk Dieter, right? With Tu Yeah. Are, yeah, you’re familiar. We have him coming up. Dave (35m 39s): We’ve been talking and we’re gonna have a podcast episode coming up with him soon. I’m excited ’cause his name has been on my list for a long time. But maybe talk about that real quick on Kirk, maybe, maybe this is higher level stuff, but do you know his role, what’s his connection to Trout Unlimited and then what your thoughts are on Tu? ’cause you have a connection there with them, right? Jeff (35m 56s): Yeah, for sure. So he’s their, you know, chief editor Oh, okay. Of the Trout magazine and he’s just, he’s really involved. He’s in, you know, advertising, that type of thing. And like before we spent any money on advertising, the very first money we spent was joining Tu as a business member and then buying a ridiculously tiny ad in Trout magazine. The very first thing we did, I contacted these guys and said, listen, I’m gonna give a portion of of our sales to Trout Unlimited because you’re doing what I would love to do and I don’t see any reason for me to try to do something extra. I’m just gonna support them. So from the beginning of our inception, that’s been something we’ve been doing and you know, we, we’ve been with him ever since, Kirk and I, he, he’s a great dude. Jeff (36m 37s): He, he actually just did a, did a review of the, the G six. Oh nice. And yeah, I think so when you talk to him, he’ll probably have some familiarity, but yeah, great guy. Ridiculously knowledgeable. Yeah, Dave (36m 51s): That’s perfect. We’ll get a link out there to that review. I haven’t seen that yet, so I’m excited to get that in. Oh, cool. So, and what would be the, if, if we have Kirk on what would be, obviously there’s so many things we could talk to him about. What would be one thing you would love to hear him go deeper into? Jeff (37m 5s): I think there’s, there’s a handful of things. I mean obviously those, those guys are doing great work to promote some cool stuff. They’ve been doing a bunch of work and not, not as the magazine, but as Tr Unlimited the organization. He’s obviously got a lot of involvement in it. We’ve been kind of spearheading some of those dam removals out west. Dave (37m 21s): Oh, that’s right. Which Jeff (37m 22s): Is pretty cool. And I, I think you’re starting to see some, some salmon enter some places that haven’t, haven’t been there in 50 years, which is kind of cool to see it working. They do some pretty cool work behind the scenes. I think as far as conservation goes, probably the biggest thing we did is probably about five years ago we started building stream cleanup bags in partnership with Trodden Unlimited. So everybody that buys a combo from us, we put one in free and then coincidentally, we, we have it on our website, I have the code for a free one. So If you just want to get a a trout hero bag, there’s a code on it for a free one, just pay shipping. But we send out thousands of those to Trout Unlimited events and that kind of thing at our cost just to promote stream cleanup. Jeff (38m 4s): And this wasn’t necessarily in partnership with him, but it was in partnership with Trout Unlimited. I’m a big believer in very, very small things repeated over time, ended up to huge results. I love big stream cleanups. Those are great. But I think that if every single time an angler goes out on the water and brings back a bag of trash, that impact to cleanup of our beautiful waterways is gonna be way bigger than these one or two time a year big stream cleanups. Every single time we’re out, out, bring out a bag of trash. And it’s sad, but you can do it because there’s that much trash out there. Right. So I promote that pretty heavily just ’cause we’re all there. Jeff (38m 46s): We all love the outdoors and we all want to try to make a little bit of difference and it, it takes like no effort. Love Dave (38m 51s): That. Love that. Yeah. I, one of Atomic Habits, James Clear that book is one that I definitely, I’m glad you mentioned the habits. Yep. ’cause that daily habit stuff is real. Jeff (39m 1s): We had, we had James out, I met him. Oh, you did? Last year. Oh wow. Super good dude. Not for this business. A different business I’m involved in, but Oh yeah, a hundred percent awesome guy. Great book. I, I highly recommend everybody listening like picks that one up and does a listen or reads it. It’s great. Great stuff. Dave (39m 18s): Amazing. Okay. And so a couple random ones here and then we, we’ll take it out on this one today. So first random one of the days. So phishing, you know, it sounds like you’re just like me and a lot of us listening now, we’re just kind of, fishing is our thing right. Fly fishing. But if, if fly fishing disappeared, how would you fill that space? What, what would you be doing with your time? Jeff (39m 39s): You