797 | Fly Fish Belize on Your Terms with Mary Alice Hoppe from Iguana House

Dave (2s): Today’s guest traded Colorado Trout streams for Turquoise Flats of Belize and never looked back. After chasing bonefish and permit across Ascension Bay. Mary Alice Hoppe and her husband Chris built something different on Ambergris Caye, a place where anglers can explore the flats on their own terms. No panga required. By the end of this episode, you’ll know when to plan your trip for tailing permit and migrating Tarpon. Why Golf Carts might be the best DIY fishing tool on the island, and how snorkeling belize’s reefs can be just as addicting as stocking the flats. This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip And what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love. Dave (45s): Mary Alice shares what it’s really like running a lodge on the beach. How to avoid rookie mistakes many anglers make down there. And what happens when a 50 pound tarpon shows up just steps from your front porch. Plus we’re gonna find out why learning to haul and cast in the wind is the biggest thing you can get ready for on your next trip to Belize. Here she is, Mary Alice from iguanahousebelize.com. How you doing, Mary Alice? Mary Alice (1m 11s): Hey Dave, thanks so much for having me. I’m doing great. How are you? Good, Dave (1m 14s): Good, good. I’m, I’m excited to jump back into this. I always love when we get chances to dig back into these topics. ’cause I know one podcast is never usually enough. So we had you guys on episode 6 87, Chris, and it was, it was cool because you have a unique program going down there in Belize. You know, it’s, it’s kind of a hybrid, I think a hybrid program is the way we, I’d call it. But you know, you got all the great species, you’re in Belize, obviously right in the heart of, you know, and we have a lot of listeners, I was just talking to some of ours that are excited about Belize. It’s like a bucket list trip. So I wanna talk about that a little bit. Maybe we’ll talk Tarpon, but take us back real quick. I know you gave us your kind of intro last time, but for those that didn’t hear that episode, who are you? Dave (1m 54s): How did the Iguana house come to be? Mary Alice (1m 56s): Yeah, so I met Chris about 13 years ago and he was fly fishing for trout in Colorado. We were living in Colorado and brought me along. I learned how to fly fish, then salt was introduced to Chris and then that’s when we were truly ruined. We fished a lot up in Mexico in Ascension Bay. And then I started doing more research about Belize and it just seemed like a really neat little country. Direct flights out of Denver and many major cities out of the us much smaller airport than Cancun. It wasn’t a five hour drive to get out to Ascension Bay. Mary Alice (2m 36s): You hop on a hopper flight for 14 minutes and you’re on the island and you could potentially be fishing that same day. And then the biggest, I guess draw for us here was access without a guide. And so this entire island, you know, it’s 66 feet of the shoreline is the Queensland, I guess technically now the King’s land, but they still call it the queen’s land. And so it’s all public, which is really unique. You know, you can’t really find that in Mexico with the resorts and stuff. And so to be able to traverse this entire island, both windward and leeward side, is really unlimited. Mary Alice (3m 17s): And that’s really what attracted us because I, you know, I love being on a panga, but I’ve been fishing for so long now that eight hours on a panga is just kind of too much at this point. I would rather be able to take a couple hours and go fish. And you know, they say if, If you wanna not fish, become a lodge owner. And that’s the truth. Yeah. And so the ability to just hop out front on the dock in front of the lodge and actually catch permit is one of the most unique experiences I’ve ever had. Dave (3m 47s): Wow, that’s really cool. Yeah. And in your, and we talked a little bit about about that last time, the fact that you have kind of this, you know, hybrid approach where people can come down and they don’t have to be guided for like seven days fully. They can do some other things. Maybe talk about that. What is it that, you know, there’s a lot of blea you hear a lot about, but how is what you do, you know, you and Chris there are different than say some of the other operations around there? Mary Alice (4m 9s): Well, my experience being on a guided boat with Central American guides can just create pressure intensity. It is, I mean, everybody gets intense on the boat and it’s fun and I, and I love the adrenaline of it, but I think all of our roots really start from this connection with nature, bringing us into these different ecosystems to connect and to connect with nature and also disconnect from the real world and really try to learn the fishery. And so being on a panga, having a guide kind of direct you in everything, didn’t really afford me the opportunity to feel free and connected with my environment. Mary Alice (4m 56s): And so the ability to get out there and do it myself, learn to find fish on my own, learn how to present to fish, all of those kind of elements of doing it yourself, similar to trout fishing, I guess just allowed more freedom. It, it really helped to fill that gap because, you know, there’s no really wilderness or camping or fishing here. The wilderness is the ocean. And so for us back in Colorado to really reset, regroup was that time in the wilderness. And so the ability to get out into the flats, especially on the windward side, on the reef side, so all of San Pedro is like a quarter mile away from the meso American reef, has just really like given us that freedom, that sense of connectedness with our environment, with a new ecosystem and just feeling free. Dave (5m 47s): So when you’re there, somebody could come in there and like you’re saying for bonefish especially, you could hop in and this is kinda your program, right? People can get, stay a week, stay whatever they want to, but they can get a, a golf cart and just go fishing on their own. Is that kinda how that looks? Mary Alice (6m 2s): Absolutely, yeah. And the cool part is, so when you, so about seven miles north of us is kind of where the road, it’s really one main road across the entire island that inevitably leads up to the cut at Ishak. And so that road goes, it turns closer to the water as you go, go further north. And so for about, I’d say 10 miles of Tranquility Bay up there, you’re just driving your golf cart along the water and you can clearly see bonefish pushing water tails from your golf cart. Wow. So the ability to, to cover a lot of, a lot of ground, but have the visibility to find fish, it’s amazing. Mary Alice (6m 49s): Yeah. Dave (6m 49s): That is amazing. No, this sounds, I love the whole, the whole picture in the golf cart is amazing too. I think that it’s just, it’s, it’s kind of funny but it’s really awesome too to think like, man, you’re just cruising around in a golf cart. Mary Alice (7m 0s): I actually have a funny story about that. Yeah. When we first bought the place and we were down here in discovering, Chris and I were up north in the golf cart and sometimes one of us will stand on the back seat and hold onto the roof of the golf cart to get that elevated position. And we’re driving along and I can’t take my eyes off the water. I’m driving, Chris is up looking and I see permit tails not 20 feet off the shore and I slammed on the brakes of the golf cart and Chris went flying off the golf cart. And it, this just can even just show like how fun and intense it can be and, and it’s just you, you don’t have a guide Yeah. Yelling in your ear about this that, don’t you see it? Don’t you see it? No, I see it because I found it myself. Mary Alice (7m 43s): And so I think it’s, it really builds confidence as a salt water angler. I Dave (7m 47s): Hear you. That’s, I think it’s really cool. And, and it’s interesting too because I mean, like you said, you, you purchased this lodge and we had Jerry IC on recently and he told these great all sorts of great stories and, but one of them was the fact that he, you know, had been living around in the US and he just, later in his life, I think he was in his sixties, he was like, we’re gonna, I think we’re just gonna buy this place down near where you are. And you know, it wasn’t for a lodge, it was just to have a place. But when he got down there, he realized wow, it was too much work to keep it up and to kind of do the whole thing. Yeah. What’s it like for you, because you have this, I mean, it’s probably a lot different, but I mean, you’ve been doing this thing, is it a lot of work? How, what are the challenges of, of what you’re doing there? Mary Alice (8m 30s): And not many people can understand the challenges of having a property specifically here. Beachfront. Our