756 | Fly Fishing Seattle Washington with Dave McCoy – Emerald Water Anglers, Skagit Spey, Patagonia

Dave Stewart (2s): Today we get into steelhead conservation, the evolution of Skagen, and what new angling opportunities you might want to explore this year. From spay rods to global travel, warm water species to Patagonia gear. By the end of this episode, you’ll have a better understanding of your northwest angling opportunities and the right mindset to move forward with this year. This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, And what you can do to give back to fish species. We all love. Dave McCoy, Emerald Water angling guru and Patagonian ambassadors shares an inside look at the ever changing and expanding world of Washington. Fly fishing. You’re gonna find out what makes sea run cutthroat so special. Dave Stewart (43s): How to approach steelhead with the right mindset, like we said before, and why spa casting is more accessible than ever. This year we’re gonna talk about the spa clay. There’s a few updates there. Plus we’re gonna dig into warm water species like carp and bass, and how to travel with purpose and why politics should be a topic on your next guide trip with your guide. Alright, let’s get into it. This is Dave McCoy from emerald water anglers.com. How you doing, Dave? Dave McCoy (1m 11s): I am fabulous now. Thanks for asking. Dave Stewart (1m 13s): Awesome. Yeah, we had a little bit of, a little bit of effort to get going this morning, but we love the tech. The tech is out there. We love it because it keeps us doing podcasts and Oh, yeah. And all this good stuff. I’m, Dave McCoy (1m 24s): I’m petting it as we speak. I just love tech so much. Right? Dave Stewart (1m 27s): Yeah. You’re in the tech, you’re in one of those tech world. We were just up in Seattle. I tried. I was gonna stop by the shop, but you guys closed a little bit early, so I missed you. Mm. Dave McCoy (1m 34s): Bummer. Dave Stewart (1m 35s): We were up for a ballet of, of some family. Dave McCoy (1m 37s): Oh, wish I would’ve been there. It would’ve been great to see you. Dave Stewart (1m 40s): Yeah, yeah. But, but we miss it. But Seattle’s a cool, a cool town. You’re up in, in Seattle on the west side, and, and you got some good stuff. So we’re gonna talk maybe a, a clay, we’re gonna talk an update on what you guys do with your travel program, Washington, but let’s take it back. For those that didn’t hear the episode, episode 77 back in 2019, Dave McCoy (1m 58s): I was gonna ask you how long ago that was. Dave Stewart (2m 0s): Yeah, it’s amazing. You could say it’s been like six years ago, but it has, so what, what’s been anything new? I know there’s a lot new, but give us a quick update on who you are, what Emerald Water anglers, what you do up there. Dave McCoy (2m 11s): Yeah, so probably the biggest news for the company is the moving of the store. So we relocated the retail space, not very far, only about a block and a half from the old location down onto California Avenue, which is the main thoroughfare for commerce in, in our little business district. So we’re literally right on the right in the epicenter of our business district now, so, which is fantastic. It’s gonna provide us so much more foot traffic and exposure and be able to have so many more conversations with people about fly fishing that have never really encountered it before, outside of TV commercials or movies or something like that. Dave McCoy (2m 53s): But out of curiosity, walk into the store and, And we can have, you know, hopefully those conversations that get people to just maybe take a casting class and see if they like it. And then voila, we got a new fly angler on our hands. There Dave Stewart (3m 7s): You go. And that’s kind of on the Yeah, you’re on the, I mean, your west side, you’re not too far from the water, right? I mean, there’s water everywhere in Seattle, but Yeah, we’re Dave McCoy (3m 15s): Surrounded. Dave Stewart (3m 16s): You’re surrounded by water, but, but at least you’re not near the, the Space Needle, right? You’re a little bit further west. Yeah, Dave McCoy (3m 21s): We’re in what’s called West Seattle, which is a little bit of a peninsula, kind of across from downtown. So we’ve got, literally, Elliot Bay is on our east side and Puget Sound proper is on our, on our left. So we’re right in the center of it. Dave Stewart (3m 36s): Nice. Yeah. Well there’s, you know, like I said, there’s a couple things, and I wanna check on the podcast too, because I know you’re a big Patagonia supporter and and they’re doing great stuff. We love talking about them. And so, and you had a podcast with Yvonne Sheard back a while. You had a conversation with him. Yeah. I wanna check in on that, but let’s just go back, you know, real quick to what you guys do up there. So you’ve got all this water. I think last time we talked, we talked about fishing, like seed run cutthroat. Yeah. But give us a little, like if somebody’s in Washington or coming up through Washington, what are the opportunities up there? Dave McCoy (4m 8s): Well, that’s so hard to put that. Yeah, this’ll take us an hour. It’s a Dave Stewart (4m 13s): Lot. Dave McCoy (4m 14s): So as we speak, we’re sort of at that junction of, it’s a little bit like pro sports. You have basketball coming to an end, hockey coming to an end, but then you’re having baseball kind of get into full swing. It’s kind of the same thing with fishing around here. Puget Sound is just starting to hit its stride for the year. So chum Fry and other bait fish forms are starting to enter the sound. And the cutthroat are starting to, you know, do their Nat geo around the shorelines of trouncing, little bait balls of them and stuff like that. So that’s super exciting. We had the Skagit and Sock Rivers open seven days a week for the first time in quite a while for wild steelhead this year. Dave McCoy (4m 57s): And I was driving by, I was driving back from up there yesterday and the sock, oh my God, there was so many people up there. Oh, were there. Holy cow. Dave Stewart (5m 5s): The river was packed. Dave McCoy (5m 6s): Oh my goodness. Yeah, it was, every pullout had at least one or two cars, and the boat ramps were loaded. So that’s coming to an end here in about a week and a half up there on the Skagit and Sock for the season. And then the Yakima, you know, typically starts to show it’s, it’s hatches about now. I mean, people like to talk about the Squala hatch. I think that’s mostly from people that rely a hundred percent on the Yakima, trying to get people excited to get over there sooner. When people talk about hatches of stone flies and they’ve been in the Rockies, they probably envision trying to, you know, talk with their mouth closed So that they don’t swallow terra narcissist or something by accident. Dave McCoy (5m 49s): This hatch for the squalls is not that prolific. So it happens, but it’s just not a, it’s not as huge a deal as it is in other parts of the country. But March Browns beta, we’ll start seeing PMDs here soon. And then Cadis of course, in May. And then that’s kind of in, in its full swing mode too. Bass in the lakes are starting to warm up. That’s kind of a new direction for us trying to pay a lot more attention to warm water species around here. So carp and bass and muskie. Yeah, there’s a lot going on. Dave Stewart (6m 21s): Yeah, you got a ton. So, and you guys cover not just the west side, so you’re heading over on the east side a little bit of in Washington. Yep. Dave McCoy (6m 28s): Absolutely. Always have. Dave Stewart (6m 29s): So I mean, the Skagit, so that’s a always a big topic because we, And we’ve talked a lot about that, this, because of all the steelhead stuff. What is going on do, is that, I mean, that must be a good sign if it, it’s opening it up for seven days. Do, do you have a good kind of finger on the pulse of, of the run and all that? Dave McCoy (6m 46s): It’s, I was just talking about this with Joe Sano yesterday up at his studio. And you know, I think the thing that people have to keep in mind when they start getting excited about steelhead in the Pacific Northwest is that the number of fish returning and how we base whether rivers are open or not, or open for periods of time, and then calculate interactions to d determine whether or not they’re gonna stay open or not is not an exact science. It’s