Traveled #34 | Fly Fishing Henry’s Fork Lodge with Nelson Ishiyama

00:00:00 Dave: Today’s guest has spent more than five decades studying trout, bugs and water, from the casting ponds of Golden Gate Park to the legendary pools of the Henrys Fork. In this episode, we’re going to dig into the history and design of one of the West’s most iconic fly fishing lodges. How a world class architect and lifelong angler helped shape its vision, and why. Today’s guests believe service and conservation belong at the heart of every great fly fishing experience. This is the travel podcast series where we bring you to some of the greatest places in the West to fish the tools you need to prepare for that big trip, and the mindset to make every trip count. Nelson Ishihama, owner of the Henry’s Fork Lodge, shares his story from San Francisco’s casting ponds to building one of Idaho’s most iconic and admired fly fishing lodges. We’re going to talk about his love of sight fishing, his favorite flies, how he gets into it there on the Henry’s Fork, and what his ongoing work to protect the waters all depend on. This episode is presented by Visit Idaho and Yellowstone. Teton territory, home to some of the most diverse and wild trout waters in the West. All right, let’s jump into it. Here he is, Nelson Nishiyama. You can find him at Henry’s Fork Lodge. Com. How are you doing, Nelson? 00:01:12 Nelson: Very well. Dave. Thanks. Nice to meet you online. 00:01:16 Dave: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It’s great to meet you. Um, you know, you’re in a place that we’ve talked a lot about. The Henry’s Fork is a famous river. You’ve got a lodge there. We’re going to talk about the Henry’s Fork Lodge, everything you have going. And you have a long history in fly fishing. You know, I know you have some of that in your background. The Henry’s Fork is known as a very technical fishery. So we’re going to talk about that as well. But first off, um, you know, how are things going this time of year? We’re kind of in the October, you know, fall range. Are you guys pretty busy this time of year? What’s that look like? 00:01:45 Nelson: Well, ordinarily we go till about the first week of October, which is right now. So we’ve just closed the lodge and I’ve just driven back home to California, where I really live, but I spend five months of the year up in Idaho at my lodge. 00:02:01 Dave: Yeah. And so maybe just for clarifications on the lodge, because there are a few lodges out in that area. Maybe describe that. What is the other? So you got the Henry’s Fork Lodge and are there some other ones nearby you. 00:02:13 Nelson: There are. There’s one on the South Fork called the South Fork Lodge. That’s Jimmy Kimmel’s place. Uh, there’s Three Rivers Ranch, which is an old time lodge on the on the river. And, um, there are several others. Yeah. Farther away. But ours is one of the prominent ones, I’d say. 00:02:32 Dave: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Well, we’re going to talk more about some of your staff there, and we’re going to talk fishing. Like I said, get into maybe some fly tying stuff like that. But let’s take it back. I always love because you’ve got some years behind you. And, uh, and I’d love to hear how you first got into fly fishing and really. And then how the lodge came to be. 00:02:49 Nelson: Sure. It’s a bit of a story, but, um, I started fly fishing when I was, Oh, a teenager. A friend of my dad’s sent me every Christmas a subscription to Field and Stream, so I read. Al McLean and Ted Trueblood and Ted Trueblood in particular, was a Western guy from Idaho, so he got me interested in fishing via his columns every month. And, uh, so I just learned sort of in the backyard how to cast and that sort of thing. And by reading the stuff in field and stream and, um, luckily, I live in the Bay Area of California, and there’s the Golden Gate Angling and Casting Club in San Francisco. And there were all these really prominent, knowledgeable, famous guys who were members there. And by hanging out there for a few years, I really got into fly fishing and kind of all its aspects fly tying, casting, travel, the whole thing. And, um, so I was very fortunate to hang out with some really prominent, fly fishers Mel Krieger, Andy Johns, who was a fly tiger, Jim Adams, who’s a collector of old tackle, and many other just ordinary guys who were members of the place but who were really, really good casters, really good fly tires, really experienced fly fishermen. There was a fellow named Mike Fong, who was a writer for most of the outdoor magazines, and he and I became good friends and fished together as I was sort of growing up in fly fishing. And I learned a lot from him and from all those other people at the Casting Ponds and in the Bay area of San Francisco. 00:04:35 Dave: Wow. And we’ve talked probably, maybe as much with people who have been connected to the casting club as anything else because, you know, you do lots of famous people. You mentioned a lot of them. Then you’ve got the Rajeff brothers, of course. Yes. You know, and we’ve had Tim on the podcast multiple times. And it’s just it feels like. I’m not sure why that, you know, I know we’ve talked about some of the stories, but that area, what made you know, is that what it was the casting club, just because there were so many famous people there, why was that the place? Why was that the hub of really the hub of a lot of the tech, the improvements and fly fishing too. 00:05:09 Nelson: Right. Well, Northern California was a hub of steelhead fishing. Mhm. Pacific salmon fishing. And Northern California generally was a great trout fishing area. And uh, somehow back in the nineteen thirties, the federal government built casting ponds in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco. And that was sort of the headquarters. That was the attraction, the magnet that caused all these people to gather in a club, a public club, right? 00:05:38 Dave: Public. Yeah. Anybody can go still this day. Right? This is not it’s never been a private club. Anybody can go there and cast. 00:05:43 Nelson: Yes and no. Originally there was a club that was both, um, it split into two in the. The ordinary people stayed in Golden Gate Park at the casting ponds when they were built. And there’s another group that went off on their own and formed a private club. The wealthier members, and some of them were also members of the of the Golden Gate Casting Club. 00:06:07 Dave: Okay. 00:06:08 Nelson: The public one. So it really gathered a huge number of really experienced and knowledgeable anglers. So it’s a place where if you were serious about fly fishing, you just wanted to join. Yeah. And even now, I mean, I think it costs forty dollars a year to join. So it’s not a very exclusive club. 00:06:26 Dave: No, no, it’s that’s well worth it. And do you still ever go there to the casting club? 00:06:30 Nelson: As soon as we get off this podcast, that’s where I’m going. No kidding. Saturday morning I go. 00:06:35 Dave: That’s amazing. So when you go back there, what do you do when you go back to the casting club? 00:06:39 Nelson: Well, we always do a little casting. That’s our excuse for going. But we talk about fishing and I just got back from Idaho, so I’ve got a lot of stuff to talk about, and I’ll hear from other friends of mine who have been doing other fishing trips. So they hang out, have coffee. 