house is one of the oldest houses on the island. It’s over a hundred years old. It’s made of old Belizean hardwood, which is not typical of what we’re seeing with development now. It’s really starting to become more and more like South beach style, big white concrete mansions. And, and for me that’s not authentic bullies. And this is actually an authentic bullies in bungalow barge from the mainland. And so, you know, the upkeep is incredible. Huh. You know, it’s, it’s hard to explain unless you’re here. So things like your deadbolts on your doors are gonna seize up. Mary Alice (9m 14s): Oh yeah. And have to be replaced every year because of corrosion. Just the constant upkeep, you know, any sort of appliance with a computer in it, you’re lucky if that’s gonna last you three years. Oh Dave (9m 27s): Wow. No kidding. Mary Alice (9m 27s): And so really learning new ways to work with the conditions that we have while trying to have the best maintenance of the property, the appliances and all of those things has been the steepest learning curve of my life For sure. Dave (9m 43s): Right. Are you down there, what time of year are you down there more than you’re up in Colorado? Or how does that look? I know, I know Chris has been, yeah. Has been in Colorado recently. Mary Alice (9m 52s): Yeah. So due to Chris being an rn, his ability to find supplemental income in the states is much easier. So I’m here pretty much full time with my two black labs. Dave (10m 3s): Amazing. And talk about that. So you’re down there all the time, which is amazing. And, and what are the times, so people listening now, like I said, people wanna go to Belize and I think this is, we can talk more about what you offer there too, but what is timing? You know, you’ve got Tarpon, you’ve got bonefish permit. What would you tell somebody if they’re listening down like, man they wanna do this trip, when should they be thinking about it? Mary Alice (10m 22s): That’s the toughest question we get, Dave. Yeah. ’cause the weather has just not been consistent anymore and we’re seeing a huge shift. Like this year was the worst sargassum year we’ve ever seen. And the entire high season, high season being really from December through May was relatively tough conditions. We’re talking 15 knots plus every day and it never really calmed down. The year before was incredible. There was no sargassum, the winds were lower. So it’s really hard to predict. However, with me being down here for about two straight years now, to really see the seasons, what I saw in August and September, outside of a few storms that came through was the most lights out fishing I’ve ever experienced. Mary Alice (11m 9s): I caught four permit in front of the house in one afternoon. Oh Dave (11m 13s): Nice. Mary Alice (11m 14s): And they were hungry, like much different behavior than what you see in high season. They weren’t picky, they were aggressive and they were eating. And that’s typically not a time of year that people would wanna come down. Right. Dave (11m 27s): Because it’s kind of the summertime Mary Alice (11m 28s): And it’s hurricane season. But you know, to be honest, because of our location really close to the tropic of cancer, we do not experience a huge shift in temperatures here. The humidity can get you, but you know, I haven’t really noticed a big shift from from temperatures. You know, a lot of people are like, oh summer it must be way too hot. It really isn’t. If there’s no wind. Yeah, it’s hot. But that’s great fishing. Dave (11m 55s): Yeah, that’s great fishing. So, so that’s August, September, and pretty much, I mean there throughout, I mean I guess the question might be when is not the good time to be down there? Right. Is there a time, Mary Alice (12m 6s): Not the good time would be December, what’s Dave (12m 8s): Going on in December? Mary Alice (12m 9s): December’s like our winter, the temperatures drop. It can be really rainy. It’s just, you know, every December that I’ve been here, which has been maybe four Decembers, they’ve just not been great weather. And a lot of people wanna come for Christmas and it rains the whole time. Dave (12m 26s): Oh it does. Yeah. Mary Alice (12m 27s): Yeah. So that would be the one month that I would not recommend. I’ve had excellent luck in October and November, you know, but that’s still storm season. But the thing is, you know, with most airlines now you can change flights, we can see when storms are developing and we can stay on top of of those kind of things. But even the guides say July, August, September, ’cause July you get the migrating tarpon too. So we have a lot of really decent sized resident tarpon here, probably up to 80 pounds. But then the big boys come through in the summertime, those migrating tarpon a hundred, a hundred pound plus. Dave (13m 4s): Right. So, and I’m glad you mentioned that ’cause I wanted to hear more on Tarpon because that is a species that I’ve asked that question a number of times throughout our podcast is like, what is that number one species? And you know, whether it’s Jim Tini or Bruce Chard or whoever, you know, you always hear Tarpon, tarpon, tarpin. But what is it for you talk about that because Tarpon, and again it’s, it’s on my bucket list. I mean I, if I had to think of one species I’d wanna catch, like Tarpon would be up there. Right. But, but what is it like, how do you explain Tarpon to somebody who’s never caught a tarpon? Mary Alice (13m 33s): Well, they’re like a prehistoric fish to begin with. So the way that their bodies are built are mostly bone, which makes it very difficult to set the hook on a tarpon, which is my favorite part. It goes against everything you’ve learned really from every other species of fish, at least that I have fished for. You’re ripping that line to set that hook that you wouldn’t do for a permit. You wouldn’t do for a bone fish, you wouldn’t even do for a snook. And also the accuracy of cast. So there’s, there’s different ways to fish for Tarpon. Sometimes they present out on the windward side and they’re rolling out on the windward side in open water. Mary Alice (14m 14s): That’s super fun. ’cause they have tons of room to run and jump. So the fight is really awesome. And then, and then you have the opportunity to start casting into the mangroves. And that for me is such a challenge and so fun. ’cause I’m always trying to improve my cast. So really trying to get your cast underneath the mangroves for me is, is the biggest casting challenge here. So I, I love being able to do that. And when you see those tarpon come out from under the mangroves and eat, it’s really unique. Dave (14m 46s): And why are they in the mangroves? They’re in the mangroves because they’re protection or hiding or why are they there? Mary Alice (14m 51s): Protection. And there’s a lot of smaller fish in there. So the mangroves are habitats for breeding. And so baby fish are all tucked back in those mangroves. So it’s a great place for tarpon to not have to work hard for food. Yeah, Dave (15m 8s): I see. And tarpon, as far as the food chain, what are out there eating tarpon, they’re a big predator, right? But there’s probably something that’s, or are they not that afraid? You know, I’m always trying to think like, Mary Alice (15m 18s): I mean, I think, I think because of their bony nature that they don’t have a lot of meat on ’em. Dave (15m 23s): Yeah. Maybe they’re not a big prey. Mary Alice (15m 25s): I don’t know for sure. But that would be my guess because I don’t really hear of tarpon like getting eaten by a barracuda or a shark. Whereas that happens with bonefish and permit all the time. Oh Dave (15m 36s): It does. Okay. So if we’re doing tarpon, if we wanted to get tarpon, so you’re saying again, remind us again what would be a good month or you know, to go down there? I Mary Alice (15m 44s): Think honestly, again, I’m gonna save the summer months because there’s also less pressure. So if, If you can’t seem to locate the migrating tarpon, the resident tarpon are gonna have less pressure in the summer months. Oh nice. So more of an opportunity to hook up. Okay. Dave (15m 60s): So summer, it sounds like summer’s a good and that’s actually good for some people, you know, If you have kids right, that’s a definitely a good time. Mary Alice (16m 6s): Well, and that’s what’s so cool about here is if you’re a fisherman, you wanna have a family trip, there’s so much to do for your family. Yeah. That and you can still fish. So like, you don’t have to feel like it’s just a selfish fishing vacation because your kids are out snorkeling. Whole chain marine reserve, that’s an underwater aquarium. Like it’s incredible. Dave (16m 25s): Oh man. See, so you’re on the right, and this is, I’m gonna be selfish here a little bit. I usually, I’ve always think of our listeners and I know our listeners have definitely plenty of kids at home and stuff, but there is a chunk of older people that maybe don’t have. But for me, that’s a big thing for me. Like when I think about Belize, I think about getting the family. My kids are, you know, 11 and 13 now it’s like the perfect age. Like please I feel like would blow ’em away. So let, let’s dig into that a little bit. Let’s take us down that path. So if we’re right now I’m talking to you, I’m excited, I want to get the four of us down there. What should we be thinking about? What are you telling me first? Mary Alice (16m 59s): Definitely run a golf cart so you guys can explore. Dave (17m 3s): Is the golf cart, does that hold actually four people? Yeah, Mary Alice (17m 6s): There’s four seaters and six seaters. Dave (17m 8s): Oh, cool. Okay. So you get your golf cart and maybe come down there for a week. Mary Alice (17m 13s): Yeah, it kind of depends on how serious you are about wanting to catch fish. It’s really hard to meet goals in six days to catch fish. So if you’re coming diehard fishermen, I always recommend more than a week. 