779 | BC Stillwater Fishing with Greg Keenan – Stillwater Edge, Chironomids, Leader Setups

Dave (2s): Steel water fishing is still a big mystery to many of us out there in the fly fishing world. Is it better to use a balanced leach or a carotid? Should I use an indicator or not? Is trolling still a valid method to catch fish in lakes Today we have an expert who is gonna walk us through BC fishing and carotid fishing under an indicator. So you have a few more tools in the toolbox for your next Stillwater trip this year. This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, And what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. Great. Keenan, my good friend and Stillwater Edge podcast host is gonna give us a big update on what he’s got going with his new resources out there. Dave (44s): You’re gonna find out how to systematically fish steel waters, what his hybrid leader looks like, and what you should know about fishing these leaders and how to find the fish and what stripping method you’re gonna be needing to use with these hybrid leaders. Plus, we’re gonna find out, like I said, if trolling a fly is still something you should be thinking about doing this year. Let’s get into it. Here he is, Greg Keenan from the Stillwater Edge. How’s it going, Greg? Greg (1m 13s): Great, Dave, how are you? Dave (1m 14s): Good, man. Good. This is gonna be exciting to jump into more on Stillwater and hear what you have going. Really. You’ve got a, a bunch of new, I guess, channels and things like that out there. The Stillwater Edge is your new focus. I, I love this because I think niching down is really a good way to do it because you’re serving a specific audience, but we’ve been doing a lot of things. You know, the school fishing basically has been a big thing we’ve been working on the last couple years. We still have that going. And now this is Roy, your chance to may maybe talk about that first. Give us a little update on why did you start the Stillwater Edge? Greg (1m 49s): Well, I think one is I saw a need for it. First of all, I saw a need for the education space in Stillwater because a lot of people I find, you know, a lot of anglers either just don’t know. And that was all through the schools that I’ve done with Phil, and then just the school of fishing itself. And I’m, when I saw that gap that needed to be filled, I’m like, Hey, you know, I know a lot of information that I can, you know, help those anglers get into that, you know, fit, you know, educate them and help ’em get into that, that space. So That was kind of the main reason why I did it. I also wanted to, you know, try my handed fishing guiding as well. And, you know, I took, I always took people out on an education side of things where I took ’em out fishing, so I wanted to get into the guiding aspect as well. Greg (2m 33s): And I know the lake’s like the back of my hand up here and Yep. Quite frankly, you know what? Hey, you’ve known me forever and yep. Man, I, I love Stillwater and it’s something that I know I, I might not be the best saltwater angler. I admit that. And I might not be the best river guy, I admit that. But Stillwater, I mean, yep. You know, you’ve always known I could catch a fish in a lake pretty easily, so. Dave (2m 53s): Yeah, that’s right. And you’re in one of those kind of meccas for Stillwater fishing. I feel like Greg (2m 58s): This, this, yeah. This is the area, Dave. Dave (2m 60s): Yeah, this is, and so you’re in, physically, you’re in Kelowna. Do you guys have, like, what do you consider your area of like, you know, I guess it’s southern, the southern interior, what, what is that? There’s lakes everywhere, right? Greg (3m 12s): There is, yeah. Within my house there’s, I don’t know, a hundred lakes within an hour. You know, I’m, I’m three minutes away from a major lake, which is Okanagan Lake. It’s a hard fishery. It’s more of a wintertime fishery for still waters. And it’s a big water. It’s big. It’s a hundred kilometers long or something like that. So it’s not something you’d really want to go out on with a little boat. But yeah, I mean, this is a mecca. I mean, these high mountain lakes, they’re well managed, they’re well stocked. A lot of them are, it’s a put and take fishery up here. So these fish get big. They get big fast, and the, the government comes in or the ministry comes in and restocks them. You know, there’s a few of them, few lakes around here that actually do have the natural rainbows, which is great. Greg (3m 55s): Like, you know, those fish are, and in one of the lodges, skein is, is a great example. That’s all natural as well, all around there. Yeah. But you know, it’s just, it’s the mecca. It’s exactly where you need to be if you want to catch big fish on still water. Dave (4m 8s): Yeah. And do you have, I mean, maybe let’s talk about that. Start there with your, somebody’s coming up there to fish. Where do you, you know, where do you start with that? Like, well, let’s talk about your guiding, you’re gonna be guiding up there. Where is this, where could people first connect with you there, and then where are you gonna be taking people or how’s that look? Greg (4m 26s): Absolutely. So I think the biggest thing is if someone wanted to do a guiding trip is to reach out to me, you know, our prices are competitive with every other grinding company, and then reach out And we would build out the day based on your needs. So if you wanna catch a lot of fish, I got lakes for that. If you want to catch that, you know, elusive trophy fish, I have a few lakes for that as well. Right. Yeah. It’s just gonna depend on what your needs are. If you’re new to still waters And you want to get into, like, a lot of people, most people wanna get into indicator fishing, right? They want to get into chron fishing. Yeah. That is the bread and butter, that is the holy grail. And they want to get 40 fish days. Okay, well, if you’ve never indicated fish, then we need to time that to go to a lake where you’re gonna get for close to 40 fish. Greg (5m 8s): Right? I can, I don’t ever guarantee that, but you know what I’m saying? Yep. So those fish could be anywhere between, you know, 14 to 20 inches long. If you wanna get something above the 24 into the 24, 30 inches, there’s where you might only get one or two hits all day. There’s lakes that we can do that too. Right? Yeah. Those are long days, especially if you’re just beginning. It’s, you know, a lot of hunting. Dave (5m 32s): Let’s take it to, let’s, for my example, I always go back to this, I think I’ve talked about this a little bit in the podcast, but, you know, I remember my dad, and this is one of those things where you remember stuff, right? You always, everything was bigger back in the day, but I remember my dad come going back when I was a little kid going up to BC and bringing home these photos of these giant camloops fish. You know what I mean? But let, let’s take it there. If I want to get, go out with you and get a big fish, what’s our day gonna look like? I don’t know. We don’t have to give away any secrets on where we’re going, but, you know, talk about that a little bit. Is it, it’s gonna be some work to find that big fish, but can we do it with indicators and Chrons? Greg (6m 7s): Absolutely. A hundred percent. Okay. In fact, that’s the biggest way of doing it. Dave (6m 10s): It is. Yeah. Yeah. Why is the, because Keds, you have a different techniques why kran and mid fishing or, and with the indicators, why is that something that, you know, is so popular right now? Greg (6m 21s): I think it’s, it’s a mystery of it. I think people are just drawn to it. It’s the mis, I think there’s two folds to it. One is the mystery, and there’s honestly, like the high is watching that indicator get just pulled right under water. You’re staring at something and all of a sudden it just goes right underwater. And you know that there’s a big fish on the other end. I think that is truly what it is about indicator fishing, right? You know, you’ve worked hard, you put in the energy, you, you found the right depth, you put on the right fly. I mean, all the, all the puzzle pieces have come together and then you watch that indicator go under. That’s the magic. Yeah. I think the other thing with indicator fishing is it’s complex. It’s, it’s a complex leader system. It’s a complex, it’s a completely different cast. Greg (7m 5s): You know, it’s a big wide cast. If you do in tight loops, you just made a, a mess of your indicator leader, you know, so there’s a lot of complexity in, in indicator fishing, timing it so That the wind is pushing your, your indicator out. So your line is tight to the indicator itself. Finding the right depth, finding the right fly. I mean, there’s millions ofid patterns that guys are tie in. You know, the possibilities are endless. So finding that and having a fish take that, I think that’s what it’s all about. Right. Dave (7m 32s): Yeah, definitely. What is that, I wanna get into some of the details on all that leader set up, you know, casting, but talk about, are there any areas up there? I mean, are pretty much all the Stillwater areas known, or is there some secrets, or could you point out a few areas? Like if we were gonna be, we are gonna be potentially driving up there, you know, because we’re heading up to Alaska, so we were, if we were gonna stop in for the night, you know, maybe somewhere where would you, what would you say, are they, are there any se nons secrets up there? Greg (7m 60s): Yeah, there’s a lot, lot of nons secrets. I think the big thing is a lot of the lakes have forest, like BC forest rec sites that you can use. And I would