00:06:55 Dave: Yeah. Do you just hang out? Because it’s not like a giant building. There’s a little lodge there, which is really cool with the photos and and all that. We actually had a podcast with the gentleman who is kind of running things up there, but he, um, but it’s a small little area. Are you hanging out in the lodge or are you just hanging out outside? 00:07:11 Nelson: No, outside. We’ve got rides. Everybody brings a few rides and we try each other’s rides. And luckily, you know, there’s some guys who make rides who bring their new stuff for us to try. Larry Kenny, who makes fiberglass rods, and several others who make bamboo rods. And of course, we all have our own graphite rods as well. Yeah. So we get to try everything. 00:07:32 Dave: That’s so cool. And so yeah, that makes total sense. Just like fishing, right? Just it’s a place to hang out, talk to old friends, chat about, you know, trips, um, all that stuff. So, you know, it sounds like. Yeah, you’ve been doing this a long time. When did the lodge, the Henry’s Fork Lodge, one of the most famous lodges out there. When did that idea or possibility come to be? 00:07:51 Nelson: Well, that’s I started that in nineteen ninety. So thirty five years ago. 00:07:55 Dave: Mhm. 00:07:56 Nelson: Um, I didn’t have a plan to do that, but a friend of mine showed me a piece of property on the river, and I took a look at it and I, I wasn’t in the market to do anything, buy a lot for a house or anything. But when I looked at it, I thought, man, this would be a perfect place for a lodge. And that sort of started the whole process. 00:08:16 Dave: There it is. So at the time, nineteen ninety, which is a great time, right? That was just before A River Runs Through. It came out all that stuff. What was what was what did that area look like then? What did it look a lot different. 00:08:28 Nelson: It did look a lot different. It was always a well-known fly fishing place, but it wasn’t, you know, heavily populated to begin with. And even during the summer, there were, you know, the avid, avid anglers were there, but there weren’t it wasn’t super crowded. but it’s changed considerably since then. Now there’s an additional fly shop or two. There was Henry’s Fork Anglers. Now there’s another one right across the street called trout Hunter. 00:08:55 Dave: Oh yeah. 00:08:56 Nelson: And so there are, you know, twenty, thirty guides working every day. And, um, we benefit from that, from, uh, we use their guides. 00:09:05 Dave: Oh, right. Gotcha. Yeah. So you’re mainly a lodge, and so all the guiding service people can go through. Which guide outfitter are you using? 00:09:12 Nelson: Well, we use for guides for outfitters, I should say. Um, we have Henry’s Fork Anglers and Trout Hunter. And then up in, uh, West Yellowstone, we’ve got big sky anglers, and then we’ve got an outfitter also down in the South Fork that guides the South Fork. 00:09:30 Dave: So, okay. 00:09:31 Nelson: The guests at the lodge can go in every direction. They can go into Yellowstone Park with big Sky. They can go to the Henry’s Fork and the Madison and with the Henry’s Fork Work. Anglers, trout hunter and anglers. Then down on the South Fork. We send people down there to fish the Teton and the South Fork. So we’re pretty well diversified. So no matter what the season or the conditions, we’ve got some pretty good places to go. 00:09:57 Dave: Amazing. And where the lodge is located, which is just a stone’s throw right from the Henrys Fork, is can you fish? Can you just walk out there and fish from the lodge? 00:10:05 Nelson: Yeah, literally you can’t. The water with the stone with the stone’s throw. 00:10:10 Dave: Right. Wow. 00:10:11 Nelson: We’re right on the bank, and we’re elevated about thirty feet above the water. So you can get a vista of the river. And the other side is twenty five miles of Forest Service. So there’s there are no other buildings or people on the other. 00:10:25 Dave: Oh, wow. So it’s all Forest Service? Yeah, yeah. So basically, yeah, you’ve got the come in on the road on the highway there, drop into the lodge, and then you’re just looking out at whatever thousands of acres of Forest Service land. 00:10:37 Nelson: Exactly. 00:10:38 Dave: That’s amazing. And then the Henry’s Fork itself. You know, it’s kind of known as a technical fishery. What really took you draw, you know, kind of got you excited when you first were in that area. 00:10:49 Nelson: Well, I, you know, I’d read about the Henry’s Fork and it sounded really interesting. Fascinating. But it’s not just the technical Spring Creek type of fishery. It starts out in a canyon, the Box Canyon, which is three and a half miles of fairly fast, turbulent water. And that’s a basically a boat fishing proposition with nymphs or streamers occasionally when the salmon flies are out. There’s some dry fly fishing there. And then below that there’s eight miles, seven to eight miles of Harriman State Park. And that’s the sort of Wimbledon of fly fishing or the Yankee Stadium of fly fishing. And if you want to challenge yourself to catch some of these large, selective fish, that’s the place to go to school. 00:11:36 Dave: That’s it. Harriman. So that’s below the box canyon and above you guys a little bit. 00:11:40 Nelson: Exactly. And then below Harriman, the river quickly goes into a canyon. That’s. Oh, I can’t recall exactly how far it is. Eight or ten miles of canyon water. That’s pretty hard to get to, but you can do it in a drift boat and a sort of a hairy climb down into the canyon, and then it goes down into the farm country about fifteen hundred feet in elevation, down below, and for about another at least twenty miles. The river is fished primarily by drift boats, but also by wading, and that is both dry fly fishing and fishing and streamer fishing. So you’ve got all the various kinds of and styles of fishing and the levels of experience you might need to fish at all. So being in the fishing lodge business, you need waters that are suitable for beginners and waters that are suitable for were sophisticated anglers and pretty much everything in between. And luckily, the Henrys Fork in one river gives you the whole spectrum. 00:12:43 Dave: Oh it does. So that’s the cool thing. It gives you everything. So if you’re a brand new person to fly fishing, you’ve never casted a rod. You could find a spot in the Henrys Fork and have a chance to catch a fish there. 00:12:53 Nelson: Absolutely. So I should probably, you know, or should probably be made known that it’s not just a technical right, you know, place. It’s a very open, wide ranging kind of place. 00:13:06 Dave: Because that’s what it’s known for. If you don’t look into it too far, you might think like, oh, man, I’m not ready for the Henry’s Fork yet. It’s too it’s above my level. Right. But you’re saying that’s not true? That’s not true. 00:13:15 Nelson: Definitely not true. I mean, we have some groups that come to the lodge like a corporate group where. Yeah, maybe the head person is a fly fisher, and he wants to invite a bunch of his business colleagues, and they’ve never fished before. Yeah. And we can get them outfitted and send them fishing, and they’ll have a fantastic time, even if they’re complete beginners. 00:13:36 Dave: Wow. But you do have the other levels. And. And what separates? Why do you have, like, the Harriman State Park? Why is that one so technical? Is it just because there’s bigger fish there and more people fishing for them? Or what makes that different than, say, the easier sections? 