Jenny Weis provides us an update on Pebble Mine project and what you can do this week to help protect almost 60 million salmon in one of the most important habitats in the region.

We find out why this small project could become a much larger project if it’s allowed to move forward.  This is a big year and the call to action for you is to reach out to your local and federal representatives to know you oppose this project.


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Pebble Mine Show Notes

11:24 – Here is the Environmental Impact Statement as released by the Army Corp of Engineers.

12:00 – If the project moves forward past the federal permitting then the State of Alaska will have the next chance to stop the mine.

20:30 – I note the Bristol Bay trip I’ve been looking to put together.  We are heading up to Kulik Lodge if we can find 6 people who want to join.

21:05 – Jenny notes the importance of video in their campaigns.  Here’s some underwater footage of salmon at Save Bristol Bay.

222:55 – United Tribes of Bristol Bay represent a number of tribes from the region that are affected by this proposed project.

24:00 – The Tribes, commercial fisherman and sport fisherman are all on board to support.

30:00 – We talk about the Hanford Nuclear Plant and what is currently being done.  This is the plant the produced the plutonium for the bombs in WWII.

31:10 – Earth Works produced a study that says 93% of these types of mines exceed there water quality standards.

33:30 – Brian Okeefe was on the podcast in episode 78 and talked about the Morish Mouse pattern.

34:25 – Here’s the quote about how Anchorage and how it’s not quite Alaska.

36:50 – Here’s theSave Bristol Bay Take Action Button.

37:20 – includes all of the documents and is pretty technical.

38:10 – FlyOutMedia have made a few fly fishing videos in Bristol Bay.

40:00 – Get your Save Bristol Bay stickers here.

42:10 – You can get your free year subscription to TU by joining the Wet Fly Swing Members Society here.


You can find Jenny Weis here.


Videos Noted in the Show


You can Read the Full Transcript below

Click here –>> Pebble Mine Update with Jenny Weis from  for the PDF Pebble Mine Update with Jenny Weis


Jenny  0:00  

The issue comes down to size, type and location. So those three things about the mine make it incompatible with the fishery. So it’s it’s absolutely massive. It’s a type of mining that’s known to harm the fishery. And it’s in a location at the headwaters of two of the most important rivers that if there was a spill or accident would likely cause both of those cause harm to both of those river systems. And because of that would just decimate a lot of the fish base industry in the region. That was Jenny Weiss describing the potential impacts from a pebble mind. Yep, we’re still talking about pebble This is the wet fly swing fly fishing Show Episode 128. Welcome to the wet fly swing fly fishing show where you discover tips, tricks and tools from the leading names in fly fishing. Today, we’ll help you on your fly fishing journey with classic stories covering steelhead fishing, fly tying, and much more.


Dave S  1:00  

More a how’s it going everyone thanks for stopping by the fly fishing show if you’ve been enjoying the podcast and want to support the show head over to wet fly swing comm slash members and sign up for our member society. We have a new live event that might be coming to your neck of the woods soon. Signing up for the member site a will be a vote for you to maybe take the show close to your hometown. If you want to hear more head over to wet fly swing comm slash members to support the show and your journey. In today’s episode we hear from Jenny wise Sue has been trying to protect Bristol Bay and gives an update on the Pebble Mine madness. Find out why we are talking about pebble again. What you can do to help protect it and why copper in your device right now. Is what they are digging for. 56 million reasons to listen to this episode today and have an impact

56 million let that sink in for a second.

So, without further ado, here’s Jenny Weiss from Trout Unlimited.


How’s it going, Jenny? Great. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for making the time to come on. I’m sure in a busy schedule. We’re going to talk a little bit about Bristol Bay specifically, I want to dig into the pebble I guess. I guess you’d call it controversy issue. Whatever it whatever name you want to put on it. I think it’s interesting because it’s popped up back in the news and I want to talk about that but can you just give us before we jump into it a little, a little brief history on on pebble for somebody that maybe has never heard of it?


Well, I like to start talking about pebble with just a quick intro to Bristol Bay. Because that’s really the reason so many organizations are diving in on this and concerned about the idea of pebble

so the mind it’s a it’s a gold, copper and gold Lib Dem mining proposal, but it’s proposed at the headwaters of two incredibly productive rivers in the Bristol Bay region of Alaska. It’s at the headwaters of the new shakin Queen jack rivers. And the Bristol Bay region is often called salmon country or a salmon powerhouse. It’s year after year been producing record runs of wild salmon and in return that feeds a trophy rainbow trout fishery and hunters and anglers from around the world love to go there to catch fish in addition to the commercial fishery and the native populations of the region that depend on the fish there. So because of the type of mining that’s proposed at Pebble, it has a high likelihood to pollute the water that sustain these fisheries and thus the people of Alaska. So that’s kind of what’s at stake. It’s it’s sort of this, you know, people come out and say we’re not against mining, but this is the wrong place to do it.