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What If you did something like two weeks we came down maybe, you know, a good saw week was just all the family stuff, all that. And then maybe there was, you know, a week of fishing and, and then it would be, you know, bonefish, tarpon permit, doesn’t matter. That sort of thing. And you know, so you’re saying summer would be good. I mean I, let’s just keep it on tarpon. So summertime would be a good time to do it. Mary Alice (18m 42s): It is, yeah. Summertime’s a great time to do it. And then there’s also a really cool option that I work with guides here. Some guides are just fly fishing guides that also have access to, excuse me, larger boats. So they could take the whole family out. You bring your fly rods, you can still fly fish, the kids can be snorkeling. Oh wow. Watching them spear fish. Then you go do a beach barbecue with the fish that you guys caught out there with the guides. Wow. And then where they actually take you to do your beach barbecue is right next to the Tranquility Bay resort. That’s, I mean, just massive bone bonefish. Mary Alice (19m 22s): I was just up there a couple weeks ago and just huge bonefish and big permit come through there too. And so there’s a lot of opportunities to combine activities Yeah, wow. With the whole family. So you can still, you can say, I’d like to just get dropped off the beach and you guys can go out and snorkel and you know, any guide is happy to do that. So the flexibility here is really awesome. Dave (19m 46s): That is awesome. And, and is that, so those are the things that, the other things other than the fly fishing, it’s the snorkeling. I mean, what are some of those things? Is that kind of the big other thing that you’re doing out there? Mary Alice (19m 56s): Snorkeling, scuba kayaking on calm days. And then we have lots of other, you know, just kind of interesting little things. We have this new eco museum that’s an old Mayan museum that’s up to the north. They actually just had a poke to poke festival. Poke to poke is an ancient Mayan ballgame where they use an eight pound rubber ball and play with their hips. Hmm. It’s pretty, it, I, I, I just went and it was one of the coolest things and we’re trying to promote more of that here on the island for tourists, because I think a lot of tourists would be interested in, in something like that. We have an iguana sanctuary down near town. It’s really cool to see. Mary Alice (20m 37s): Really. That would be cool. Beautiful. Huge iguanas. And then just like, you know, San Pedro itself is a major melting pot and the town itself is just a hustling, bustling place that I think surprises quite a bit of people when they get here. And so just the sites just to go into town and people watch, try the local food, try the street food. All the food is fantastic here. Belizean food is amazing. Oh it is. And so once you have that golf cart, your freedom to explore is endless. And another cool thing that happens here in Belize is a lot of the resorts allow public into the resorts. So you can go in and grab a drink and an appetizer and use their pool and hang out at these beautiful pools. Mary Alice (21m 24s): Oh, nice. And so it’s all very inclusive, which is much different than Mexico. Dave (21m 28s): Yeah, right. That is really cool. So, and is it, I guess one of the things you, you know, people think about whether you’re traveling Mexico, anywhere in the world is safety. Right. And, and I think that, you know, we’ve recently in the bucket, I, Brian did our series and he, he covered with Will Rice and they talked about down the path, you know, and I think that wasn’t too far, that was that, I don’t know If you heard about that story, but about the missing fly angler who was never discovered Mary Alice (21m 54s): In ish Collect. Right, Dave (21m 55s): Yeah. Ish collect. Yeah. And it was, it was this crazy story. It was really bizarre. And again, random stuff happens, you know, wherever. But, you know, it brought up the thing of safety. Like, is there a chance, what, what’s your take of somebody’s thinking? Like right now, man, is it gonna be safe? I’ve heard things about, you know, Belize. Like what are your thoughts there? Mary Alice (22m 12s): So a lot of the information that’s relayed to Americans about the, the unsafety of Belize is really around Belize City. That’s not a place to stay for tourists. I’m just gonna say that now. Like, there’s nothing in Belize City for you to really see or do. If you have to spend a night there. We have safe recommendations of places to stay, but as far as the island goes, it’s very safe. I’ve never felt unsafe here. The biggest issue are the drug runners. And that’s just the nature of Central America. We are in that area of, you know, drugs being moved around. And so, you know, the conversation that I have with guests when they arrive is If you see something interesting laying on the beach, leave it alone. Mary Alice (22m 59s): Right. That’s the biggest thing. You know? And, and just, and just playing dumb. Just be a nice tourist. And if, you know, If you run into somebody that looks a little bit sketchy, just say hello and then mind your business. And that’s how I’ve done it for all these years. And I’ve never run into an issue. Yeah. Dave (23m 15s): And you’re, and you’re on your own, right? You’re down there like doing your thing? Mary Alice (23m 18s): Well, I’ve never, I would never go all the way up north alone. Okay. I would definitely have a buddy with me and you know, but there’s plenty of places to fish closer that’s not all the way up north. Dave (23m 29s): And by North do you mean towards Mexico or, yeah, Mary Alice (23m 31s): North towards Mexico. But there’s some places just like 15 minutes north of the house compared to, you know, an hour north where there’s still great fisheries, great permit shots, but going all the way up there, I do recommend having a buddy system. Dave (23m 47s): Yeah. That’s good. No, and I, I know that, you know, just thinking about this, if we were on this Megan, I know, I was gonna say, well how safe is this? Right. Are we gonna be good with the, with our kids, with our girls? Mary Alice (23m 56s): No, it’s, it’s totally safe. The biggest thing is really like petty theft, leaving things in your golf cart, especially up north, you know? Yeah. And so just being mindful about what you’re packing, how you’re packing, can you take it out with you on the water? I always pack very light and just make sure I have plenty of water. Gotcha. Dave (24m 17s): Yeah. Yeah. No, and I think it is is, you know, like you said, anywhere it doesn’t, it could be any country, but even where we live, you know, in, in the US you got these places that are long corridors Yeah. Where there’s a child, you hear about these crazy things Right. Where kids are getting taken away Yeah. And stuff. So it’s, Mary Alice (24m 32s): Or even people just stealing your Amazon packages off your porch. Right. Like, you know, honestly I treat this place like, so I lived in Denver for 20 years, I’m not gonna go out walking the streets in Denver at night, so why would I do that here? Right. Dave (24m 46s): Same Mary Alice (24m 46s): Deal. So a lot of it’s just common sense and don’t ask too many questions. Yeah. Just say hello and, and, and mind your business Dave (24m 53s): And call it good. Okay. So, so we kinda got that, you know, behind us here. So, you know, again, back to the trip. So if we were coming down there, let’s just say we were doing this thing in, you know, in the summertime, what’s the typical fly in? You know, like talk about that. When’s the best day to come down there? Does it matter? Are you guys pretty flexible on that? Mary Alice (25m 12s): We’re flexible on that, but as far as like the direct flights go, they’re typically on Fridays and Saturdays. So