Littoral Zone #18 | Fishing Strategies & Tactics for Balanced Flies with Jerry McBride

Phil (2s): Welcome to the Littoral Zone podcast. I’m your host, Phil Rowley. The La Toro zone, or Shoal area of the lake is a place where the majority of the action takes place. My podcast is intended to do the same, put you where the action is to help you improve your Stillwater fly fishing On each broadcast. I, along with guests from all over the world, will be providing you with information, tips, and tricks, flies, presentation techniques, along with different lakes or regions to explore. I hope you enjoy today’s podcast. Please feel free to email me with your still water related fly fishing questions and comments. I do my best to answer as many as we can prior to each episode just before the main content. Phil (48s): Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoy today’s show. When I first approached Jerry McBride to discuss the origins of balance flies and how to use them, I thought it just might end up being an extended episode. However, it soon became apparent that to properly discuss all aspects of balanced flies, it would take two episodes. In part one of this two part series, Jerry and I discussed all aspects of tying balanced flies. In today’s episode, we focus on Jerry’s specific presentation strategies for fishing as balance flies along with his line and leader setups. If you miss part one of this series, I recommend listening to it. I’ll include links to that episode in the show notes. Phil (1m 29s): For those who haven’t listened to part one, Jerry McBride is one of the key designers behind the balanced fly concept. Balanced flies have significantly impacted my Stillwater fly selection as well as that of many other Stillwater Fly fishers. You can consider an assortment of balanced flies to be a key component of any Stillwater fly box. Jerry resides in Spokane, Washington and is an active inland Empire fly Fishing Club member. Well, Jerry, it’s great to have you back. We had you on before talking about balanced flies and how you came up with them and how you like to tie ’em. And so now I think it’s really important we talk about how you like to fish ’em, right? Because you’ve got this great fly and I think our listeners are gonna really wanna know, especially how you like to do it because you’re sort of credited being the originator along with your other club members that worked on this. Phil (2m 18s): So why don’t we, are you okay? Well let’s walk through that and walk through everything from Rods lines leaders and any presentation techniques you’d like to use and let’s talk about that. Jerry (2m 29s): Okay. I guess I’ll just say this is how I do Phil (2m 32s): It. Yeah. Okay. That’s a great way to start. Let’s talk about the rod first. What rods do you like to use for Stillwater fishing, particularly with balanced flies? Jerry (2m 39s): I wanna mention one other thing first, which I used to, when I was working for a living, used to go to all these seminars and everything, and I don’t think anybody uses the term anymore, but what they used to call, they talked about kiss, which is keep it simple, stupid. I don’t hear anybody use that anymore, but that, that was probably the biggest thing I got out of the seminar. Other than that, they had an open bar at the end, which I always Phil (3m 5s): Wanted. That was how my father got me through algebra when it turned in about grade eight or nine and all of a sudden Xs and x squares were coming into your, your arithmetic. It was turning into math and algebra. And that’s what my dad said ’cause I was just overwhelmed. And he said, son, kiss, keep it simple, stupid. Do all your work. Here’s how it goes. And that, that sort of got me over the, how life had changed at that moment in my school life and got me through it. So words to live by anyway, off to the Let’s Equipment. Jerry (3m 34s): Anyway, anyway, start out with the Rod. I, I use the Cabela’s check Nipping Rod as a 10 foot five weight. Unfortunately, like a lot of things that I like, they don’t make ’em anymore. But there are all kinds of 10 foot five weight lines out there. Like Echo has a good one that’s reasonably priced. I like a fairly stiff action and that works very well for me as far as the real, all you gotta do is be able to wind the line up on it. I tell people if my backing sees the light of day once a year, it’s a a miracle ’cause the kind of fish I catch, you don’t really need a, a real, any substance other than that’ll wind up the line. Jerry (4m 24s): Yep. And the, the line I use is a real five weight extreme. What the latest version is the real elite Extreme Indicator line. And it’s specifically made for fishing indicators out of a boat. And it works in combination with a 10 foot broad. It works very well. As far as leaders, again, like I’ve talked about, trying to keep things simple, I just use a straight length of fluorocarbon. I use a six pound test, so I go about 12 foot of six pound test fluorocarbon. Now if you’ve got a fly line that doesn’t have a loop on the end of it, I take a, an old tapered liter and cut maybe six inches off the butt end so that you have a loop and then do a nail knot to attach the leader to your fly line. Jerry (5m 19s): And then you can loop, do a loop loop on your tippet onto that. Now the re line has a loop on it, so I just loop on 12 foot of fluorocarbon and you can buy the, the particular, I dunno what you wanna talk about brands or not. Yeah, I, I buy cigar, red label at Sportsman’s Warehouse. It’s about 15 bucks for 200 yards at least. Having some kind of Scottish background. I, I always like to save money and get a good bargain. And if you’re fish at small eds, I’d say anything smaller than say a, well, even like a 14 then I, I tie on a, I shorten up the six pound and put a couple foot section of four pound fluorocarbon on there and the tip it to the fly connection. Jerry (6m 17s): For many, many years I’ve used this non-slip loop knot. And your diagram to show us how to tie it is a really good one. The one thing that somebody told me is a kind of a memory device. You know, you start out with a, a simple overhand knot. Okay. So now you, you do something, you put the, the tip, the tag end through the eye of the hook. So you’ve done something. Yeah. So now you gotta go back through the overhand knot. Okay. So then you do four to six wraps around the, the, the tippet. Jerry (6m 57s): So now you’ve done something. So you gotta go back through the overhand nod. That’s Phil (7m 1s): Exactly how I instructed too. Once you’ve formed the overhand loop, put the tag in through the eye of the fly and sort of pres size the loop and you’ve gone through the loop. You’ve gone through the loop, do something. So wrap around the main line. Okay. You’ve done something back through the hole, pull it tight Jerry (7m 17s): Since then. Reel has come out with a, a twist clip. Yep. And I use this, there’s three sizes. The size one is the smallest is the one I use. And it’s, you just tie it on with, I use an improved clinch knot. And then you can change flies. So you don’t end up having to retie a loop or your liter, your tip gets shorter and shorter and it works very well on balanced flies. I don’t use it on Chrons or, or blood worms, but the balance flies. Normally I tie in a size 10 and it works just fine and the fly can move freely. Jerry (7m 59s): And you know, once in a while I get kinda lazy. I go, well, maybe I should change flies. Oh hell, I don’t wanna change the Yeah, Phil (8m 6s): No, they make ’em easy. I use those twist clips for larger pike flies and Dorado. And the thing for me was just remembering the twist in the name. ’cause sometimes I, I see people struggling trying to push them on, right. And it’s like, just get it in and twist it and on it goes. Jerry (8m 21s): Anyway, that’s something I’ve adopted indicators start out with a corky and just put a, a toothpick in on the fly side of the indicator. And those still work really well. The corky kinda wear out over a time and your, you know, your, your toothpick will push on through or it won’t, it’ll get lock, won’t lock on the tippets. So then I went to these Phil Balsa and I still have a pretty good supply of those, but just like my fly rod, they don’t make ’em anymore. So anyway, I bought some oros, fortunately now they make ’em, they, they’re added the sure tru, which I, I like, I’m colorblind so I, I probably should have chosen something other than fly tying to take up. Jerry (9m 14s): But I, I could see the, the chartreuse ones real well, medium size, you know, I look at that and I go, why in the heck didn’t I think of that? I don’t, I’m, I don’t know how many times I’ve, I’ve tied a fly on and then went like, oh, I forgot to tip, put the indicator through the indicator. Yeah. So I guess start all over. Phil (9m 37s): Yeah, they’re great indicators and, and I think, are they airlock? Are they called or twist locks? I always get the name, I put my own name on ’em. But they’ve come up with a similar style as well that, that used to. Oh, is that right? Yeah. It used to be on one side of the leader. It was like a nut with a threaded washer. And the trouble with that, it was off center of, of the indicators kind of attached to the side of the leader, if you like. And if you weren’t, if you were a little fumble fingers, which I’m known to be, you drop that washer and it’s like, okay, now the indicator I’m kind of in trouble ’cause the indicator won’t work. So having the, the Oro style or, or these newer style airlock ones that just thread on, they’re great. And when I go down to Argentina, I know, you know, I use my quick release indicators a lot when I’m fishing deep. Phil (10m 19s): But I also use these shallow because the releasing part can be a little irritating after a while. Every time you’re fishing six feet down, every time you catch a fish, you gotta set the indicator. These, once you squee, you know, twist them tight, they lock in and in really windy conditions, they’re not nearly as prone to being impacted by the wind. So I love those ORs as well. Jerry (10m 38s): Yeah. Talking about fishing deeper water, like from 15 to 25 feet, typically I’ll go with the releasable indicator. And one of the things that I’ve, one of the things I do with those is I, I force the, the black plastic sleeve. I force it, push it on through so that it sticks out the backside of the foam ball. So then what I do, that way when you cast, you can cast as hard as you want and ’cause nothing more frustrating is you, I’m gonna make one more cast. Jerry (11m 20s): And then the thing releases on you, so now you gotta reset it and start all over. That doesn’t happen. And then what I do is I just play the fish till he tires out a little bit, swing the rod, the line over, reach up, press on the, the end, stick it out, release the indicator and go back to playing the fish. So that’s how I’ve kind of, the, the other part that I see that people get really frustrated by is trying to get the whole works out of the water so they can actually make a cast. And basically what I’m doing is it’s like almost like a spa cast. Jerry (12m 0s): I go from side to side and keep feeding line until the there’s enough line to pull the fly out of the water. Yeah. And then you do a simple behind you virtually the same as a spa cast and forward and throw it out. Phil (12m 15s): Yeah. Big roll cast. That’s, I love using roll casts like you with indicators because it is a bit of, it can be a tangle prone system. And the beauty of that roll cast is a fly doesn’t come outta the water until it, it flops over and no tangles. ’cause it’s in the air where you get into trouble. And for walleyes, I use a big, some larger balanced flies. Not fun to throw. And I think sometimes people worry that, you know, the fly didn’t come out of the water. It didn’t cast. And I call it, I actually call it casting the indicator, just, I like to do similar to you. I do a, when I bring the rod back for the roll cast, I bring it back a little faster than you normally would. And that tends to swing the fly up near the surface. And as soon as that D loop forms, the second it forms, it’s gone. Phil (12m 55s): There’s no rest. Because as soon as it rests that tungston bead on that balanced fly, it’s gonna sink, but sometimes it doesn’t come out. So the indicator just flops out there and the, you know, the fly’s gonna settle underneath of it anyway. So, no, that’s a great, I’m gonna try that, that, you know, bringing it back and forth and, and you know, just to get it up and, and get it out. It’s may, it may not be the prettiest cast in the world. It may not be something you wanna do on a casting pond or something, but it’s a practical cast that makes life easy. So I’m gonna give that a try for you. Jerry (13m 23s): One of the things that you mentioned in your, I’m just trying to think where I saw that was the, your a dynamic roll cast, Phil (13m 36s): That’s what I call it. Jerry (13m 37s): What is a dynamic roll cast? Phil (13m 39s): So the di it is just what I described. The, so usually a roll cast is a, you know, if you think about is particularly with a, let’s say a dry fly. You bring the fly the rod back up, you can have a look, you can make sure your rod positioned, you can make sure that dlo is formed. I always joke, you can almost have a cup of coffee. Everything’s right. And then you make that push to a stop and everything lays over. Well, if you try and do that kind of a cast with a balance fly, as soon as you stop and check your rod position in the D loop and all that, that flies woo going right back down the bottom again. And you go to cast, it just anchored down there. It doesn’t cast very well. So the dynamic part is when you bring the rod back to that one o’clock position, I bring it back fast enough. Phil (14m 21s): That’s why I call it dynamic. So that indicator actually creates a wake on the surface and that’s gonna make that fly. The leader it’ll wants to pull up and follow and it’ll get near the surface. And the second that dlo forms, it’s gone again. It doesn’t get a chance to rest and sink. So that’s what I mean by the dynamic roll cast. And, and it’s similar to what you’re trying to do. You’re trying to get all of that line out and get enough math, you know, in your case I think you’re getting enough line mass out. So when you go to make that forward cast, you’ve got enough mass to pull all the rest of that indicator and fly out and go with it. So similar process to the same problem. Jerry (14m 59s): I watched your Pyramid Lake, recent Pyramid Phil (15m 3s): Lake. Oh, the new Fly Fisher. Yeah, that Jerry (15m 4s): Was, and you guys were using two handed rods and Yep. My God looked like you could throw just about anything out there. Phil (15m 13s): Well, it’s funny ’cause for years I was like, why would you wanna, I always thought like with a two-handed rod, you’d make a lot of commotion on the surface and, and potentially spook fish. But from shore they make perfect sense because down at Pyramid a lot of times you’re standing, you’ve got back cast issues. So traditional overhead casting doesn’t work and the trout sometimes are out a little further than you can comfortably you can reach it with a single hand rod, but it’s, you know, those two handed rods just, it made total sense down there. And in my most recent trip to Argentina, I took one down with me. And when the wind is up, which it can be, you’re sometimes fishing 30, 40, 50 mile an hour wind someday, you know, we’re talking 11 and a half foot switch rod and there’s a new line Rio’s got out that I really