00:13:51 Nelson: Um, it’s a spring creek, and so it’s very placid and the fish are pretty wary and selective. And the hatches in that sort of meadow type of stream are very prolific and varied and changing all the time. So that’s what separates it from the rest of the water. That’s maybe a little more turbulent, a little more forgiving, and maybe prone to having, uh, more nymph fishing as opposed to rising fish. But, um, it’s not crowded because it is technical and it’s not everybody’s cup of tea. 00:14:27 Dave: Yeah, you might go in there and you might get skunked. Is that kind of the case? In some days you might. 00:14:31 Nelson: Not unusual at all. I mean, for even experienced anglers. But it’s such a magnificent, beautiful place. It’s, uh, sixteen thousand acre state park. Um, the main activity is fly fishing and, uh, in a spectacular setting in a giant caldera. A volcanic caldera. So. Wow. 00:14:53 Dave: That is cool. Yeah. And then, and so that’s kind of the Harriman State Park. And that puts us in the, you know, our geography of where you’re at kind of right in the middle of it. Talk about your fishing a little bit. I know you’re interested in a bunch of different things. What’s your are you more kind of dry fly. Do you do a little bit of everything? 00:15:09 Nelson: I’ve done a little bit of everything quite a bit. But my favorite is dry fly fishing and um, and sight fishing in particular. I mean, I like to fish for fish that I can see and target. So I fish in places like New Zealand where you see the fish in the water, it may not be rising, may be nymphing for the fish, but you’re intentionally Targeting a particular fish, and that’s kind of the most fun for me. And you know, when it goes saltwater fishing, I like to go bonefishing where you’re sight fishing or tarpon fishing. That kind of fishing. 00:15:42 Dave: Yeah. Seeing the fish, it seems like that’s the you know, I don’t know if that’s the top, but that’s not easy. Right. But it’s also being able to see the fish take a fly. It’s hard to beat that right. 00:15:52 Nelson: Yep, yep. 00:15:53 Dave: Huh. All right. And and so and also now etymology. Talk about that a little bit. Have you been, uh, done some studying? Do you know the hatches really well out there? I saw some of that in your bio. 00:16:03 Nelson: Yeah. I think if you fish the Henry’s Fork, you have to become somewhat familiar with bugs because they change through the season and they change, of course, from river to river. Um, but when I was at the Golden Gate Casting Club, I don’t know, thirty years ago, there was a professor from UC Berkeley who was an entomology professor, and he gave a course at Cal on entomology. And most of the people who took that class were fly fishers, and there were some undergraduate students who were also in it. So I got a pretty formal start in learning about entomology. And then I just read all the fly fishing, uh, entomology books and fly tying books and learn about it that way. 00:16:47 Dave: Right, right, right. So you have that background and then what are the big hatches that are out there? What if somebody was going to pick one big hatch? What do you think would be a good one to shoot for? 00:16:57 Nelson: Well, I guess on the on the flatwater, on the Henrys, on the Harriman Park section, it would be the green Drake that happens in late May. And at the same time, there’s an evening hatch called the Brown drake. And so the green drakes are maybe size ten mayflies and the brown drakes even slightly bigger, maybe a size ten. Yeah. So they’re easy to see. Um, and the fish obviously get all excited when those big bugs come out. So that’s two of the most prominent ones, but on the, um, on the faster water, like in the Box Canyon and the Lower Henrys Fork, we’ve got the salmon fly and the Golden Stone, and those are late May, early June hatches. So that first month or so has the most prominent big, big bugs. But then we’ve got other insects that fill up the dance card for the rest of the rest of the. 00:17:55 Dave: Year, the rest of the time. What about this time of year? So right now we’re talking it’s mid-October. We’re going to be going into November. Are there any hatches going on there now? 00:18:03 Nelson: Sure. This time the most prominent hatch is probably the batus, the blue wing olive, the size eighteen or twenty. And then there are some, uh, mahogany duns which are dark brown mayfly that’s about a size sixteen or eighteen. Um, and then of course, all year round there are midges. 00:18:22 Dave: Yeah. That’s right, the midges. So, so yeah. So you can fish. I mean, I guess eventually you get the snow and things shut down. Or is it because of the Spring Creek? Can you fish that year round? 00:18:32 Nelson: Well, theoretically you can fish it, but it’s, uh, you know, it gets quite cold at six thousand two hundred elevation. So there’s not a lot of people fishing up there, but down in the farm country, it can be fished kind of all year round. And any time the the air temperature is around forty degrees, you see people out there fly fishing, the locals. Nobody’s traveling to fish in forty degree weather, I don’t think. 00:18:56 Dave: Right, right. So you’re. And so you shut down the lodge early October, you said. And then when do you open it back up? 00:19:01 Nelson: Uh, Memorial Day weekend, which is the official opening day of trout season in Idaho. 00:19:06 Dave: Oh, it is okay, so Memorial Day. So basically it’s closed for a decent amount of time through the. It is. Yeah. And then Memorial Day, that’s because yeah, the Henry’s fork is closed until that time. So it’s open. 00:19:17 Nelson: It’s actually the parts of it are open but a good part of it are open. But um, as a practical matter, it’s the salmon flies and Memorial Day and the opener that really kicks off the activity, right? 00:19:29 Dave: God that’s great. Okay. So if you’re planning a trip here and want to go to the lodge, then, um, yeah, between Memorial Day and October is your time. Is that something? Getting a spot at the lodge? Is that, um, you got to do that in advance? Quite a bit. Or do you guys have, like, last minute openings, stuff like that? 00:19:46 Nelson: Oh, no, we have last minute, not even last minute openings. We have openings, you know, but not during the, the primest of prime time, which I’d say would be, oh, June and mid-July. I mean, people, when they walk out the door already have made a reservation for the following year. Yeah. So that’s a pretty hard nut to crack. But there’s still openings during that time. People cycle out and new people come in, but that’s the busiest time. 00:20:16 Dave: Maybe describe the lodge a little bit for somebody that hasn’t been there. I mean, it looks obviously amazing. You’re a stone’s throw from the river. Maybe talk about your original concept or your design and is it exactly what you envisioned, or was this something that kind of evolved over the years? 00:20:31 Nelson: Yeah, no, I think it’s a combination. Luckily, one of the members of the Golden Gate Casting Club back then was a man named Joe Esherick, Joseph Esherick, and he’s probably the most prominent architect in California history. And he’s been in the, you know, the Hall of Fame back in Washington, D.C., for architects. 00:20:50 Dave: No kidding. What was his name again? 00:20:52 Nelson: Joseph Esherick. 00:20:54 Dave: Okay. 00:20:54 Nelson: He was the dean of the architecture school at UC Berkeley. Wow. And he’s won every award you can win for architecture in California. And he was a fly fisherman, so he was the perfect, perfect choice. Um, he was a really avid fly fisherman. He had a weighted fly rod, but by his telephone in his office, and when he’s talking to somebody on the phone, he’d be exercising his forearm by casting this weight. It’s like a fungo bat in baseball. 