know, honestly, I’d probably do, I have to have something on the water. Right? Right. So I’d, I’d probably become like a, like a kayaker of some sort of, all of a sudden I couldn’t fly fish. Right. You know what Dave (39m 48s): I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Would that be, would that be like extreme kayaking, like whitewater, would that be more like river kayaking or, or Jeff (39m 55s): I would say more peaceful. More peaceful. I, I, we, we have a, we have one of those hydro rowers that’s kinda like a Peloton Oh yeah. For rowing. Sure. And every morning I hit that thing and I just do what, what they call like a journey row. And all it is is like a scenic pretty place. And it’s just like, you like rowing. And so it’s a great little exercise, full body workout. But, but also I’m sitting there looking at water, which makes me, makes me happy. That’s cool. For some reason. So like, if I had to pick something that I was gonna do, I’d probably need it to have something to do with water. I have other hobbies. I play a ton of tennis, but that doesn’t replace my water. Dave (40m 29s): Have you tried pickleball yet? Jeff (40m 31s): You know, it’s funny, every time I mention tennis, somebody always brings up pickleball. That’s right. And I’ve tried it. Yeah. But it’s not my thing. Dave (40m 37s): Yeah. I, I saw it just today. I was going by a place that I’ve been by many times and it used to be like a mark, a big store, and I’m like, wow, it’s a pickleball arena now. I’m like, wow, this, this is really blowing up. Jeff (40m 47s): It’s a ridiculously fun sport. And it’s, you know, I have so many buddies that do it and have tons of fun and it’s a good social thing and get a little bit of a workout and, you know, I’ve, I’ve even had some of our tennis brother in like, stop playing tennis and jump over and play pickleball full time and Yeah. Dave (41m 3s): Yeah. That’s me. Jeff (41m 4s): It’s cool. I I think it’s like one of those things where I’m pretty competitive at tennis right now. And as I get older, I would imagine I’m probably gonna play a little bit more pickleball. Yeah. Dave (41m 13s): That’s The funny thing. Jeff (41m 14s): Just ’cause it’s a, it’s a cool social thing, but yeah, I’m, I’m mainly mainly tennis. Yeah. Dave (41m 18s): Pickleball. Yeah, it is kind of the thing. It’s, it’s a, yeah, it’ll be interesting to see. Is it a fad or is it something that that sticks around? I feel like for me, ping pong was my sport, or not my sport, but ping pong I loved, I was, I’m pretty good at ping pong. Yeah, man. I think ping pong and tennis come together and that’s pickleball. I feel like it’s very similar. Jeff (41m 36s): It’s pretty close. Yeah. Pretty close. Yeah. All of ’em are good man. Yeah, Dave (41m 40s): They’re all good. Okay. And what about, so we, you know, again, this question, fly fishing wisdom, you know, things that you hear out there. Any, anything you think you’ve heard, like there’s fly fishing that’s kind of accepted that you maybe disagree with a little bit? Jeff (41m 54s): I don’t know the, now we’re gonna get in into fly fishing lore and you’re gonna get me Dave (41m 58s): Yeah. These are, these are random. Jeff (41m 60s): You’re gonna get people to, to hate on me a little bit. No, I’m just kidding. So, so you go back and look at the, the dawn of, of fly fishing in one of the biggest debates ever. Is it matching the hatch or is it the perfect drift? Dave (42m 11s): Ooh, yeah. Jeff (42m 12s): I’m probably of the school. It’s the perfect drift. Dave (42m 15s): Yeah. It’s the perfect drift. Right. Jeff (42m 16s): But here’s a quick story. So I had, I had a business trip in, in Colorado two years ago, and I flew out on a Sunday, drove up in the mountains and I, I went into a fly shop real quick and I was just gonna grab a few things and see what’s going on. And I get in there and I’m talking to, to one of the kids in the shop and I’m like, all right, I’m gonna go out and fish this. And he’s like, okay. Yep. All I gotta tell you is that if you’re not fishing a size 22 or a size 24, you’re not gonna catch anything. Right. And I laughed a little bit. I was like, well, I’m probably gonna fish in 18 for two reasons, dude. I can’t even tie on a 24 anymore. I, I, I, I don’t know what it is. I can’t hardly see it, even if I have my cheaters, like I would need better binoculars or something like that to be able to execute that. Jeff (43m 1s): So I said, I appreciate your advice and I’m not disagreeing that you wouldn’t catch fish on this catch fish, but I have a feeling I can drift a fly good enough to be able to catch fish on an 18. And I did. And it was just one of those like funny little, little things. Oh yeah. But I think having a fly that looks very, very similar versus perfect. You gotta have the right shape and the