just, if you’re to do the camping method, I would stay there and, and, you know, fish those, I can give you a list of those lakes or Yep. And you can put ’em in the, the notes if you want. Yep. And the, all the lakes that I’ll mention just for the, the record or lakes that I feel that can abstain pressure for sure. Right. So I wouldn’t give away anything that, you know, sent a hundred people to. Yeah. You know, the, the lakes up here in this region, like I said, there’s so many lakes and they’re just so close together within like kilometers to like, you know, spitting distance to each other. So, and that like, we’re truly blessed. Greg (8m 41s): It is, you know, it’s like you guys with your, your rivers down where you are, Dave, like you’re truly best as well. Right. That’s why it’s so good. So if you were to drive up here through, you know, Kelowna And you were to hit the connector highway, the 97 C, that area is just, is ary with lakes, and that’s my fishing grounds, you know, it’s like, it’s an endless possibility. Some of the, some of the top lakes, if you wanted to stay at a lake with resorts around our area, there’s, there’s what is there? There’s Corbett Lake, which is fantastic. There’s Douglas Lake, which is fantastic, both of which we do schools out. There’s Skain, which is, you know, a another smaller lake. It’s a bit outta the way, but it’s, you know, a great off the grid bike. And, and all these are, are able to accommodate people with sleeping quarters and whatnot. Greg (9m 24s): But yeah, start there man. Dave (9m 26s): Okay. And so there’s plenty. So we, we will, and we’ve had a few episodes where we’ve talked about, you know, kind of BC and travel and up that way. So that’s good. Well, let’s get into a little bit on, you know, the system that you talked about. So if we were going up there, we’re going to find one of these lakes, you know, we’ll find a campground to hit on the way up. What does the setup look like? Talk about, I guess the leader is the big thing. Describe that. How you build your leader setup. Greg (9m 50s): Absolutely. Yeah. So mine’s a hybrid leader design between what most guys do and then what Phil does. You know, having taught many schools with him for, for many years, he has a different leader system, but we’ve kind of adapt, I’ve adapted over the years between the two. So mine will start with your coming off your, your, I always use a, you know, floating line. And then I’ll come down with everything I have with fluorocarbon and I’ll use a 12 foot out of the package fluorocarbon leader indicator leader. Again, I’ll use like a Rio indicator leader on that. I’ll have a strike indicator from there. I work it down to a barrel swivel. And then from the barrel swivel down, I’ll add about another two feet of fluorocarbon tip it as well. Greg (10m 36s): I add a split shot about a foot above the fly if I need to extend that liter. So that’ll give me 12 and then two, so that’s 14 feet. If I need to extend it and say fish is 17 to, I don’t fish anything deeper on an indicator past 20. So if I needed to extend that leader, I would tie onto the real leader and use that as a working end. I would always have that two foot section from the barrel swivel to the fly as my fly section, if that makes sense for you guys. It does, yeah. I mean, that’s it, it’s simple. It’s easy. If I break off, it’s easy to tie. The other end is my more of a working end, and that’s where I chop and add leader to it. Greg (11m 18s): So. Dave (11m 19s): Gotcha. So the swivel is key because you can just cut off, put on new tip it, and then from the sw and then you’d have your, if you needed a split shot, the sw Greg (11m 27s): Yeah, yeah. The SW is key for two reasons. One, it actually acts, it, it’s a weight. Oh, Dave (11m 31s): It’s a weight. Yeah. My Greg (11m 32s): Fly in the zone, especially on wavy days. And two, it’s a bit of a pla like a pendulum. So my fly will swing and it won’t swing out of the, out of the zone because that swivel holds everything down is, and is on top of that. I have a split shot as well, particularly when I’m doing longer, like fishing in deeper water. Right. I really wanna make sure my fly’s in the zone that is a hundred percent key in Stillwater. I, you know, is finding that right area in the right zone. Yeah. Dave (11m 58s): The right zone. Where would your indicator be and what is the indicator you you’re using? Greg (12m 2s): So the indicator that we use is a foam indicator, like a quick release foam indicator. And it’s because of the longer, longer depths that we have in still water. So That indicator is a, with a quick release foam indicators, when you release it, it allows that indicator to slide up and down your line. Right. So if we were to use, say, an indicator for a river system, you know, one of those new Yeah. Dave (12m 28s): The thing about, about or so, Greg (12m 29s): Or say an Yeah. Thinking about Bob or an oros or something like that, that that’s actually locked onto the line. Right. That, you know what I mean? Yeah. It doesn’t allow you to slide. So if you have a 20 foot liter, you’re not gonna be able to pull that fish into the boat. Right. Because you’re 20 feet out. Yeah. So that’s why we use those foam quick release indicators, which are, you know, they’re fantastic. They don’t last as long as the other ones, especially in a day you’ll go through a couple pegging and repre pegging and stuff like that, but they’re great for what it’s doing up here. Dave (13m 1s): Yeah. So those are the ones where if you get a fish on it, it releases and it, it slides up and does it slide up? It stays on, it just slides up your leader? Greg (13m 9s): Correct. It’ll slide right down to the fly. Well, it’ll slide right down to the swivel is where it Dave (13m 13s): Goes. Oh, to the swivel. Yeah. I gotcha. Yep. Greg (13m 15s): Okay. Right. That’s exactly how far that indicator should slide down. Dave (13m 19s): Yeah. Perfect. Okay. And then, and then you can adjust this thing, and then do you adjust this indicator based on the depth that you’re at? Greg (13m 25s): Absolutely. Yeah. That is key. So again, if, you know, if we we’re fishing, the bottom of the lake is, let’s say it’s 20 feet down And we wanna start off at, you know, 19 feet, right? So you’re gonna, if you have a, a liter and say the liters 20 feet, you’re gonna peg it down, you know, a foot from the, from the fly line, right from the top of there. Yep. So That you’re a foot above the bottom. That’s about, that’s the prime feeding zone. Yeah. Dave (13m 53s): Gotcha. When you make that cast out there with that setup, I mean, how are you counting, how do you know when you’re down, when it’s actually straight down or deep enough below you? Greg (14m 3s): That’s a good question. So again, with that split shot that I put on there, it allows that fly that tiny little chron. And for those that don’t know what acro, like it’s a midge, right? Yeah. So it allows that to sink a lot faster, and again, gets me in the feeding zone a lot faster. Hence why I put that on there. Right. As opposed to waiting for that natural drift to fall. So you can do a countdown method, or you can just sit there and wait and you’ll kind of see your fluorocarbon, your lead just sort of slowly pull, and then you’ll see the indicator shift, and then when the indicator shifts, you know, you’re straight down. Right. It’s a, it’s funny, it’s a 90 degree, it’s the only way to fish a 90 degree in with a fly line if you were to take that indicator off. Greg (14m 44s): That method is called the naked wine fishing. Yeah. And to fish a naked wine, you would have a natural arc in that line just due to the water and everything like that. So, which is another Stillwater technique, and it’s fantastic. Dave (14m 56s): It is. Right. So we’re, we’re kind of focusing right now on just the indicator, but there’s Yeah, there’s a whole bunch of other ones. You Greg (15m 2s): Know what, there’s so many different, that’s the cool thing about stillwaters. There’s so many different techniques to fish lakes, right. And they’re unexplored, but the Yeah. With the indicators, I mean, that is the big thing. That’s what everyone loves, right? Dave (15m 15s): Stonefly nets build handcrafted landing nets that are as tough as they are beautiful. They’re shaped, sanded, and finished by hand from premium hardwoods. You’ll feel the difference the moment you land your first fish light in the hands, strong at the hoop, and made by someone who knows what it means to earn your trust. You can head over to stonefly nets.com right now and see what they’ve got in the shop today. That’s stonefly nets.com. Fish to Fly Guide service is dedicated to sharing the incredible fly fishing opportunities around Jackson Hole. Whether floating the Scenic Snake River in search of native cutthroat trout, or hiking into the mountains to explore pristine tributaries every day on the water is an adventure. Dave (15m 55s): You can join them for an unforgettable fly fishing experience in the heart of the tetons@fishtofly.com. And I think today we’ll see how many of these we can get to. But I wanna stick on the indicator because this is, this is good. You’re painting the good picture, so you get down to the depth. And then I guess that’s another thing that’s always the question is how do you get down, how do you know when you’re at the fisher at 19 feet, let’s just say in this example, how do you know what depth they’re at? Greg (16m 20s): Well, first of all, your best friend is sonar, right? So when you know is to locate the fish in the lake is, is key. That’s actually the hardest part is finding fish