00:21:27 Dave: Right? 00:21:28 Nelson: Yeah. And so he would use that to strengthen his forearm for his casting. 00:21:32 Dave: Oh, my God, that’s so good. 00:21:34 Nelson: So he was the natural guy to design the lodge, and I was just lucky to run across him. And I was actually too intimidated to even call him up to ask him for an appointment. So I had a friend who knew him better than I did or knew him at all, and I asked him to sort of give me an introduction. And of course, Joe was very welcoming, and he jumped at the chance to design a fishing lodge, since he had never designed one. He designed nice houses and all kinds of other wonderful buildings, but had never worked with a fly fisherman on a lodge. So it was a great marriage, actually. 00:22:13 Dave: Yeah. And did you just meet with him and say, hey, this is yours, design something? or did you give them some thoughts or some ideas on it? 00:22:20 Nelson: I gave them some thoughts. I wanted it to be a very first class place, and I wanted it to be a particular size. And, you know, the first time we met, I said, we have to just go up there and I can show you what I’m looking at and looking for. And, uh, so he immediately got some ideas, but he wanted to go around the area and look at barns and look at other rustic buildings in the area to get a feel for the sort of the the environment in which he was going to be designing a building and being a genius. He came up with a fantastic building that, um, got some notoriety in architectural magazines. 00:23:03 Dave: Oh it did. Yeah. And you guys have, uh, dining. Is that all included, or do you have that at the lodge? 00:23:09 Nelson: We do. We have three chefs and a breakfast cook. So we’re well covered in the, in the food business. And, so people come to the lodge, and that’s one of the things they, they take away from their stay is that it’s the food. 00:23:24 Dave: Yeah. 00:23:25 Nelson: It’s like top restaurant in a city. 00:23:28 Dave: Right, right. Exactly. Yeah. And that seems to be, you know, we’ve done some traveling and it seems like the food is one of those, you know, kind of X factors or whatever. It’s, you know, you get good food and amazing food and you sometimes, you know, even when the fishing can be tough, you know, you go back and you have a nice dinner or, you know, whatever you’re feeling, you’re still it’s a good day. Right. Yeah. Having that amazing, um, good. And so you mentioned a little bit any, you know, we’re kind of covering, you know, high level stuff here. I, I really want to talk a little bit about, you know, maybe some on patterns, you know, like if you were going out there, do you still get out there when you go there, you’re there for five months. Are you doing any fishing? Are you working? What are you doing there? 00:24:06 Nelson: Well, why would I have a fishing lodge if I didn’t fish? 00:24:11 Dave: Exactly. Well, the funny thing is, is you hear. It’s funny because we talked to a lot of fly shop owners especially. And you hear sometimes that they, you know, you buy a fly shop and then you end up being stuck in the fly shop. And it’s interesting though, because when you talk, I know you mentioned off air that, you know, Yvon Chouinard and we’ve had him on the podcast and you actually sound a lot like Yvon. You know what I mean? Your voice sounds a lot like him, but I know it’s obviously all about the fishing. So you get out there and do a little bit while you’re there. 00:24:37 Nelson: I do. Um, I’d like to get to know all the guests in the lodge individually, so I’m there every morning when they’re at breakfast, and I’m there every evening when they’re having dinner. And while they’re out fishing, they don’t know quite what I’m doing. But often that means going out and fishing. Although lately I’ve been doing more, um, other things. Uh, I’ve been trying to deal with some issues of unwise development in places nearby and. Sure, so but I but yeah, I fished there a lot. I wouldn’t be seven days a week, but a few days a week anyway. 00:25:15 Dave: Yeah. You’re getting out there. Awesome. Yeah. So you’re so you’re also there still? Yeah. Like anywhere there’s some, uh, conservation issues and things that you’re aware of. And that’s one of the things Yvonne and Craig, obviously we talked a lot about on that podcast we did, I think I think everything Yvonne talked about was focused on, you know, protecting our home planet. Right? I think that that’s always his mind is that sounds like you’re into that that field or you’re thinking a lot about that as well. 00:25:39 Nelson: Very much so. Yeah. Um, we’re supporters of of course, the Henry’s Fork Foundation, the Nature Conservancy and a lot of other organizations and trying to help them out both financially and by, you know, being an activist. 00:25:55 Dave: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. No. I think that it’s a it’s an interesting time because of some changes. Right. And, you know, not only development but you have climate change. There’s things going on and, you know, all that. Do you find, um, you know, have you seen some changes in hatches and things like that in the area, you know, since you’ve been out there over the years. 00:26:14 Nelson: Yes. The hatches have changed. And as you may know, there’s a fellow who’s been writing about the decline in mayflies generally and, um, that’s worldwide. And I suspect it has a lot to do with climate change. Yeah, but I’d say in the Henry’s Fork, the prominent hatches are still there. They’re still on the same timetable, whether they’re quite as prolific as they used to be. Hard for me to say, because from year to year, you know, the trichos may be fantastic. One year and the Green Drakes fantastic another year. It’s it’s kind of hard to know in a bigger, larger scale. 00:26:53 Dave: Yeah. That’s right. Okay. So and who do you know who that person is that’s been tracking the decline in mayflies or writing about it? 00:27:00 Nelson: Um, no. And he called me up. 00:27:03 Dave: Oh he did. 00:27:04 Nelson: Out of the blue. I have no idea why he found my name, but he did call me up, and he asked me some of the same kind of questions you’re asking me, and I gave him the same kind of answer that I, you know, that I have to be honest, that I’m not sure why, but I do detect that there are probably fewer mayflies than there used to be. Not species, but particularly just numbers of particular species. So anyway, um, so mystery to me, but it’s definitely happening. 00:27:36 Dave: It is. Yeah. We’ll try to look that up and maybe find some information on that and put that in the show notes and, but yeah, but if you were to go there, like we said, the times that we’re talking about, you’re likely going to see plenty of bugs out there. And so how was this year? So you were out there now or like you said, we’re talking it’s October. Um, was it pretty good fishing? Did you have any any stories from the year that you are thinking about? 00:27:57 Nelson: Yeah, I’d say the fishing on the Henry’s Fork. Um, varied, depending on where you are in the part on the Harriman Ranch, I’d have to say was very slow compared to normal years. And the lower river in the box canyon, which are the faster water, which is, you know, faster, more broken water. That was quite good. But I’d say that maybe it’s unknowable what the cause is, but I suspect it was poor spawning four years ago. So the. 00:28:28 Dave: Oh. 00:28:29 Nelson: The senior class is sort of missing or diminished. And, um, hopefully that won’t be true this coming year where the the juniors will have graduated and become, oh, sixteen to eighteen inches or whatever. 