right, right. Relative size of the insects that are hatching, you know, Dave (43m 24s): But it’s more, it’s more that Dr I kind of agree. It’s, yeah. Jeff (43m 28s): Yeah. And, and it’s, you know, I, I’ve had so many fun debates over a beer with people on that, and, you know, if that’s your, your feeling, you know, two weeks, your own man, it’s all good. I think if you’re matching the hatch. Exactly. I don’t disagree. You’re gonna have success. I don’t think you have to work that hard, though. I think sometimes in the fly fishing world, we overcomplicate things and I think just going simple and working on that, that perfect drift. I think you’re gonna get hookups. I don’t think the, the amount of hookups you get from that philosophy versus the absolute meticulous perfect fly, I don’t think you’re gonna notice any difference for most of us, you know, called mere mortals. Dave (44m 6s): Love that. I, I love that wisdom there because that’s the perfect one. Really think about it, the matching the hatches is just the epitome of fly fishing, right? The, the dry fly fishermen on the water, you know, the matching the hatch. And, and it’s amazing because yeah, that’s the cool thing about fly fishing is you can go as deep and nerdy as you want. If you wanna tie a size 28 and get into that, like go for it. That’s awesome. But Yep. Yep. But at the same time, you know, we have, yeah, Josh Miller was just on team USA, he’s, he’s coached the youth team into the last couple of world championships and he’s just this all star out in pa and he was saying that on that episode, like, man, and you can just see it with euro. You don’t have to look at the Nu Iss, the best example. Those things are pretty much as Right as, as basically not matching the hatches possible. Dave (44m 48s): And they work better than anything. Yeah. Jeff (44m 50s): They look like something that, you know, maybe they look like something, I don’t know, but like a fish sees it and it eats it. So who am I gonna argue? Right? Dave (44m 57s): Yeah. So that, that reinforces your, your case there. So that’s good. I’m glad we went down that road. It’s always good to get a little, and that’s actually a good headline on a, you know, a, a video or a title, right? Like match the hatch. Yeah. Or right to get that going. So If you Jeff (45m 10s): Go Google that right now, you’re gonna see a million hits on that. ’cause it’s, it’s, it’s a topic that a lot of people hit. And I don’t know, I, I think it’s like, you know, I go, I go out to Montana and I fish with my buddy who, who’s a great guy out there, Jake from Montana Fly guy. Oh yeah. Really good dude. And we, we will fish almost not always the same fly, but over 20 days out on the water. I bet we’re fishing fairly similar flies like almost the entire time. And, and he jokes about some of the guys that he fishes with or has seen in the past that said, listen, I don’t care. I’m out here on vacation. I’m from Connecticut or Boston or whatever. I wanna drive fly fish the whole time. He’s like, Hey man, it’s your day. And they’ll catch a few fish, but floating a giant, giant stone fly or something like that up top, then floating, like putting one below it. Jeff (45m 58s): There’s a lot of stone flies in those waters and there’s a lot of fish eating them. And they will swim three feet to go eat one of those big bugs versus a tiny dry, they might not rise for that. So you just never know, man. All kinds of ways to catch a fish on a fly. And I, I like all of them. Dave (46m 14s): That’s why we love it. This is great. Well give us one before we get outta here, just on a resource, again, back to the travel. So we’re playing this trip. Maybe we’re with the family, maybe we’re on a business trip. What would be a, a resource that you would say, Hey, you gotta go do this. Look at this, download this or check this out before your trip. What would be the big thing out there? Jeff (46m 31s): You know, I think you nailed it with trout. Trout Dave (46m 34s): Routes. Yeah. Trout routes. Yep. I Jeff (46m 36s): Haven’t used it yet, but it’s one that I need to, so that’s kinda like on my to-do list. I think just Google is amazing where you say, listen, I’m gonna go to this place. Are there fly fishing opportunities? And you’re gonna find some interesting information. Just, it’s a 10 minute search, right? You don’t have to go down the rabbit hole and be on there for four days. Yeah. Checking out this, this information. ’cause you probably could, ’cause there’s so much information out there. And then If you are going to a, to a place that you know, out in the mountains or wherever where obviously if you’re going to a place where you’re gonna be fishing for bass in a pond, you’re probably not gonna find a a fly shop. And that’s, that’s fine. You probably don’t need it. But If you are going