in a lake. ’cause the Lakers, like the fish in the lake, have to go find food. They don’t stay in one area, like in a river. It’s, you know what I mean? Yeah. There’s kind of like a little area that they stay in. The food comes down to them in a lake, they have to go find the food straight out. Yeah. So you need to isolate that lake and break it down into like, how do you find fish in a lake? Right. And, you know, like drop offs And wedges or key weed, ves, underwater structure, those are your three main primary sources. If there’s an inflow of a river or something like that, then that would be another way to find fish in a lake. Greg (17m 3s): Right. Once you’ve isolated, once you’ve located an isolated that then you just, you know that they’re the prime feeding zone. If it’s sonars telling you it’s 20 feet, you know that you start at 19. Hmm. They could be mid column, they could be at 16 in, in nine, in 20 feet of water. But start at 19 and work your way up. Dave (17m 22s): Gotcha. Is this like the sonar or forward facing sonar, the stuff for you? It’s like a super detailed or what, what Greg (17m 28s): No, I, no, no, you just, you know, you honestly, some of the, the, the cheapest, when I say sonar, I mean, you’re not looking for fish, you’re looking for bottom Oh, Dave (17m 36s): Right. Structure. Gotcha. Yeah. Greg (17m 37s): Most guys are looking for bottom, they’re looking for those drop-offs, right? Yeah. Anything that goes from, you know, that horal feeding zone and just slowly drops down. That’s the key areas. That’s what you’re looking for. That’s Dave (17m 50s): The key cutoff. So if you’re in a, yeah, so you’re looking at the bottom of the structure. So if you see the bottom’s like super flat and say it’s 30 feet deep, and then all of a sudden you see it go up to a ridge and there’s some, you know, Greg (18m 0s): Yeah. That Dave (18m 0s): Would be, that might be it. Greg (18m 2s): That’s prime Dave. Dave (18m 3s): And then you wanna get your fly within a, typically, like within a foot of that bottom. Is that where you’re starting? And then working your way up, Greg (18m 9s): Start there and work your way up? Absolutely. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Because that’s because the, the food source comes from the bottom of the lake and swims up to hatch. Yeah. Right. Those chrons Right. Come up. Or if you’re fishing leches or, or blood Dave (18m 23s): Worms, the same thing. They’re all coming from the bottom Greg (18m 25s): And all, it’s all coming from the bottom and working its way up the water column to either hatch or go find, you know, other food sources or to scoot away. I mean, if it’s mid call, maybe it’s, you know, something that wants to swim away. Yeah. Dave (18m 37s): Right. Nice. Okay. So That helps us get there to the fish. And is this going to be something where you need a boat or are there any situations on some of these lakes where you might be able to even fish off the shore? I can imagine, you know, some people, and we’re probably gonna be up there without a boat, you know what I mean? Yeah. I might be a place for a, well, we’ll just pull off the can, can you find fish right off the shore? Greg (18m 55s): You can, it’s a bit difficult here in British Columbia because all our, our, the bottoms of our lakes are all like, it’s muddy. Like you’ll be up to your, see. Yeah. So you literally, when I say close to shore, you literally have to stay right on shore, right? Yeah. Maybe, maybe a foot or two into the, into the water. But once you get past that, it’s just, you’ll sink up to your Oh, okay. Neck and mud, which is good. Which is why our lakes are so rich with like, food, right. Because that’s what grows in that mud. But yeah, absolutely. You can fish from shore, you can indicate fish from shore, because that again, is the primary area, anything close to shore. So again, if you’re on shore And you have the, the room to back cast and everything’s good, you, you’re fishing in that primary, that littoral zone, right. Greg (19m 37s): Is, you know, from shore out. Yeah. It’s just, it’s where the food is, the food sources in still water is, I mean, the biggest myth is everyone thinks the biggest fish live in the middle of the lake. No. That’s just so wrong, right? Yeah. So yeah, absolutely. You can fish from shore and you know, like, think about it, like how many times do you see kids out there, they don’t have boats, they’re fishing from shore and they’re catching fish. It’s great. Like, yeah. Dave (20m 1s): Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And you should, yeah. So that’s a good thing to know. So we can, you know, make our cast out and you know, again, find the littoral zone, which we’ve talked quite a bit about, you know, especially with Phils, the stuff he’s been doing and everything. So it’s good. Well, so we have that, so we know kind of where we’re finding fish. Talk about the flies. How do you know what pattern? There’s so many CIDs, whether that’s like bead colors, like what, where simplify this for us so we can say, Hey, we wanna throw on a a cid. Do you have a few top patterns you love? Greg (20m 27s): Yeah, absolutely. I think, and you know what, and that’s like a black rabbit hole. It’s kinda like, yeah. You know, you’re scrolling and, you know, there’s so many colors and there’s so many great tires out there that tie these k chronos that men, I wouldn’t even want to fish. Some of them have like gill filaments and like, you’re just like, wow. The amount of detail to these K chronos is crazy. I actually did a whole podcast on that myself. Oh Dave (20m 48s): Really? Greg (20m 49s): Yeah. You know, does it need to be that detailed? Right. Dave (20m 52s): Talk about that a little bit, Greg, before you get into it. Where Yeah. This podcast is this, is this on the, on YouTube or where could we find this podcast? Greg (20m 59s): Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s on my, on the Stillwater Edge YouTube. It’s on pod, what is it? Pod beams in my house, so, Dave (21m 5s): Oh, yeah, yeah. And you got it out there on Apple Podcasts and all that. Greg (21m 8s): Yeah, it’s all the Stillwater Edge. Right. So it’s one of my episodes that I talked about, because again, you know, doesn’t need to be that detailed. ’cause there’s, like you said, there’s so many chron patterns and some of these things are works of art and Yeah. You know, people are like, does, you know, if it’s not seven segments within a chron and it’s not realistic, you know, there’s a lot going on. But you know what, if you stick with like few core patterns, you know, I’ll, I’ll like five patterns, like a aroy, a green, anything with a, a black, red and white, like that’s like the typical ice cream cone, like that, it is just so black body, red wrap, white bead head. Like that’s just your classic pattern, you know, same thing. Greg (21m 50s): But with silver wrap, those again are, you know, your classic chron patterns that you can’t go wrong with a gray with a black head that’ll have you covered if you came up here with those five patterns, you should be covered. Dave (22m 4s): Okay. And what about size? What’s your typical size if you said just in general? Greg (22m 8s): Yeah, I would, again, if you go fourteens, fourteens would be good. I like to stand out, right. So yeah, Dave (22m 15s): 14. So fourteens, is that a little bit on the larger side or smaller size for Chrons? Greg (22m 20s): It’s a bit on the, the larger side, you know, but we get some big kronites up here, right? These lakes get some big K CIDs and when you’re down, and that’s, again, when I talk about that on the show, when you’re, when you’re down, say, you know, 20 feet, the, the fish can’t zone in on things like that. So it’s more based on, on, in Stillwater it’s more based on movement and profile, right. Shape, movement and profile. That’s what they zone in on as opposed to detail. Right. That’s what’s gonna catch a fish’s a attention. So yeah. Dave (22m 48s): Perfect. I’m seeing it now. And the, I’m glad you mentioned that, the Stillwater Edge podcast, because you’ve got the, the full thing here. And I’m looking at some of these mastering cron, mid hatches, you got Leach versus Woolly. Bugger, you got a bunch of episodes already here. Talk about that a little bit on the Stillwater Edge. So if people are coming in to that podcast, and for me, I obviously love listening to new podcasts, so I’ll be, you know, kind of binging that as I go up there. But talk about what your plan is on the podcast. How are you choosing topics? What are, are you doing like weekly? How often are the episodes coming out? Greg (23m 19s): Man, I’m crushing, I’m doing biweekly topics. Dave (23m 22s): You are? So you’re doing two episodes every week? Greg (23m 24s): I am, yeah. Nice. Yeah, so, you know, as a former podcaster, I, I wanted to do something, but I actually wanted to do something different. I, I wanted to do it where it falls on me and something that’s just completely different to, I feel like the podcasting world for phishing. And that is like just short, punchy, snappy little episodes, right? Which are hyperfocused on one specific topic. So, you know, leach versus Willy bugger, there’s a great topic. So again, having taught, you know, many students over the years, like they, they always ask you like, a lot of this is from student questions or school of fishing and all, like, when we were doing all this stuff, like people ask us like, what’s the difference between, you know, a leach versus a willy bugger, right? Greg (24m 9s): And you know, like if five or six people are asking that I know more are thinking