Dave S  4:09  

Yep. It’s, it’s, it’s pretty much at a place that it sounds like it’s a place that, you know, you hear the word mitigation stuff, you know, occasionally but it sounds like this is a place where you can’t really mitigate for this because it’s just it’s irreplaceable to habitat. There’s nothing like it in the world.


Jenny  4:25  

Absolutely, you know, we what we’ve seen across the Pacific Northwest coast is kind of dwindling stocks as you go south from Alaska and Bristol Bay is this stronghold. And, you know, when you fly over it and a plane, you can see that it is that way because it’s undeveloped, and there’s miles and miles of intact habitat. So if they want to keep expecting to see these strong salmon runs and amazing fisheries, that that’s the key component that needs to to remain


Dave S  5:00  

That’s and the bottom line is if we can’t protect the, the the best, most productive, you know, native, fisheries or native resources then yeah, then we probably don’t have much left to go on. Sounds like all right. So which species now? Are we talking about up here? Does it have all the species or what are the what are the focus for this area?


Jenny  5:19  

Yep. So it’s got all five Pacific salmon and then rainbow trout, arctic char, Dolly varden. grayling, and then pike and lake trout.


Dave S  5:30  

Okay, yeah. So it’s got the everything and then what is so when you think of pebble you know, I remember this was an seems like a number of years ago. Now. It was kind of out there. Can you talk about why it’s come up again? Because it sounds like it seemed like it was it was kind of gone. It’s all taken care of. And now Yeah,


Jenny  5:44  

yeah, totally. So the reason most people thought pebble was dead was because in 2014, the Environmental Protection Agency issued what was called the proposed determination, which were basically protections For the region, and it limited the size of mining that could happen in Bristol Bay to still protect the fishery. However, because of a series of lawsuits filed by pebble, those protections were never finalized. So they were left on the table, but they were never actually in place. So in 2017, a new investor that has since left but pebble got an influx of cash from this new investor and went ahead and filed its key federal mining permit. This is kind of like the big one Clean Water Act permit that a lot of other permits are based on. And so that sort of brought it back to life. So even though that investor has since walked away from the project, their their key permit application that they’ll need to get going is under review to this day by the federal government.


Dave S  7:00  

Well, and and that’s what I think the story was before is that, you know, there was the permit, but because millions of people came out and signed the petition, it basically lost support from those funders and now, and now we’re at the same spot again, where we need a lot of people to come out. And is that what we need people to do to sign another petition?


Jenny  7:18  

You know, we’re in a tough spot right now. So last spring, there was a huge public comment period on the environmental review as part of that permit. But that has since closed and for this permitting, for this key permit, that’s the only opportunity for public comment that was available. However, right now. We’re focusing on making sure that Congress and even the White House know that we need them to step in and stop the permit process. So we’re just making sure that they have seen that every step of this process the permit reviewers, which is the Army Corps of Engineers has kind of fallen short of the rigorous process that they should be undertaking to issue or deny the permit. And because of that it should be denied. So we’re still, you know, if the public wants to get involved, weighing in with their members of Congress, or the White House is how they can do it.


Dave S  8:22  

Gotcha. And probably in the current administration, I mean, So currently, the interesting thing is right now it’s February. Well, it’s almost march of 2020. We’re going into the, you know, the potentially new president or maybe the same president. I mean, you know, until we get to that point, I mean, I guess what, what do you think when you look at the political environment, cuz it’s so crazy, is it realistically, you know, do people contact the White House? Is there anything that can be done there? Or is it more talked to your local representatives?


Jenny  8:51  

Um, it’s both. So we we have a petition on our website directly to the President. And what we want to make sure He knows and any member of congress knows is that it’s really a threat to American jobs and business. The commercial fishery out there is a $1.5 billion industry. And that alone provides 14,000 jobs each year. And that’s not even counting the sport fishing and hunting industries and their viewing out there is getting to be quite a large industry. So really wanting to prioritize these American jobs and industry over the profits of a Canadian owned company.


Dave S  9:34  

So the data is out there that shows basically, you know, forget about the natural resources. I mean, that’s obviously the most important thing here. But when you look at the economics of it, I mean, is it a no brainer that you know, protecting it just for the economics versus the other side, which is what we get some, you know, some of the mining is that all out there as far as the data comparison,


Jenny  9:56  

it really is and it seems like what we have in this permit review process is the government trying to sweep that data under the rug. So pebble is trying to claim that they can operate this mine and we can have the fish too. But the science just does not back that up. So there’s all these risks. There’s unprecedented size and water management. And all of this needs to be done in perpetuity. So long after pebble has closed its doors, they need to have a safely operating toxic waste management system that needs to sit atop Bristol Bay forever. And so all these factors of the water treatment they need to do and managing this project in such an ecologically sensitive area. This the math and the science just doesn’t add up there.