like, depending on where you’re flying out of, I would pull up one of those low fare calendars that they have and start to get a feel of where those affordable flights are. ’cause as we’ve seen since the pandemic, air travel has just really shifted. Dave (25m 34s): Yeah. What, what’s happened to air travel since then? Travel? Mary Alice (25m 37s): Well in my experience it seems to be that there’s less staff available for certain things like the baggage staff and stuff like that. And so I definitely recommend trying to find the direct flight. If not, you’re usually routed through Miami, Dallas or Houston, which is fine. Yeah. It’s not that big of a deal. You know, it’s still a much shorter travel day than going to Punta Allen. Dave (26m 3s): I don’t mind that at all. For me, I, I think maybe I’m one of the weird ones out there, but I love all the, the travel stuff, you know, the extra stops and I, the takeoff and the landings, you know what I mean? I think some people don’t like all that, but I feel like Mary Alice (26m 15s): Yeah, that’s unique. Dave (26m 16s): That is unique. Yeah. So I, that’s, that’s why I need to do more traveling ’cause that’s actually the stuff that I love. But, but it is pretty easy to get down there. So we get down there, let’s just say it’s a Friday. You get down to, and you fly into Belize City and then take your hopper from there. Mary Alice (26m 28s): You fly into Belize City, it’s all open air. So you’ll get off the plane outside, you walk inside, go through customs. And depending on the time of your arrival on a weekend, sometimes it can be quite crowded. But again, during the summer months or slow months. So you shouldn’t really see the same amount of tourists, which also helps getting through. And usually it’s just a breeze. You go right through, you get your luggage, you exit where customs is. And right there is the ticketing counter for Tropic Air, which is the airline we use to get over San Pedro. And, and part of our packages include those flights. So we arrange that travel on behalf of the guests. So all you have to do is show your passport. Mary Alice (27m 10s): They take your luggage, you’re ready to go, you go grab a beer at the Pelican Draft house that’s right across from the tropic, the Tropic Gate. And yeah, just wait for your flight. You just let them know that, hey, our party’s all here. And sometimes they’ll get you on an earlier flight. The worst thing that can happen is your bag might not make it over to the island, but not to worry, it’s usually on the next flight. So we’ve never had anybody, you know, lose any luggage or anything. Not they’re really great about that. And then we have our taxi driver junior meet you right there at the airport, pick you guys up. Your golf cart will be at the house. So he’ll drive you up to the house If you guys need, wanna make any stops or anything before you come up, you can certainly ask Junior for that. Mary Alice (27m 53s): And then make it to the house. And usually day one guests arrive between three and five. We have appetizers ready, people start rigging. So our, my biggest recommendation and our favorite package is the, the seven night. Four day do it yourself package. So that’s four days guided, two days off. Nice. And the way that I like to set that up is your first day, you’re not on a paga. So it immediately takes the pressure off. You can enter into vacation mode first, rig up your rods, not in pressure when it’s dark the night before, having to wake up at five 30, be on the boat at seven, all that’s eliminated, day one. And then you can rig up and you can go fish the first day and just get your feet wet a little bit. Mary Alice (28m 37s): Go try and find fish, go cast into the wind and see what your cast looks like. And that’s a whole other aspect, Chris and myself. But more so Chris is just an excellent teacher. We love helping people with their cast. You know, we’ve had a lot of conversations with guests about what flies, what leaders, and we always bring it back to how’s your cast, because none of that matters If you can’t cast. And this is nothing like, I explain it as a completely different sport from trout fishing. It is nothing the same. Nothing. And so a lot of people come down here thinking that they’re experienced anglers and then they just get completely burned right when they’re down here ’cause they can’t haul. Mary Alice (29m 18s): And the importance of that, you know, these fish are not just sitting there like a trout eating. They’re moving. And you have, you have to have precision and accuracy and timing needs to be on point. And a lot of people can get, you know, let down pretty quickly when their skillset isn’t there. So my number one recommendation is practice, practice, practice, go to a park. Practice, practice, practice. Dave (29m 43s): Yeah. That’s it. Practice. And then the, and the weight of the rod. You’re typically, let’s just on the tarpon, what’s your recommended for Tarpon? What Mary Alice (29m 49s): Weight? My personal favorite Rod is a 10 Weight Hardy’s Everest. For everything. For Dave (29m 55s): Everything. So you fish that for For every Mary Alice (29m 57s): Yeah, for everything. That’s my go-to Rod. I love it. I love how it can cast into the wind and the power that it has. It really is depending on what you are comfortable with. And a lot of times too, when we’re fishing for tarp and we’re using a shooting line, so that’s an entirely different cast when you can just shoot line. It really depends. If you’re coming down for the big boys, you need an 11 weight or a 12 weight. But you know, a nine 10 is such a versatile rod, you can use it for so much. Yep. And, and I do, I do like my favorite line is the Rio Flats Pro and I do like the Flats Pro Plus with that little intermediate sink tip, I find it very effective. Dave (30m 41s): Perfect. Okay, so, so I think we’re building this thing out pretty good. So day one, so you get there Friday, let’s just say it’s Friday, you’re at the lodge, three to 5:00 PM you’re potentially fishing that day. But then day one, the next day Saturday could be your solo. You just have the data and if you’re there with the family, you guys are just hanging out, maybe checking stuff out or at the golf cart, getting a feel for the, and doing a little bit of fishing. Yep. Okay. So that’s day one and we’ve got six more days left. And then would you say now the next day you get ready for guided or when, when would you pick those four days? Well, Mary Alice (31m 11s): Typically how we do it yeah. Would be the next two days on a ponga and then the next day would be off. And so what we had been doing in the past was setting up a different type of tour on that off day in the middle of the week where you would go out and snorkel, spearfish, deep sea fish, not fly fishing, just a different experience to try and see what Belize has to offer. But really honestly, the, the feedback that I’ve gotten is everybody ends up getting dropped off on the beach and fly fishes. Dave (31m 40s): Oh, okay. Mary Alice (31m 42s): So I’m kind of considering mixing that. It could be an option if the group wants to do it, but I might trade that out in the package and then the golf cart would then be included in the package. So that’s something that we’re considering, you know, no matter how many times I tell people please get in the water, you have to, you have to see what’s here. And they get back and nobody got in the water. Right. You missed, you missed it. Yeah. Dave (32m 5s): You mean by, by getting in the water, you mean, you mean get out and snorkel or do something like that? Mary Alice (32m 9s): Yeah, get out and snorkel and see what’s under the water. And you know, I’m a, I’m diehard fishermen. We have the in iguana house because we’re such permit junkies. But when I get in the water with a snorkel mask, it rivals how much I love fly fishing. It’s that cool. I mean it’s really amazing and Dave (32m 25s): It seems like as we’re on this family trip thing, you know, that seems like that would even be more beneficial. Right. Because that seems like the I know the, my kids would love it. Mary Alice (32m 34s): Well, and even taking the golf cart up. So Tranquility Bay Resort is just a great central location. They have a restaurant and a bar on Sundays. They do barbecue for a really great price. It’s super fun. Oh good. And you can, they’re, they have great coral pods right around the resort there. So right on, like it’s over the water, the restaurant. And you can just get your snorkel gear, walk down the steps and just go snorkel right there next to the, the place while you can fly fish up and down the beach and like I said, big bone fish, nice permit. And then you can all come back and have some lunch and then keep fishing, maybe hop in the golf cart, drive a little further north. Mary Alice (33m 17s): I will make mention of that. We are in turtle