it, and then those that are thinking it aren’t saying anything. So it’s like, well, let’s do a topic on that, right? Because there is a difference, right? Totally. So it’s a, it’s a hyper focus. Like, you know, say for, I don’t know how long that episode is, but it could be anywhere from five minutes to 15 minutes long on what the difference is. And it’s literally just me explaining the difference in a super hyperfocused basic easy way so That everybody can grasp it. You know, like I said, these, these are short, punchy episodes where it’s just, just myself. So if you’re focused on still water, I mean this is, this is it, right? This is the easiest way to do it. Dave (24m 48s): This is it. This is the place to go. I love this. And I think when you were originally talking about it, I was so stoked on it because I think it’s a great idea. I think that, you know, we’re doing this interview style right now and it works really great for a lot of people because you’re the expert. I get a, we gotta all learn from you today. Right? And that’s the cool thing about the show you’re doing is that you’re over there just doing these quick little, you know, if you don’t have an hour, you can go get 10 minutes. And like the leaches versus woolie buggers. I’d love to hear that. Seven minutes. Okay, let’s figure out. And, and so let’s talk about that real quick. We have a link in the show notes to the Stillwater Edge podcast. But tell me, just ’cause I’m interested, I know this is off topic, but Leach versus woolly bugger. ’cause I I love both of those flies. How are they different? Greg (25m 25s): Well, they’re, they’re completely different. A leach mimics a natural food source right? In a lake. So a leach mimics a leach, a woolly bugger can mimic many things, right? So there’s a few, there’s about three differences. So a willy bugger can mimic, you know, it can mimic a leach, it can mimic a bait fish, it can mimic a cray fish, right? Due to its bigger profile. Why has it got a bigger profile? Because of the materials it’s tied with, right? And the, the next thing is, is a leach is streamlined in the water. Willy bugger is designed to push water. It’s in more of an attractor pattern. It’s a great searching pattern when you don’t know what’s going on. And, you know, the lake’s kind of at a tougher time fish, a woolly bugger. It’s a classic fly. Greg (26m 5s): I mean, I, I kind of tossed it aside for many years, but then I started thinking about it. I’m like, this is a great all around searching pattern. And it, man, it’s a classic fly, right? Yeah, yeah. You know, and a leach is, it’s a natural food source that’s in a lake that fish feed upon. Dave (26m 22s): Mm. So yeah, the balanced leach versus the woolly. But yeah, it’s just one’s more general. Yeah, it makes total sense. You Greg (26m 28s): Know, so that’s, and that’s why, right. So, and the time materials are completely different on the two one’s, you know, often rabbit strip. Dave (26m 35s): Yep. Yep. Cool. All right, well that answers that question. So let’s get back into, you know, kind of where we were at with the, you know, the CIDs and the indicators. So we talked about the leader. I think we got that Dow we talked about finding fish. Let’s talk about the, the casting, you know, so That is a tough thing. You got all this weight, you got a long, maybe a 20 foot liter or now first off, on the line, are you using, is this typically a six weight? What’s your rod line set up? Greg (26m 60s): You know, I, unless I’m going for going for smaller fish, I, I only fish two rods. So I fish either four or a six. That’s how I do it. I stay away from the fives and I more often use a six, you know what I mean? Unless I go to these smaller lakes, I’ll use a four paired with a fly line. ’cause it’s windy. When it’s windy, you need that line to punch through the wind. So, you know, so I definitely do that is the, is fish that’s six weight most often. Dave (27m 30s): Yep. Six weight. And that’s, is that a nine foot or a 10 foot? Greg (27m 33s): So that’s the thing too. So I’m actually, I using the lamps in radius. Oh cool. Yeah. Fantastic rod. And that’s the 10 footer for Stillwater. Dave (27m 42s): So you’re using a 10 foot six weight. Greg (27m 44s): Yeah. 10 foot six weight for indicator fishing. You want that? We, we, again, another episode. But you always want that leverage And you need that leverage for so many reasons. You know what I mean? On Stillwater, I can think of like five reasons why you want that, but you definitely want do that. But don’t, you know, what if someone has a nine foot rod? I need to say this, and this has always been my disclaimer. Yeah. If you have a nine foot rod, you can absolutely 100% still fish indicators and still catch fish, right? Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s key, right? But you know the best tool for the job, right? You can still build a house with a hammer or you can use a nail gun, right? Like, you know what I mean? Like, but we’ll get the job done. Dave (28m 21s): Yeah, totally. That’s awesome. So 10 foot six weight is a good rod for a number of reasons, but yeah, nine foot, five weight would work. You know, too if, if you had one, you betcha. Yeah. So we have the setup, we got that. So if I’m out there, we find a little lake and now talk about size. What if you had this little tiny lake versus you said the giant, you know, lakes. Do you, are you changing your tactics based on that? Or, or is this is gonna work in small or big? Greg (28m 44s): It’s gonna work in for the tactics? The tactics are always gonna be the same. This is where everybody fails is the, is exactly what you just said. Is there a difference between a bigger lake and a smaller lake? And it’s, if you know how to break down the lake, you’ll know how to find the fish. And what you’re looking for are those three areas. It doesn’t matter if the lake’s, you know, the size of an ocean. Yeah. You know, like, or if it’s a tiny little, you know, backyard pond, you’re looking for structure, you’re looking for weed beds, you’re looking for drop-offs. Those are your key areas. That’s where the fish are gonna be. Right. So as long as you always approach a lake with, with that in mind, you’ll be able to find fish. ’cause that’s where the food sources are right in still waters. Dave (29m 27s): Yeah, that’s right. That’s so structure, weed drop-offs. Yeah. Greg (29m 31s): That whole la toro zone area. Like that’s, if you’re, that’s how you do it. Yeah. You’re fishing those areas and, and that’s breaking down that lake. Dave (29m 38s): If we were to go to, let’s say we were go to one of these lakes that you know of that you think you can get into one of those potentially 30, you know, I, my my guess is a lot of people are thinking like, how do I, the 30 inch is the big mark, right? That’s, yeah. That’s how do you, how do you, if you’re on that lake, how are you finding that 30 inch fish? Or is this something where you kind of might even know, or, or can you go generally say this is where the bigger fish are? Greg (29m 59s): Yeah. So those are trophy lakes, right. And trophy lakes required a bit of a different tactic and di bit different, you know, presentation trophy lakes get a lot of pressure because a lot of guys go out there thinking they can catch that 30. Yeah. You know, 28 to 30 inch rainbow, you know, consistently. And I gotta be honest, like it’s not a consistent game. It’s not a game. No. You can put in as much time as you want And you won’t always have that consistency. It’s, it’s a hard, it’s a hunt. It truly is. It’s like when I went permit fishing and that was a hunting game and you know, I’ll tell you like, it’s the same thing going after those big fish and it’s a game of a bit of skill and luck together. Greg (30m 39s): That’s where that kind of rubs in together. But things change. Your presentation style changes, your approach changes on how you present your, I mean, these are big fish and they didn’t get big for a reason. Right. Like they, they’re smart, they truly are smart. But it’s fun. Right. And, and can I get you on there? I, I can’t guarantee a fish, but I can get you to the zone. I can get you, we can get hits all day, you know? Yeah. It’s up to the angler to I can, Dave (31m 2s): It’s up to the angler. Greg (31m 3s): Yeah. It’s up to the angler. Dave (31m 4s): So, so you just gotta put your time in, like you said. So whether if you’re, if there’s a 30 inch fish you’re chasing, you’re gonna use the same method of trying to find out, you know, where they’re at starting, whether that’s, if it’s 20 feet Yeah. Greg (31m 13s): Yeah. We’re breaking down that lake, going there based on what the day is based on where the wind’s blowing based on everything. Gotcha. I don’t know until you get there. Dave (31m 22s): Yeah. Until you get there. Yep. Do you guys have lakes up there? I mean, it’s always, always compare the thing, you know, the us more people, things are super pressured BC or just Canada general, less people. Do you find there’s places that are super busy, like your crowded lakes or, or is there most lakes not that so, Greg (31m 39s): So yes and no. So at the beginning, because we, you know, our, our lakes freeze over up here, you know, come December, December to about about a week or two. So April, let’s say mid-April. Okay. They, they freeze over. So when a lake has its ice off and it’s within close within a region, and it gets announced that lake will receive a ton of pressure because everyone’s itching to get out. Right. Right. Yep. As the lakes slowly start to open up, other guys will start dissipating and hitting other