00:28:44 Dave: Okay. Yeah. Describe that a little bit. So our fish spawning, um, you know, it’s a spring creek. So are they spawning all over the place or are there certain areas they’re going to to spawn? 00:28:53 Nelson: No, I’d say on the upper part of the Henry’s Fork, they’re spawning primarily in the Box Canyon. The fish from Harriman Ranch will migrate upstream into that more, faster water. More suitable for spawning. 00:29:07 Dave: Yeah, right. 00:29:08 Nelson: And, uh, so I called your classes, you know, freshmen, sophomores, juniors and seniors. And I’m always looking for the fifth year seniors to write. And there are a fair number of those still around there to be the twenty inch plus fish, which are quite a challenge. 00:29:26 Dave: Yeah. So you might if you take it back, you might have a couple of fish that spawn, say in twenty twenty, and then the progeny of those fish that could be thousands go out as fry and then they are in there and then, you know, two years later I guess. Yeah. How long does it take? They’re probably growing pretty fast because there’s a lot of food there. Is it. 00:29:45 Nelson: They do. They grow fast. And um, one study um, long ago said that those fish grow an inch a month. 00:29:54 Dave: Oh, wow. 00:29:56 Nelson: So that’s pretty fast. I mean, I think they have to get up to a certain minimum size before they can put on that much length and weight, but once they get sizable, they grow fast because of the prolific bugs. 00:30:08 Dave: Okay. And what is a large fish? I mean, what’s the largest fish you’ve heard of that’s been caught out there? 00:30:14 Nelson: Oh, I mean, on the ranch, I’d say a two footer would be the max that I’ve ever seen. Um, but there are a lot of sixteen to eighteen inches, and those are the ones that most people are hoping to catch. 00:30:28 Dave: Yeah. I always feel like the sixteen to eighteen or even the maybe it’s the fifteen to seventeen that range. They’re the like you said, the they’re the prime. You know they’re probably they’re not the they’re not the, the you know, the seventy year old or not the twenty year old. They’re right in the prime, whatever that age is. And they do. They do. You get a lot of fish that are jumping. They’re very active and all that. 00:30:47 Nelson: Absolutely. Yeah. They’re in great shape. 00:30:50 Dave: Okay. What about you know, you mentioned, um, you know, we talked about different levels of people there for a beginner. What sort of advice would you have? Let’s say somebody was listening here and they’re not super. You know, maybe they’re they can cast the rod. But before they get there, what would you be telling them? Advice if they’re staying at your place? 00:31:07 Nelson: Um, well, listen to the guide. Yeah, take a guide. It’s pretty tough to go out on the Harriman Ranch all by yourself the first time and expect to catch a lot of fish. Nobody catches a lot of fish on the ranch. But, um, the other thing is, you don’t need any specialized equipment. A five weight rod, eight and a half. Okay, just the standard stuff. But paying attention to the guide and paying attention to the fish or the primary things. Um, and my advice actually goes not so much to the guests. I figure that’s kind of the guide’s bailiwick. That’s what the guide is there for. But I try and coach the guides. I shouldn’t say that out loud, right? But I try and meet the guides and understand what they’re like. And if I give them any suggestion. I hate to call it advice, but yes, it is is to figure out what’s going to make the individual guest’s day. And that varies from person to person. Some people are expert. They don’t need a lot of technical help. They need transportation and they need, you know, um, they don’t need anybody to tie their flies on. But with beginners, they need all kinds of help, both in the fishing part and also in other respects. Um, some guests come and they want their son or daughter to love fly fishing. And so I asked the guides to figure out what’s going to make that individual client and partner what’s going to make their day. And it varies from person to person. And I would say with a lot of women anglers who are learning because their spouse is already an avid angler, they want to learn about casting and bugs and things like that, and they don’t necessarily need to catch a ton of fish. And that’s what the guide needs to figure out and guide to is whatever’s going to make that particular anglers day. And it varies from person to person. And so guides can’t be sort of a one trick pony. They have to be able to adapt. And so it’s more, in my view, about how the guide can help make the client’s day. And the client needs to express whatever they want to do. But it’s really up to the guide to be a bit of a mind reader. 00:33:36 Dave: Step into the world where the river whispers and the fishing is nothing short of legendary. This year I ventured into the heart of eastern Idaho, Yellowstone, Teton Territory, where the fish were larger than life, and the waters held the secrets of the best fly fishing out West Yellowstone. Teton territory is not just a location, it’s a gateway to adventures that will etch themselves into your memory. With crystal clear rivers like the Henrys Fork and the South Fork of the snake, and enough lakes to keep you going all year long. Make your way to Yellowstone, Teton Territory, and embark on a journey to one of North America’s finest fly fishing destinations. Whether you’re planning your trip now or just dreaming it up, the white is where those dreams turn into reality. Remember Yellowstone, Teton territory? That’s Teton t e o n. It’s time to experience eastern Idaho for yourself and support this podcast at the same time. Yeah, the good guides. You find that it’s like the guy that, you know, he can figure out whether he needs to be right up in the pocket of the client, you know, and, you know, talking to him all the time, or if he can sit back and just. 00:34:42 Nelson: Exactly. 00:34:43 Dave: Right, let that person just enjoy the day without, you know, like, yeah, yeah. You find that we we have we’ve been lucky enough to do some traveling through our, with our program and with listeners of the podcast. And, you know, we’ve run into a number of those great guides. You know, we always go back. I like to go back to Jeff Linsky, who’s kind of our steelhead out in the Great Lakes. And, um, and he’s just one of those guys that, you know what I mean? He kind of knows what you need. And also there’s also the expectations, I think just write a guide asking you at the front, like making sure you know the expectations of what you’re getting and you’re not going to come in there and just catch like twenty fish over twenty inches. Right? It’s like knowing that, hey, you could get skunked. It’s almost like steelhead fishing, right? I mean, that’s the same thing. It’s like, hey, you might not touch a fish today. And understanding that, it sounds like, you know, I mean, I’m guessing, like you said, that happens sometimes, but, you know, what is it about? So you have the fishing. Obviously that’s a big part of it. You have the lodge staying at your place. What other factors are in the whole process of making somebody’s trip amazing up there? Is that pretty much it, staying at your lodge and catching a few fish or what are your thoughts there? 