Dave S  10:49  

Yep, yeah. Okay. So basically, if somebody is interested in helping protect this area, like you said, the best thing would be just to call you know, send letters Whitehouse representative Whoever you can maybe share it with another people, you know, just to let people know that, hey, this is still a major issue. And, and so how close are we to, you know, the next steps? I mean, how what is the next step in this thing if it was, you know, to move forward?


Jenny  11:14  

Yeah. So, the Army Corps needs to release its final environmental impact statement that informs the decision of whether or not they’ll issue this permit. We’ve got a look at the preliminary draft of that, and we’re not very impressed with what we see. So we’re hoping they, you know, improve that. But currently, they’re on track to make a decision on this key permit by late this summer or this fall. So, if that happens, you know, they could deny it, which is great. If they approve the permit, and it goes to state of Alaska level fight, essentially, there’s a number of permits They’ll have to get at the state level. But for people who don’t live in Alaska, really between now and this fall is one of the final final meaningful ways they can weigh in. Yeah.


Dave S  12:11  

Wow. Wow. That’s so yeah. Talk about the interesting thing is, is that it’s final to the fall, right that november election as well. Right. Everything is coming. There’s gonna be a crazy year.


Jenny  12:21  

Yeah, absolutely. Wow. And with an issue like this that’s gone on for so long. I always like to say that, you know, people I think don’t realize how much their their voices or their small actions matter. So, you know, you might see these petitions online where you fill in your name and your email address, to send a letter to Congress or signing on to something. Those actually are really important, even though they seem You know, it takes a couple minutes and you’re like, I don’t really know what this is doing, but, but being able to consistently deliver thousands of names is really important to show calm. Congress like, hey, people are watching this and really care about it. So when you see groups like Trout Unlimited, or whoever it is, posting stuff like that, taking a couple of minutes to do, it actually does make a big difference.


Dave S  13:12  

Gotcha. So if somebody was to say, you look at the people that are listening to this show right now, and it’s probably going to be in the, you know, thousands if every single one of those people took an action, like you’re talking about, do you think that that could make a difference that could help?


Jenny  13:25  

It really does? Yeah. And especially people who, you know, live in districts of Congress, people that are influential to the President. So you never know. You never know who’s talking to who and just making sure that people know this is an issue we’re tracking is important.


Dave S  13:45  

Good. Yeah. Let’s, um, let’s dig in a little bit more, you know, to the the project itself. You you kind of know this at the start, but, I mean, are there other similar projects to this project in the past, or is this a kind of a unique thing they’re doing up here?


Jenny  13:58  

Mm hmm. So Alaska has a long history of safe resource development. But what’s being proposed at Pebble is many times the size of Alaska is largest mine. And the reason for that is that the the deposit is incredibly low grade, meaning that you have to have to unearth massive amounts of ground to get a small amount of viable materials. But, you know, as they, as they have to do that, that that means more of the kind of the aftermath in the mining process that they have to deal with. So that’s what makes it so problematic plus the location.


Dave S  14:43  

Right, right. So that’s the idea that there’s this. The big thing here is that there’s the the tailings right there, they’re building this reservoir of the basically the whatever’s left, that is supposed to I’m not even sure about that host the science there, but essentially, the idea is that I mean, an earthquake right could rupture this thing. It could takeaway though. All Bristol Bay in one shot?


Jenny  15:02  

Mm hmm. Yeah. So there’s, there’s kind of the possibility both or either of the catastrophic failure where it breaks. You know, we’ve seen examples of this most recently and Brazil or there was the one in British Columbia called at the mount Polly mine, you know, where you see billions of gallons of toxic slurry going down the river. But then because pebbles tailings will have to be managed forever. There’s also this high likelihood of kind of a slow leak, which because Bristol Bay is currently so pristine, even though it’s like slow leaks over time would would really add up and impact the fishery. Yeah, that’s crazy.


Dave S  15:50  

What is the you know, I guess again, you think about the pebble. I mean, if I’ve heard that, the part of this thing is that they’re they’ve scaled it. down I think right pebble has come back with another plan that said, Hey, we’re not doing this gigantic thing. It’s smaller than the original but but there’s also the thought that they’re going to eventually get their permits and then expand it later into a bigger and bigger thing. Is there anything to keep them from expanding the project? If they do get their permits?