love called a lake chucker. Phil (16m 1s): And it’s a variation on the switch chucker line. It was developed on pyramid and that thing is just designed to fly. So one roll cast and that’s gone. You know, I’m watching other guys with their single hands trying to overhead cast or multiple roll casts and working a lot harder. And that single roll cast, and you’ve got that extra leverage with that long rod. So when that indicator goes down a distance, you can set on it and not miss the fish. So I, I’ve become converted and I’m a big believer in indicator fishing with switch rods from shore. It really works well. Jerry (16m 34s): Really works well. Yeah, I was quite impressed. Yeah. As far as getting to, to flies. Yeah. Phil (16m 40s): Let’s talk about that. Jerry (16m 41s): And this, this is a area I just fish with one fly. I don’t fish with two. Phil (16m 47s): Oh no, I, you know why Jerry, I fish with two is ’cause growing up in British Columbia where you can only fish one fly where I am in Alberta now, and of course where you are in Washington state, you can fish two flies. I always joke once you open Pandora’s box and, and see all the, there’s some very good tactical advantages. You know, the last thing I want is to catch two fish with two flies. It’s, it’s fun while it last, but usually everything’s your leader’s destroyed. You’re down. Two flies, your your knees are shaking, it’s just a mess. But they do have advantages at time, but single fly with it. Jerry (17m 19s): Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the things that, one of our very successful members of the club fly fishermen, he, his theory, he fishes a blob and then he fishes like something that looks more like a, a real bug, like a nymph or something under it. And his theory is it catches their eye. So they go, come over like, what’s that? And then they go, oh, there’s something to eat. They don’t take the blob, they take the dimp. 2 (17m 48s): Trout routes is the most comprehensive mapping app for trout anglers. 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They can see it from a distance. Like let’s say you’re fishing carron, it’s, and then that, you know, more natural looking, slender small fly is not as easy to see. But that big, you know, chartres flashlight hanging above the fly calls ’em in and they have a look and go, oh, maybe sometimes they eat it and then other times they just tip down and eat the other fly. The other thing I like too is you’ve got two flies working different depths. So you’re eliminating you a lot of times with indicators is once you find the right depth, it’s usually pretty good for a while until they, as long as they wanna play, you’ve got two flies eliminating non-productive depths faster than one. Phil (19m 33s): Right. But two, each is home. But you’re right, two, two balanced flies on a rig. That is not a fun thing to throw. Jerry (19m 39s): No. Well anyway, anyway, that’s what I do. And I, you know, I, I fish with a lot of people that put two flies on and, and they spend a lot of time untangling the whole mess or cut it all off and start over. As far as flies, I just mentioned a few new flies. What they aren’t really new but blobs. We’ve got one, one guy that got us all going on blobs and, and now it’s grown like spread like wildfire and everybody’s fishing blobs now. Jerry (20m 21s): And we mentioned earlier, I, I went to the balance fly and that seems to have eliminated the balance blob eliminated the swallowing problem. Yeah. Another one that I’ve, that I really like is the mop fly in orange tie, a balanced mop fly. And particularly it seems like actually the, the blob and the moly, the colder the water it gets, the better it gets. So it works better like in the fall towards winter and then early spring when water’s cold. And I don’t have any idea why. Jerry (21m 1s): Well Phil (21m 2s): We think, you know, talking to Brian and stuff like that, one of the reasons we like to use blobs is because the color approximates a cluster of zooplankton. Whether it does or it doesn’t, but Jerry (21m 12s): You gotta be kidding. Well Phil (21m 14s): That’s one of the beliefs. ’cause I’ve had issues, I’ve had times where you have throat pump to fish, you know, careful use of a throat pump and they’ve got a, a pinkish colored zooplankton them and you put a pinkish colored blob on and they seem to like it. Oh, okay. But sometimes they’re just curious. It looks different. Jerry (21m 29s): That’s, that was my theory is they don’t have hands, so Nope. Phil (21m 33s): They’re like, they’re like a 2-year-old, everything’s Jerry (21m 36s): In their mouth. Yeah, exactly. They put it in their mouth. And then another one that’s working really well is the balanced leather leach. Charlie Craven has kind of popularized that. One of his people came up with it. In fact, one of my sons now lives in the Denver area and we, we went to Charlie’s shop and I met him and the guy that developed that leather leach and, and it’s actually not leather, it’s fake leather, but, but anyway, that’s been a really, a really good pattern. Phil (22m 11s): I’ve got a similar one I use like micro mink or micro squirrel. So tail, so it’s quite thin. It’s like your regular ZO cut I think is a one eighth of an inch. This is half of that. So what’s that? 16th and very thin. And it’s got that leather in there, it’s durable and it moves really well. So very similar. Yeah. Charlie, Charlie’s fly box if you’re in that Denver area is, is a must see ’cause. And Charlie’s one heck of a tire too. He makes Yes, he is. Jerry (22m 40s): He makes Phil (22m 41s): It complex. Look very, very easy. His, his YouTube channel. And Jerry, you provided pictures of these flies to me so I’ll make a point of putting those pictures in the show notes portion of this podcast so our listeners can go and have a look at those themselves. So let’s move on. You’ve got some other favorite flies as well. Jerry (22m 59s): Okay. I got favorite fly, two favorite fly. A lot of people ask me and I’m sure they ask you that is what are your favorite flies? And my two favorite balanced flies is the olive file bugger. Which you show how to tie on YouTube. Yep. They picked that up when you were in Manitoba. I wasn’t there but Jim Arn and Scott Fink showed you guys how to Yeah, Phil (23m 25s): Jim Ather and Scott Fink, one of the two about, those are avid birders, right? They would, in the quiet spots between Phish, they would always take pictures and they come back and at the end of those trips, as you know, we used to have this kind of pitcher night, we’d just see what everybody else saw ’cause we all don’t fish together that close to, I didn’t know there was that many birds in Manitoba. They had all kinds of things that I just, yeah. You know, you’re so focused on your fishing, you miss all the good stuff. But yeah, they use that philo bugger with, with great effect. Even in the na you know what surprised me about that fly was the color, you know, using just natural what we’re using here for those aren’t familiar with it. And I’ll put a link to the, the philo bugger on my YouTube channel. But just using the, the small secondary feather that many game birds particularly pheasant have. Phil (24m 10s): It’s very delicate and we put it in a dubbing loop and and spin it up and it’s just comes alive. But using the natural gray, the just a regular pheasant comes in surprised me how well that natural gray color works as opposed to, you know, ’cause it just doesn’t look like a, a leach you’ve ever seen. But when it gets wet it darkens and it just, again, it’s that it looks good to eat so they eat it. It’s a great fly. Jerry (24m 34s): Yeah, it’s, I was gonna mention that I got the idea of putting those phylo plumes or after shafts, whatever you wanna call ’em, in a loop from your, you had