00:35:45 Nelson: No, there’s you know, Yellowstone Park is forty five minute drive away. So there’s that and there’s, uh, you know, there’s so much to learn about the the area and the. We’ve got animals, we’ve got moose, we’ve got bear, we’ve got buffalo. Elk. Yeah. Well, buffalo in the park, but just around the Henry’s Fork, we’ve got elk and deer and moose and bear antelope. So there’s a lot to see. And if you’re a birder, there’s a, you know, spectacular array of birds around, uh, the Henry’s fork. Um, as a matter of fact, part of the Henry’s Fork, the railroad ranch, the owners, when they donated their sixteen thousand acre ranch, set aside a certain part as a bird refuge. And that’s why the ranch opens about two weeks later than the rest of all of Idaho. Is because the original donors were trying to protect the nesting birds. So it’s a sanctuary for for wildlife and birds and, uh, a great place for birders. 00:36:46 Dave: Wow, that’s so cool. Do you find do you think about that sometimes? Um, you know, you still got plenty of years ahead of you. But you know your legacy. Like how you leave the area, what you leave the lodge like or because I know you’re into the we talked about the conservation. What are your thoughts there? 00:37:02 Nelson: Yeah. No, I hope one of the legacies is conservation. Um, because there’s a lot of pressure for development in our area because it’s so beautiful and unspoiled, I’d say. And, um, there are a lot of people who would like to make some money by developing it. And that’s a constant pressure. And I’d like to think that some of the things I’ve been doing is to try and preserve the, the nature of the, the area. 00:37:28 Dave: Right. Yeah. It’s interesting because it’s kind of a, you know, a real the development thing is kind of interesting because like, if you look at your lodge, right, at some point you go back. It was built in the nineties. Right. 00:37:38 Nelson: So built in nineteen ninety. Yep. 00:37:40 Dave: Yeah. Before that you had to develop the lodge. Right. Right. And so there was some. So it’s kind of this interesting thing that but you know, it’s what’s there. You know what’s there now. And there’s some level of development, right? That’s the thing. Like you can’t. I always go back to the Great Lakes or the, sorry, the Grand Canyon thing where I heard this story of they were trying to build like a I think it was an elevator or something into the Grand Canyon so everybody could go into it. And it’s just like, right, there’s some level of natural that you got to have. 00:38:09 Nelson: Of course. 00:38:10 Dave: You know what I mean? And so is that how you feel like what’s your take on that? Because there’s some level of development. But how do you where’s that fine line of development. 00:38:17 Nelson: Well, a lot of it has to do with the local people. You know, they they have their needs for agriculture and water. Yeah. And um, then there’s those of us who are recreation, people who want it to be preserved as well as possible. And there’s a sort of a delicate balance between, especially the agricultural community and the sportsmen community. And fortunately, we have the Henry’s Fork Foundation, which is a really top notch conservation group, and they really have been able to sort of moderate and strike the balance so that AG doesn’t overwhelm the recreational opportunities. And they’ve done a great job. And, um, one of the things I’ve done is helped the Henry’s Fork Foundation get some summer interns from Stanford, particularly kids who are interested in biology, not so much fisheries in general, but biology and conservation. And they’ve become interns for the Henry’s Fork Foundation and really helped the Foundation become a top class conservation organization. So that’s something that I, I’m pretty proud of initiating. 00:39:27 Dave: Yeah, we had, uh, the Henry’s Fork Foundation on the podcast, and we talked about all the great stuff they’re doing. That was a big part of it is that that water, you know, obviously water is the you know, there’s nothing bigger than water. You know, having it for fish, for us, for everything. And that is the thing that they’ve done a great job of building partnerships. I think that’s what it comes down to. I feel like, you know, you can, you know, basically not listen to somebody who has different ideas than you. Or you could go to the table and be like, hey, let’s find some common ground that we can agree on. And I feel like that they’ve done that, right. 00:39:59 Nelson: Yeah. I mean, water is the big issue in the West. The entire West. And so that needs some thoughtful balance between the needs of agriculture and. Yeah. And recreation as well as, you know, human needs. So. 00:40:15 Dave: Right. That’s that’s cool. What about when you go back so you actually spend more of your time in California when you’re. What are you doing over there? Are you kind of traveling for fish? Are you hanging out in the, um, you know, in the Bay area a lot? 00:40:27 Nelson: Um, well, I’ve been part of several nonprofit organizations, and also we still have some family businesses that I work on. Um, but I also try and go fishing. And then I’m going to New Zealand for three weeks, uh, in February. And I’ve been going there for the last fifteen years. Probably. Wow. For two or three weeks in the same cast of characters that go every year, we usually. There are three of us that go every year, and we usually invite one other person to go with us. And so we’ve taken Yvon Chouinard a couple. 00:41:02 Dave: Oh, he’s been there. 00:41:03 Nelson: Oh, yeah. Yeah. 00:41:04 Dave: What did he fish? Because I know Craig was talking about their new book, the Pheasant Tail book on fish and the Pheasant Tail flies. 00:41:10 Nelson: Yeah, he had a he had a little, I wouldn’t say a tough time. It was a fun time. But he and the guides had different ideas about how to catch fish. And the one, you know, one fly pheasant tail only doesn’t work in New Zealand. 00:41:27 Dave: Oh it doesn’t. 00:41:27 Nelson: Well, Yvon would tell you it does, but it doesn’t. And also he likes to fish downstream. And in New Zealand the water is so clear. If you try and get in above a fish, This, you’re going to likely spook it. And so that casting across and down or casting down is not a very effective technique. And, uh, Yvonne insisted on trying it, and he had a difficult fish. 00:41:58 Dave: He didn’t catch as many fish. 00:42:00 Nelson: He caught a beautiful fish, but an eight pound brown trout on a dry fly. So, I mean, he did fine. But yeah, it was much more effective doing it than New Zealand. The Kiwi way than. Yeah than downstream. 00:42:13 Dave: Yeah. He seems like the type of guy. Well in fact he said it on the podcast. He said that he’s done in business. He’s done everything the exact opposite of what everybody else has done throughout his career. And it’s always it’s always worked out. 00:42:25 Nelson: It’s worked out well. Yeah. 00:42:27 Dave: Yeah. So no that’s awesome. And yeah for you. But yeah. So you guys get out there, do a big trip and then, um, are you also chasing other species. Sounds like you’re into some saltwater species. Are there other any any kind of big trips in these species you haven’t hit yet that you want to still do. 00:42:42 Nelson: Yeah, I’d really like to go to the Seychelles and fish for all those, the variety of fish there. But I’ve fished a little bit for everything I went in September, I went for Mako sharks down in San Diego. 00:42:53 Dave: Oh, with Conway. 00:42:54 Nelson: With Conway Bowman. 00:42:55 Dave: Yeah, yeah. 00:42:56 Nelson: Nice. I’ve been with him three or four times. The first trip was fabulous. 