observational science at best. And so, you know, I just don’t know that anybody, I’m sure that there’s somebody that wants to get in my face and argue about that and that’s totally fine. Dave McCoy (7m 28s): I’m happy to do it because it is true. It is observational science at best. And so we get really excited about a big year and for good reason, everybody wants to wield their spay rods and get out and swing flies and you know, Bob or fish, you know, however they’re gonna do it, pull plugs, whatever. It doesn’t even have to be fly fishing. But at the end of the day, we just have to realize that those numbers are a lot of times inflated for one reason or another. And it’s not often, it does happen occasionally, but it’s not often that the numbers come back either as expected or above what is expected. A lot of times it’s less than expected. Dave McCoy (8m 9s): So just have to be pragmatic about that. And I know that in the angling community with the ability to get your information in a hundred different places, right? It’s difficult for people to be pragmatic and not emotional. Dave Stewart (8m 22s): Yeah. It seems like you could get, depending on who you talk to, you know, you can get a different answer. Right. And find, absolutely. Find your answer Dave McCoy (8m 29s): A lot like our political world. Right? Dave Stewart (8m 30s): Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You can Dave McCoy (8m 33s): Justify however you feel, just look in one place. Yep, Dave Stewart (8m 36s): Yep. So, and I asked that because we’ve had, you know, on the podcast, I know on our, In the Bucket series, Brian nis has been talking about that quite a bit with the, just the difference in the closures. And if you look it up in Canada, you know, like the Chena system, they have a, a little bit of a unique, it’s not perfect, but they have a different system. The Z system, they’ve been talking a lot about, were over, you know, and a lot of people like that, I guess. ’cause it’s kinda limited entry, it’s a random draw, you know, but, so, I dunno, I I start to think about that for some of these rivers, like you say, it’s packed the river, you know, like think of impacts, you know, are there maybe, maybe there aren’t many impacts when the river’s totally packed, you know, and people are catching a few fish and releasing. I don’t know. But Dave McCoy (9m 15s): I have to believe there is. I mean, when you’re talking about, I mean, it would be, it’s a good question. I’d love to see the numbers of licenses sold. And if you could get people to be honest about where they fished and, you know, just determine how many people put a line in the water on the hoe or the Skagit in a year. And there’s been data in the past that said that, you know, on when the, so duck was really low, that we caught every one of those fish two and a half times based on how many interactions were had with fish on that watershed versus how many people were fishing or how many fish returned. So I have to believe there’s impact. I mean, there’s some science that can back that up saying, you know, we’ve got a between a two and a 10% chance of mortality from catch and release phishing. Dave McCoy (10m 3s): So, and you know, you see pictures of people not handling fish well, so you have to assume that that’s, you know, Dave Stewart (10m 12s): It’s happening. Dave McCoy (10m 12s): That’s happening. So yeah, I, I mean, I have to believe that there’s impact there. You’d be literally turning a blind eye to try to deny that. Dave Stewart (10m 20s): Right. And I know Jeff was down there at your spa claim. Give us a little update on that. What, what’s the, the name of that claim? Was this the first year you guys did it in a while? Dave McCoy (10m 28s): No, this is our, this was, this was our 10th year this year. Oh, wow. Dave Stewart (10m 32s): 10th year. Dave McCoy (10m 33s): Yeah. I mean, it’s not a spay clave. Dave Stewart (10m 35s): Yeah, it’s not a, okay. Dave McCoy (10m 36s): It’s not, I mean, it is, and it’s not, it’s not inclusive in that, that we are doing it in conjunction with a bunch of other shops or anything like that. It’s something that I know is a deficit here in this part of the Pacific Northwest. And I have the willingness and the energy to do it. So I do it, and I’m fortunate, extremely fortunate to be able to call on some wonderful people in this sport, in this industry who will come and be present and assist with it and add value to it. I mean, like a clay, it’s free. We get as many of the brands there So that you can cast rods as possible. Dave McCoy (11m 19s): My intention with it is that it’s not a, you know, have a bunch of celebrities come in and, and spend all the time on the water listening to guys talk about, you know, spay orama or rod design, or how to, you know, how to cast. We do two to three really short presentations. And then the rest of the time, those people that are there between sales reps and everything else are there to help you learn how to cast. So it’s either, it’s either come and bring what you have to figure out the right head on the rod that you’ve got because it maybe hasn’t been working Right. Or you’re curious about spay and you want to just get in the water and have somebody help you figure it out for free. Dave McCoy (11m 59s): And it’s growing. It’s, it’s gotten better every year. And, and so I’m, I’m excited to do it. And it’s, it’s fun to see people learn something that for a long time the sport kind of shoved in a dark corner because it wasn’t single hand casting. Dave Stewart (12m 14s): Yeah. Is that kind of how it rolled out the spay? I mean, ’cause it’s been out there a while now if you think about it, right? The, yeah. Late nineties when it started kind of picking up. But, but it’s been, I guess, yeah, it took a while to get traction and that’s because the industry didn’t want to really embrace it. A new rod series. Dave McCoy (12m 30s): Yeah. I mean, you’ve done 900 podcasts, is that what you said? Dave Stewart (12m 34s): Yeah, something like that. So Dave McCoy (12m 35s): You’ve, you’ve talked, you know, the full breadth of people in the sport, right? So there’s people that are true blooded single hand, you know, aficionados and have zero desire to pick up a two-hander. And that’s, that is totally fine, I get it. But at one point in time, and this is just my personal feelings, there was a segment of those people in, I don’t wanna say in charge of, but that held significant purse strings in the sport to be able to say, look, fly fishing is single hand oriented and this spay thing that people are doing, this two-handed stuff people are doing doesn’t really fit into what we’re, you know, trying to do here. Dave McCoy (13m 17s): And so we wanna separate ’em. It’s totally fine that you’re here, but we don’t want cross pollination here. And you know, what we did, and I’d say this in every spay class I do, is we just, we really, you know, put a ball and chain around progress in the sport by not just allowing people to learn spay immediately. Because there’s so many elements of that that you’ll use in your single hand casting. You don’t even, I do things, and I don’t even think about it, snake rolling to change direction on the front of a skiff in The Bahamas, do it all the time. But would I have ever been taught how to do that had I not picked up a two-handed Rob? Dave McCoy (13m 57s): I don’t see FFI teaching that in the single hand process of examination. Dave Stewart (14m 3s): Yeah. So it’s bigger now. What, what is it on at your, you’re a good example, like, you know, spay versus single hand, are you still kind of 80% single people coming in there? Or is it more spay? Dave McCoy (14m 15s): Yeah. You mean into the store? Dave Stewart (14m 16s): Yeah, just in the store in general. Yeah. Dave McCoy (14m 17s): It’s, it’s still probably 80% single. But you know, I’ve tried to position our store as one that is very space centric. So ironically it means that a lot of the steelheaders that are using bobbers don’t necessarily come to us all that often because they know all we do is swing. And so therefore I don’t carry a lot of nymphs For steelhead fishing. I mean, we’ve got nymphs for trout and a lot of times they’re just exactly the same big stone flies. And you can get all fancy with the colors and huge print nymphs and other stuff. But, but yeah, I’d