Jenny  16:16  

No, I mean, they’ll have to apply for another permit. But it’s, it’s pretty bothersome, and troubling that they’re going about it that way. Because while they’re applying for this, we’re calling it a phase one permit. They’re telling the investment community that they’re planning a multi generational mine. So basically, they’re admitting that they’ve applied for this fraction of what they really intend to mine, because they know that the environmental impact that their full mined plan would show would be completely unacceptable, and they would never get a permit. So they’re saying, we’re just going to show you this right now. If we get this permit, that means we’ll already have the infrastructure we need to explain And we’ll already have put in the roads, the power generation, the port, and it’ll be much easier to keep mining from there. And the other issue with that is that pebbles deposit is adjacent to millions of acres of additional mining claims that right now are not economically viable. But pebble goes in and adds all that infrastructure. Suddenly, all those are more possible.


Dave S  17:25  

Wow. Yeah. So it seems like you know, and on, you know, the same track, I guess this question, I’ve this has come up a few times, and you know, doing the podcast here and talking about conservation issues. Can you talk a little bit about, you know, how you and you, I guess work for Trout Unlimited. Maybe you could talk a little bit about your your background there, but also how do you guys get the word out to people? Because it seems like people kind of don’t want to hear the negative news. You know, I mean, like the conservation issues sometimes don’t get as much play because people are tired of hearing of the negative stuff. Do you guys find that’s an issue and then how do you get the word Like this Bristol Bay thing? How do you guys do it? How are you helping get people connected?


Jenny  18:05  



Okay, I think I heard there’s a few. Yeah,


Dave S  18:09  

give you three right there. So,


Jenny  18:11  

yeah, so so my background personally is I have degrees in communications and environmental science. But our team at charter limited we have a bunch of scientific and technical experts that we hire on contract to help us review pebbles, plans and stuff like that. So, you know, I’m kind of always in, in coordination with our, our technical team and legal teams to make sure that we’ve actually analyzed what’s being proposed and how it will impact the fishery. And then how we talk about the negative or kind of, we call it issue fatigue a lot with pebble is, is mostly just focusing on how special the places so you know, This issue has gone on for so long and people are sick of hearing about it. But anytime someone goes to visit Bristol Bay there’s this renewed commitment and sense of like we really can’t mess this one up. It’s it’s just an incredibly special place I always like to talk about one day I was there in the fall like a couple seasons ago and I was visiting with some family and they are not from Alaska, so they really wanted to get a bunch of salmon to take home, their freezer, and I wanted to catch a big trout. I already had salmon and I just wanted some big fish and the guide was like Sure, no problem. So we headed out in the morning. They got their limits of salmon within a couple hours and super happy fish for the winter. And then we ate lunch. And by the afternoon I had caught a 28 inch rainbow trout over 24 inches. So just the fantastic day on one River. You know, that just shows like how productive the places Yeah. So, so we kind of always turn it back to that if like there just aren’t places like this. Many of them left. Yeah,


Dave S  20:14  

no, it’s it’s been interesting. It sounds like you do a little bit of fly fishing. Yeah. Oh, cool. Cool. Well, obviously, this show is mostly focused around fly fishing. So IV This is kind of connected as well. But yeah, I’ve been looking at trying to put together some trips up to Bristol Bay, you know, and because it’s such an amazing place, right? I mean, it’s known for these mousing up Rainbow is probably like you’re talking about and just this amazing. I mean, you know, and the trips aren’t cheap, you know, these trips up, they’re thousands, you know, seven some of them you know, even more $8,000 for a week. So I mean, obviously like you said, there’s the economy This is that money is going into the economy up there and that’s part of that, that billions of dollars so I think it’s the maybe the stories right, I mean, maybe that’s the cool thing. I hope that I’m gonna do my best to get the word out about this, but It seems like stories are always a good way to do it. Is that what you guys when you look at some of the stories up there? Is that how you kind of paint the picture a little bit?


Jenny  21:07  

Yeah, lots of stories. And, and we like to get out images and video as much as possible just you know, if it’s not possible to actually go visit the place, being able to see these amazing aerial images of rivers that are just read because of all the salmon that are in them. It’s pretty powerful, or there’s really cool underwater footage where you can see, you know, the rainbow trout tracing the salmon, eating up their eggs as they go down, and it’s pretty neat.


Dave S  21:38  

That’s a is that is that the Save Bristol Bay dot orgy? Mm hmm. Yep, everything’s there. Okay. And that’s just a site a separate site. I mean, you go to Trout Unlimited site, as well probably get over there. But that’s just a site just for this specific project. I mean, is that how you guys set up? Do you have multiple projects you’re working on now or is this pretty much taking up all your time.