a, a damsel pattern that utilizes after shafts and it got that out of your fly patterns for still waters. Phil (24m 56s): I also did a leach with it too. And the beauty of it is you can alternate colors. So just briefly for those listening, how you, how we do this is you pull down a length of thread and then I put dubbing wax on it just to make it tacky. And I like to pinch the tip of the after shaft or file plume feather away and trim off the little butt of the stem where it’s stuck to the main feather. So it doesn’t, they tend to spin outta the loop and lay them on there, you know, sort of head tail down that thread and then close the loop up around them and carefully spin them tight and then wind them forward. But You can alternate colors. And I think that idea came from me when, years ago when Kaufman Stream born was around, remember the shops they had in in Seattle and Bellevue and, and Tard, Oregon. Phil (25m 41s): Right. I think and there was a, I can’t remember the guy’s name Gene, sorry, he’s since passed many years ago. But he started using, he had a phylo plume leads to use and I just love that thing ’cause it was just, when it gets wet it’s just alive. Right. It’s, it’s like those fibers actually have a life of their own. And I remember that olive one you used, we were on Corbett Lake one time. You were up there with another group and I was up with a school I was doing and you were doing really well with that Olive Phil bugger with the orange bead fishing off the dropoffs. And you know Jerry, that day they had green zooplankton in them almost exclusively. Jerry (26m 20s): Oh really? You think that’s what it was? Phil (26m 22s): You know, I, you were doing really well and my, my students weren’t doing as well, so I went rummaging through my five box. I didn’t have an olive file plugger, but I had an olive balance leach and we put those on and started doing a lot better than we were. So maybe that day they were just focused on that green color. This is stuff we can talk about for hours after, but that is just a great fly. Jerry (26m 44s): Yeah, it would would’ve went back to camp and we had happy hour. I, I kind of told him that I kinda showed Phil Rowley how to catch fish. Phil (26m 53s): You did? That was, that was a, it was sitting there and my two students, I’m like, well do what Jerry’s doing. My Jerry (26m 59s): Little moment of glory. Phil (27m 0s): Yeah, well most of times I sit there between the two students and, and help. I don’t fish very much and help them out. So I’m, I’m helping them problem solve. Yeah, because yeah, that olive file bugger, that’s a staple. Maybe I should feature that one on my YouTube channel for you and and get that up so you can reference that. Jerry (27m 16s): Well yeah, actually I think the Ollie one works better than I’ve caught a lot of fish on the natural one. Yeah. And they’re, they’re a lot easier to come by. ’cause I have wells, Scott’s one of ’em, it hunts and I get as many pheasant skins as I want. But that ol file bugger is a real go-to pattern. We, we had a one fly contest last, well last spring our club did and that’s what I fished with and I, as I tied the thing, I used super glue all the way through it to, ’cause of course if it falls apart or whatever you’re done. Jerry (27m 56s): Yeah. Anyway, I got all the, one of the guys, young guy, new guy to our club, he came by and he said, well how many you got? Well I got three. And he said, well I got six, you know, anyway, in 15 minutes there I, well I hooked three fish landed two and I had the third one on and I go, I’m gonna tie, I’m gonna tie. And then it got off. Yeah. So anyway, I came in second, but that’s the fly I chose to use. Well moving on the, this peacock glimmer, Phil (28m 29s): Well just say one more just, sorry Jerry. One more thing before the peacock. So you’re using the super glue. So you’re, once you’ve formed the loop, are you putting a super glue down on the hook and then winding, carefully winding that phylo plume over that so it bonds to the hook without matting all the fibers down. Okay, that’s a great tip. Jerry (28m 45s): Well, and I, and I also, when I tied the tail fibers in, I put a little super glue there to not, not a whole bunch but a little bit to lock that tail in and so on. So that me, I don’t normally do that, but it, it, it lasted for, you know, we fished, I fished there probably for four hours and actually was looked the same as when I started. So. Phil (29m 9s): Okay. And I noticed you got a little bit of flash in there too. What kind of flash is Jerry (29m 13s): That? Yeah, I’m using gold flashabou. Take a, a length of flashabou, fold it, lay it on the hook and tie it down and then pull it to one side and then pull the loop to the other side, flash it down, then trim it off. Pretty much the same as what you do. Phil (29m 32s): Yeah. And is it holographic or is it just regular? Jerry (29m 36s): I’m not sure about the holographic. It’s kind of, it’s kind of sparkly. It’s not just straight gold flashabou. It’s kind of a got a crinkle to it. Phil (29m 46s): Yeah, it sounds holographic. Yeah, it sounds holo and it’s flashabou. Right. So I always find that moves better with those softer tails. Okay. Alright. Yeah, Jerry (29m 54s): I like the flashabou rather than the crystal flash. Let’s Phil (29m 57s): Get onto this peacock glimmer fly that you like. Jerry (30m 1s): Okay. Peacock glimmer. Again, back to my friend Ron. He and I were kind of competitive and anyway, he spotted this material at a shop here in town and I went to the same place independent of each other anyway, so we both tied Wooy buggers with this stuff. So we’re down at Lake here, winter Lake and our area and we’re both catching fish like crazy. And anyway, we, we were at separate boats so he said, well what are you using? And I threw it over there. He says, that’s what I’m using. Phil (30m 43s): Both found, saw the stuff, fell in love with it and thought you had the inside track. Jerry (30m 48s): So yeah, that’s the fly we caught. We each caught probably 40 or 70 fish in one day there using that fly. So anyway, I like to not have to string all everything up and so on. So I bought, I’ve got rod cases, I have like three of ’em in that hold the, the rod and the reel and everything. So I leave it all strung up, just slide the indicator down to the fly, reel it up to the tip of the rod, take the rod in half, it ha Yeah. Happens to be a four piece rod, but I take, break it in half, fold it over, shove it in the case, zip it up and I’m ready to go. And of course when I get on the other end of it, when I get there, it, it doesn’t take much to set it up. Phil (31m 33s): No, you just gotta, I do the same thing. I, it’s funny because I think if you’re not, I call it rigged and ready to go. If you gotta retr rods, you tend to not wanna do it. Right. It’s like too much effort and you end up not doing something you probably should have done to catch fish. Whereas with your method, you just put one away and pull out the other one and off you go again. So that’s a great Jerry (31m 54s): Tip. Yeah. Probably one of the things that’s made the huge difference is fish finder. Yeah. We started out with the, the buddy series that were made in Meridian, Idaho and I think they sold out to Hummingbird. Phil (32m 8s): Yeah. It was bottom line and then Hummingbird bought them. Jerry (32m 12s): No, and they came out with a a the, I mean if the only ones you can buy now are, you know, like on eBay or you know, that are used, but either the Buddy two or then hummingbird series. There’s a, a one 20 which is black and white, or I have a one 40 C which is color Color, I have same, which isn’t making a difference, it just uses more electricity. But that’s what I have. But they look, they look down and they look out, at least in my