for people coming in For steelhead, it’s probably 90% two handers that are coming to the store for, for it. Dave McCoy (15m 4s): So we carry 11 brands of spay rods or 12, because there’s a lot of really good rods out there right now. It’s scary actually. Dave Stewart (15m 13s): Yeah, definitely. No, that’s awesome. Okay, so, so definitely spay is big and it’s cool to see the, the, like we said, the Skagit open, you know, because that’s again, the Skagit, you know, it’s this famous river. We’ve heard lots of stories about it. I mean, it sounds like, and I was talking to Jeff, like I said, he’s, I think he mentioned, you know, just numbers, right? I mean, so people are catching fish, but you gotta put your time in. What, what’s that look like out there? Is it kind of a, putting in a, a few days to find a fish, something like that? Dave McCoy (15m 39s): Yeah, I think I was talking with Joe about this yesterday And we both kind of feel as though, you know, steelhead are an amazing creature as far as their sense of timing on return based on their world and their intuitiveness to understand that water is getting lower and warmer kind of overall seasonally. And so a return during the temps that are conducive to them returning is sort of trending to be sooner than in the past. I mean, this is a very, very long conversation, so I’m just gonna barely touch on it. But yeah, in general, I would say that depending on the time of year that you’re here, you should expect to take a few days to hopefully come connected to one. Dave McCoy (16m 29s): Instagram is this lovely place where you kind of get lost in time on people’s feeds. And sometimes, you know, if you’re on the water every day, you don’t necessarily get to Instagram that day to post the Phish or no fish that day. And there’s a lot of people that are gonna just post Phish, so it’s gonna look like they’re catching fish every day. I hate to pull the, you know, the wool off of this, but they’re not Dave Stewart (16m 54s): No, no, no. And even steelhead in general, you know, or really Phish, they’re not Yeah, Dave McCoy (16m 60s): Yeah. Catching fish every day. No, sorry, sorry if I blew that up for people, but it just doesn’t happen all the time. Yeah. So yeah, you should dedicate a few days ’cause you’re gonna have bright, sunny weather one day. You’re gonna have pissing rain the next, and you might have inflated rivers through part of that. And you’re just gonna have to take what you get and hope that you’re there at the right time and that you’re covering the water well. Dave Stewart (17m 24s): Fish Hound Expeditions offers world-class fly fishing right off Alaska’s incredible road system for monster rainbow trout to feisty arctic railing. You’ll chase big species in the stunning landscape. 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I think that was really exciting. I remember when I saw that podcast you did with him, I saw it come out. I was like, man, what was that like for you? And just tell me like how you put that together. Because I mean, the guy is a, you know, this epic, you know, billion dollar company, but more than that, right? He’s giving his company away to the planet, right? Like, what is that like when you’re sitting across from him talking to him, asking him questions? Dave McCoy (18m 46s): It’s, it’s pretty intimidating. I mean, just to kind of briefly cover my history with Patagonia, I remember when I was first wearing their waiters and I was standing, I was, I remember standing in the John Day in November in freezing freezing ass cold water wearing Patagonia at the time. It was 20 years ago, literally 20 years ago, maybe 21 and or 22 even. Holy cow times going by fast. But I had the felt, it was coming off of one of my boots and I had some seam issues and I was soaking wet and all of my clients were standing there and other brands, and they were dry and warm and whatever. Dave McCoy (19m 33s): And I was standing there giving ’em grief about how the companies that they were wearing were doing absolutely nothing for the resources that we’re standing here enjoying nothing, you know, or very near nothing. Right? And so, and it, you know, several of those people still fish with me and, And we love to laugh about that. But that was the kind of the beginning of my journey towards my relationship with Patagonia now. And I remember when Bart, you know, I’d been trying to, I’d been looking at the ambassador team when, when I was not one and, and was trying to identify the traits of that collection of people at the time that I would need to mirror in some form or another in order to, for lack of a better way of saying it qualify to be considered. Dave McCoy (20m 24s): And so I started checking as many of the boxes as I could, you know, become a writer, become a photographer, stand up for what I care about within the sport conservation wise, and be, you know, vocal about it. And basically try to live a life publicly that mirrored or was on the same path, the ethos of the company, which is, in my opinion, what, what the brand is asking of anybody that, that it endorses or, or has in the front door, right? And so when I finally did ask Bart about the possibility of that, and I was brought on as one I, it was at a very pivotal time. It was when Instagram was really starting to become the prominent form of social media. Dave McCoy (21m 10s): I said to Bart, I’m like, look, we, you know, if Phish is growing phish within Patagonia, the, that arm of it was growing as fast as it was then we needed to have our own unique voice under the company umbrella. And he asked me what I meant and I said, well, I think, you know, when you look at Patagonia Global, we were at best getting one to two posts a month on Patagonia social media, you know, Instagram. And I said, I like, you know, we’ve got a community that’s starved for the kind of content that we can provide and are willing to provide, and I think we should entertain the idea of having our own channel. Dave McCoy (21m 51s): And so he’s like, well, we have, we have the GSM coming up down in Ventura here, and I’m like, a month, why don’t you come down and have some ideas ready to maybe present to a couple people? And so I was like, okay. And so I came down and, and sat at a table in the middle of the GSM with Bart and Mark Harbaugh and Yvonne and a handful of other people that were, you know, pretty high up and kind of gave my pitch. And they asked a few questions and got the nod of approval from everybody. And I had already had everything all set up. And so I was like, okay, perfect. ’cause here you go, boom. And I hit go, there’s Patagonia Fly Fish, Instagram, there’s the Facebook, here’s a Tumblr, set the Tumblr up as a, you know, as a more of a blog like thing for longer content under the Phish umbrella. Dave McCoy (22m 44s): And that was on the website for a while. Like a lot changed in that first five years. But basically I, the first time I really got to meet Yvonne was that I had to, you had to pitch him. Yeah, I kind of had to tell him that, you know, and I didn’t know if you knew who the hell I was or what. And so I was pretty intimidated by it. And then we were getting ready to leave the meeting and go to dinner and we’re standing out front waiting for some cars to come pick us up. And he’s standing next to me like he does with his, you know, his hands in his pockets and just acting, you know, being very nonchalant about things. And he looks over at me and he is like, so how’s that new shop coming along? Dave McCoy (23m 24s): Pretty excited about it. Oh, wow. And I about crap, my pants on the spot. I’m like, how in the world would you even know that I was about to open the store and this and that? Oh, wow. So this is before the store was opened. Yep, exactly. So it blew me away. So then, you know, I’ve had the privilege of spending a little bit of time with him here and there, and when we started our podcast, I’ve tried to look at how I want to do it as a form of longer format conversation in the element that we would be in with that person and the Yvonne podcast that we did. Dave McCoy (24m 4s): We were supposed to go out to Montana And we were gonna snowshoe into a section of the Madison with him and Craig Matthews to fly fish, And we were going to shoot the podcast or record the podcast while we were doing that. And unfortunately, CO