Jenny  21:58  

Now we the trial unlimited program in Alaska works on, you know, salmon and trout issues across the state. And then nationally, we have a number of priority campaigns. So this a Bristol site is really just where we kind of lay out the case for why Bristol Bay is so special and what is the problem with with this proposal? Okay.


Dave S  22:20  

Okay. And what about you know, one thing I’ve heard stories about is especially up in Canada, that the the power of some of the tribal, you know, communities up there and how they’ve been able to knock some projects similar to this right. I think there was an oil or LNG project or something like that. But do you do we do you have the same as the tribal government? Is there that power up there are the native peoples Is that something that’s still part of your process?


Jenny  22:47  

Yeah, so we work really closely with the native groups that have kind of banded together in Bristol Bay to come out in opposition to this. So there’s a group called United Tribes of Bristol Bay direct represent I think, you know, I’ll get the number wrong but a number of the tribes from the region and we actually try to stand behind them and let them lead because, you know, the opposition really started there. And those protections in 2014 were requested by the local tribes. So, you know, we kind of back them up and whatever the sport fishing community can do to help out. We’re always there, but they’re, they’re definitely the leaders. Okay.


Dave S  23:37  

Yeah, that’s good. So that Yeah, so you have tied into the community and who are the other players out there when you think of people that are supporting, you know, what you’re doing here? So you got to you got some of the local, you know, there are other groups people involved. There’s a bunch of groups or what’s that look like?


Jenny  23:53  

Yeah, there are. There’s a group of commercial fishermen that have banded together that to speak out. So I would say it’s the primary primary groups are tribes, commercial fishermen, and then sport fishermen. So they’ll lodges and tourism industry that includes bear viewing and hunting. And then there’s a number of conservation, conservation nonprofits that have kind of chimed in as well.


Dave S  24:20  

Okay. Yeah. Cuz it seems like, I mean, I’m definitely more of the optimistic person, but it seems like where we’re going with this, that I could just see the ultimate nightmare of because, you know, hoping the federal government’s gonna, you know, and I’m just, I’m thinking more of the kind of in the White House that that’s gonna solve this problem. I’m a little skeptical about that. So I wonder if you know, maybe it is really going to come down to more of the local piece up in Alaska. And I know that when you think of that a big part of that is who are their constituents? Right, who are the people that they are basically were voted in and it sounds like you have those people kind of behind you. Is that not the case?


Jenny  24:57  

Oh, yeah, I mean, so the region itself poll after poll shows over 80% opposes it and then statewide, around 60% oppose the project and for a state as friendly to resource development and mining. That’s that’s a really significant number. And we, you know, we have done a lot with the state decision makers to make sure that they know that Alaskans are really opposed to the idea. And we’ve got our US senators Murkowski and Sullivan, basically standing up to say that they’re watching this permanent review process really closely. And after the draft environmental impact statement came out, they basically said, you know, hey, this thing isn’t up to snuff. A lot of federal agencies said the same thing. So I think a lot of a lot of key decision makers at the state level are waiting to see what they’re going to do to make sure that they’re using the best of elbow science to review the plans.


Dave S  26:02  

There you go. There you go. So they’re thinking, yeah, so everybody’s kind of hoping for plan Plan A coming through, but maybe there’ll be some other things that they can do. Yeah, thanks. Okay.


Jenny  26:11  

But that said, I mean it’s still really important for the public to hold them accountable to that.


Dave S  26:16  

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Okay. And what is the so the mine itself it guess it’s mostly its copper is that is that mostly what what they’re looking to get out of this?


Jenny  26:25  

Yeah, for the most part


Dave S  26:26  

copper and what is copper? What’s the number one thing copper is like in a day life it is used for


Jenny  26:32  

right now. It’s used for a lot of electronics and renewable energy infrastructure.


Dave S  26:38  

Yeah, that’s it. That’s it. So the phone so all the stuff we’re using to do this podcast is basically using some of the copper the copper.


Jenny  26:44  

Yeah, totally. And, and, you know, our our opposition throws that back at us all the time. And, and you know, they’re absolutely right. And we kind of have to say like, we get it like our society uses and needs relies on this, this material, but Some places are just too special to risk by this type of mining and Bristol Bay is one of them.


Dave S  27:05  

That’s it. That’s it. Okay. So I guess just looking again, I mean if you look back we kind of kind of went over a lot of this pretty quick but anything else to know about as far as the project you know, if somebody again somebody new to this and they just listen to this, do we miss anything to give them a good perspective on what this is all about?