opinion, the looking out is the most important for a fly fisherman. Yep. I happen to set mine at 30 foot range. Jerry (32m 53s): If if it, it detects fish beyond that, it’ll indicate it, it just doesn’t tell you how far away it is. But what I find is if you’re seeing a few fish on there, there’s probably a lot of fish. Now of course when I’m dangling then the bottom finder is the, the one that comes into play Oma Lake, which is on the Colville Indian reservation. We fish it a lot. It has Hans nothing. They’re, they’re originally from Pyramid Lake, but they’re nowhere near the size of the ones you’re getting down at Pyramid Lake. But there are some good size ones. The state record has come out of, there was 18 pounds, it’s a decent fish. Jerry (33m 40s): It’s the, I don’t remember there’s what the pilot point and Phil (33m 44s): The Pilot peak. Yep. Jerry (33m 45s): Or Pilot Peak. Phil (33m 46s): They reintroduced those. Yeah, Jerry (33m 48s): One of ’em is kind second choice there. ’cause they, the, the, the original fish they thought was extinct but they found it Now is that the Phil (33m 59s): Yeah, they had, you know, years ago when, when the, I think it was gold rush or silver Mine out there and they used to use the cutthroat from Pyramid Lake as a food source for the miners. So they, they essentially fished the lake outta the, the original pilot peak strain that grew so big. So they replanted the lake with Summit Lake Fish and that’s the summit strain. Okay. And they, and, and that, you know, they produced fish that were, you know, large, you know, they would grow just over 10 pounds was a, a good fish. And then, and maybe some bigger ones. So for all your Pyramid Lake guys out there, you know, I fished Pyramid Lake a number of times, probably know as much as many of the dedicated Pyramid Lake anglers. So don’t get mad at me. But the story I heard was in a small river system or creek system on the Nevada in eastern Nevada near Utah. Phil (34m 47s): They found cutthroat strain in there that were just abnormally aggressive and got way too big for their, for their surroundings. And they did some DN you know, and they did DNA study on them and found them to be pilot peak strain. So they were able to, from there, reproduce those fish and reintroduce them into pyramid. And those are the ones that are, you know, well over twenties into the thirties now pounds. These, somebody told me they were putting growth rates on ’cause that lake’s got a lot of toy chub in it, which is a big nutritious food source for those cuts. They’re putting on five pound up to five pounds a year on when we get going. Wow. So yeah, they, but we go there and fish, like you mentioned, I think in our first episode when we talked just about the development of the balanced fly was just how great a balanced fly is on pyramid for those cutthroat along with ides fishing from shore with single hand or switch rods. Phil (35m 37s): So, so yeah. So yeah, unfortunately that fish finder’s no longer available though, is it? No, I’ve, I’ve stepped up, I now have a, a helix system and I think even those now are obsolete. I think they’ve come out with a newer brand. There’s always, as you’ve, you and I both found out, as soon as you find something you like, it gets discontinued, can no longer find it. But it has side scan and down imaging and, and all those kind of things on there, which is a real help. Jerry (36m 0s): Yeah. Well most of the time the the side scan is what works for me is I’ll, I’ll go along until I find some fish. And, and in fact the last time I went to Homac Lake, I forgot to bring my fish finder and, and I thought it’s Phil (36m 19s): Tough, isn’t it? To myself, Jerry (36m 21s): I thought to myself, how in the heck did I ever catch any fish? Phil (36m 26s): I know I have the same thing. It’s horrible. And remember, I, I remember when you first started using fish finders, everybody, they were cheating. You shouldn’t use these, you have to kind of hide them. And nowadays if you don’t have a sounder, you’re kind of, you know, you’re setting yourself at a, at a real disadvantage. So it’s funny how the, how things have changed Jerry (36m 46s): Anyway, it, I really think it makes a huge difference kind of going on, I guess talk about little technique. The, I I’ve got a, an old 16 foot boat that I inherited from my dad. We call it the Queen Mary. It was made in 1953. In fact, I brought that boat back to Manitoba there when, when Scott and I came back and it, it’s actually, it’s pretty versatile. It’s real narrow old style boat that’s, I put a 15 horse motor on it to fish, you know, where you can use a motor. Jerry (37m 27s): Yeah. And then some of our local lakes, I put electric motor on ’cause you can’t use a gas motor. And then there’s one lake north of Spokane here that you can’t use any motor at all. But it’s a fairly small, small lake and I just row in it rows. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, as far as anchoring, I, I use two, two anchors and anchor, you know, sideways to the wind and, and it works out pretty well. ’cause I’m left-handed, so I fish on one end and most of the people I fish with are right-handed. So that works fairly well. Once in a while we get into a situation where the wind’s blowing too hard and you gotta anchor in line. Jerry (38m 9s): But anyway, that works for me. I do have a, a car top boat that I, if I take a trap, my travel trailer, I put the car top up on top of my canopy and, and fish out of it. That’s what I was using up there at Corbett. As far as water depth, anywhere from two to 15 feet. I usually look for like 10 foot deep water. But I’ve had some just mind-boggling fish in two feet of water. One of the things you mentioned is sometimes where the wind will be pushing and you get to the end of the lake where the wind is pushing up against shore and it stirs up a bunch of bugs and stuff. Jerry (38m 53s): And I mean, I’ve had where, I mean you cast out and the indicators are instantly gone. Yeah. I mean, and just one after another after another. And it’s just, you know, I I get a kick out of people that seem to think, you know, fishing with bait is most effective way to catch fish. But I’ll guarantee you if they’re on a particular fly, you’re way ahead of the Phil (39m 17s): Game. Yeah. I think in, in Stillwater fly fishing and, and just for trout, I think fly is is a much better, much more effective. There are times bait works, no doubt about it, but it’s also very tough on catch and release. It’s funny ’cause you mentioned about left and right-handed tires. I am a lefty, but I cast right-handed. Right. Brian is a lefty, but he cast left-handed. So the two of us are like you and Scott and others. We’re, we’re nowhere near each other. We’re never gonna hit the middle of the boat as nice and safe. Jerry (39m 46s): Yeah. I, when I was a kid, some kid showed me how to bat, well I’m left-handed, but, but they were right. So they handed me the bat and said hold it like this. Yeah. So I bat right-handed and I golf right-handed. Phil (39m 58s): Yeah. Yeah. I’m the same way. I’m kind of this hybrid that does things randomly and I I just joke that’s being left-handed. Growing up in a right-handed world, you, you end up doing some things right-handed, sometimes you end up ambidextrous. I, I golf tried left and right-handed and nothing worked so Jerry (40m 14s): Well that was, that was my case too. I, I kinda decided fishing was better than golfing. Yeah. ’cause golfing was too frustrating. Cheaper Phil (40m 23s): Too. Maybe. Jerry (40m 24s): Yeah. 2 (40m 26s): Fist Fly Guide Service is passionate about sharing Jackson Hole’s world class fishing from its iconic rivers to hidden backcountry waters, the legendary mutant stone and other fantastic hatches bring explosive top water eats. During peak season backcountry creeks hold hidden gems where every band offers something new and wild. Trout rise in untouched waters. Jackson Hole sits in the golden circle for trout home to the headwaters of three major river systems. The snake, the green, and the Yellowstone. Here you can chase native cutthroat trout, big browns, wild rainbows, and even K on the fly. If this is your kind of fishing fish, the Fly Guide service is ready to take you there. 