had everybody a little bit spooked. And I certainly didn’t want to compromise either of those two gentlemen whatsoever. So we ended up having to just shoot it in kind of a standard format. But I mean standard, if, as standard as it gets sitting there talking to Yvonne one-on-one. Right. As you know. Yeah. Dave Stewart (24m 41s): I was lucky enough to similar. I, well, I had Craig and Yvonne on the podcast. Yeah. And, and it was, yeah, it was, it was probably one of the, the most nervous I’ve been, but, you know, because he’s, he’s so, you know, like everything he says, I, I go back to one of the questions I I, you know, I can’t remember all of ’em, but you know, he, I asked him a question and he goes back to talk. I, I was talking about the R two fleece, I think, you know, and I was saying how cool it was and how much I loved it, and he went to, you know, do you know how many micro fibers come out in the laundry that are ruining the environment and here’s what we’re doing to fix it, you know, this new washing machine by Samsung, you know, so he’s al his mind’s always there. It’s really cool. Right? Yeah. He, he never wa you know, waves from that. Dave McCoy (25m 24s): No, he is, he’s a lightning rod for people, for better and for worse. And I think, you know, the biggest thing I’ve taken away from, from being involved with him and the company is, you know, integrity for one and your perseverance to really drive yourself to follow your passion and, and what it is that means the most to you and unw from it, regardless of the flack you catch for it. And I’ve, I will thank him for the rest of my life for that leadership and sort of opening that door for me to see that that was a possibility. Yep. Dave Stewart (26m 1s): And I love that story you just shared about the shop opening and Yvonne and, and the meetings and, you know, and kind of pitch them, although you were pitching ’em the idea that was like, for them, I mean, it was a bonus. Like literally you created, you helped to start that Patagonia fly fish is essentially what you’re saying. I did start it. Yeah, you did start it. Yeah. You start, which is now it’s just you, you look now you’re like, yeah, it’s a no brainer. Of course you’ve got Patagonia, is it Fly Fish or Fish? Dave McCoy (26m 25s): Patagonia underscore Fly fish. Dave Stewart (26m 27s): Underscore Fly Fish. Yeah. So now you have just Patagonia fly, which makes total sense because Patagonia’s huge, but they do all this other stuff. Yep. And now you can go to one place. Dave McCoy (26m 36s): Yeah. I mean, it was, it was funny ’cause they, you know, their questions when we, when I pitched that was like, well, you know, where’s the content gonna come from? And the, you know, this can’t just be, you know, it needs to represent the company and, you know, all the, all the, all the normal concerns you’d have for, from a company looking at, at exposing themself like this. And we were the first sport line to have its own its own channel for the, for the brand. And I think it took, it was probably a year or two before, I can’t remember if it was surf or Climb or Alpine that came next behind us, but had conversations with them about that. And I have to be totally honest on this, my intent was to not self-promote. Dave McCoy (27m 19s): So if you go to the bottom of that scroll, the first photo on the feed is me and Travis Rummel in front of the cinema here in Seattle for, it was either a filming of, or a showing of one of his films, or it was a fly fishing film tour, I can’t remember which. And I don’t remember if it was damnation or which one it was. I’d have to go look. But, but anyway, that was the first one. And then the rest of the time I had, you know, been talking with my other friends in the sport that were willing to kind of help lift it off the ground. Josh Hutchins being one of ’em at Ozzy Fly Fisher. And basically they were just feeding me photos And we were just trying to smatter the world under that channel, showing people how cool the world was in a way that wasn’t grip and grin adhering to ke you know, keeping fish wet and being, you know, jostling between scenic and funny and conservation. Dave McCoy (28m 16s): And, you know, the things that should be should still be entertaining. But, you know, alas, our appetite for content is insatiable. So yeah, Dave Stewart (28m 27s): There’s a lot we need to keep feeding the, the, the, whatever the thing is, you know, just keep feeding, feeding it until it’s to the point where you’re, you’re just like, wow, what, what are we doing here? This is nuts, right? We’re trying, but, but you know, I think it’s interesting ’cause I think, you know, and politics is something you mentioned at the start. We don’t talk a lot about politics on here, right? It’s like the, the guide trip don’t talk politics, religion, or whatever the other thing. But it seems like, you know, Patagonia, they are a lightning rod for some, right? But how do you balance that with what you have? I’m sure you, you hear from some people, but the political stuff versus just doing the right thing about conservation and protecting, like how do you, how do you balance that and how do you, how do you deal with that? ’cause you also guide, right? Dave Stewart (29m 7s): You’re out in the water with people. Yeah, yeah. Dave McCoy (29m 10s): No, it’s a great question. I think, you know, that cliche statement of don’t talk religion, politics, and money with, with your clients is, I’d love to have that cliche as well as a few others just get thrown down the garbage disposal and never brought up again. I think if you are incapable of having that conversation with somebody, then sure. But if you’re incapable of having that conversation and in earnest being able to converse about it and hear and listen, you know, that’s, that’s a big problem with anybody anymore, is the ability to listen then yeah, you probably not only shouldn’t have that conversation, but maybe you shouldn’t be guiding as a profession. Dave McCoy (29m 56s): I mean, I, I hate to say it like that, that’s gonna ruffle a lot of feathers, I am sure. But at the end of the day, it’s mutual time that you’re spending with your clients in whatever element that you’re in. And this is just my opinion, but if you want to have that time become more precious, you have to be able to delve deeper with people than just being on the surface of what you’re doing. If that makes sense. Like, you’ve gotta be able to have earnest conversations that get into people’s heart and emotions. And if you’re incapable of being able to stand next to somebody that doesn’t necessarily see eye to eye with you on a number of different things and still have an enjoyable experience on both sides, then you know, you’ve got some learning to do. Dave McCoy (30m 45s): I think. And for me, that’s where I believe that I am pretty adept at this. And I’ve used a number of different tools to, to do so. One is the camera that we’ve talked about in the past. I, I believe that when you reach a point of mutual agree to disagree kind of moment in space like that, it it’s good you found that you, you found the place where, you know, you guys differ in in how you feel about stuff. And that’s where I can use, I choose to use the camera to capture photos to present to them later, to soften and kind of blur that, that moment or that space, because they’re gonna see that, that moment through my eyes now and not just through theirs. Dave McCoy (31m 34s): And I think it helps lead to a deeper appreciation of each other’s time and the place, the location, the, the fish, the water, all these different things. And over time people start to listen better, I believe, if you’re able to, to come to the table with, with more than just your opinion. Dave Stewart (31m 54s): Right? So that’s the key takeaway is that it’s just not the listening, right. The opinion’s and listening. So it’s not just your opinion you’re bringing, but it’s, you’re listening to the other person. I think that is the biggest thing, right? I think that’s the, the political thing that we’ve lost. It seems like recently the, the ability to, you know, the, you hear these stories about back in the day with the, the senators and stuff where they used to hang out and chat from different sides of the aisle and get stuff done. Right? I feel like that that’s, that’s the