00:43:00 Dave: Did you guys get some? 00:43:01 Nelson: Oh, we got lots and lots of them. And up to about one hundred and forty pounds. And I’ve had other trips, including this last one where we didn’t land any. But, um, it’s always exciting just to see the. 00:43:16 Dave: Wow. Is there any similarities between fishing for mako sharks with a fly and fishing the Henry’s Fork? 00:43:23 Nelson: Yeah. It’s visual. 00:43:24 Dave: It’s oh, it’s visual fishing. 00:43:25 Nelson: Yeah, yeah. They chum the fish up and, uh, you could see the fish right on the surface and we throw big, usually an orange colored fly. And I asked Conway, why were you using orange? he said. So you can see it. 00:43:40 Dave: Right? 00:43:40 Nelson: So it’s all very visual. You watch the fish stalk your fly. A lot of times you play cat and mouse with them. You take the fly away when he looks like he’s coming for it and get him all riled up. And then eventually, hopefully, he’ll attack it. And then the fight is on. But yeah, I fish for a little bit for Makos. I’ve fished a little bit for, uh, sailfish down in Panama, and I’ve done a little bit of fishing for, you know, the flats, fish, bonefish and tarpon. So, yeah, I like to fish for anything that’ll take a fly. 00:44:14 Dave: Yeah. Sounds like it. That’s really cool. Nice. Well, um, I wanted to get a few, uh, you know, top kind of your patterns and a few, maybe before we get out here, maybe a couple of resources. We. I did have a segment. I was going to talk about our kind of conservation corner. We’ve already really covered that, uh, today. But are there anything else you would recommend? Like, if somebody really wanted to help, um, get involved in some of the stuff to protect that area. Do you think it’s just talking to the Henry’s Fork Foundation, or what would be the best action today for them? 00:44:42 Nelson: Well, for the Henry’s Fork, clearly the Henry’s Fork Foundation. And second, I’d say most second most involved is the Nature Conservancy. They’ve purchased pretty big chunks of land to protect it from development, and they’ve been heavily involved in helping protect the land against unwise development. And that’s an ongoing current activity. But they have a huge chunk of ranch on a place called the Henry’s Lake Flat, where animals migrate out of Yellowstone in the winter into the Henry’s across the Henry’s Fork watershed to get to lower elevation where it’s not so cold. So get grizzlies and wolverines and pronghorns and all kinds of animals migrate through the Henry’s Fork watershed. And so it’s important to keep that corridor, that migration corridor, open as opposed to subdivided or developed. 00:45:41 Dave: Yeah, right. Because that area is if you look at Idaho, obviously it’s not as populated as California, right. You’ve got but I mean, the the big hub is I mean, it’s uh, what is the biggest city nearest to you guys? 00:45:54 Nelson: Well, Boise is the biggest city in Idaho. It’s on the west side, and the biggest city near us is Idaho Falls, which is about sixty five miles south of the Henrys Fork. 00:46:04 Dave: Yeah, and Idaho Falls isn’t huge, right? It’s a no. Population wise. 00:46:08 Nelson: It. No. Yeah, but, um, AG is the big activity. Agriculture? Yeah. 00:46:13 Dave: Yeah, yeah. AG well, Idaho potatoes, right? Or you know. 00:46:17 Nelson: Yes. And grain potatoes and grain. And they’re big consumers of water which is the big issue in. Yeah, all of the West and especially in places like the Henrys Fork. 00:46:28 Dave: Yeah. It’s really cool because it’s, um, you know, you think California, Idaho, they’re quite a ways apart, but it’s all kind of connected. And as I’m talking here in Oregon, we’re almost kind of in between where you’ve got the Columbia River, which is actually tied to in some ways to where you’re at. Right? 00:46:42 Nelson: Everything’s absolutely. 00:46:43 Dave: Down. But you’ve got all these dams, you’ve got, um, power. Right. Is going to California. Power from the hydro is going. But that’s impacting salmon that are migrating up because of the dams and right. And all this and again but but at the end of the day we’re humans and we’ve got to have food. So it’s this like we said it’s this this balancing thing. What’s your staying on that conservation piece. You know, what’s your ethos. Are you staying positive? I know I think I asked this to Yvon, but looking at where we’re at, do you feel like we still have some good stuff we can do to protect everything? 00:47:12 Nelson: Yes, I do, I you know, I wouldn’t call myself a pessimist or an optimist, but I think I’m an activist. And, um, by supporting the Henry’s Fork Foundation, the Nature Conservancy, uh, Western Rivers Conservancy and other organizations were trying to, you know, strike the balance to not overwhelm the environment with development. And, uh, so we’re doing what we can and not just financially, but by, you know, testifying and commenting on various projects and things like that. So. Exactly. That’s a big part of what I do. 00:47:50 Dave: Good, good. Okay. Perfect. Well, let’s talk on some of your flies. We mentioned, like we said, we were talking to Yvonne about the Pheasant Tail stuff. But if you had to for the Henry’s fork, if you had a few patterns, it could be nymphs. You know, whatever wets dries, do you have a few that are your ones that you’re using throughout the year? 00:48:05 Nelson: Yeah. I think, you know, knowing Craig Matthews, a lot of his flies that he developed are perfect for the Henry’s Fork. The Sparkle Dunn is the single most used fly for me as far as Dunn’s are concerned. But I have a lot of flies that I just made up on my own, and they don’t really have names, but I have some flies that I think are extra effective that don’t appear in fly shops or magazines. 00:48:34 Dave: Right. It’s because you’re tying, right? Do you still you’ve tied flies. Do you still tie flies? 00:48:39 Nelson: Yeah, I’ve tied flies since I was in high school, so that’s been like fifty years worth of fly tying. 00:48:44 Dave: Yep. 00:48:45 Nelson: And, um, but I mostly tie dry flies because that’s what I use on the Henry’s fork. But I also tie a lot of nymphs when I go to New Zealand. That’s the primary weapon is is the nymph. Um, but, uh, you know, having learned a little bit about entomology, it’s fun to try and mimic the various stages of the various bugs that you see that the fish are taking. And so it’s kind of a never ending process of inventing new flies. And I keep thinking, okay, now I’ve got the figured out, or now I’ve got the the salmon fly figured out, but you never do get it completely figured out. And you see somebody else who’s got one. Even better. That’s kind of annoying, but it’s. Yeah, as part of the process. Oh, that guy really figured it out. I’ll have to copy his, but that’s part of the fun. I mean, it’s never ending evolution of flies. And they’re getting better and better, and materials are getting more sophisticated and better. And even natural feathers, you know, the the breeding of chickens has developed better. Hackle. 00:49:51 Dave: Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. All the tools are it’s like it’s amazing the fish even have a chance, right. With all the all the new rods and gear and materials. 00:50:01 Nelson: Yeah. The fish always beat us though. 