lakes. You do have your, your commercial lakes. So like your, you know, your, I’m gonna call ’em family lakes where, you know, someone comes up here, they don’t really know what they’re doing, they’re gonna fish these lakes and it, it, it can be busy And you know, they’re fishing in some of the worst times like July, right? Greg (32m 28s): Like, Dave (32m 28s): Oh, right. So July is not a good time to fish. Greg (32m 32s): It is definitely a harder time to fish. And when these people that come up here and they’re camping and stuff like that, like they’re fishing, you know, midday hot day July, and they, you know what I mean, that’s a hard time to fish. You can still catch fish if you again, know what you’re doing, know where the fish are. Right. So it is, you know, it’s totally doable, but if you don’t know what you’re doing, it’s, it’s gonna be a, a challenge. Dave (32m 52s): Yeah. And it could be busy. So the family lakes or the areas and are they stocking? I mean, are these lakes where they might be stocking fish more regularly? Greg (32m 60s): Yeah, a hundred percent put and take a hundred percent. Because they, because those lakes will get hammered and, you know, anything that’s, you know, you’ve all heard the term pan fry. Well everything’s a pan fry then, right? Dave (33m 11s): Yeah. You can kill, you can go. So you can go up there and get some small fish to eat on the fire. Right? You bet that Right. Which is cool. Which Greg (33m 17s): Is great because that’s the, like, again, it’s a put and take fishery stillwater. And that’s what’s great. And that’s why Stillwater’s growing because there’s so many regulations on different fisheries in British Columbia. Yeah. That, you know, this is a sport fishery that, you know, someone that is a, let’s called them a three time a year angler, they can come up here, they can catch a little rainbow and with their family and have that experience. And you know what, that’s great. It’s it, I avoid those lakes when I’m taking my guide, when my we’re taking clients out guiding. We don’t need to go to those lakes, let let other people go to those lakes. Right? Yeah. So that’s what’s cool, right? So it works for everybody. Dave (33m 52s): Patagonia just launched the next evolution in waiters and they’re built for anglers just like you. The swift current line includes ultralight, packable options for the hiking crew and expedition ready waiters. If you’re hard on your gear like me. They’re designed for comfort, built from recycled materials and backed by Patagonia’s ironclad warranty. You can check them out right now at wetly swing.com/swift current. That’s wetly swing.com/s W-I-F-T-C-U-R-R-E-N-T Swift current waiters, check ’em out now. We wrapped up a 5,000 mile road trip to Wisconsin last year. Dave (34m 32s): And our project m from four wheel campers made the entire journey better than we imagined from remote camp size to spontaneous detours. 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I, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean people are, they fish tiny little midges of pyramid. Dave (35m 36s): Oh yeah, they do. So pyramid, they fish midges too. Yeah. Yeah. Greg (35m 39s): Right. And then, I mean, Henry’s lake right down where you guys are like, yep, ING’s fantastic. Dave (35m 45s): It’s all good. Yeah. That, I think that’s the one cool thing about this is that yeah, you can learn this technique from you, you know, from Phil, from whoever, the experts, and then just take it to your home water and like you said, absolutely. And the kids, I think the still water is actually a really cool place for kids to get started because especially if you have a boat, you can get ’em out there in the boat. Right. Talk about that a little bit. You have some kids that, I think your kids are a little bit older than mine was that, are you still, are the kids at the age where they’re still loving? Do they get out there fishing with you? Yeah, Greg (36m 11s): I, you know, I brought them out two weeks ago And we, we went to a lake ’cause we wanted to, I I was telling ’em about this strain that the government put in called the horsely strain. And these fish grow big and they’re aggressive and whatnot. So I put, I brought the fish, or sorry, I brought the kids to fish And we were out there and then they just, they did so well. Dave (36m 30s): What were you guys doing? What, what was the technique you guys were doing? So Greg (36m 32s): We were, we were indicator fishing. And it’s funny because I’m at the, ’cause the kid, my kids are 12 and 14. Okay. Okay. So I’m out there where I’m like, okay, I’ll cast ’cause there’s two of them in the boat. I’m like, I will cast for you guys the indicator’s out And you guys do the rest. And I swear to God, so they landed 10 fish, big fish we’re talking, you know, like four to six pounds and wow, what is it called? So they did that. They landed 10 of those, but they lost 20. And, and what I mean by that is because I’m like, Hey, your indicator’s under, and they’re like, really? Is it? And I’m like, well pay attention to it. Right? Like it’s an inch and a half under the water. Right. So I’m like, they’re like, well, and again, it’s a teaching moment and they could have had way more. Greg (37m 13s): And they’re like, we could have had a big better day. I’m like, you could have, but I go that it was a teaching moment. Dad can do that for you, but it’s, I want you guys to learn. Right. And it is really cool. And they’re learning, right. And they’re trying to, yeah. You know, the, the older boy was getting in where he was sat, but he didn’t, you know, he didn’t strip in or, or something like that. And he’d lose the fish. And I’m like, I’m like, it’s just a fish. Cause we’re, you know what we, we’ve already caught a lot today. Dave (37m 34s): Yeah. Is that what it is on the, on the fish when you’re, when that indicator goes down? Is it, can it be super subtle? Like, talk about that. How do you know when Greg (37m 42s): Oh, absolutely. That that is, that’s what’s one of the best things. Right? So Stillwater fishing is, is, again, I love talking about this is because in Stillwater that fly, so That chron bit is, you know, sitting there on the bottom. Dave (37m 56s): Yeah. It’s just sitting there. Right. I mean, it’s sitting there literally like a foot above the bottom just doing nothing. Or maybe moving, maybe it’s moving a little bit with the wind current. Yeah, Greg (38m 3s): Exactly. Yeah. There’s always a, a natural current. So, and I’m a fish, I can come, you wouldn’t know. Right, right. Because it’s, you know, 19 feet down, I’m a fish. I could be an inch away from that fly inspecting every little thing on that fly and I could eat it or I could swim away And you would never know the difference. So the cool thing is, is like, so when you’re doing that, sometimes they just quickly sucked it in or they nose it or mouth it or swirl around it. And you see that indicator, that indicator’s indicating to you, which is what its job is to do right. Is indicate that something’s going on. Dave (38m 37s): Yeah. Will it turn, will that indicator like turn a little bit, or what will it do with a real subtle Greg (38m 42s): Absolutely. It’ll turn, it’ll, if they suck that chron it in and they feel that that line touch their lips, they’ll spit it out really quickly. So That indicator it’ll kind of go under and then pop back up. And then you’re like, oh, that was a fish. Dave (38m 55s): Oh, right. How do you set the hook on that thing when it’s doing that? You, Greg (38m 58s): You, you tip to the sky. So as soon as that indicator is moving or under, or you think it’s a fish tip to the sky, Dave (39m 4s): Is it a hard, is it like a, a super, like rip it as hard as you can? Or is it more like answering your phone? Answering Greg (39m 10s): Your phone? Yeah. A good answer in your phone, A solid answer in your phone. And then you wanna get, make sure you get that tension on that line is when you hook them, they’re gonna swim. Right? Yeah. If they swim towards you, you make sure you start stripping in some line. If they’re, you know, you, the, the key is when I say, and I guess I should point that out. So Yeah, tip to the sky. Make sure that you’re holding the line And you, your other finger, like in your ru like one of your Oh, right underneath the rod, you need that tension on that line. Right. Gotcha. And that’s where, again, when I, that story I was saying is my kids were, would tip to the sky, but they wouldn’t have the tension on the line. So therefore the fish could easily, you know, as soon as you put that tension on that line with the rod tip to the sky, it’s, you know, it’s came hard then Dave (39m 49s): That’s it. So if you’re a right hand caster, you’re gonna have, like, your index finger will have your line in holding it. So you could stop it and put pressure on it at any point. Perfect. Greg (39m 57s): There you go. Well, yep. Dave (39m 59s): Yeah. Okay. And then is it typically, you mentioned lamps And we love Nick at Lampson and all the good stuff they’re doing, of course they’re known for the one, the lightest reel in the world, right. In Lampson. But is it typically that you’re just stripping them? Or are you getting ’em on the reel in a drag A lot. Greg (40m 14s): Yeah. You’re stripping, you’re doing both. So if you can get them on in a boat situation, if you can get ’em on the reel And you need ’em on a reel, and there’s a, a variety of reasons why is number one is when you start getting all that fly line around your feet in your boat, you know, next thing it is wrapped around an or or a seat or you know, a gut like a Gunter. Right. And