struggle. And same thing here. You’re just saying that like, hey, we’re, we can have disagreements on stuff, but we still should be talking, right? Dave McCoy (32m 28s): Yeah. We have to, you know, and at the end of the day it’s, it’s a little bit cheating on my part because I’m gonna get my point across to them. It’s just not gonna be through the front door, if that makes sense. You know, I’m gonna, I’m gonna get you to care about the same way I do, even though politically we might disagree on, on a lot of things. But I’m gonna get you there because I’m gonna, I’m gonna show you elements of this fishery or, or what’s, you know, what’s in peril here from the back door. I’m gonna get you to care about it through showing you a really unique experience that you may not have anywhere else or with anybody else. I’m going to allow you to relive it through capturing it through photos and video and, and present that to you afterwards So that it just constantly resonates with you, ends up being your screen screensaver on your computer. Dave McCoy (33m 17s): And slowly but surely that’s gonna just bleed its way into you. And, and next thing you know, you’re gonna start to think about that in a way of that affects how you live your daily life. Dave Stewart (33m 30s): Fish to Fly Guide service is passionate about sharing Jackson Hole’s world class fishing from its iconic rivers to hidden backcountry waters, the legendary mutant stone and other fantastic hatches bring explosive top water eats during peak season. Backcountry creeks hold hidden gems where every band offers something new and wild. Trout rise in untouched waters. Jackson Hole sits in the golden circle for trout home to the headwaters of three major river systems, the snake, the green, and the Yellowstone. Here you can chase native cutthroat trout, big browns, wild rainbows, and even K on the fly. If this is your kind of fishing fish, the fly guide service is ready to take you there. Book your trip right now@fishthefly.com. Dave Stewart (34m 12s): You have a travel program. You guys, I, I know you’ve been everywhere it seems like, but talk about that a little bit. This has been going on a while. Where are you guys traveling? Do you do an equal amount of kind of fish in the home waters around there versus the travel out and broad? Dave McCoy (34m 27s): Yeah, I mean, I, I try to, for me travel is, is just a way for me to become better, make new friends. I’m curious. Like so many other people are curious, right? I’m curious. I, I see things on the news or I, I read things in magazines and I’m just curious. I wanna go see it. And I’ve, you know, again, been extremely fortunate to have accumulated this vast network of friends all over the world. And what do you want to do more than anything with your friends? Go see ’em, right? Yep. And so, you know, and so I was in Gabon earlier this year just in French Polynesia. Dave McCoy (35m 7s): Again, it’s kind of one of the places I’m continuing to go back to through Indie Fly Foundation and then Hof to The Bahamas down to see Kyle, one of my fellow Patagonia ambassadors next week. And yeah, I, I don’t know, I just, everything’s exciting to me. Whether it’s carp or aer or bone or tarpon in a river, like just, it’s all exciting to me. It’s all good. Especially for the first time. Yeah. Dave Stewart (35m 35s): Yeah. And you mentioned a few, like your warmer water stuff you guys are getting into. I mean, that’s something we just did an episode with. We were in Arizona, Phoenix, just talking about fishing for, you know, carp and, and different, you know, the grass canals Dave McCoy (35m 48s): Down Dave Stewart (35m 48s): There. Yeah, exactly. The canals. Well there’s even some, he was even saying there’s some, some flats fishing on some of the lakes and reservoirs. Dave McCoy (35m 55s): That’s fantastic. How’s that not exciting to people? I don’t get it. Dave Stewart (35m 58s): That’s what I mean. I, I feel like when I’m always fired up, I feel like it is. But yeah, I guess carp, it feels like carps kind of on the map now because people have, you know, we’ve heard about it’s getting there. Yeah, it’s getting there. But then you got bass, you got all these other warm even, you know, the smaller fish, right. All of the sunfish and stuff. Right? Totally. Is that what you guys, what’s that look like for your program? ’cause you have this already, you’ve already talked, you’ve got this travel program all around the world. You’ve got all your steelhead and the stuff at home. How do you go into the next thing? What does that look like? Dave McCoy (36m 25s): Yeah, I, I mean, I think that while Carp is on the map, like there’s two big carp events here in Washington in the next little bit. House of Flies hosting one down on the Columbia. And then we’re quietly kind of helping host one over on Banks Lake in mid to late July through Bill Marts. Oh Dave Stewart (36m 45s): Yeah. Yeah. Dave McCoy (36m 46s): And it’s still an uphill climb. We’re still trying to get people to realize that there’s more diverse opportunities around here than just going to the Yakima. And you know, I think like anything else I can talk about till I’m blue in the face and we’re starting to see this, so my next comment isn’t meant to slam anybody ’cause it is actually starting to happen. But we need the magazines And we need the brands to start showing the public that there’s stuff other than steelhead and tr Oh, Dave Stewart (37m 17s): Right. Dave McCoy (37m 18s): And I’ve had this conversation with people at multiple brands. I’m like, look, it’s, it’s on your plate. I’m face-to-face with the customer, but the customer is gonna believe everything outta my mouth is subjective. And it has to be under the umbrella of the brand saying, for lack of a better way, saying it granting a thumbs up to Yes, you can go do that with our stuff. Right. Dave Stewart (37m 45s): And we have the stuff Dave McCoy (37m 46s): Exactly. You can go do, you can go chase carp, it’s okay, you should go do that. See, look here, we’re showing you a carp with one of our rods. You know, as soon as, as soon as we get the brands to really start pushing that agenda, instead of it always being trout and steelhead or bonefish, then I think you’ll start to see the public turn more quickly. But as of now, it’s still mostly us trying to push that agenda. Dave Stewart (38m 8s): Right. And then there’s certain areas where maybe the, you know, the, I’d go back to Schultz, you know, we’re heading out with those guys to do some stuff in Michigan. Yeah, cool. You know, the places where it’s saying, you know, their home waters. Right. You’re talking, those are the native range, but, you know. Yeah, for sure. Not that that, not that that matters. ’cause there’s lots of non-native fish that people are fishing for over there as well. Yep. But, but it’s, yeah, I see it. You know, and then the, the companies come out with the rods and the lions that’re specific to carp or bass or whatever it is. Right. And then everybody’s Yeah. And you’re seeing the photos. Yeah. From my perspective, I guess because I have interviewed so many people, I feel like, you know, we’ve talked a lot about it, all these species. But what do you think on the salt, because that’s another piece, right? The salt, I mean, you guys have salt near you, but yeah. Dave Stewart (38m 49s): More of the warm water stuff versus the carp. I mean, I, I feel like still the car bass is a bigger potential audience because it’s all in, you know, the US or, you know. Right. We have all these species here. How do you see that, or how do, what does the evolution look like for a flyr they come into your shop as a new person? Do they still start with trout or do you think starting them with bass or something else might be a good way to go? Dave McCoy (39m 11s): That’s a fabulous question, Dave. I mean, that is the question. My personal hope is, and it’s why we embrace so many of the different things that are around here, is that anybody that’s gonna pick up a fly rod is going to be a 12 month a year fly angler. You know, I think that when you direct people into the world of trout, depending on where they live, trout might only be a seasonal target for ’em. And if fly fishing is that is valuable enough for people to choose to do that with their time, then you, you know, again, by you, I mean me and other, you