00:50:02 Dave: Yeah, they will, they will. That’s. That’s a good thing. Well, the X caddis is one I know is one of Craig’s. I think his wife came up with that, you know. And that’s a great one. I mean, I always recommend the x the sparkle done. Um, and I guess the x, those two are both those flies kind of sit down in the surface a little bit right there. Kind of a dry fly, but it’s almost a hybrid. Do you fish wet flies or things down in the surface much. 00:50:24 Nelson: I do. A fish, a fish, nymphs just barely below the surface. Usually because I’m trying to target fish that I can see feeding. And that means if they’re down four feet down, I’m not usually trying to blind fish them. I’m trying to get the fish that are taking emergers or nymphs just under the surface. But dry flies are kind of what I like to use. So I’ve developed quite a few of those, and I’ve got some that I think are better than the ex caddis. 00:50:50 Dave: Oh you. 00:50:50 Nelson: Do. 00:50:51 Dave: You do. You got some. That’s right. Nice. 00:50:54 Nelson: I can’t describe them exactly, but I think the caddis is a wonderful fly, and I do I do use it, but when the fish are really tough, I’ve got some flat water flies for, you know, places like the Henry’s Fork and Spring creeks that I think are even better. 00:51:09 Dave: Yeah. 00:51:09 Nelson: Yeah, right. Of course. That’s all part of the game. You know, I’m sure if you ask Craig, he’s got some that are better than mine for sure. 00:51:15 Dave: Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, that’s a great thing. It’s a that’s why we all love the fly fishing. You know. Fly fishing is that. Yeah. You never totally have it figured out, you know? 00:51:23 Nelson: Absolutely. Yeah, that’s the fun of it. You’re always learning and always doing new things. 00:51:27 Dave: Exactly. Cool. Well, any other things? Anything we missed about the lodge or what you have going? You want to make sure people are aware of? Um, you know, before we head out here today. 00:51:37 Nelson: Uh, no, I’m not here to tout the lodge, although I think it’s, you know, we have, I think, service at the lodge. That’s the best I’ve ever seen. I mean, we have. I hire a woman who trains the staff at Four Seasons Hotels around the country, and I have her come to my lodge at the beginning of the season and train our staff in personal service. And so I think it, um, it shows. I’ve been to probably one hundred fishing lodges in my life. And I like to say that I think our service is as good or better than any I’ve ever been to, and that’s kind of my intention. 00:52:16 Dave: Yeah, that’s part of your you know, it’s still it’s a business, right? You own the lodge and traveling to check out some of these other lodges, you can kind of compare and say, hey, we’re doing pretty good here. 00:52:25 Nelson: Yep. And for a short time after my dad passed away, um, I ran some hotels, uh, three hotels. And so I had some background in, no kidding. In running hotels. 00:52:37 Dave: Was that a little. I’m guessing that was challenging, running a. 00:52:41 Nelson: It was because I didn’t. Well, actually, I, I knew from the lodge what I thought service ought to be. And I tried to improve the service in the hotels by copying the lodge service, but they were in Australia and New Zealand. 00:52:55 Dave: Oh, okay. Wow. Was your dad into it? Sounds like he was into, uh. What the devil you know in that field, like hotels. 00:53:02 Nelson: Well, he had all kinds of businesses that he did. Yeah. 00:53:06 Dave: Is that where you got most of your, um, you know, kind of knowledge? I can’t remember your. You were before you had the lodge. What field were you in? 00:53:14 Nelson: I was a lawyer. 00:53:15 Dave: Do you still do some of that, or is that something you’ve done? 00:53:17 Nelson: No. No. I used the training when I’m fighting against the developers. 00:53:22 Dave: Right. I was going to say, yeah, that’s good. A good skill to have. Yeah. 00:53:25 Nelson: Yeah. So I gotcha, you know, I have to write up things or appear at hearings and that sort of thing. So it’s handy to have the legal background. 00:53:34 Dave: Definitely. Cool. Well, this has been great, Nelson, I really appreciate getting some background here. We’re hopefully I mean, we’re definitely going to be out in your neck of the woods. Um, you know, we’ll be checking in with you. And I guess if is it better to do book your place. You know, your logic, you know, a spot at your place and then check in with the guides? Or how do you make sure to track somebody, that you’ll have somebody there if you need a guide? 00:53:58 Nelson: Um, usually we’re in contact with guides, the guide services pretty much daily. And um, so if somebody calls up to make a reservation and we say, do you need a guide? 00:54:08 Dave: Okay. 00:54:08 Nelson: The answer is usually yes. And so then we arrange the guide. And luckily I think I may have mentioned with those four for services. We have guides that can go in all four directions. Everything and, uh, sort of suit whatever the client wants. 00:54:26 Dave: Right. That’s perfect. If we were doing putting together a trip, say, with, you know, a half a dozen listeners of the podcast, and we were heading there. Um, you know, what do you think would be a good time to go there? It sounds like the June July is busy, but it is busy. Yeah. 00:54:41 Nelson: And that’s the most popular time. So it’s, you know, we have people who come year after year, twenty years in a row. They just. So we have a lot of pre-booked, um, times. But because of where we are, any time of the year, you’re going to have some pretty good fishing. Another prime time that I think of is late September and early October. The kids are back in school. The tourists are mostly. 00:55:08 Dave: Back. 00:55:09 Nelson: You know, back home. And, uh, the fish really get going, I think, before winter putting on putting on the food. And so last week I had some of the best fishing of the entire season up in, um, in Idaho and Montana. 00:55:27 Dave: Oh. You did. 00:55:28 Nelson: Yeah. 00:55:28 Dave: Nice. Was this some dry fly stuff? 00:55:31 Nelson: It was all dry flies. Trichos and. 00:55:34 Dave: Oh, trichos. 00:55:35 Nelson: Late September, early October. Nice. Yeah. 00:55:38 Dave: That’s great. Well, this has been awesome. Like we said, we will send everybody out to Henry’s Fork Lodge Comm. And if they have any questions or want to connect with you guys. And yeah, we’ll definitely looking forward to keeping in touch and, uh, hopefully getting back out in your neck of the woods and fishing the Henry’s Fork. But thanks for all your time, Nelson. 00:55:54 Nelson: Well. Thank you. It’s been a pleasure. 00:55:57 Dave: There you go. If you want to connect with Nelson, you can find out Henry’s fork Lodge dot com. Check in with them and look for availability. Uh, this is your chance to get an amazing experience. Get on the water and be a stone’s throw away from the Henry’s Fork. And if you’re planning on heading out there, check in with me. We’d love to hook this up for you through Wet Fly Swing Pro. Um, that’s our best way to connect on the inside in our community. Uh, just want to give you a heads up before we get out of here. We are heading out for Atlantic salmon. The big trip is, uh, is launched right now. So if you’re interested in getting a spot, send me an email. Dave at com. Uh, this is where we’re putting together, uh, this great trip for Atlantic salmon to the area where Lee Wolf, uh, the area Lee Wolf made famous. We’re actually going to the exact lodge where Lee, uh, spent his time, and we’re going to be fishing some of the runs where he fished. All right, that’s all I have for you today. I hope you enjoyed that one. And hope you have a chance to get out and experience that road less traveled.