that fish takes a run. It’ll, if it, that fly line catches on, you know, a rivet in your boat, you’re done, boom, it’s gone. And if we were out fishing that day and that’s your 30 inch rainbow, and that fly line stops that fish, the chances are that tip it’s gonna break. Right. And you’ve lost that fish. Yeah. So having it on the reel is, is absolutely critical in, in that. Greg (40m 56s): Okay. Now there’s times when that fish is swimming towards you, you don’t have the opportunity, you have to strip that. You have, again, keeping that pressure on that fish, you have to strip that line in. And then once you have that fish under control and you’re managing that fish, hence why those 10 foot rods are so great. Oh yeah. You can start reeling in that, that slack line that’s around your feet to get it on the reel. And I highly suggest someone does that right away. Yeah. You know, it’s definitely key. Dave (41m 21s): Well that’s, that’s killer. I mean that’s a big part of it, right? Once you get a fish, if we go back to the, before you get the fish, and I saw you do a video, I think it was a video, or it was, maybe it was a, a reel. It was great. ’cause you were showing your stripping, you know, different. And you’re talking about the point you’re making was different, you know, mix it up. You know what I mean? But talk about that. So if you’re on indicator, are you actually also now can you strip in that or is that mostly you’re letting it sit there? Greg (41m 45s): Yeah, absolutely. So you can do is, so sometimes when you’re indicator fishing, trout wanna move and fly. And other times too is when you’re indicator fishing as an angler, it can get boring sitting there staring at an indicator. Right. If you’re not getting a hit. So what do you do? Well, to keep yourself engaged in the fishing and, you know, slowly pull that line in, like give yourself a tiny little one inch pulse and move that indicator. Remember it’s a chron, it’s not, you know, a fish. Yeah. Dave (42m 16s): What do AEDs do? Do krons? Like what do they, they kind of like just swim constantly up to the surface or they kind of, Greg (42m 22s): They swim. They swim straight up the water column. Dave (42m 24s): Yeah. Straight up. Yep. So Greg (42m 26s): They’re in the bottom, they swim straight up, they hatch, they fly away and they move on. Dave (42m 30s): Okay. So you wanna do like maybe an inch strip, and then do you also wanna maybe mix up and do longer or faster and everything in between? Greg (42m 38s): I don’t, I kind of do a a one inch, you know. Yeah. One inch, one two inch pull, you know. And the biggest thing is stopping a pause is, and like Dave (42m 46s): The pause, Greg (42m 46s): The pause. You know what? Same with to you guys with the river stuff, man, it’s the pause, Dave (42m 50s): Right? That’s when they hit is the pause Greg (42m 52s): Always when they hit is the pause. It doesn’t matter. Like, like so many different fisheries I’ve fished and you know, whether it’s salt or, or fresh or rivers or, you know, steelheading like, it, it’s always the pause. Dave (43m 3s): It’s the pause because they’re following it. They might be following it for potentially maybe a minute, right? Or, but who knows, right? Yes. And then you’re on it, and then as soon as it stops time to eat. Greg (43m 11s): Yeah. It’s the pause. It’s crazy. The only fishery that I can think of is like, if you’re trolling, you know, in the salmon fishery where there’s never a pause, right? You’re just, that boat is moving. I mean, maybe on a turn it hits it on a turn often. Yeah. Yeah. So, which is a bit of a pause ’cause that Dave (43m 28s): Oh yeah, same deal. Greg (43m 28s): That bait would kind of drop. Yeah. I guess it’s, it’s always the pause. Yeah. Dave (43m 32s): It’s always pause. Okay. Greg (43m 33s): But yeah, but to get for the chron, yeah, switch it up. Pull it in. If you’re gonna, if I’m gonna do a fly change, I’ll slowly strip that other fly in. And quite often you’d be so surprised. And like now again, like when you’re trying fishing, like, you know, five, 10 feet from the boat, boom, you get hit because you’ve stripped that in it is chased it, which is really cool. Yeah, Dave (43m 52s): I gotcha. Okay. So that’s cool. So That gives a little summary on kinda some of the techniques, indicators, stuff like that. Let’s go back to, you know, looking at the high level again. You’re in, essentially, this is Camloops, right? Kelowna, they’re kind of all, it’s all, would you consider it kinda the same area? Or is Camloops a little bit different area? Greg (44m 9s): Well, we have a bit of camaraderie between the two of us, of course, but Dave (44m 13s): Right, yeah. More similar than like Burns Lake. Yeah. Greg (44m 16s): Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. We, I’m, I’m an hour and a half from Camloops. Dave (44m 20s): Yeah. Yeah. So Prince George, all that is more like, you get up in the Kvichak system. Greg (44m 24s): That’s the north, that’s, that’s the north, that’s northern British Columbia is what they call that area, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. No, I’m, our area is a great area. It’s, you know, Dave (44m 33s): Yeah. Yeah. It’s so big, you know, what I mean, that’s the thing about Canada, the provinces, is it’s, they’re so giant. I mean, literally, if you look at it on a map, just from looking at it, I mean it pretty much put California, Oregon, Washington, probably some in Mexico together. And you might have the coastline of British Columbia. Yeah, it’s massive. Greg (44m 49s): It’s insane. I mean, hey, but we’re the second largest country in the world, right? So, Dave (44m 53s): Yeah. Right, right. Totally Greg (44m 55s): By landmass. That is Dave (44m 56s): By landmass. You are. Right. So you’re the second. So what’s the first Greg (44m 58s): Russia? Dave (44m 59s): Russia, of course. Yeah. Russia’s first. So we’re exploring this little area of kinda southern bc you know, And you’re not far from a couple hours, right? From Vancouver. Greg (45m 8s): Yeah, I’m four hours from Vancouver. Dave (45m 10s): Oh, four hours. Yeah. Greg (45m 10s): Yeah. Four hours, which is pretty close. Yeah, it’s, and this is, this is the Mecca. I mean, if you wanna catch, you know, big rainbow trout. This is the Mecca. Dave (45m 20s): Yeah. This is cool. I’m excited about this. And we’re gonna talk more. So let’s take it outta here in a little bit where, this is our Instagram story segment here. And we’re going to, I’ve got a few more questions for you, and then we’ll start to take it out. But for the Instagram stories, I know you’re doing some stuff on Instagram. Give us a, give us, do you have a fishing? You talked about one with your kids, but do you have a big fish story? Have you, have you landed some of those big rainbows up there or something you could share with us? Greg (45m 45s): Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Dave (45m 46s): What’s your, do you remember one, like what, what’s one memorable one where you think and, and talk about how you caught that fish. Like what were you using? Were you using indicators of what that Greg (45m 54s): Look like? Yeah, I, I mean, been at some trophy lake, been working hard, worked all day, and all of a sudden, you know, you see, start seeing that little light coming on and you’re just like, man, this has been a, a grind of a day and nothing really happening. And, you know, you’re slowly starting to pack up a few rods. ’cause I have about, you know, eight rods in my boat at all times. And all of a sudden I just watch that indicator go under and boom, lift it up. There it is. And you’re bringing in a nice, you know, 28 inch rainbow. Yeah. Right. All on agronomist. Dave (46m 25s): On the indicator. Greg (46m 26s): On the indicator. And those are, those are great days. I can tell you another great one too was last year, actually, last year at ice off with my son, he had a, a massive fish. And again, he just, he couldn’t fight it. Beat a new fisher. And we were at a lake and it was ice off. He was fishing a balance leach under an indicator that leach slowly went under. I’m like, you have a fish long lift up. He did. And it was just a tank of a fish. And we got it right to the boat. The water was gin clear and yeah, my estimate on that would probably be about a 28, 29 inch rainbow and Wow. And we just went to get it, that fish just darted right under the boat. He’d just being a new angle, couldn’t get the no on there. Greg (47m 7s): And boom, the fly, actually the fly came apart. Dave (47m 11s): Oh, it did. Greg (47m 11s): When we came in, we brought that in and the eye was still attached to the fly. Dave (47m 17s): No kidding. Oh, so the hook, did the hook bend Greg (47m 19s): The hook bent. Oh Dave (47m 21s): Wow. Bent the hook Greg (47m 21s): Because it was a balanced leach. Right. That he was on. Ah. And it just came apart and it was right at the ball. Ready, just net in hand. Ready to grab that. Dave (47m 30s): No kidding. What, what was the, do you remember the color of the balanced leach? Greg (47m 34s): Yeah. Oh yeah. So it was a vampire leach classic, classic, classic pattern that you need, if you’re gonna do Stillwater Ice off. Dave (47m 41s): Okay. Vampire Leach. Greg (47m 42s): Vampire Leach. Great pattern. Yeah. It’s actually a Stillwater must it needs to be in your box. Dave (47m 47s): It does, Greg (47m 48s): Yes. Dave (47m 48s): Yeah. Awesome. All right, VAPA. And that’s what today, we’re not gonna get into all the techniques. We’ll have to bring you back on and talk more about some of this other stuff. But, you know, we did talk, I think, CIDs, anything