know, point of sale professionals in the, in the sport need to be trying to help people embrace everything that that fly rod can bring to them. Dave McCoy (40m 4s): Like, we need to, we need to make sure people feel comfortable chasing bass and carp and catfish and whatever it is that they can do on the fly rod. Like, and maybe it’s a little bit of travel for ’em, but at least then they’re still doing it. You know, there’s people catching carp, I think close to 12 months a year around Washington depending on where they, where they go. And so I don’t know that a lot of people know that in, even in our neck of the woods. But that would be something that if we can get people past the idea that it’s not a trout and get to the point where they’re sight casting to a fish that puts a pretty deep bend in a rod, which hello, if we leave the species out of it, isn’t that really what we’re there to do and to do so without there being, you know, 500 people around us, then I think we’ve accomplished our goal. Dave McCoy (40m 58s): Right. Dave Stewart (40m 59s): Yeah, definitely. And you have some tribe, I mean, that’s what we talked about in the last episode. The, it’s pretty unique. I mean, the sea run, the cutthroat trout that are in that area is you’ve got this cool, unique thing going on, which you can’t do everywhere, right? I mean Right. But you, what you don’t have is these giant trout, well you have steelhead of course, but you don’t have the giant trout that maybe grow on the east side. Right. Or maybe Montana. They’re bigger fish. Yep. Dave McCoy (41m 21s): I mean, we do, we have some, but I would never, that’s never gonna be the first five things out of my mouth talking to somebody. Dave Stewart (41m 29s): Yeah. You’re not gonna be talking about big brown trout. Dave McCoy (41m 31s): Nope. Or big. Or big Rainbows. Rainbows. Yeah. No, I’m gonna talk about the experience first that I think the result oriented sales pitch is lost on so many people now. Dave Stewart (41m 42s): Oh, you mean the result being like, you’re gonna catch a giant fish. Dave McCoy (41m 45s): Yeah, exactly. You’re gonna become a, i I start with you’re gonna be become a better angler. You’re gonna see some really cool stuff. You’re going to be in an absolutely gorgeous place and you’re not gonna see hardly any other people, if any at all. And we might encounter a fish, and if you’re into that, we’re gonna be good friends. Dave Stewart (42m 5s): That’s it. Yeah. So regardless whether you catch, I mean, that’s the cool thing about whether you catch a big fish, a bunch of fish, or even maybe a fish, right? You’re still gonna learn, learn about the area, be able to bring those skills back to, you know, your next day on the water. Yeah. Which is pretty cool because we just had our group, we have a, a small, you know, wetly swing pro community, you know, that’s growing now. And we had our a meeting a little q and a last night. It was really cool because we were all just sitting around talking about what we’re saying here, like where people were going, where they’re traveling to. And definitely funding is part of it. You know, not everybody can, you know, afford a $10,000 trip or 8,000 Right. Dave McCoy (42m 40s): Or a 3000 Dave Stewart (42m 41s): Trip or a 3000. Yeah. I mean, so it’s like we’re, I’m trying to think more of the, you know, out of the box on Yeah. What are the things. And I think the getting a guide trip for a day, if you can, is a good way to do it because you can learn a day on the water and then go out the next day on your own Right. And explore. Yeah. Dave McCoy (42m 57s): Yeah. And I, I mean, and I, I have my opinions on things. Everything outta my mouth is mostly subjective, you know, out of, you know, curated through my personal experiences. Right. I try to be as objective on a lot of it as I can. And, you know, that’s where I would say this. And that is, if you are going to hire a guide, do some due diligence and really be thoughtful on what you want out of that experience, the more due diligence you do as the person hiring a guide on what your expectations are, come to the table with that on very, very out front and give the guide or the guide service or the shop the opportunity to see if that’s a good fit. Dave McCoy (43m 42s): Because at least I’ll speak for me, at least for us and at Emerald Water anglers, I don’t want to take somebody’s money and take them on a trip where we aren’t going to exceed their expectations. Absolutely. Do not wanna have to apologize at the end of a trip. And I would say that the majority of the people in this space, in our sport feel that same way, but maybe aren’t comfortable enough to say that out loud. Dave Stewart (44m 16s): Yeah. Because of the, the expectations of Well, we’ve heard that a lot. Money. Yeah. The money. You don’t Dave McCoy (44m 22s): Wanna turn somebody away, Dave Stewart (44m 23s): Right? Yeah. You don’t wanna turn somebody away, but if you can, you actually do. Yeah, that’s Dave McCoy (44m 27s): Right. I hate to say it. You Dave Stewart (44m 28s): Actually do. If you can’t deliver Yeah. If you can’t deliver for them. Dave McCoy (44m 30s): If it’s somebody that’s all about, Hey, I want 20 big trout today. Well you’re in Seattle, that’s not gonna happen. Dave Stewart (44m 37s): Or I want to catch a steel, I wanna land my first steelhead today Dave McCoy (44m 41s): No matter what. Yeah. It’s gotta happen. Well, you know, there’s, you gotta talk through that with somebody like that, right? Yeah. Dave Stewart (44m 48s): Like I’m coming in saying, man, I’ve been wanting a steelhead for my whole life, you know, and I, this is it. I mean, I’m gonna put everything In today to get it done. That’s, that’s my number one goal. And if I don’t, if I don’t get a steelhead, I’m gonna be disappointed. Dave McCoy (45m 2s): Yeah. And I, I mean I, again, I think you have to talk through that with somebody because a lot of people are gonna come with that. And I think after a more in depth conversation, if you’re, if you’re paying attention, you can read between the lines on what that means. Yes. Everybody’s gonna come wanting a steelhead. Yeah. Dave Stewart (45m 21s): Right. Dave McCoy (45m 21s): Right. That’s the goal. Are you kidding me? That’s the goal, right. Always the goal. Yeah. But if you can talk through that and determine that, and it, I can usually tell in the first sentence or two outta their mouth if it’s, if this is a good fit or not. And usually, and believe it or not, I still hear this is, you know, how many fish are we gonna catch? Dave Stewart (45m 40s): Right? Dave McCoy (45m 42s): Like, well, wow, okay, so I’ve already sort of written this off as I’m gonna suggest you probably look at a different guide service ’cause this isn’t, we’re not gonna be a good fit for you. You just don’t, nobody catches that many fish anymore. No. Even the bobber guys have days where they don’t catch fish. So either the whole sport has to shift how we are promoting, pursuing steelhead, at least in the Pacific Northwest. Or we are gonna have to do, some of us have to do a little bit better job of determining who our clients are and who they’re, who aren’t. And it, you know, it’s, it’s a shifting baseline. Not everybody’s gonna stay in their same lane the whole time as far as, you know, how they want to pursue fish steelheads, just like any other thing. Dave McCoy (46m 25s): Somebody’s gonna do whatever it takes to get that first one, and then they’re gonna want a day where they catch a bunch of those and then at some point they start to care enough about it that they start to see that the numbers aren’t what they were 20, 30 years ago. And that’s concerns ’em. And so then they, you know, are open to, they, they become spay curious and, and whether that’s spay with a single or spay with a actual two-hander, then you start to have that conversation, then you’ve Yeah. And I don’t say that you’ve arced them, maybe they’ve arced themself in, in that, in that way, where now it’s process oriented. It’s, it’s not result oriented. And that’s, and that’s a huge difference. Dave McCoy (47m 7s): And I even look at that as for our international travel. Dave Stewart (47m 10s): Yeah. You look at, you mean as far as when people are booking trips? Yep. Same thing because you can’t control, I mean, you’re now, you’re not the guide. Right. There’s somebody else, but you can still control the expectations. Yeah, Dave McCoy (47m 21s): I, I, exactly. I know what my expectation is from the trip and if I can convey how I chose to book this destination to somebody, and it sounds amenable to them on all fronts, perfect. But I literally shot an email off to a guy this morning telling him that one of our trips I don’t think is a good fit for him, you know, for a number of reasons. But one of them is that, you know, he wants to catch a lot of fish. And I’m like, we just don’t catch a lot of fish here. Dave Stewart (47m 51s): You mentioned the waiters, Patagonia, as we were talking about Patagonia interest, I remember, you know, I don’t currently have a pair of Patagonia or any waiters, but I remember when they first got going, I had a friend Shannon, shout out to Shannon, he had some waiters and I remember, yeah, there may have been some early on some issues with them. I feel like things have changed now that they’ve been doing this so long. What are the, you guys have all the gear in there, like waiters, all the lines, all that stuff. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. What’s the, is it the swift current waiters? Is there a new line or what’s your take on Yeah, Dave McCoy (48m 19s): The, the new traverse waiters are, you know, I don’t want this to become an ad, but one of the things that we look for is, you know, customer service on the brand side. And Patagonia is as good as it gets. The fact that the waiter has been built, the way that it’s been built with the recycled material for the, for the bulk of the material is unbelievable. Dave Stewart (48m 41s): So it’s recycled literally old waiters and stuff that have come back. Dave McCoy (48m 45s): Yeah. I can’t, I don’t know to go into the de tech details of it, Dave Stewart (48m 49s): But Yeah. Dave McCoy (48m 50s): But that is, I mean, I do, but, but I’m not gonna be able to deliver it in a way that’s gonna sound great. But, you know, between that and, you know, paying attention to the PFAS and not having any of that in any of the materials anymore and haven’t had it for a while, the fact that you can get a zip front for 5 49 now is outstanding from a company like Patagonia and the zipper’s a hundred bucks by itself Oh wow. On any pair of waiters. Damn. At least a hundred bucks. Yeah. So to be able to get into a waiter with that sort of backing from a company and built the way the traverse is built is a commitment from the brand to the consumer that they want to be able to more affordably put, and I hate the word best, but the most suitable equipment on you for what you’re gonna go do possible. Dave Stewart (49m 44s): Which is for what we’ve been talking about, you know, maybe steelhead fishing in a cold river, you know, up to your waist Yeah. All day long. Yeah. Dave McCoy (49m 53s): Trying to steal all day long. Yeah. Good luck with that. Right? Dave Stewart (49m 56s): Yeah. Right out all day long. I, I joke about some of the, the trip I took to New York when I was with, with Rick ic. Yeah. And it was, it was one of those cool days that I was not fully ready, you know, but you know, he, that’s winter steelhead fishing, You know what I mean? That’s, that’s part of the deal. But no, cool. I, I like that because I think, you know, hopefully I’m gonna be wearing a pair of those waiters soon and I don’t take off my, like I said, my R two, that stuff, I wear that all the time. It’s, it’s cool to see because again, you, you’ve got products that are, I think even though organic, I think maybe Patagonia was the first, the first company that kind of came out with the organic t-shirt or at least promoted it out there. But Sure. It’s like this stuff that actually works, that’s the cool thing. And it’s recycled right. And it has all this conservation benefit and that, that’s, I think, what’s exciting about all this. Dave McCoy (50m 40s): Yeah. It’s, I totally agree with you. And it’s, it’s frustrating at times how, you know, people really bash the brand for a number of different reasons these days. It’s mostly political and you know, I, I think being objective when I talk to people about waiters in the store, it’s my least favorite product to sell because I don’t know how you use your waiters. Yeah, Dave Stewart (51m 2s): That’s true. Dave McCoy (51m 3s): You know, and I think people need to hear this. ’cause I don’t know that every shop’s gonna articulate it this way when they go in to talk to ’em about it. But I don’t know how you’re gonna use these when you leave. I don’t know that you’re not going to decide that you’ve got a big blackberry thing in your backyard. You’re gonna clear out and you think your waiters are bomb proofs. You’re gonna use that to keep from getting scratched and Right. Dave Stewart (51m 23s): Or if you throw your waiters in the back of the truck wet and just leave ’em in there Dave McCoy (51m 26s): For Right. Leave them in there. Or you slide, you decide the easiest access to the river is just to slide on your butt down 50 feet of hillside. That’s right. They’re gonna fail on you. I don’t care what brand they’re gonna fail on. You. You know, and I say this because I see how people treat our rental waiters that we have for the guide service, and I’m like, oh my God, we got three weeks out of these. Are you kidding me? Dave Stewart (51m 47s): Wow. Yeah. Dave McCoy (51m 48s): And I look at ’em, I got holes everywhere and I kind of get on my guides. I’m like, you can’t let people do this stuff on in these things. I think you have to come prepared for the fallibility of, of the product. It’s, it’s all got a lifespan regardless of the brand. And I’ve seen every single one of the brands have a quality control issue at one point or another. You know, and so yeah, all Dave Stewart (52m 14s): Companies, probably every Dave McCoy (52m 15s): Single one of them, or at least the five or six that we’ve ever dealt with, I’ve seen every one of them leak out of the box brand new with clients, every single one of them. So, sorry, nobody’s better than another on that one. It’s just a quality control issue. It’s humans are fallible and these things are being made by humans. Right. It’s just, just put two and two together here, there’s gonna be some failures in in there occasionally. Nobody wants that. They’re doing everything they can to not have that happen, but it happens. So get out of the space of holding that against whatever brand did that to you, and just realize that that’s part of it Dave Stewart (52m 55s): And that’s where the customer service comes in place. Dave McCoy (52m 58s): You took the words right outta my mouth. Dave Stewart (52m 59s): Yeah, that’s it. That’s what’s cool about it. So they have a good customer service, so if there are issues, they, and, and they have of course the the repair thing I think, which is really cool, right. Where they’re repairing your, your garments for free. Dave McCoy (53m 11s): When I helped Pat Jenkins start recycled waiters, we did this thing where we, early, early on first couple of years when, when I was helping him with that, you know, one of the things that I, that I sort of brought up to him was that waiters become an emotional part of, of your equipment for a lot of people. These have traveled the world with you. Sometimes they’re Dave Stewart (53m 32s): Living out of them. They’re living Dave McCoy (53m 33s): Exactly that big purple spot on your left leg is where you guys were drinking wine after, you know, a huge sea run brown in Argentina and you, and you got, you know, two drunk and you spilled half a bottle on you. And, and, and every time you look down, that memory is with you wherever you are wearing those waiters. Right. And so, you know, initially we were taking people’s waiters in and, and offering to make them a specific, you know, piece upcycled piece from that portion of the waiter So that that could be still with them, like a wallet with that stain on it or the satchel with that stain on it or, you know, whatever it was. Right. And so the idea that Patagonia is trying to allow people to get more life out of the waiters that they’ve come to love just speaks volumes to where the company stands with regards to a smaller footprint and, you know, trying to get as much out of your equipment as possible. Dave McCoy (54m 29s): You know, knowing that waiters are, you