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Phil (41m 60s): So, okay, so you like to fish water depths from two to 15 feet, but you’re, you say you’re most often looking for that, that 10 foot of water, it’s been sort of your sweet spot. Jerry (42m 8s): Yeah, as far as the depth that I usually go a foot off the bottom, if there’s weeds or something, then you’re gonna have to go above the weeds. And I’ve got a sinker, a soldered to a alligator clip. There was a, a guy in our club, a long time guy, he was very generous person. He used to get a whole bunch of those and give them to everybody. His name was Lowell Twight. Anyway, we used to call it the Lowell Twight Solid Estate Depth binder. But anyway, clip that onto the fly and let it down and, and adjust it so that you know the indicators. Jerry (42m 48s): Maybe a foot under the water, take the clip off again back, get back to Oma Lake. I was doing that and a fish grabbed onto the thing. Yeah. To the alligator clip that and he wouldn’t let go. It was like a tug of war and I was concerned I was gonna pull too hard and pull it off of the fly. He and I had about a 10, 15 second tug of war there where he wouldn’t let go of the Phil (43m 15s): Yeah, we’ve had, well you mentioned droppers. So again, for listeners out there aren’t familiar, what Jerry’s talking about is we’re clipping a weight onto the fly while the indicator set. That’s gonna obviously pull the indicator under the water and we just gauge the distance between the water surface and our indicator. So it’s a, if it’s about a, if we wanna be a foot off the bottom, the distance between the water surface and the indicator underneath is a foot. We know when we take the weight off, that indicator’s gonna float the fly a foot off the bottom. But You mentioned droppers, you know, another thing you can use are hemostats and I had one of our guests out there doing, we were doing the same depth setting out there and he had a dropper on, so he’s clipped his fly to the bottom fly and setting it all up. Well that droppers just sitting around there. Well a fish came along and ate the dropper and now all of a sudden, same as what you’ve go and this fish is going crazy going everywhere. Phil (44m 1s): And all we heard was those are $25 hemostats, those are 25. You know, he was able to land the fish and get his hemostats back. But boy we were Oh good Jerry (44m 10s): For Phil (44m 10s): Him. That was, that was pretty funny though. ’cause all, all he said was not so much he’d caught the fish that he was more worried he was gonna lose his $25 hemostats. So that little weight that soldered onto the alligator clip is a lot cheaper option. Jerry (44m 23s): Exactly, yeah. As far as casting, I don’t, I don’t false cast, no. Basically pick the line up and then go forward. If I want more distance, I strip out some more line and I just keep doing that till I get out where I want to be. The other thing is, is I open up the loop. I I see some of these people, they’re excellent casters and they’re, they’re, they’re casting real tight loop with a indicator and all this stuff flopping around and they spend a whole lot of time untangling the mess. Yeah, I kind of, you kinda look at the mechanics of a casting, like a dryly whatever the tip of the rod should travel in a straight line. Jerry (45m 10s): But what you want is actually put a little bit of arc into it Phil (45m 15s): And Yeah. To, to open that up because you’ve got your indicator, your flies and that level leader, which, and some people may go, well why don’t you use a tapered leader? The level leader is so that fly will right sink straight down below the indicator and it sinks to the depth you’ve set it at so it sinks level all the way along. So, no, that’s a good, a good key point. Do you ever use swivels in Jerry (45m 38s): Your setup? No, no. I don’t use a swivel. I at least, I think one of the reasons using a swivel is when, when you using the releasable indicator, because I’ve had where, where I the indicator released and then the fish broke off. Yep. And Phil (45m 53s): It’s gone. You look out Jerry (45m 54s): There, your little, your little foam indicator’s floating, but the sleeve is long gone. Yeah. Phil (45m 60s): The plastic peg is sinks like a rock and your indicator’s drifting downwind, you’ll never get it. So, Jerry (46m 5s): But I, my friend Lee Hughes, a swivel, but I don’t, again, like I say, I don’t mess with any of that. It’s just straight tip it one fly and I can, I, I guarantee you that Lee spends way more time untangling is mess than I do. Phil (46m 24s): Yeah, no, that’s important. ’cause I think if people try to cast indicators, as you said, like a dry fly with that nice tight loop that penetrates wind and, and gets to target, that’s not necess. I always joke with Stillwater fishing do thing, we’re just happy to hit the water. Right. We just get it in water and get fishing. Jerry (46m 40s): Exactly. And if it kinda lands in a pile, well of course that’s another thing that everybody, you know, you try to watch and try to get it so it’s, and maybe even stop the lines so it stretches out so that you see two distinct splashes. One the indicator in the other, the fly and that they’re about the right distance apart. The other thing I do is what I would call, not really what you’d call a double hall, but a, a hall. I use a just a, a very short, teeny bit of a hall going back and forward, which gives you a little more line speed and, and loads the rod a little bit more as far as where to cast. Jerry (47m 26s): I like fish out to the side and a lot of people get really uptight about, ’cause you end up with a big belly in your line. And for the most part I don’t worry about that. It’s when you strike, there’s enough resistance of the line moving through to straighten out and take that loop out of there or that bin that you can usually hook the fish. And that’s my favorite way to fish, is to throw it out. Especially if there’s a riffle, throw it out to the side and let the, the, the wind work it. But sometimes the best thing is throw it straight down wind and then bring it back real slowly. Jerry (48m 8s): Or I’ve, I’ve encountered this where the best thing was to just let it sit and not move it at all. And and so Jerry, when you’re Phil (48m 20s): Sorry Jerry, when you’re talking about out the side, just so we’re clear, you’re, you’ve anchored your boat bow into the wind, right? And normally Jerry (48m 25s): No, no. I got the boat sideways. Phil (48m 27s): Oh, sorry. Sideways with the wind at your back. But you’re still casting sort of across the, almost like swinging a wet fly on a river and just letting that swing right around. That’s a, a great way to, to cover water. Jerry (48m 37s): Yes. And I, it bellies the, the line belly’s out. But for the mo you know, people get real uptight about that. Once in a while I’ll do a little mend to to, to kind of take some of that out. But, but most of the time I don’t have any problem. Phil (48m 55s): No. And it’s, well, we’re with the balance flies, they’re a little larger. I think sometimes those fish will take ’em a little harder ’cause it’s, yeah. It’s not a omi they’re trying to, you know, suck in like a peanut. This is a big piece of steak hanging down there for ’em to go get. Jerry (49m 9s): Basically what I tell people is, is you just need to, to experiment and try