Jenny  27:23  

So it’s all about the last intact wild salmon and an incredible fishery in Bristol Bay. It’s it’s a kind of a natural national treasure that’s still remaining. That people who go there they’re they’re just breath is taken away by the beauty and how productive the places. But when it comes to pebble, the issue there comes down to size, type and location. So those three things about the mind make it incompatible with the fishery So it’s it’s absolutely massive. It’s a type of mining that’s known to harm the fishery. And it’s in their location at the headwaters of two of the most important rivers that if there was a spill or accident would likely cause both of those cause harm to both of those river systems. And, and because of that would just decimate a lot of the fish based industry in the region. Nice. Yeah,


Dave S  28:26  

that was that’s well put, I love that simplifying and just saying size, type location. That’s an easy way to to understand why this is such a critical area. And you’re talking Yeah, I mean, you’re talking not just it’s funny when you think of the numbers of fish because down in the lower 48 you know, if you say a million fish, you know, that would be an amazing number. But up there you’re talking 10s 10s of millions of salmon, right? Yeah, just summer,


Jenny  28:51  

right. Yeah. Last summer, just this region had a return of 56.6 million fish. That’s just salmon. Yeah, yep. So it’s, it’s massive. And then just, again, to emphasize the size, one thing that really stuck out to me is I was going over the amount of kind of their water management was, which is a key issue with this mine, you know, it’s a wet region, obviously, the river systems and water is incredibly important there. And pebble estimates that they’ll have to manage between two and 11 billion gallons of wastewater per year. And to put that into context, if you were to fill up the entire 80,000 seat, Dallas Cowboys Stadium, that’s just 1 billion gallons. So the idea of having to manage 11 times that every year without without any accident, it’s it’s preposterous.


Dave S  29:54  

How do you Yeah, it seems, and the only comparison I think of because it’s kind of closer to home for me is the Are you familiar with the Hanford? nuclear that whole thing on the upper Columbia?


Jenny  30:05  

Just a little? Yeah.


Dave S  30:06  

So it’s crazy, right? It’s crazy. It’s the most polluted radioactive spot in the country. And it’s literally next to the Columbia River, right? It’s, it’s this, you know, it’s this thing that’s out there, and it’s been leaching into the soil. And, you know, they think maybe into the Columbia for years, and now they’re trying to think of ways like what do we do with all the waste, they got these humongous tanks of nuclear active waste and, and they’ve talked about, you know, moving it over to Nevada, it’s just crazy. It’s basically we have this environmental disaster and nobody can do it seems like we’re kind of getting the same thing, right. This is the same you got this dis waste that is just could potentially become the same sort of thing.


Jenny  30:45  

Exactly. Yeah. And, and you know, it, a lot of these mining companies, it’s not that they all have, you know, bad intentions. You know, but they


know they say all mining companies in permitting, say we can manage this, this project and keep the water safe and yada yada. And our report came out last year that by earthworks and it showed that 93% of operating mines exceed their water quality standards 93%. So, so that’s the reality. There’s and there are dozens exam of examples of these types of accidents happening all over the world and country.


Dave S  31:26  

That’s it. And I did have that note to the 90 and I think I wrote down 90 to 93% failure rate in the us is that kind of what you’re talking about must be the same thing.


Jenny  31:34  

Yeah, so what so water quality standards are basically them agreeing to keep the certain mineral pollutants under a certain level? So they’re, it’s 93% are exceeding those levels that they say they say they’ll stay within?


Dave S  31:48  

Gotcha. Okay. Well, I think, you know, if you have a second but get getting ready to wrap this thing up, but we do a little segment on this I call the 222. And typically, it’s I do a top two tips. We’re talking about Fishing so I’ve saved the top two flies top two tips and things like that. Do you? Would you like to talk a little bit about maybe your top two flies up there just for fun to see. I mean have you done some sounds like you’ve done some salmon and and rainbow fishing?


Jenny  32:13  

Yeah. Um, okay, well,


Dave S  32:16  

you’re on the spot. You have a spot here because I’ve had I’ve been up there a long time but I’m planning like I said another trip and I, I always love just here like, what are the flies that people are using? So do you have anything come to mind?


Jenny  32:28  

Yeah, well, I mean, the most fun is mousing. You know, it’s hard. You miss a lot of fish or at least I do, but it’s so exciting. It’s like it’s such a fun


Dave S  32:41  

top water fishing and it’s just like, the fish rise and the excitement is so high and even if you miss it, which I do all the time, they get too exciting, too excited and pull it back too quick. It’s just It’s so fun. What’s the key to so you’re mousing for somebody who’s never mouse before so you’re doing it? You know what would be a tip You would give somebody from that is that it just like let them take it or what it was. Can you paint that picture? If you’re trying to do it for somebody?