nesting season. Mm. And so driving north past Tranquility Bay Resort, there is a new route where you can’t drive the beach, you have to go back through the jungle and that’ll take you all the way up to Rocky Point. Rocky point is where the reef meets the land and it’s a really cool area. And outside of turtle nesting season, you’d be able to drive the beach all the way up there. But it’s not necessary. You know, sometimes it’s a little daunting. Dave (33m 47s): No, I, for me, I think it’d be cool to explore all, all that the jungle. Mary Alice (33m 51s): I love the jungle drives, but just don’t go venture into the jungle. Dave (33m 54s): Don’t go into the jungle. Why, why what’s into the jungle that you could potentially get in trouble with? Mary Alice (33m 59s): You name it. I mean like snakes, fire ants, scorpions. Tarantulas. Right. Dave (34m 4s): Wow, Mary Alice (34m 4s): That’s so cool. And there’s not poisonous snakes on the island. It’s mainly boa constrictors. But If you see some of these big boas, it’ll scare Dave (34m 12s): You. Oh, it’s a big boa. Is it? How long is a big boa? Oh gosh. Or how big these are like, like they could strangle you right. Sort of thing? Or how does Mary Alice (34m 20s): Absolutely. They could strangle me. We’re talking like 10, 12 feet. Wow. I don’t know, maybe like 10 inches around. Maybe more personally, I’ve been fortunate enough to not see a full grown boa. I’ve had quite a few babies around the property and you Dave (34m 33s): Know, how big is a baby? Mary Alice (34m 34s): Maybe like four or five feet. Dave (34m 36s): Okay. Which is still, that’s a normal, that’s just a normal Yeah. Giant snake for anywhere else. But, Mary Alice (34m 41s): And the scorpions that we have here are, are the black scorpions. So it’ll hurt If you get bit by one, but they’re not, it won’t kill you. Dave (34m 48s): So nothing. Yeah. So, and that is go, but when you’re at the beach, like everything you’re saying where you’re, there’s all those critters aren’t there? There’s really nothing that’s gonna take you down out there? Mary Alice (34m 57s): Not really, no. Like sometimes what we run into in heavy rain season are those animals coming out to get the fresh water and that’s when you see them more. So like, it’s very rare to see a crocodile in open water. But last summer we saw a couple in open water Oh yeah. Because of flooding easements that would attract them into that fresh water and then they’d eventually make it over into the open water. That’s pretty atypical. Okay. And then, you know, I will on on that topic of crocodiles, do not wade in the lagoons, do not wade on the, the leeward side of the island. Unless you go all the way out to Secret Beach, you can drive all the way out to Secret Beach. Mary Alice (35m 40s): Super fun, tons of bars, tables in the water. It’s a really fun environment. Just it’s tough to do it yourself over there. They’ve been doing, unfortunately a lot of dredging over there. There’s just been a lot of development. And so you can get caught in some of this clay where they’ve dredged and it goes right down to your hip. Oh wow. And here’s the other thing just to note about the difference of the fisheries here. So on the windward side, the bottom is very diverse. You have turtle grass, you have coral heads, you have sand bottoms. So the, the backs of the fish are darker. Hmm. So they’re easier to identify. Whereas on the leeward side of the island, it’s all your beautiful sand flats and those fish turn in the ghosts. Mary Alice (36m 24s): That’s why they’re called, you know bonefish are the ghosts of the flats. Yeah. But the bonefish on the reef side are clear as day. Dave (36m 31s): Oh wow. Okay. Yeah. And the leeward side is the, is kind of the western side of Agh key. Mary Alice (36m 39s): Yeah. The lagoon side. So that’ll take you back up into the bay and a lot of people with guides run up to Bacca, Chico Marine Reserve Park up there. And a lot of that stuff is accessible with your golf cart. But again, I just, I don’t recommend doing it yourself so much on the leeward side. Dave (36m 58s): All right. Got it. So, so this trip we’re doing, so we’ve got, you mentioned the Sunday Tranquility Bay doing some stuff there and then the guiding. Do you think it’s typically good to that first week just get your four days guided or is it better to kind of break it up to a guide day here and Mary Alice (37m 12s): Then I think it depends on, you know, if you’re coming with a family you might not want for four days. And what’s unique about us is we can really work with each group to create a package or a week that works for that group. You know, we have our website and everything listed there, but we’re willing to create different packages for people. It’s not just black and white. Dave (37m 34s): Yeah. You could do that. And I’m just thinking as I’m kind of building this out, is that, yeah, I think it’d be cool to break it up. Let’s just say we had two weeks, you know, where you do what you said the first three days and then maybe get a guide and then maybe do a couple days doing some other stuff around there and you just, you know, over those two weeks you break it up. Right. And then, yep. So that would be pretty cool. And then talk about staying at your place. So could you stay at your place potentially for those whole two weeks or do you recommend doing some other stuff? Mary Alice (37m 60s): Well I highly recommend spending a few days on the mainland in the jungle. Okay. Either on the front end of your trip or the back end of your trip. I think I would recommend it more on the front end. The Dave (38m 12s): Front and then by the jungle mainland you mean out of Belize City? Mary Alice (38m 15s): Out of Belize City, there’s several different jungle lodges, Mayan ruins. Oh yeah. There’s cave tubing, there’s zip lining, there’s the zoo. We have the Maya Mountains that are 6,000 feet tall. There’s fresh water systems with waterfalls. I mean it’s endless. There’s so much to do and, and so I think how I would do it would be to come down and start three days at a jungle lodge, which we have recommendations for those places and, and what to do and where to go. And that immediately gets you into vacation mode. Right. And then you come out here and so you’re already in vacation mode and now it’s kind of like the top goal is is fishing. Mary Alice (38m 57s): Right? Yep. And so you’re kind of saving the best for last. Dave (39m 0s): Gotcha. Okay. So that meant now we’re adding on, this is good. So now we could say the Friday, we might still be coming down to your lodge, but maybe Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday we start with the Jungle Lodge sort of thing, right? Mary Alice (39m 11s): Yeah. And so like to, you know, it depends on on cost too. So if you’re wanting to fly over here then fly back, it’s just gonna end up costing more. So like for cost effectiveness, I would recommend flying into Belise City, going to the Jungle Lodge first, then coming over here. And the nice thing about coming over here from the mainland If you do that, is you don’t have to fly out of the international airport. We have a municipal airport in Belize City that’s about $30 cheaper each way. Oh cool. Which is kind of a, a nice option ’cause it’s just faster. Like you can certainly take the ferry but you have to wait for the certain ferry times and then it’s about an hour, hour and a half to get to the island. Mary Alice (39m 53s): It’s about $38 a person to take the ferry. So it’s all depending on what your budget is, there’s lots of different options to get here. Dave (40m 3s): If you’ve been holding off on getting a new fly rod because of the price tag, San Juan Rod works just changed the game. 