all the different options. The other thing is I’m big on covering all the water. Phil (49m 20s): Big importance. Yep. Jerry (49m 22s): If I’m with somebody, well then I’m kinda, I got a, I’ve got about 180 available to me. Yeah. If I’m by myself, I actually fish all 360 and a lot of times you’ll find a, a particular spot where the fish are, Phil (49m 40s): They’re cruising through there. Yep. Jerry (49m 43s): Particularly it seems like Hans, particularly La Hans sometimes, I don’t know whether they’re all bunched up or what, but I’ve seen where there’s another lake we fish that had La Hans where the fish were in a, about a 10 foot diameter circle and you throw out any other place you didn’t catch a fish, you throw it in there, you get immediately get a fish. Of course this was in the spring and they may have been, you know, trying to spawn or something or kind of getting together. But it works. Phil (50m 14s): You and I both fish Corbit Lake, near Merrit BC and there is a little spot there at the north end. You go, the rest of, you’re gonna have to find it, but there’s a little, with my sounder, it actually drops into a little hole that’s about eight 10 feet deep. And the fish just gravitate and love that. I guess they love that, you know, the rest of the area is pretty uniform in depth, but that’s a little place they can swim around and tracks ’em and they can get down a little deeper. But it’s Sure. A little fish magnet. So yeah, that’s a great tip. Jerry (50m 44s): I think Corbert Lake is very unique in the, I don’t think I’ve ever fished a lake quite like that, in that it runs out like five foot or so and then all of a sudden it drops off to 20, 30 feet. Phil (50m 58s): Yeah, it’s like a cliff face, isn’t it? You can be anchored in four feet and your rod tip is fishing into 30 feet. That’s how quick she goes down. Jerry (51m 6s): One of our guys in our club two or three years ago when we were up there, he’s mostly a stream fisherman. So anyway, I go, I go out and I go by him and he’s fishing out over that 20 some foot water, like six feet under his indicator. And fortunately I kept my mouth shut. ’cause I thought, you know, maybe I better kind of clue him in that he needs to be a foot off the bottom. Yeah. Well about that time he caught a fish and then he caught another fish. Yeah. And it’s the only place I’ve ever fished where you’re fishing out over 20, 30 feet of water. Six feet under the indicator. Yeah. Phil (51m 45s): I’ve gone out there, I know we’re talking about bounce flies under indicator, but last fall I was doing a school and Corbet was being moody. She wasn’t playing very well. It, it wasn’t, and we tr you know, we were hanging blobs and balanced leeches. And I remember I had a student there once that fished the entire week with an atoms, parachute atoms on the shoal over deep water. He cast it out, let it sit, give it a little strip, let it sit, create a wake, let it, and he caught tons of fish. So I said to one of the guys in the boat, put on a bionic ant, one of the Lance egan’s patterns and dry flies. Say, just pitch it out there. That thing hadn’t sat for more than 20 seconds. The fish came up and ate it. And we had a great afternoon fishing dries in 20 feet of water, which is like, that shouldn’t happen. Phil (52m 31s): But same thing, those fish were cruising so shallow and they just look up and went, Hmm, okay, I’ll come up and eat that. So that’s a great tip not to just always fish near the bottom. Keep your options open. So your trees, how do you like to move your, you got any special retrieves you like to use when you’re fishing? Balance flies. Jerry (52m 47s): Well, I don’t do the hand twist, I just do a little tiny strips. When I first started fishing, balance flies, I was kinda jerking the, I thought, well, you know, I was kind of popping the, the indicator. But finally that dawned on me that, you know, that doesn’t make any sense. So now I use just little tiny strips. And again, I, I’m back to the kind spoke theory I, I throw out if I’m with somebody 180 degrees and a cast out and work in, cast out work in, so I’m covering that whole area and I think it makes a difference. Jerry (53m 27s): It’s now people are troll, you know, they’re covering water, they cover a lot of water in a day. I’m not doing that, but I, I’m covering now, there’s a whole bunch of people that just throw the thing out there and sit there and sit there and sit there and yeah. Phil (53m 43s): And that’s where people say indicator phishing is boring ’cause they’re just Jerry (53m 46s): Sitting, sitting Phil (53m 47s): There. At least with your method, you’re moving the fly, you’re engaged, you’re watching the indicator. You see those subtle takes. You see the more confident takes. I think that’s a great way to do it. Jerry (53m 57s): Oh, one of the things which I can’t seem to get, I think makes a huge difference, but is to put when, when you’re retrieving, put the tip of your rod in the water. I’m trying to think what his name is. He is, he was a pro baseball player. He is. Got a whole bunch of flies named out. He’s down in Oregon. Phil (54m 18s): Danny Rick. Jerry (54m 19s): Danny, Rick, Phil (54m 21s): Yeah. Daddy. Yeah. Jerry (54m 22s): He, he came to our club and he talked about that. And I do that whenever I’m retrieving not dry flies, but when I’m retrieving a wet fly, I put the tip of the rod in the water. And I think that makes a big difference. Yeah, Phil (54m 41s): I agree. When I fish with people who haven’t still water fished much and they’ve got the rod tip four feet off the, you know, they fish used to fish in rivers and having to keep the tip up to, to keep the line off the water ’cause of the impacts of the current, it’s always tip down, tip down, tip down, tip down tip like, I’m like, you know, right to the water please. So when that indicator goes under, as soon as you pinch and lift, you’re applying tension. Jerry (55m 3s): Well I think you got the least amount of slack line and, and actually the water stiffens the rod up a little bit. But Danny Records came to our club a couple of times and he’s, well, he was a pro baseball player. He is quite a character and good fisherman. A good fisherman. But he, a bunch of us fish, you know, with indicators and somebody asked him about fishing with indicators and he said, indicator fishing, that’s fishing with a fly. That’s not fly fishing. Phil (55m 36s): That’s, that’s what Well, I joke about that, about trolling to be honest and trolling works. But I like to move the fly and do some things. Jerry (55m 43s): Anyway, the president of our club at that time, his next contribution to the newsletter was in about five minutes. Denny managed to insult just about every one of us. But he, he is one hell of a fisherman. Phil (56m 2s): Yeah, he’s got some great flies. Jerry (56m 3s): He sells some tremendous flies and, and tremendous material and stuff. He’s made a quite a contribution. Anyway, the strike, I used kind of a strip strike. I, you know, I, I strip and raise the rod at the same time I went down to Belize Fish for bonefish and you know, they tell you if you’re a trout fisherman, you know you’re gonna raise the rod and, and they’re gonna give you holy hell. But I managed to pretty well keep the tip of the rod down. I, so I didn’t, I didn’t get yelled at for that. I, when the fish took off, I was palming the reel and the guide gave me holy hell about that. Phil (56m 46s): It’s funny ’cause when I went golden Dora fishing, you’re fishing big streamers for those things. And the first couple of fish I did the, the sort of dryly trout set and the guide was just strip, it pulls, you keep pulling and it’ll lock up. So it took me a little while. ’cause I was missing fish is if you raise the rod, you just pull the fly right out of the fish’s mouth. He