on the CIDs you wanna, anything else we missed or you wanna highlight just on the CID fishing? You know what, Greg (48m 3s): It’s not as intimidating as people think. I think that’s what I need to highlight is it’s not as intimidating as you think. Listen to the podcast. Build the same leader setup that I’ve done. It’s, I’ve been doing it for years. You know, I got 20 years of doing this. So, you know, use that leader system. It’s, it’s, it’s there. It’s a tool. Follow it. Have fun. Dave (48m 22s): Yeah. Perfect. And what is the, what is your, you know, we talked about July. I think that’s gonna be the time we’re probably gonna be swinging up to there. But what is your favorite? I, is, is ice off better or is more the fall? What, what times do you like to really hit it Greg (48m 34s): Hard? I like to spring in the fall. Dave (48m 35s): Spring and Greg (48m 36s): Fall. Yeah. Spring. In the fall, particularly when the water, so it’s when the water temperatures start getting to that 50 mark. Mm. Oh man, it swipes out for kran fishing. I mean, there’s days where I, we can put two anglers in a boat and we’ll get 60 fish. Wow. You know, 30 a piece or Dave (48m 54s): So. It just warms up enough or it gets in that Right. Where it’s just the prime time eating and feeding Greg (48m 58s): The prime time it’s indicators down. You, you can’t keep them off, you eat. Actually, those are the days where you can’t even eat your lunch. Like Yeah. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. Dave (49m 7s): They’re Greg (49m 7s): On it and, And you have to tell clients, it’s like, do not let that rod, you know, it needs to be in a holder or it needs to be in your hand. ’cause that rod will just get pulled right in. So those are those days. Right. Those are massive times. And the, you know, obviously the feed’s on, you know, but when you’re coming up, it’s a great time too. It’s, you know, as long as we hit it in the morning or in the late or evening. Dave (49m 29s): Right. Hit it when it’s cooler. Right. Yeah. Greg (49m 31s): And then, and then you change tactics during the day for when it’s that higher tempera go deeper, right? Yeah. We go deeper and, and do different tactics, like a long lining chron mid tactic, which, you know, we’ll talk about another day on a show, but, you know, that’s how we get them then. Right? Yep. Dave (49m 46s): Wow. What are the, just quickly, you know, like rapid fire here, what are the other techniques? You know, you’ve got balanced leaches. Sure. You’ve got what other types of techniques? Greg (49m 55s): So there’s a naked type technique. There would be long lining technique. There’s a, a washing line, which isn’t so much allowed up here, but in other regions it is. There’d be the dangle, which is what we would probably be doing when you came out. That’s a highly effective technique. So those are a few good techniques. There’s always the cast and strip as well. So That wouldn’t be with Aron so much, but that would be, you know, within tractor patterns or leches or other bigger bugs that are gonna be out at that time of year for still water. So yeah, those are some crazy techniques. Dave (50m 30s): Wow. This is great. Okay. So I guess, yeah, a couple things I, I wanted to touch on here. One thing I, I was thinking about Brian Chan, you know, I think he is a guy up there. That’s the legend. Who’s Phil? Is Brian still up there going? So I know he’s not working anymore, but who’s filling his spot? Or is he’s still doing a lot of stuff. Greg (50m 47s): You know what, I, I don’t think anyone could fill Brian’s spot. Dave (50m 50s): He’s just like a famous Yeah, he’s the guy. It’s Greg (50m 52s): Hard fills. I don’t think anyone could actually fill Brian’s shoes. Yeah. I mean, he did so much for the lakes up here and he built a lot of this fishery that we’re actually talking about today. He’s been in all these, as a biologist, that’s what he’s done. So I don’t know of anyone that could fill it. I know, you know, Phil and I, we were business partners in a few things Yep. Up here. And we’ve taught schools for, for many years. And you know, like Phil’s doing it, he’s killing it. He, he, yeah. With the education department, he’s absolutely killing it with his schools. His, you know, his podcast and his Dave (51m 25s): Show everything. Greg (51m 26s): Right. His show, Dave (51m 27s): His show circuit. I mean, he is a that guy. You know what Phil is? And you know this better than anybody. I always talk about Phil Roy because he’s like probably in his sixties, right? Somewhere in there. Oh yeah. Yeah. He’s, and he, the guy is like, he could just go all day long. He’s a rock star. He’s a rock star. He could party with like, whoever, he’ll stay up and then he’ll get up and just do a full session. Right. He’s like, well, how, how does Phil do it? What, what’s the deal with Phil? Greg (51m 48s): I don’t know how he does it. I’ve been to times where I’m like, Phil, I gotta go to bed, man. He’s like, oh, come on. Right. And you’re like, Jesus. Like, you know what I mean? Like you’ve been there with that. Oh Dave (51m 58s): Yeah. Well it’s che we did that first sketched trip where we were there. Yeah, Greg (52m 1s): I remember you did like a straight shot drive and stuff. And Phil just goes, he’s like, I’m just like, wow, this guy can go, you know? And he’s just a machine and he is and he’s always on. He’s always on. Yes. He’s always on. You know, like it’s just, and it’s cool ’cause he just speaks with such passion and for me to learn, a lot of what I learned from him was like, you know, I can’t thank him enough. And I, you know, like, the guy’s awesome. So Yeah, totally. You know, Phil definitely. Yeah, he is. He’s the legend up here. So, so who else has taken the spots? I really don’t know. I mean, Dave (52m 33s): So there’s, nobody’s filled the spot yet. Greg (52m 35s): Phil’s no one’s filled the spot. I mean, like, there’s myself, like we, you know, we’re offering a great education program up here, you know, guiding I think who else would Yeah. Be up Dave (52m 47s): Here? Well, let’s take it to that with the guiding. So if somebody is listening right now and they’re thinking, man, this all sounds awesome, you know, I wanna learn more about this. What is, you know, what, what are you telling somebody if they’re calling you? Is that the thing you’re, you’re saying, Hey Greg, I wanna go fishing. What are we doing? You Greg (53m 2s): Know what, Hey, like my web designer is, is backed up. I mean, you know that. Yep. Dave. So I do have a website coming guys, and it’ll be moments right within the, within months. But I would say reach out to me on, on social media, reach out to me on my Instagram account. Let’s get you, let’s get you booked in. I have everything set and ready to send you like an email of like, boom, here you are. And then we book you in and get you a trip and Yep. Dave (53m 26s): Are you gonna be doing, are you gonna be doing more like, like are you gonna be open all months of the season or what, what’s that look like? Greg (53m 33s): Yeah, well I’ll basically, the guiding season is, is gonna be from, is from April to pretty much the end of November. That’s what I’ll guide. Yeah. I don’t do the ice fishing stuff, at least not right now. And then, you know, the bigger water here in Kelowna, I, I would need a bigger boat for that. Dave (53m 50s): Yeah. Oh, gotcha. Yeah. The bigger stuff. Right. Greg (53m 52s): But you know, that’s the still water fly fishing season for us. Right. And you know, Dave (53m 59s): That’s a big season though, April, I mean, you’re talking over six months, so, and they’re gonna come out, meet up with you, are they gonna meet up in the morning and hop on And you do have a boat. I mean, you got a, a decent sized boat, right? Greg (54m 9s): Yeah. You had to buy a new boat this year to accommodate two anglers at the, so if two full, you know, grown men wanna come Right. Or or whoever it is, two full grown adults wanna jump in that boat. We’re totally good and able to accommodate that. It’s comfortable. The boat’s been customized and decked out. It’s a Stillwater machine, Dave. I mean this is Yes. What we do, right. You know, it’s ready to go. So Yeah. To basically reach out, we meet at, there’s, there’s a certain spot that I meet at, ironically, it’s Canada, so there’s a Tim Horton’s Dave (54m 40s): Oh yeah. Meet at Tim Horton’s. Of course. Greg (54m 42s): That’s right. So yeah, we, so we would meet at the Tim Horton’s in West Kelowna and we’d either jump in my truck and drive up together to the lake, or if someone said, Hey, I wanna take my home car, that’s fine. Here’s where we’re going. Follow me. And we drive up to the, to the lake of that day. Again, a lot of it depends on that pre-meeting conversation of what your, what your objective is. If you’re going after a 30 or you’re going after, you know, a 30 fish. Right. Dave (55m 5s): Right, Greg (55m 5s): Right, right. That’s the biggest key. I wanna make sure that we’re able because, ’cause we can’t do both. Dave (55m 10s): Yeah. I feel like it’d be cool if I was coming up with you to be like, Hey, let’s go for the 30, let’s go for the numbers the first day and then maybe if we book another day, we’ll go for the bigger. Right. Because you get the technique down. Is that maybe a better way to do it? Greg (55m 22s): A hundred percent. Yeah. That’s exactly how you do it. Dave (55m 25s): Yeah. ’cause I, I mean, I would love, I, I’m not a crazy fish sno, you know, I don’t have to catch, try to catch the biggest, I’m, I love catching fish. So if I caught a bunch of even, you know, whatever, just learn the