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Mary Alice (41m 59s): You need a boat. Dave (41m 60s): Yeah, you need a boat. So that’d be one of your days, one of your guide days potentially you can go out and have that. Yeah. Focus on Tarpon. There’s Mary Alice (42m 6s): Opportunities on some docks in town at nighttime, but there’s so many obstructions that I just don’t think that it would be a smart idea. Yeah. If you hooked into a tarpon. I mean it’s just dock after dock with huge boats on these docks and stuff and so it’s, it’s a cool thing to see for sure. There’s definitely places I can recommend at night to go have dinner and you’re gonna see a bunch of rolling tarpon off the end of the dock. Oh nice. It’s really cool. Yeah, that’s fun. There’s actually also a tarp in Marine Preserve over on Cocker where you can hand feed Tarpon off the boat. Hmm. And they jump up and eat the fish outta your hand. It’s pretty cool. Oh my gosh. Dave (42m 44s): Cool. Mary Alice (42m 45s): Yeah, no fishing allowed over there, Dave (42m 46s): Right? No fishing. Yeah. So you got the, so the tarp in there and I think it might be cool Yeah if, if again going out there, maybe starting with the bonefish right? And that’s something you could do on that first day just cruising around your, your own, what’s your tip there? So you’re out there on the golf cart on your own solo. How do you, you know, spotting fish, getting a chance to get a a bone fish? What’s your tip there? Mary Alice (43m 5s): Well my first place to start going for bonefish is the stretch in front of the house. This whole flat in front of the house is actually called Bonefish Flats. It’s amazing how shallow it is. It really surprises a lot of people in front of the house. You, you can pretty much walk out to the reef. I don’t recommend doing that because this is a thoroughfare for boats going through. So you kind of have to be careful with that, with how far out you go. You need to have a buoy or some sort of I identifier so boats can see you. And that goes for snorkeling too in front of the house. There’s definitely great snorkeling in front of the house, but you need to take a kayak and we have these like blow up bright buoys that you put on your back and let people know where you are. Mary Alice (43m 48s): But the bone fishing and, and, and again all of this is weather dependent. Yeah. We’re talking good conditions, clear water, you can see, right. You go out front in the house, you’re gonna find bone fish for about a half mile stretch down the beach. And that’s what I recommend starting with because that also allows Chris and I to get out there with you, practice cast practice, finding fish, that kind of stuff. And then typically that first day, that’s what happens in the morning. Everybody fishes around the house in the morning. We do lunch that day here at the house typically. And I let guest aside, we’re very flexible, but then everybody comes in, has lunch and then typically after that people hop in the golf carts. Mary Alice (44m 30s): I, we drop pins on point person’s phone who’s willing to have service on you? Can you have service all the way up to Rocky Point? And so then yeah kind of hit those, those places of where we drop pins and, and what happens a lot and what I see a lot with fishermen that come down to do it yourself is you get up north and you see this water and it’s just magic. It’s every color blue you could imagine. And you just, you can’t even believe your eyes and you just wanna walk out into it. And the best way to do it is to not get into the water until you see fish. And so what we’re looking for is along the shore, the fish itself bonefish, sometimes blitzing jacks, sometimes tarpon are rolling through there. Mary Alice (45m 16s): They’re very hard to catch on the move as singles up there. And then you get to start to see pushing water for permit potentially tails. And that’s where you’re starting to identify how you should approach the water. ’cause you have an elevated view from the beach. You know, the beach kind of comes up so you can really see what’s going on out there. And and the biggest presentation for permit is gonna be tails are pushing water. That v Dave (45m 41s): Right. So that’s what you’re looking for. So once you see that, you know you’re kind of in the right area, Mary Alice (45m 46s): Then I’m getting into the water. Yeah. Then, then typically how Chris and I do it, one person stays on an elevated position, typically on the back of the golf cart and they’re directing the angler towards the fish so that that looker never takes their eyes off the fish. There was a time we were up there once, Dave, it was really awesome. We were with the writer Scott Sadel. He does a lot of fly tying books and stuff like that. Writes for Gray’s Sporting Journal. He came down and we were up north and, and we had seen bonefish right off the shore from the golf cart. He gets into the water with Chris is fishing for the bonefish. I’m standing up in the back of the cart. I see two permit coming in all in the same place. Mary Alice (46m 28s): He hasn’t moved at all. So then he gets like 20 shots of permit. They’re not spooked at all ’cause there’s no panga. Oh right. You’re standing still in the water. They’re not spooky. They’ll come swim right up to you. Dave (46m 38s): Oh, no kidding. It’s Mary Alice (46m 39s): Really interesting. When there’s no boat in play, they don’t spook. Wow. They’ll just keep coming back around. So they got to change flies like five times. And while this is happening, here comes a 50 pound tarpon down the shore. Oh man. All in one place. Wow. And so it’s pretty incredible once you start to see life. And that’s, that’s been our experience. Even if it’s not a, a fish that you’re targeting, If you start to see stingrays or other things, that’s a great sign of life. Stop there and start looking. Right. Dave (47m 8s): That’s it. Yeah. You want, you want the activity that shows you you’re in the place. ’cause it’s not just the bonefish, there’s other things going on there. Mary Alice (47m 14s): Yeah. And there is a spiritual aspect of it. You know, there’s, I can’t tell you how many times that I’ve been out there waiting the flats and I feel it like you walk into a wall and you’re like, whoa, this just feels like the place. That’s cool. And you stop and I’m telling you like nine times out of 10 here comes a school permit 20 minutes later. So listening to your instincts as a fisherman. Yep, Dave (47m 38s): That’s right. This is, like you said, it’s different than trout fishing, but, but similar in some ways as far as that, the instinctual stuff kind of knowing or, or what’s your take on that? You’ve, it sounds like you do a lot more kind of saltwater fishing now, but you know, when you compare it to the trout, Mary Alice (47m 52s): I mean I could go up to any trout stream and identify where trout are gonna be. I can’t walk up to the ocean and identify where fish are gonna be. Dave (47m 59s): Oh yeah. You can’t. Right. Mary Alice (48m 1s): It’s more of a feeling. Yeah. Dave (48m 2s): It is different. Okay. So the guide, so you would get these four days. Talk about that when you’re out on the ponga, who are the guides and how does all that work? Mary Alice (48m 12s): Sure. So we work with actually a group of brothers. We love ’em. They’re wonderful guides. And you know what I, what I really recommend a guest is let your guide do their job. A lot of people come down here with expectations and an agenda. And in my opinion, If you’re coming down here with expectations, you’ve already failed. You really have to be open-minded. You have to trust your guide. I think, you know, some days are tough. It’s, it’s the ocean, you know, you can’t really tell fish to show up. And so I’ve had a lot of experiences of, you know, people having a day of catching nothing and that’s just how it goes. And then they wanna blame the guide. Oh geez. Mary Alice (48m 51s): Yeah. And that, and that’s just, that’s a really tough conversation to have because these guides wanna catch fish just as much, if not more than you do. Yeah. And so that’s again what makes this sport so much more difficult than any other fishing. Dave (49m 7s): It is. So this is like super, the mo, one of the most difficult types of fishing you can do, Mary Alice (49m 11s): Especially for the permit. And we actually have a BA, we have a bumper sticker that we had made and we have it in the house and it just says, no wimps, Dave (49m 19s): No wi, no way Mary Alice (49m 20s): For that. And that’s really what it takes. Like you really have to harden yourself and just, of course you’re gonna remember the fish that you lost more than the fish that you’ve caught. I do. I could sit here and explain like moment by moment beautiful fish that I’ve lost. But that just makes you a better angler. You identify what you did wrong, how you could do it better next time. But nothing is guaranteed here. Nothing Dave (49m 43s): So cool. No, I love that. No wimps is perfect because, you know, we’ve heard some of those permit stories, we’ve had lots of people on that have talked about, you know, it’s this, it’s one of those cult like following things, right? People just will spend their all their money all their time trying to get that permit. And then you hear these stories about people that aren’t getting ’em right. Even some of the best. Right. Some of the best people out there that have time and money to do it. You know, it’s still a challenge, but, but there is an o opportunity. That’s a cool thing where you’re at getting a permit. You could get one like literally on your first trip. It’s possible. Mary Alice (50m 13s): We have had so many first time salt saltwater anglers catch permit. It’s amazing. And that’s a cool thing about this fishery is that there are opportunities for smaller permit. So like say five pound permit schools to get your feet wet because a lot of the bigger permit here, the bigger resident permit, they aren’t in big schools. Like say Ascension Bay, I fished in