know, it’s one thing to have a ski jacket and have snow, you know, not penetrate, but that is completely different than full immersion constantly. Dave Stewart (54m 41s): Yeah. It’s, Dave McCoy (54m 42s): It’s as far as waterproofness. Dave Stewart (54m 44s): Yep. And what is the, I mean, it’s probably all over the board, but what do you think is a good average person lifespan? They take care of their waiters for a pair of, you know, a set of waiters. How long do they get out of them? Dave McCoy (54m 55s): I think if you, I mean, I’m gonna go out on a limb here, and I think if you were conscious of how you used them, like you chose to walk around to that set of bushes as opposed to go right through it, you turned them inside out after every use So that they would dry So that your delamination wouldn’t take place on the inside or thoughtful about not dropping down to your knees to, you know, land fish and you know, all the things that if you in a perfect world, you wouldn’t do to ’em. Yeah. You could probably get several years out of ’em. I mean, without question. And several years that, you know, 50 plus days a year or more. And the last, this last generation since the swift currents have come out, I’ve been getting, I haven’t gone through waiters anywhere near as fast. Dave McCoy (55m 38s): Like I, I’ve, I’m getting a couple years out of each of my pairs and I don’t take care of mine. Right, absolutely. Do not take care of mine. My garage isn’t heated. Yeah, Dave Stewart (55m 49s): Exactly. Dave McCoy (55m 49s): They stay wet all the time. Yep. Dave Stewart (55m 51s): Nice. Cool. Well, well this is good. I think we’ve got a nice update from you, Dave, on what you have going here. I think maybe, maybe we can get you back on, we’ll talk more down the line about some of the other stuff you have going and go a little bit deeper dive. But before we get out here, give us anything we missed, you wanna give a heads up on anything you have come, we talked about the, your, your spay event a little bit, but anything else do you wanna shed light on here? Dave McCoy (56m 15s): We have, we’ve got some really cool stuff coming over the next six or eight months. I mean, I’m fairly event oriented. I like to engage with the public as much as possible. So we’ve got Travis Johnson coming up in May for a space school. We will have Kaka Grova coming out in either late September, early to mid-October for women’s and co-ed sort of school. And we haven’t really determined what the topic of that’s gonna be. So, and she’s in, you know, she’s a energetic, super excited, just permanently wears a smile on her face personality. That’ll be fun to introduce to this region. Dave McCoy (56m 57s): And found out, she just used to, she used to live in Seattle for a few years, found that out a couple days ago. Sandy River Spay Clay is coming up with Marty and Mia and, and Wet Fly or with Swing The Fly. Dave Stewart (57m 10s): Yep. Swing the Fly. Yep. Dave McCoy (57m 11s): Yep. Zach. So that’s something to look forward to down on Sandy. And there’s spay a Palooza event up north too, so if spa’s on your radar, you’ve got some events coming up in the near future and we’ll have ours in January again next year. Dave Stewart (57m 26s): Okay. That’s, I was gonna ask you that. So January and do you typically have it a certain time just sometime in January? Yeah, Dave McCoy (57m 32s): It’s at the end of the month. It’s, I think it’s the 24th or 25th next year. And we’ve got an Instagram account for that now So that we can sort of keep people a little more publicly updated. It is Seattle Bayla, Seattle underscore Bayla, and then we have Art Walk at the store every two months and wine walk every three months. Yeah, we’ve got a lot going on. Dave Stewart (58m 0s): Oh, and, and, and that’s the art walk is that people come in the store and can look art in the store or, or you’re walking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dave McCoy (58m 7s): We’ve got a lot of really cool art from a lot of people in the sport in the store, and some of it’s for sale. A lot of it’s just to admire and Yeah. So it, it’s worth, it’s worth a visit if you’re, if you’re making it to Seattle and we’re on the side of the city of the airport, so it’s a pretty easy jaunt from the airport too. Dave Stewart (58m 26s): Yep. Perfect. Yeah. Well, I’ll, Dave, I’ll definitely try to hit you up next time and, and be there. I’ll, I’ll give you a heads up and so we can meet up it, it’s been a little while since I think one of the shows we connected with, but yeah, I mean, either way, maybe I can make it up to your spay event next year as well in January. That’s a good time to, to head up there. Gimme an excuse to get back to Seattle. Dave McCoy (58m 45s): Yeah, well, I’d love to see you and we, it’s not like we can’t reach out to one another, so just let me know when you’re coming up. Okay. I’ll let you know if I’m coming down too. Dave Stewart (58m 54s): Awesome. All right, Dave. Well I appreciate the time today. We’ll send everybody out to emerald water anglers.com and, and Oh, hey, one more thing before we get out here. Is the podcast still going? I know you did some episodes, are you still doing episodes out there? Yeah, Dave McCoy (59m 5s): I’ve got one tentatively coming that I’m still working out details on. Believe it’s gonna be Tim Ray. Jeff. Oh, nice. And we’ll be doing it out on the water talking about, oh wow. Rod Design and, and Cool. Just sort of how that company started and where he sees everything now and be doing it while we’re fishing for Sea Run cutthroat probably. So it’ll be, it’ll be a fun one. Dave Stewart (59m 28s): So that’s what’s cool about you, right? You’re making a little different there. So you’re on the water doing some stuff, which is not easy to do, but that’s great. Dave McCoy (59m 34s): No, it’s not. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s, they’re longer, you know, a lot of ours are two hours, two and a half, so set it up for a long drive or a long plane ride or something like Dave Stewart (59m 43s): That. What’s the name of the podcast again? Dave McCoy (59m 46s): It is EWA Undercurrent. Yeah, Dave Stewart (59m 48s): Undercurrent. Okay, cool. We’ll put a link to the show notes on that one. We’ll take a look. Yeah, Steve’s or, I mean Tim, Steve, we’ve been working on hopefully getting Steve on ours, but Tim, that would be cool. Tim is one of the biggest, I think, podcast episodes we’ve had over the past year or since, so, but Good. All right, Dave, we’ll definitely appreciate your time today. We’ll be in touch and thanks again. Yeah, Dave McCoy (1h 0m 8s): Dave, thanks for the opportunity buddy. Wish you the best and I’ll talk to you soon. Dave Stewart (1h 0m 14s): Quick call to action for you today. If you get a chance touch base with Dave, you can go to emerald water anglers.com. If you’re passing through Seattle in the area or fishing up north for spay, whatever you’re doing, check in with Dave. Let him know you heard this podcast. And if you get a chance, check out his podcast, that episode with Yvonne Chenard. We’ll also have a link to the one we did as well. If you have a chance, please subscribe to this podcast, follow the show on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you listen, that would help you assure that next episode gets delivered into your inbox. And we’ve got another good one. The next one In the Bucket, Jeff Liske, who was actually up at Dave McCoy’s, spay Clave, and Jeff is gonna have another episode of In The Bucket. I don’t have that topic for you right now, but it will be good as always. Dave Stewart (1h 0m 57s): So stay tuned and subscribe for that. If you haven’t yet checked out our Missouri River Dryly School yet, you can do that right now. Wetly swing.com/missouri. You could also send me an email, dave@wetlyswing.com and I’ll let you know what’s going on there. We’re putting together an amazing trip for the end of the summer. If you’re interested, get in on that right now. Thanks for stopping In today. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Hope you’re having a great afternoon. If you’re having a spectacular evening or if it’s morning, hope you have a good morning. Talk to you then. 4 (1h 1m 25s): Thanks for listening to the Wet Fly Swing Fly fishing show. For notes and links from this episode, visit wet fly swing.com.