to someplace like that, utilize the local resources. And again, at the beginning, highly recommend you hire somebody to take you out that knows the area a little bit. Jeff (47m 19s): Even If you are a very, very accomplished angler, you do a couple things, you’re, you’re supporting somebody trying to make a living and you’re gonna get some information. And it’s okay to pay, pay a little bit of of money to learn something. It’s, we make tuition payments in life every day. Yeah, Dave (47m 33s): Definitely. Jeff (47m 33s): Either you learn or you don’t though. Dave (47m 35s): I agree. Yeah, I would just add, I think you mentioned it before, but you know, If you do have the time, you know, if it’s more like a half day or a day, I think, you know, getting a guide is always a cool way to, If you want to go that route, you don’t have to. Obviously DIY is great, but that’s another thing. And then I’m not sure I use it a lot. I think probably a lot of people do, but the chat GPT seems to be getting, or the, the AI seems to be getting better and better at things. And I’m sure eventually it’s just gonna be like right there just like, okay, you know, you’re just talking to you. It’s like your guide, you know what I mean? Like, it’s kind of, it’s kind of like embarrassing to say that, but I feel like it’s going there, right? This, the knowledge is getting so good. Jeff (48m 12s): I think you’re spot on. The technology’s getting better every single day. The outputs that they give you is better every day. We, we used it a little bit for, for planning the Austria trip. We ended up going with kinda like a, a guide to help book everything for us. But I would say that, to get the outline of it, it’s just such a cool tool. So we wanna do, you type in there stream of consciousness, everything that you wanna do, and all of a sudden it says like, well here, here’s a list of things you should do and here’s a list of things that you weren’t thinking about that maybe you should. So it’s pretty cool. Fly fishing the same way, man. It’s like, you, you put that in there. The, the search engine in there, like you said, is getting better every single day. So I can’t even imagine where we’re at in the future with that. Dave (48m 50s): No, I, I just put in the phoenix, that example, the, you know, Phoenix. I just basically said, I’m fishing phoenix, where should I fly fish? And it gave a bunch of, you know, lower salt river, SRP canals, oak, and then even gave a video now at the bottom like, here’s Phoenix on the fly. Boom. Wow. You know what I mean? Yeah, Jeff (49m 5s): That’s awesome. Dave (49m 5s): There’s your YouTube video in chat, GPT. So I feel like it’s just, I’m not sure how it differs from Google. ’cause Google’s using their own ai, right? I mean, I think there’s probably overlap, but Jeff (49m 16s): Probably a little overlap. I think they, they work together a little bit, but I, I would, I would imagine. But yeah, I, I think you’re right. It’s gonna keep getting better. Perfect. Which is exciting. Dave (49m 24s): Awesome Jeff. Well this has been a great episode here. Love always the travel tips. We will send everybody out to pescador on the fly dot com if people wanna check out the G six, check out the six piece, the four piece, anything you have going. But yeah man, this has been great. Really appreciate it and looking forward to hopefully, you know, seeing you on the water here as we move ahead. Jeff (49m 42s): For sure. We gotta do it. Yeah. Appreciate it man. This has been fun. Thank you. Dave (49m 47s): All right, your call to action for today is check in with Jeff, let him know you heard this podcast and check out that six piece Rod right now. You can go to pescado on the fly dot com or check him out on social media. We also have a view, If you wanna see on YouTube right now, we’ll have a link to that, the unboxing video. If you wanna see me unboxing this, this Rod and some fun stuff there, we’ll have all sorts of links in the show notes. Just go to wet fly swing.com and check in with Jeff this week. That’s the best way to support us and Pescado on the fly. Shout out before we get outta here. Landon Mayer Tripp. If you’re interested in Landon Mayor right now, you can send me email dave@wetlyswing.com and we do have a spot available for Landon Mayor. Dave (50m 31s): This is Epic Colorado trip from one of the best out there. Send me an email if you’re interested. That’s all I have for you today. Appreciate you for stopping in and listening to this one all the way to the very end. And I definitely hope you have a great morning, great afternoon, or great evening, wherever you are in the world, and we’ll see you on that next one. Outro (50m 50s): Thanks for listening to the Wet Fly Swing Fly fishing show. For notes and links from this episode, visit wet fly swing.com.