Ascension Bay and have come across schools of 5,000 permit. That’s not really how it goes here. And so when you really do find the bigger permit, they’re singles or doubles and that’s where you really have to have your skillset. And even If you do, there’s still permit. Mary Alice (50m 53s): And that’s why we love them. Everything can go right. Yep. And those black hearted fish can just turn away at the last minute and it’ll crush you. Yeah. Dave (51m 3s): And then, but you still have also bonefish, which is nice and like you said, right. Yeah. Which is are known to be a little bit easier to catch, I guess. And then, yeah, then Tarpon, well this is cool. Well, let’s kind of start to take it outta here today. We’ve got a couple, I’ve got a few more questions for you here, but this is gonna be our wet fly swing Pro. Shout out. We’ve, we’ve launched a new kind of membership platform, which has been really cool for some of our members in there. And it’s just a way to basically connect everybody in there who’s kind of a paid member to more of these great trips. So I’m gonna give a shout out to one of our members, Mike, Mike Willis, who’s in there. He is. We’ve been chatting about, he’s gonna be on a trip coming up with us. And you know, we’re talking about kind of what’s next. Dave (51m 43s): And so first wanna give a big shout out to Mike and Wily Swing Pro. But on that line, so when you’re, again talking to somebody, let’s just start there. What is your, what’s your first question? If somebody picks up the phone and they’re like, oh man, I’ve heard about your place. This sounds great. What, what do you ask them? What’s the first thing? Mary Alice (52m 0s): What are you looking for for your trip? Dave (52m 2s): There you go. And then the question could be, well I just want to catch, I haven’t been saltwater fishing. I’d love to catch something. Mary Alice (52m 9s): Great. We can certainly help you with that. This is what I would recommend doing. You know, I think you really have to gauge how diehard of a fisherman they are. First. You know, there’s plenty of people that wanna come and be on a panga. That was Chris and I, we would, we would come down for two weeks and we would fish 12 days on a panga only for permit. And 11 of those days we would catch nothing. And on the 12th day we’d catch a permit. There Dave (52m 34s): You go. So you were the diehard, you, you were and yeah. You guys are obviously the diehards. You were going for it. Mary Alice (52m 39s): Yep. And that’s, I mean, it was happening two, three times a year and we’re like, oh my gosh, we’re spending all this money just to catch permit. And you know, the time that we bought the Iana house was just the perfect time and it worked out great. And then the pandemic hit and you know, when we first got the place, the intention was not for it to be a watch. Oh it was, it, it was really to be an Airbnb for fishermen to come down. Right. And kind of do it themselves. ’cause that’s what we did when we first came down here. Here. Yeah. We got a cheap Airbnb, not even on the water. We didn’t even care and got our own food and did our own thing and fished. And what we came to find was not many people wanted that. They wanted the whole package put together. Mary Alice (53m 21s): And, and honestly, we’re about 4.2 miles north from town, so it’s quite laborious to have to worry about getting food. So to have a package where food’s included lunch or breakfast, lunch apps, dinner, dessert, two drinks a day, it makes it easier. And also the more the people are here at the house, the more they don’t wanna leave the house. Yeah. They go to town and they’re like, I’d rather just be back at the house. It’s really quiet and tranquil. We’re off the main road. Dave (53m 48s): I could see that. Yeah. So that’s it. So you have the house and you’re, you’re doing all the, the food, right? For the majority. You’re doing the bulk of that, Mary Alice (53m 55s): Correct? Yeah. Glenda and myself are your cooks for the week. Yeah. Dave (54m 1s): Wow. And, and so what does, what does that look like? Is that a challenge? Is that something that you really enjoy? What, what are the meals? You know, because I know some people, like for me, If it was me, I would be, it would be painful for me to try to cook a bunch of meals for people. Right. But how’s it for you? Mary Alice (54m 16s): Yeah, it’s totally, well, I love cooking. It can get, you know, a little crazy. But that’s just the job. And it’s doing something that I love. And I love to cook people good food. And I love to do something that’s different. You’re not gonna get a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. You’re gonna get something different, you know, as not many sandwiches every day. And you know, Glenda is Belizean and makes just the most amazing belizean authentic cuisine. And I’ll tell you, we have had several guests say that the highlight of their trip was the food. Dave (54m 47s): Oh, there you go. Mary Alice (54m 48s): So we, we use all local ingredients and make everything fresh. And you’re gonna get better food here than going out. Yeah. You will. I promise you that. You will. Dave (54m 58s): Okay. Now that’s another huge bonus. So, so we’ve got the food covered, we’ve kind of got our, our dates and of course we’re focusing on this. And you know, there’s lots of different times of the year. Mary Alice (55m 8s): The timing is, is tough because a lot of people wanna come down in the winter. I don’t, I’m not trying to tell you to not come in the winter, but be prepared for some higher winds, you know? And so as a new saltwater angler, that’s quite intimidating for everybody. And they’re like, is this the wind that we’re gonna have all week? And I’m like, yep. Luckily our guides are very experienced in getting you placed with the wind at your back and even if you’re doing it yourself. So the winds are generally coming from the east. If you’re on the reef side fishing and the wind’s coming right at you and you start to identify fish again, it’s all very shallow. You can wade out far enough to then cast back towards the shore and have the wind at your back. Mary Alice (55m 54s): And then, then again, that also depends on sun. So if that’s the way you wanna do it, you wanna get out there, you know, between 10 and one before the sun is at your back. And then, then you’ll have glare. Gotcha. Dave (56m 5s): Okay. Yeah, there’s all that. And that’s all stuff that we can figure out as we’re, that’s Mary Alice (56m 8s): All stuff we talk about. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Dave (56m 11s): What is your, If you were going back, you know, look at the first time you were there in Belize, what would be your advice now, knowing what, you know, what, what would you be telling yourself back then when you first got there? Mary Alice (56m 21s): That’s a tough question. Yeah. Dave (56m 23s): ’cause you were, did you go with Chris when you got there the first time? Yeah. Did, yeah. You guys, that was your, and you were, you were brand new, like your first saltwater trip and Chris had some experience at that time. Mary Alice (56m 32s): No, it, I, I had fished for many years up in Ascension Bay, which is way harder. The guides are way more intense. Oh, Dave (56m 39s): Okay. So you already had experience with saltwater before this, correct. Mary Alice (56m 43s): Yeah. So coming down here, the guides are more laid back. You’re still gonna get some of the guides that you know, have ego. Right. And that’s just the game. And you’re gonna get that anywhere. I guess the first trip, what we didn’t really realize when we were trying to do it ourselves is the road north. It gets a little confusing. Like you feel like you’re in the wrong place and you shouldn’t be there. And we turned around and we shouldn’t have turned around. And I wish that I would’ve known that you keep going. ’cause that’s really where it’s just that endless access, minimal development. Oh, it’s where it’s like wilderness. Dave (57m 21s): Oh this is, and then where is it? This is up towards like Mary Alice (57m 24s): Tranquility Bay. Dave (57m 25s): Tranquility Bay, okay. Mary Alice (57m 26s): Yeah. But other than that, I mean like, I can’t express how easy it is to get here. Everybody speaks English, everybody accepts us money. The direct flight game, I mean there’s direct flights out of Charlotte, Georgia, Atlanta, Miami, Houston, Dallas, Denver, sometimes Minneapolis, LA JFK. So like that covers so many places in the country for a direct flight to get here. And then it’s a 14 minute flight to the island and you’re here. That’s crazy. And I, a lot of people don’t wanna spend the money on the flight. They’re like, oh, I would rather do the ferry, take the flight. It is the most beauti you get to fly over the flats that you’re gonna fish. Oh nice. Mary Alice (58m 5s): It’s incredible. It’s beautiful. Dave (58m 8s): Right, right, right. Now this is all, this is all coming together. I think it sounds like, again, like a lot of these things you would, I would love to have a month there. You know, if, if we can make it work to, Mary Alice (58m 17s): That’s, I mean that’s honestly the longer the better because that’s what saltwater fishing is. Dave (58m 21s): Yeah, it is. You gotta put your time in. Yeah. This is good. Okay. So yeah, anything else we wanna, before we head outta here, leave people with on kind of, you know, the trip, we talked about one, you know, kind of period. But anything else we’re, we’ve been missing today? Mary Alice (58m 34s): I mean, I think it’s just important to note that If you come down here, you’re gonna be with two people, Chris and I that have experienced everything you’re gonna experience. So all of your frustrations or high points, everything’s validated. I just had a guy down here, oh my gosh. He had this excellent shot at a huge permit and that morning at breakfast, ’cause I knew they were going out early to, to go for Tarpon. So I was talking to him about the tarpon set while he was eating breakfast. And then he goes out for the day and there’s this big permit on the, the left side of the boat coming in and he hooks it and then he stripped it like a tarpon. Oh. And I like my, I felt exactly what he felt, God, because it’s happened to me. Mary Alice (59m 18s): I’ve done the same thing and Chris and I have made all the mistakes that you’re going to make. We’ve had the issues with guides, we’ve had guides be tough to us on the boat, all those things. And so I think creating an environment where guests can come back and really feel supported and heard. And even when ge, I mean we’ve had guides step completely out of line and those guides are no longer with us. And, and we hold a line of respect, period. We are here to treat each other with respect no matter what. And If you can’t do that, then you’re not gonna be part of our team. Love that. And I think that that can be hard to find in places. We had a tough experience in Mexico with guides and the owner sided with the guides and then nobody talked to us after that. Mary Alice (1h 0m 2s): Geez. And it felt horrible. It broke our hearts. Like it really was one of the most heartbreaking experiences. That’s a bummer. So to be able to have a place that is safe and everybody says, man, this just feels like home. And that’s our goal. We want you to feel safe and comfortable here. Even if you’re frustrated and you had a hard day, let’s talk about it because I know how you feel. Dave (1h 0m 22s): Yeah. God, that’s so good. I love that. You mentioned a couple times on, on the set. So what is the difference between the tarpon set and the, the permit or the bonefish set? Yeah. Mary Alice (1h 0m 32s): Delicacy and violence. Dave (1h 0m 34s): Yeah. Roy, I saw when a, when you got a permit, If you talk, that’s just a total difference. Mary Alice (1h 0m 39s): It’s a really soft, so you, you feel something on the fly and it’s a soft pull back and lift up your rod very slowly. Dave (1h 0m 47s): So a soft pullback, a soft strip back, Mary Alice (1h 0m 49s): Really soft. And you know, personally, I’m one to never really lift my rod all the way. A lot of times when I’m fighting, fighting fish, my rod tips in the water at the opposite way that that fish is swimming. Because in my experience, you can land that fish faster. They’re not gonna run as far guys will tell you differently. They’ll say lift your rod all the way up. You know, I am a little bit more aggressive in my fighting of a fish. The tough thing with permit, and I see this happen often and this goes against like everything that we know about catching fish. If you hook into a big permit, drop your line, just drop it. Don’t have any tension on that line. Mary Alice (1h 1m 29s): Drop it, let that fish run. Huh. Until your line gets tight. Because If you add any additional tension, that fly’s gonna pop out of the mouth. Oh Dave (1h 1m 37s): Wow. Mary Alice (1h 1m 38s): And it’s a really weird thing to learn and do. Dave (1h 1m 41s): So If you feel, If you feel the permit, it, it hits, it’s a big permit. You do the soft strip set to make sure it’s on and then let it loose. Mary Alice (1h 1m 49s): Yep. Let it run. Dave (1h 1m 50s): Gotcha. Wow. Mary Alice (1h 1m 51s): Yep. Unless it’s running right at you. Dave (1h 1m 53s): Right. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, this is exciting. Mary Alice (1h 1m 57s): Yeah. That’s a goes against all instincts. Dave (1h 1m 60s): What are the chances, and I, I know this is fishing, but you, we plan a trip in this summertime. What are the chances that, you know, let’s just say the conditions are pretty decent, that you can get all three species on on one trip? Mary Alice (1h 2m 12s): It’s rare. Dave (1h 2m 13s): Yeah. That’s the, that’s the grand slam, right? Mary Alice (1h 2m 16s): The grand slam would be in a day. Yeah. Dave (1h 2m 18s): Oh, it’s a day. Well let’s, let’s, yeah, not a day. I just say a trip. Mary Alice (1h 2m 21s): A trip slam. Let’s say a trip slam. Yeah. It’s definitely doable. I think especially in the summer months. Summer meaning July, August, September, sometimes October. But October is when the waters are the hottest and when we’re seeing the most storms. So it’s just kind of a hit or a miss, you know? Yeah, gotcha. Even just all of June. June is typically the sargassum’s gone, the water’s clear. That is none of us. June has been at all. Dave (1h 2m 49s): And what is the, the sargassum that’s a plant. What is, what is Sargassum? Mary Alice (1h 2m 53s): The sargassum seaweed. It’s that floating seaweed. So it has these kind of like floating beads on it that it can survive just independently on top of the water. Oh wow. And what’s caused it to kind of go into hyper bloom more recently, let’s say in the past decade has been runoff from typically Brazil and the United States. Oh. From fertilizers and things like that. And it’s only gonna get worse. And that’s what we’re seeing got. And so unfortunately Belize is still a third world country. They really struggle with infrastructure. They have plans to mitigate sargassum. Mary Alice (1h 3m 33s): Those plans don’t come to fruition. And so when it is sargassum season, that’s when it is really nice to get out on a ponga. ’cause you avoid it completely. You go on the leeward side of the island and there is no sargassum. Oh, Dave (1h 3m 47s): Okay. And Sargassum, is that typically in the springtime? Mary Alice (1h 3m 49s): It starts really February through June. Gotcha. Dave (1h 3m 53s): And that’s the time we, right now as we’re talking, it’s kind of June, right? We’re almost come up to July. Mary Alice (1h 3m 58s): Yeah. It’s not, we don’t have any fresh sargassum right now, but because it was such a heavy season, the piles of it up on the beach are, are pretty tremendous. Yeah. Dave (1h 4m 8s): God, this is great. Well, I feel like, again, these conversations are hard to leave because I, I wanna, and I haven’t been there yet, you know, in all transparency, this is gonna the Mary Alice (1h 4m 17s): I hope one day. Dave (1h 4m 17s): I know. Yeah. I hope, I hope one day soon I can get down there. ’cause I think this would be really cool. Yeah. But, but I think we can leave it there, Mary Alice, and we can send everybody out to iguana house belize.com or they can find you on Instagram as well. And yeah, I think this is really exciting. I, I think what you have going is unique and, and I’m excited to follow you and, and hopefully, like we said, get down there soon. Thanks for all your time today. Mary Alice (1h 4m 39s): Thanks Dave. It was great chatting with you. Dave (1h 4m 43s): All right, there you go. If you want to connect with Mary House, go to iguana house belize.com right now and you can follow along on their adventures. The Fishing and everything going on at Amber Geese key. If you’re interested in a trip, let me know. I’d love to connect with you and see if we can put something together out there by get enough people with interest in this trip. Then we definitely will be putting something together here. We just launched our Belize giveaway. If you haven’t yet, you go to wetly swing.com/giveaway. Check in right now, get that rolling and you will get updated soon on whether you win this trip to Belize. If you haven’t yet and you’re near the show, please click that subscribe button. This is the best way to get your next episode delivered to the inbox. Dave (1h 5m 25s): And I wanna thank you today. Hope you’re having a great night. Hope you’re having a great morning or great afternoon wherever you are in the world and I look forward to talking to you on that next episode. We’ll see you then. Outro (1h 5m 37s): Thanks for listening to the Wet Fly, swing Fly fishing show. For notes and links from this episode, visit wet fly swing.com.