Jenny  33:07  

I’m wrong. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Just be patient. And you know, you see that fish rise, but they got it. They have to actually bite it down if you have any chance of getting them to hand. Yeah,


Dave S  33:18  

so you’re pretty much it’s almost like like dry fly fishing and same sort of thing. Where Yeah, yeah, you gotta you just gotta wait and then they hammer it. That’s amazing. So do you have I know we’ve talked Actually, I’ve had a few guests on this. I think Brian O’Keefe was talking about mousing, and he, there’s there’s a bunch of patterns out there that are definitely named patterns for mousing.


Jenny  33:36  

Mm hmm. I think I was using a Morrish.


Dave S  33:40  

That’s it. Morrison. Yes. Yep. Yeah. That’s That’s the one. Okay, cool.


Jenny  33:45  

Yeah. So fun. Um, and then, I guess, you know, for salmon, sockeye, they’re not really going after fish. You kind of just got to snag them as they’re running up the river but Whoa, whoa later in the season, they’re fun on a fly. Anything bright pink will attract a coho and they will jump and run like crazy. So it’s it’s really fun fishing and good eating. Cool


Dave S  34:15  

cool and are you up what town are you in?


Jenny  34:17  

I live in Anchorage oh


Dave S  34:18  

yeah you’re right in the heart of it that way they say about anchorage it’s like if you want to, if you want to experience Alaska get 10 miles away from acreage or something like there’s some joke Yeah, exactly.


Jenny  34:28  

Yeah, I don’t know the exact one but you know, you get outside of Anchorage and everyone in Alaska kind of is making fun of us here. That’s right.


Dave S  34:35  

That’s right. anchorage is amazing. I’ve been there a couple times. It is amazing city. It’s anything that you know, like anchorage that you love about if you had to pick one thing.


Jenny  34:46  

The access to amazing natural places. I mean, you know, you go south and you can get on the Kenai Peninsula fish the Kenai river within a couple hours. Awesome hiking or you can fly out to places like Bristol Bay I live right by Lake hood which is the largest seaplane base in the world. So yeah, so there’s just so much potential for adventure here. Cool. It’s pretty special. Yeah.


Dave S  35:14  

Yeah, well, let’s finish up that to 222. So we this I’m gonna mix it up this time normally, like I said, I’m talking about fly fishing. But we talked about kind of the kind of flies there What about like if you said the other two would be two things that people could do if they want to have the most impact on helping this Bristol Bay. This thing we’re talking about here today? Could you pick two things? What would you give in to two calls to action for the people today? They’re listening right now.


Jenny  35:38  

I would.


This is for any, any issue that’s important to you really is keep up on the latest. A lot of these conservation issues take years to sort out and you’re gonna find yourself kind of getting sick of them, but you know, pick an organization that you trust that’s tracking it, and watch their website or get on their email list, follow their social media and just keep tabs on it. And the other thing I would say is, is just keep speaking up, even if it feels like you’re making zero difference or you don’t know where that letter goes, or you never hear back from the state senator, US Senator, you contacted just know that, that that that message has value, and it’s worth your time to send it.


Dave S  36:28  

Yep. That’s a that’s a great, it is interesting, because like we said that the signing the petition isn’t there right now. But speaking up is probably the most powerful thing. You know, anybody can do.


Jenny  36:39  

Mm hmm. Yep. We always have on our website, an action page that we update with whatever is the most important thing you can do right now. So if you just go to say Bristol and there’s a take action tab. That’s it and when something else comes along, we’ll we’ll change it and yeah, keep checking back


Dave S  36:59  

and just finish it Again on that 222. So the final two I would say is talking about resources. If you had to say to resources that could help somebody learn more about maybe just, you know, kind of some of the stuff you’re doing or just you know, in general, is there any other other than T you Who would you recommend? Are there any good resources online that people could go take a look at or become a member of?


Unknown Speaker  37:19  



Jenny  37:20  

well, if you want to go straight to the source of what pebbles proposed, and how they’re looking at it, there’s a website called pebble project ei This is going to be all the documents pebble has filed and exactly what the US government has done to review it however, it’s it’s, it’s dense. It’s it’s technical stuff. So that’s kind of the role of groups like say Bristol Bay and to you is to sort of make it a little bit easier to digest. Yeah. Other resources I would say this is kind of a random one but to get a sense of what Bristol Bay is, here’s a partner we use called fly out media. They have made a number of fishing fly fishing videos in the Bristol Bay region and going through some of the videos they’ve produced on their website. People just I mean I can just watch them for hours they’re just so beautiful and really exciting to watch and it just kind of shows you like what all the fuss is about when it comes to Bristol Bay.