doesn’t have a chance to turn on it. Jerry (57m 8s): And then kind of finally netting, I’ve got a great big net. Really big net. And so I net the fish and I leave him in the water and there’s plenty of net there. So they, they actually can be swimming around in the net. And then we’ve got a releaser that was developed by a longtime member of our club, Mike Runy. He passed away years ago, but he left the rights to manufacture and sell that to our club. And we, we sell those releasers. It’s a, a very simple little releaser. You just slide it down on the fly and pop the fly out. Jerry (57m 51s): We even have a, a, a small video on how to use it. And those are sold through the local fly shops here in Spokane. Phil (58m 1s): Okay. So I’m sure some of our listeners will be interested in that tool. Any of the fly shops in Spokane? Jerry (58m 7s): Yes, I believe so. The, let’s see, north 40. Phil (58m 13s): Okay. Jerry (58m 14s): And Silver Bow have them. Phil (58m 18s): Okay. I’ll put links to that as well. Jerry (58m 20s): And it’s, it’s runge, it’s R-U-N-J-E-R-U-N-J-E. Phil (58m 25s): He, he made that fly in your book that run’s turd, right? Jerry (58m 29s): Oh, he was a character. Yeah, Runge turd. He’s got, I was trying to think of some of the other ones that he, he, another one he, he tied, we called the Christmas tree. It was, you know, green and red and so on. Very ornate fly. Anyway, he, yeah, Rumie was quite a, a character. Phil (58m 51s): Okay, well I’ll I’ll make sure to put those in there. Where can they see the video and how do you use that? Jerry (58m 57s): I believe that’s on, I could let you know. I believe that’s on our website. Phil (59m 1s): Okay, we’ll we’ll find that out. We’ll, we’ll find where it is and have the link to it, so that’s good. Jerry (59m 6s): The Inland Empire Fly Fishing Club website. Phil (59m 11s): Make a note of that. Okay. Jerry (59m 12s): Anyway, I don’t ever take the fish out of the water. I leave them. I’ve got enough fish pictures so I don’t, you know, grip and grin. I just turn ’em loose. Well, I kind of admire ’em. Some of ’em are beautiful fish that I really enjoy. I didn’t, I just kind of turn ’em on their side and admire ’em and then let ’em turn ’em loose. Phil (59m 34s): Yeah, that’s great. So Jerry, that’s great. So we’ve been through a lot here. We talked about your rod preferences, your real preferences, your lines, your leader setup, which I think is critical, that level leader that you’ve got. So the fly sinks vertically straight down to the depth you set it at how you like to connect it. Use of the loop knot, just looking through here, what you sent me, use of those twist clips I think is a big, big thing. People should have a look at those. The size one twist clips such an easy way to attach a fly. If you’re struggling tying knots or don’t want to tie knots. That’s a, that’s a great way the fish don’t care. You know, I think sometimes people worry, oh, the fish will see it. Well they see the big hook sitting there too, that that doesn’t seem to bother them. So that looks good. Phil (1h 0m 15s): The oros indicators of your favorites, right? Jerry (1h 0m 17s): Well, not yet. I’m still using, I got a pretty good stash of the th the Phil (1h 0m 23s): Ths, yeah, Jerry (1h 0m 24s): The bass, the balsa ones. But I did buy some and I have them. So some point, that’s what I’m gonna be using. And Phil (1h 0m 32s): Then we walk through your favorite flies, your balance blob, the balance mop, the leather leach, the philo bugger the olive one. A real killer fly. We will make sure to, and your peacock glimmer. Now that peacock glimmer, that’s like a chail, right? Jerry (1h 0m 47s): Yes. Phil (1h 0m 47s): Yeah. A real spark. Like a crystal chail or what have you. And then we watch Yeah, Jerry (1h 0m 51s): It’s a real simple fly to tie basically a marrow maroo tail with some gold flashabou and, and wind the chail on there. And you’re, you’re, you’re good to go. Phil (1h 1m 4s): Where are you finding that peacock glimmer? We might drive some. Jerry (1h 1m 8s): That’s a problem. That’s a problem. It’s not a Phil (1h 1m 11s): You’re a bit of a curse, Jerry. Everything you touch goes Jerry (1h 1m 14s): Obsolete. I know. I found peacock. Yeah. Just straight peacock. And it seems to work. We’re hoping that we’ve, I I don’t know yet for sure, but we may have located a source. There was a guy here in town that was wholesaling the stuff we originally started with and then it ended up being wholesaled by a guy over in Seattle. So anyway, I bought some from him. He said he had just one, trying to think what they call it, where they wine, the yarn on a, on a spool kind of thing. Yeah, Phil (1h 1m 50s): Those tapered spools. Yeah. Jerry (1h 1m 52s): Yeah. Anyway, he said, that’s all I’ve got left. And, and I just kicked myself that I didn’t just buy the whole thing from him. But anyway, I bought a bunch and, and I shared it with some people and now I’m down to, I have hardly, I I, my, my poor friend Ron died and I called his wife and went out there and managed to find a, a little bit more in his stuff. Phil (1h 2m 21s): So, well his legacy carries on in your flaw. Yeah. That’s great. Jerry (1h 2m 26s): I felt a little guilty kind of. But anyway, she was very gracious about it. Said you help yourself. So I went down and I found r ron still had a, a card of it. So that’s his legacy to me. Phil (1h 2m 41s): That’s great. Well, Jerry, this has been great the, over these two episodes. The first one we talked about sort of how you came about with the balance fly concept. And today we’ve had a great chat about how you like to fish ’em, your rods, your lines, your leader setups, flies. We’ll have links to all of the, or images to many of the flies Jerry talked about so you can see ’em for yourself. I’ll get the recipes from Jerry as well if he, he’ll part with ’em so people can attempt to tie ’em as well and, and add to their fly boxes so they can have the same success that you’re having. Jerry. And, and, and I just wanna thank you so much. You’ve had such an influence on my still water fishing with balls, flies, and I guess the bionic worm. I’ll admit that too. We talked about that in part one, but it’s been great. I, I really thank you for coming out and for sharing some of your, your, your wisdom you’ve learned over the years. Phil (1h 3m 28s): It’s invaluable. It’s, I think you’ll help everybody that listens to the, the two podcasts. Jerry (1h 3m 33s): Well, I, I’ve enjoyed, usually I can’t get anybody to sit and listen to me for two hours or more. So I appreciate that. I appreciate all the credit that you’ve given me in your videos and so on. I appreciate that. And I think that was very nice of you. Phil (1h 3m 57s): Well, I think that’s important. I I I, I it’s pay it forward, right? You know, we, we need to be respectful of, of people who’ve developed things and not try and take necessarily credit for it ourselves. Share that, pay it forward and it’ll come round to you. Yeah. Jerry (1h 4m 9s): Thank you. And I guess we’ll see you in a couple of weeks. Phil (1h 4m 15s): Hope so. Looking forward to it. Once again, I’d like to thank Jerry for taking the time to discuss balanced flies and how he likes to fish them. After listening to both episodes in this two part series, I hope you have a deeper understanding and appreciation of not only how to tie balance flies and how to use them as well. These skills will enable you to incorporate them into your still water repertoire. Be sure to check the show notes for A PDF Jerry provided detailing how he likes to fish. His balance flies. Thanks for joining us today. I look forward to having you join me on a Future Littoral Zone podcast. Until next time, get out on your local lakes or perhaps travel to a new one and put your balance flies into use.