technique and then that’s cool thing is now you take that technique to your home water And you do it. Right. Greg (55m 39s): That’s right. And that’s key. That’s how you manage. ’cause when you’re, when you’re hunting for 30, it is a bit different, to be honest. Dave (55m 46s): Oh yeah. Well I think it’s probably, we’ve heard this a lot on the podcast recently. ’cause Chad Johnson, he’s been talking a lot about big fish and we’ve, you know, muskie, there’s all this stuff that they all say the same thing. Whether it’s brown trout or giant trophy fish, you’ve gotta put your time in and you’re, you likely will get skunked and it is still water. It sounds like catching a 30 inch still water is the same thing. Greg (56m 7s): Yeah. I mean, we might catch fish that day in that lake, but it might not be a 30. Right. You know, going for those big fish, it’s just, it’s just a different hunting method. Right. Like everything’s changed up. Right. What we, you know what I mean? And it’s not everything changed up. I shouldn’t say that. It quite a few things change up. Do you know what I mean? Because we’re hunting a trophy. You’re hunting a trophy. It’s, you know, and, and Chad’s a hundred percent right. Like you do have to put your time in. Dave (56m 33s): Are those trophy trout, those say the 25, 30 inch? Are they eating other fish? Greg (56m 38s): Some, some lakes they do, yeah. Dave (56m 40s): But they’re not lake trout. Obviously Lake trail’s a little bit different, but like a big, for the most part, you guys have big rainbows as the species. Greg (56m 46s): Correct. It’s big rainbows. Yeah. So, but in like 99% of the lakes up here that we’re, they’re they’re eating bugs. Right. But there could, you know, there could be mins in there. And I will tell you this though, this year, one of my goals is to try and get a big fish on a, a mouse in Stillwaters Dave (57m 5s): Oh, on a mouse. Greg (57m 6s): Yep. I want to get one on the, on a mouse pattern. And it’s, you know, obviously it’s at the d at the dusk in the evening, like, like late dusk evening and try and fish those shells and get a mouse on there. And that to me is gonna be an ultimate goal. Dave (57m 20s): That’s amazing. Yeah. I feel like the, back to the wooly bugger, I mean, I think the wooly bugger we’ve said it many times, I think is the greatest fly pattern of all time, you know, because it just, it does everything, you know what I mean? But yeah, it could imitate Right. You could be imitating a a, a minnow with that. Right? Greg (57m 34s): Absolutely. It’s an attractor pattern. It’s a, it’s, it’s like, you know, it’s like walking by a, a chocolate bar. It’s bright and colorful and it catches your eye for a reason. It’s an attractor pattern, right. You’re like, oh, I I’m gonna eat that. Dave (57m 46s): Well, one technique I, we’ll take it out here pretty quick, Greg, but I had a kind of another random question. So one technique I, you know, I used to do a lot back in the day when steel waters was, was trolling. You put on a wooly bugger or something, maybe a sinking line, And you literally in your float tube And you slowly, you troll cross or a boat or whatever. Well do, is trolling something you’ve ever done? Or why is trolling not as effective as, or, or do you think it is effective? Greg (58m 8s): All right, so if you’ve ever, ever listened to my podcast in episode one, I talk about how for many years I was a troller and that’s how I got started. And I built up my confidence and I talk about it on the Instagram. Dave (58m 20s): Oh, cool. Greg (58m 21s): Where I had, I do a video, I said, if you wanna catch a fish today in Stillwaters And you don’t know how to cast And you don’t know how to indicator fish. Yep. Get a sinking line tie on a a, on a pattern, like a woolly bugger and troll, you will catch a fish as long as you concentrate on these three areas, drop offs, weed, beds, and shoals. You’ll catch a fish. Dave (58m 41s): Right. Greg (58m 42s): You’ll catch a fish. It’s the easiest way to get started in Stillwaters and build your confidence up if you’re taking kids out. If I’m taking my kids out with a, a kid that I don’t know, I, I’m not gonna put ’em on indicators. We’re gonna troll long leaders and just troll. No, the kids get big fish. They still get the fish. Not as many, but they’re still getting fish and hey man, like that’s what it’s about. Get that confidence up. I don’t know anyone that’s gonna be like, oh, I only got, you know, I’m upset I got a fish. Right. Yeah. Dave (59m 9s): That’s why. Okay. So, so that’s still a valid technique. A Greg (59m 11s): Hundred percent. As long as you’re trolling with purpose, not, you know, like in the middle of the lake not knowing what you’re Dave (59m 17s): Doing. Yeah. Just mindlessly. Greg (59m 18s): So yeah, it’s, it’s an incredibly effective technique and it covers a lot of water fast. Dave (59m 23s): Perfect. Perfect. Good. Well, I think, I think we can leave it there, Greg, for today. I mean, this has been awesome. I do want to, one random one, you mentioned Tim Horton, so I do wanna know, I, and I’ve been there, you know, before, is it, what is it about, is it the coffee or is it the food that’s the better thing at Tim Horton’s? Greg (59m 37s): Well, you know what, Dave? I’m celiac so it’s not much for me, but Dave (59m 41s): Oh, right, that’s right. You don’t have any, yes. So it’s more just the, just the fa and who was Tim Horton? Who is Tim Horton? He was a Greg (59m 48s): Famous hockey player actually. Oh, course Dave (59m 49s): Of course. Hockey Greg (59m 50s): Was the case. Yeah, so he was a famous Toronto Maple Leaf and he invested in this coffee shop called Tim Hortons, I mean, based after him. And, and it kind of morphed from there. And you know, here we are now. It’s, it’s completely lost its roots. It’s sold out. I think it’s, you know, owned by an offshore company and Dave (1h 0m 9s): Oh it is. Sure. Just like, yeah. All, all good capitalism, right? Eventually. Exactly. So, Greg (1h 0m 13s): And now I don’t know what, now I don’t go there at all because again, I, you know, I can’t eat. So it’s it’s a donut shop, right? Dave (1h 0m 21s): Yeah. Well hockey is great because, you know, it’s, well obviously Canada, you guys still dominate. I think most of the great players have come from Canada and you know, probably are in US because they get paid more, right. Something like that. But, but what’s the hockey, are your kids still into it? Oh Greg (1h 0m 36s): Yeah. Oh yeah. It’s, yeah, we are, we’re a huge hockey family. Kids are into hockey, kids are doing the spring hockey now and Dave (1h 0m 44s): Yeah. Yep. They’re doing it. I love it. What are the chances? I always think of the NBA in my thing is that I, when I was a kid, I wanted to be in the NBA and I think 300 people make the NBA, you know, so it’s, you know, one in a million is hockey kind of similar Greg (1h 0m 58s): Hockey’s, even worse, I think, Dave (1h 0m 60s): Oh, it’s even worse. Greg (1h 1m 1s): You spend more on equipment, more on gear, more on ice time and everything like that. And Dave (1h 1m 6s): You know, of course it’s not about that, it’s about just the kids. Yeah. Yeah. Greg (1h 1m 8s): I mean these, I think it’s the parents that just have this illusion of, or, or disillusion, whatever it is, if Yeah. Kid making it. And you know, we, we’ve explained to our kid that you’re not gonna make it and there’s not a scholarship in sight, so don’t worry about it and just keep playing for fun until you say no. Yep. You know, it’s just, it’s not in the cards. He’s just, you know, Dave (1h 1m 28s): It’s a good way to remind No, I think, I think any activity is good as long as you’re, you know, doing something right. That’s always for the kids staying busy. Greg (1h 1m 35s): Absolutely. Right. You know, for for kids to get out there and whether it’s fishing or hockey or NBA or you know, like basketball, whatever. Right. It, yeah, just get out, have fun, you Dave (1h 1m 44s): Know? Perfect. Cool. All right, Greg, well, we’ll send everybody out to Stillwater Edge out there on YouTube on the podcast. Yeah, I love it on Instagram and yeah, man, this has been a lot of fun. I think we’ll definitely be following up with you and keeping up and, and hopefully getting a trip sometime soon. Well, Greg (1h 1m 59s): You’re always welcome here, David. You know that, so you know. All Dave (1h 2m 2s): Right. All right, man, we’ll be in touch. All Greg (1h 2m 3s): Right, buddy. Dave (1h 2m 5s): All right. Your call to action today is go check in with Greg on YouTube Steelwater Edge, subscribe to his channel, follow some of those shorties he’s got there. Also his podcast, Steelwater Edge, subscribe, follow that show and you’ll get some nice nuggets, like you said, 10 minute bite-sized nuggets to get little updates. And in an hour you could watch six of those probably. So go get your feel of content if you need more of Stillwater right now. Just wanna remind you before we get outta here, we have a CJ’s real Southern podcast will be live next week, and I wanted to make sure you can go after and chase some bigger fish on flowing rivers. Dave (1h 2m 47s): Chad Johnson, the Southern CJ’s Real Southern podcast, this one is epic. I appreciate you for stopping in today and listen all the way till the end. I hope you have an amazing morning. Hope you have a great afternoon. If it’s evening, if it’s late in the evening and you’re still listening to this one, maybe on a road trip, I always think of the road trip or maybe you’re flying across the country. I appreciate you for sticking all the way to the end, And we will see you on that next episode.