Dave S  38:37  

that’s a that’s a great one. I love the random stuff for sure. That’s that you know the random links the random stuff so that’s good. When you think about you know, in fly fishing, obviously in the fly fishing space, there’s tons of companies I that always come to mind when you think of you know, the the Orvis Patagonia, these great conservation companies, they’re leading the way. What would you tell somebody that’s listening this that maybe has a company, maybe a small one, whatever, whatever, you know, mediums hasn’t been a real big part of it that anything that they could do, you know, to kind of help as we’re moving in the this last year here.


Jenny  39:07  

Yeah, I mean, any, any businesses have a real voice in this because I think a lot of decision makers have this elected decision makers have this, like, you know, development and business at all costs thing. And so businesses that are existing, speaking up and saying, Hey, we our actual model depends on intact resources, and that’s how we thrive. That’s really important. So, you know, whether it’s donating 1% of your profits or having information on your website about this or whether it’s, you know, signing on to letters that get delivered to the White House in Congress, you know, handing out no Pebble Mine stickers with your products or there’s tons of ways to get involved. Yeah, but but Businesses definitely have an important voice.


Dave S  40:02  

Yeah. Is there a good place to get some of those stickers or just kind of make them yourself for on the pebble? The no Pebble Mine stickers?


Jenny  40:08  

They’re available on the website say Bristol There’s a drop down under donate called no Pebble Mine sticker.


Dave S  40:15  

Oh, cool. Good. Yep. All right, perfect. Okay, well, in the next I guess this is I you know, the next six to 12 months anything you know, when you think about coming up here, anything you want to highlight as far as as we’re getting, you know, new things, anything to be thinking about here?


Jenny  40:30  

Yeah. So like I said earlier, the the key permit will be decided by the end of the summer. So, being the squeaky wheel between now and then to anyone who will lesson in Congress at the White House, making sure that that that permit is up to snuff and kind of distressing, that urgency to other people around the country who might care about this issue. Telling people who don’t know about Especially people who love fly fishing, really? So just kind of spreading the word and continuing to speak up, and then


I don’t know, a lot depends where the fight goes. It depends on what happens with that permit.


Dave S  41:14  

That’s right. Okay. And, and if like we said a few times here the Save Bristol Bay dot o RG is the best place. And also do you have an email if somebody wanted to connect with you directly?


Jenny  41:25  

Sure, absolutely. My email is Jay W, E. Ss and Sam at TCU. org.


Dave S  41:31  

Perfect. All right. All right, Jenny. Well, I think that’s all I have, you know, we kind of it always seems like we kind of zipped through it. But I think we touched on the key points. And I’ll definitely get the word out on my end. And yeah, I guess the call to action would be to, like we said, just kind of share it. And let’s, you know, the next we got a year left a little less than a year to build up with this. So I appreciate you, you know what you do and for all the hard work and I’ll keep in touch with you. Hopefully we’ll have a good thing next year. We’ll check back with you and we’ll have some we can kind of celebrate, right?


Jenny  41:58  

Yeah, that’d be awesome. Yep, and I always tell people, if you come up to Alaska to go fishing or wherever you might be the Trout Unlimited offices right by the airport you can look us up and definitely stop in and get some stickers and help perfect. We’ll we’ll update you on the project or we’ll just talk about what flies to use and that kind of stuff. So let’s jump in and see us yeah,


Dave S  42:19  

that’s awesome. I have a little deal I give it you know, that’s really not to use they you guys offer a Oh, for businesses right a free subscription. I think a short time to get part of T you and I’ve been utilizing that for some of the members of our little community here So yeah, I think it’s a good way to get people in the door and just let them know that you know, I mean, obviously we should all be supporting to you and all that all the great things going on so cool. Well we’ll check back with you and and hope for the best this year.


Jenny  42:47  

All right, thanks so much.


Dave S  42:50  

So there you go. If you want to find all the links in all the information we covered today, go to wet fly swing comm slash 128. Please take a look at the easiest way to spell Fourth podcast and connect with one of our local events coming up wet fly swing live. You can find this at wet fly swing comm slash members to reserve your spot for the next workshop meetup or event on the water. That’s wet fly swing comm slash members to check out wet fly swing live. Thanks again for stopping by check out show day I’m looking forward to catching up soon hope to maybe see you online or on the river.


Unknown Speaker  43:24  

Thanks for listening to the wet fly swing fly fishing show. For notes and links from this episode visit wet fly swing COMM And if you found this episode helpful, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes.

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save bristol bay

Conclusion with Jenny Weis

We get an update on the Pebble Mine project and the affects to Bristol Bay and one of the most productive and unique resource in the world.  Jenny tells us what you can do today to help save Bristol Bay.